Harrison Bergeron said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

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The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

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A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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sombear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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sombear said:

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In the Trump era, it really doesn't matter. The vast majority of MAGA will defend him. Heck, Trump knew every letter of this and more and still nominated him for freaking AG.

Character matters or it doesn't.

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since the news came out, I've yet to see anyone defend him. Have you?

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Half the posters on here and virtually every MAGA influencer is either outright defending him, questioning the evidence, or playing whataboutism.

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it's pointing out hypocrisy.

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Sombear does not like it when you point out hypocrisy on the Left

I forget if he is still claiming on here to be a "principled conservative" or not

I get these Liz Cheney-Republican types confused all the time since they are indistinguishable from Clinton-Democrats

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Don't agree with this. Sombear is one of the most consistent and principled members of this board.

He's correct that there is a double standard here. The same posters who decried Biden as a pedophile based on statements made in an alleged stolen diary are the posters questioning the evidence against Gaetz (when there is a mountain of evidence against Gaetz by comparison). I am no criminal lawyer, but I can say with certainty that the amount of sworn deposition testimony against him would be damning in any civil trial.

Gaetz is a POS. I may agree with a number of the things he believes, politically, but that doesn't change the fact he's a POS. Does it mean he committed a crime? Apparently not, but he's still a scumbag of the tallest order.

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Alleged stolen diary? The one the FBI raided journalists to recover? The one Ashley admitted she left behind? The one we have photographs of the entry in question? That's a lot more than merely alleged.

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Just so I am clear, you are convinced that is sufficient evidence to prove that Biden is a pedophile, but the scores of witnesses and deposition testimony that say Gaetz was using drugs, having sex with underage girls and paying off women for sex is not very credible?

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I keep hearing about all the people who said they witnessed him having sex with under age girls but then only one 17 year old gets mentioned specifically and none of the accusers are listed. The accusations sound exactly the same as those levied by democrats every time the try to character assassinate a Republican. The accusations against Biden were levied BY HIS OWN DAUGHTER. That added to the hours of footage we all witnessed of Biden groping and sniffing every kid he could get his hands on and stories of getting kids to rub his legs when he was a lifeguard and it's not hard to believe Joe is a child predator. You want evidence of a partisan hack, find me someone who starts calling evidence that was verified years ago "alleged". Next you'll claim hunters laptop is merely alleged to exist.

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Like I said, tell me you're a partisan hack without telling me you're a partisan hack. When you feel a diary that doesn't actually accuse Biden of being a pedophile is credible evidence of pedophilia but numerous sworn witnesses who witnessed Gaetz engaging in such behavior isn't, then you might be a partisan hack.

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Yeah, I'm sure the inappropriate showers with her father were really just innocent fun that she got twisted in her memory as she tried to recover from a drug problem and wrote about in her recovery diary. A partisan hack would look at photographic evidence and still claim it's merely alleged to exist. Gaetz MIGHT be guilty of everything alleged, but for some reason there hasn't been enough evidence to bring forth charges from anyone. But you go on ignoring that in order to convict him for the sake of your argument. That's not partisan hack behavior at all...

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So, you are ready to declare Biden a pedophile based on statements by his daughter with a drug problem in her diary but are defending Gaetz against numerous witnesses who said he they saw him having sex with a 17 year old and taking drugs (among other evidence) and paying "girlfriends" tens of thousands of dollars for sex, conduct which he essentially admitted. That, my friend, is indeed a partisan hack.

Everyone on this board knows that if Gaetz were a Dem, you'd be calling for him to be prosecuted - just like Biden. Take your blinders off and call bad behavior for what it is. It shouldn't matter whether they are an R or D.

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The person making the accusation matters and who they are making that accusation to matters. One is the daughter of the accused writing in her personal diary that was meant for her eyes only. The other is unverified claims being used by political opponents that couldn't be verified by a department of justice investigation. Your apples will never be oranges. But again, as I have said repeatedly, Gaetz COULD BE guilty of all these crimes, the problem is his accusers haven't proven anything. The evidence was so weak the DOJ under Biden dropped the investigation. Now the accusations are brought back out to stop his nomination and we have clowns pretending that means he was found guilty of said accusations. That's not how things work.

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So, in your mind, multiple witnesses testifying under oath they saw Gaetz having sex and using drugs is much less credible than the evidence of Biden's pedophilia based on his daughter saying that she was taking "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate)" at an unknown age in her diary? That's enough for you to say Biden is a pedophile, but multiple people testifying under oath regarding Gaetz isn't enough to suggest he did something, at the very least, that was inappropriate, if not borderline illegal?

LOL. You are certainly right that it's an apples to oranges comparison. There is a whole lot more evidence of Gaetz doing what he has been accused of than Biden being a pedophile.

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Yes, the personal diary of Ashley Biden talking about inappropriate showers with her father while also talking about being a hypersexualized child etc is far more damning than witnesses put forth by political opponents.

I'm sure you believe Justice Kavanaugh is a serial rapist, too, right? After all, a witness under oath swore he was a serial rapist so it MUST be true. No witness has ever been found to be without credibility, right?
Previously mentioned context clues added below.

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Can't believe that your statements are so ridiculous they're making me defend Biden. A few things...

1) We have no idea from her statement when and in what circumstances those alleged showers occurred, if at all. While I don't disagree that showering with your children in normal circumstances is creepy, that is not evidence that Biden is a pedophile, or that he sexually molested or assaulted his daughter. As for being hypersexualized, we once again have no context to understand what that means. Does it mean she was allowed to wear inappropriate things? Or does it mean something more sinister, such as someone in the household was grooming her? No clue, because we have no context. Yet that has not prevented you from declaring Biden a pedo. Of course, we all know that if these accusations had been leveled at Trump, you'd be defending him.

2) What evidence do you have that the numerous witnesses who testified under oath against Gaetz were "put forth by political opponents"? This was a bi-partisan committee, just FYI. What evidence do you have the witnesses had an axe to grind? Gaetz already admitted to paying numerous women he was having sex with.

Anyone who believes that the vague statements in Ashley Biden's diary are more damning than numerous witnesses who testified against Gaetz under oath is a dumb @ss.

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The DOJ couldn't do anything to Gaetz with all that testimony you've swallowed as undeniable fact. Political opponents aren't necessarily members of the opposite party. You WANT their testimony to be fact, that is clear. But your desires and what actually is don't seem to be matching up. If Matt is guilty of these crimes he needs to be prosecuted, but for some reason there isn't enough evidence for that. Does that stop you or make you take a beat to consider that maybe he is being railroaded? Nope. Personally I hope you're wrong because I don't want some predator getting investigated by the Department of Justice and still getting away with his crimes.

We have witnessed Biden groping and sniffing kids, saying inappropriate things to them and even falling off his bike when he saw a little girl and rode straight to her. In addition to Biden's own words and actions, his daughter was driven to drug abuse and in her recovery she mentioned inappropriate showers with Joe while she mentioned being a hypersexualized child and listed other behaviors that went along with it. Her words, written to herself and no one else. At this point, only a dumbass would dismiss that as merely an "alleged diary".

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A few things...

1) Never said Gaetz committed a crime. Doesn't mean the things he's been accused of are not accurate. The prosecutor's decision to prosecute or not prosecute is based on numerous factors. Thousands of crimes go unprosecuted each and every day. There is a notorious crime in my neck of the woods involving a Catholic priest who the DA has strong evidence committed sexual crimes against children. Do I think he's absolutely guilty of the crimes? Yes, considering I am good friends with one of his victims. But the case is never going to get prosecuted, for reasons I will not get into here.

2) Biden touching kids or sniffing their hair, while creepy, is not sexual assault, nor definitive evidence he is a pedo. Nor is Biden's daughter's comments evidence he is a pedo. Is he actually a pedo? Who knows? Might be. But the evidence you have presented thus far certainly doesn't prove same.

The difference between us is I have reached no conclusion on either Biden or Gaetz committing a crime, like you have. While I think the evidence is pretty overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that Gaetz is a scumbag based on his admitted conduct, I've reached no conclusion he committed a crime. You on the other hand believe Biden is a pedo who should be prosecuted based on the flimsy evidence in his daughter's diary. No doubt, if Biden were a Republican, you would be singing a different tune, biased partisan hack that you are.

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Unless Ashley pressed charges there is no way to prosecute Biden, and wouldn't the statute of limitation be up anyway? You're in denial about Biden, but thankfully it's a non-issue now that he has been taken out by his own party. I give you credit for bringing yourself to admit the diary is real. But Biden can't be convicted if there is no investigation. Gaetz was investigated. No charges could be brought. At least one of the witnesses has been revealed as a liar. Accusing republicans of sex crimes is the Democrat playbook, chapter 1. It's happened over and over and over. I notice you didn't address the fact that Kavanaugh also had a witness testify under oath against him, but that's fine, that doesn't reveal anything other than an acknowledgment that political operatives will find people to lie under oath if they think they can take out a political opponent. That's what this looks like to me, one more in a long line of character assassination attempts by the swamp. But as I have said, repeatedly, Gaetz might be guilty of all those things he accused of doing, I don't know. Somehow you've twisted that into thinking I have an unwavering belief in his innocence.

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You need to read closer. I never foreclosed the possibility the diary is real. What I said is the statements therein don't prove anything, other than the Bidens may be a creepy family. They are certainly not evidence that Joe Biden is a pedo. He could be, certainly, but the diary in no way proves he is, contrary to your specious assertions.

I am not sure where you came up with the idea that Ashley would have to press charges for Biden to be prosecuted. That is simply erroneous. The police can act on their own accord if they feel they have sufficient evidence of a crime. They do it in the case of domestic violence all the time. And of course, no charges were ever brought.

With respect to Gaetz, if it was a he said, she said situation, and there was only one witness - the accuser - whose story was contradicted and could not be corroborated as there was in the Kavanaugh case, you might have a legitimate point. But in the case of Gaetz, there were multiple witnesses who testified about witnessing him having sex and doing drugs. There were also financial records that appeared to indicate payment for drugs and sex, the latter of which he essential admitted (paying "girlfriends"). So comparing his situation to Kavanaugh's is apples to bowling balls.

A bipartisan committee, with subpoena power, believed the evidence indicated illicit conduct on the part of Gaetz had been committed. But if you want to believe multiple people lied, and this was all one big conspiracy, so be it.

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If we start going down the path of listing all the things Joe should have been charged with we would be here for days. Somehow the lack of charges against Biden are used as a defense of the charges of pedophile but the lack of charges against Gaetz means nothing . Seems very convenient for your argument. "It could mean something else" is not a defense of what was explicitly written by Ashley and the context around the statement. Who would be in position to bring the hammer down on Joe for the crime at this point? Is there a statute of limitations? These are legitimate questions so don't be offended by me asking you.

Matt being seen doing drugs and having sex are definitely bad but not crimes in and of themselves. If he had sex with a minor, transported her across state lines(trafficked) and paid her then he would have been prosecuted. At this point, he has been charged with nothing. But that somehow opens the door to ALL accusations being repeated as fact. You want to act like it was such an open and shut case but not one charge was able to be prosecuted. Gaetz is hardly as protected from prosecution as Biden seems to have been for all these decades, but as I said, a daughter's testimony holds far more weight than that of strangers' gathered by others with ulterior motives, some of whom have been exposed for giving false testimony.


"There is a reason they did this to me in a Christmas Eve-Eve report and not in a courtroom of any kind where I could present evidence and challenge witnesses," Gaetz wrote on X, contending that many of the claims in the report were inaccurate. He has repeatedly denied having sex with anyone under 18 and said money he transferred to women was to compensate girlfriends or ex-girlfriends for their travel.

Chris Dorworth, the former Florida state representative at whose home Gaetz allegedly had sex with the 17-year-old, denounced the report and said its release was an act of retaliation against Gaetz for helping to bring down former Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

"This is clearly a congressional hit job. It is painfully clear these women are lying," Dorworth wrote on X. "This is a shakedown that caught fire because Matt kicked Kevin McCarthy out of his job. This DID NOT HAPPEN. Every thing they said about me being there and witnessing any of it is a lie."

Zero charges. Your prosecution is lacking.

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Again, if I were making the allegation he needed to be charged with a crime, you might have a point. But I made no such allegation. You are the poster who keeps bringing that up.

I began this thread by stating Gaetz is a Grade A scumbag based on the substantial evidence included in the report. I of course realize Gaetz is going to attempt to spin the multiple witnesses' testimony and evidence of payments (tens of thousands for mere travel expenses? I have some ocean front property in AZ if you believe that one). And just FYI, in most states, using drugs remains a crime.

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I rolled my eyes at the "travel expenses" excuse, too. My problem is that allegations were made, a DOJ investigation commenced and did not find enough for him to be charged and no local authorities brought any charges. That somehow makes it acceptable for an American citizen to be called guilty of crimes he was never even charged with by his political opponents, the media and anyone else who wants to pile on. That's not how our justice system works. Defend Biden all you want but he was never investigated by any authority over his daughter's claims.

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DOJ investigation and the ethics investigation are two different things. I think the DOJ was looking at sex trafficking allegations, and didn't find enough evidence to charge Gaetz. The ethics investigation found multiple instances of unethical conduct corroborated by eye witness testimony and documents.

Again, I have no clue if Gaetz committed a crime. I just think the guy is slimy.

Mothra said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

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The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

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A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

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The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Wangchung said:

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Mothra said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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sombear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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sombear said:

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In the Trump era, it really doesn't matter. The vast majority of MAGA will defend him. Heck, Trump knew every letter of this and more and still nominated him for freaking AG.

Character matters or it doesn't.

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since the news came out, I've yet to see anyone defend him. Have you?

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Half the posters on here and virtually every MAGA influencer is either outright defending him, questioning the evidence, or playing whataboutism.

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it's pointing out hypocrisy.

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Sombear does not like it when you point out hypocrisy on the Left

I forget if he is still claiming on here to be a "principled conservative" or not

I get these Liz Cheney-Republican types confused all the time since they are indistinguishable from Clinton-Democrats

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Don't agree with this. Sombear is one of the most consistent and principled members of this board.

He's correct that there is a double standard here. The same posters who decried Biden as a pedophile based on statements made in an alleged stolen diary are the posters questioning the evidence against Gaetz (when there is a mountain of evidence against Gaetz by comparison). I am no criminal lawyer, but I can say with certainty that the amount of sworn deposition testimony against him would be damning in any civil trial.

Gaetz is a POS. I may agree with a number of the things he believes, politically, but that doesn't change the fact he's a POS. Does it mean he committed a crime? Apparently not, but he's still a scumbag of the tallest order.

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Alleged stolen diary? The one the FBI raided journalists to recover? The one Ashley admitted she left behind? The one we have photographs of the entry in question? That's a lot more than merely alleged.

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Just so I am clear, you are convinced that is sufficient evidence to prove that Biden is a pedophile, but the scores of witnesses and deposition testimony that say Gaetz was using drugs, having sex with underage girls and paying off women for sex is not very credible?

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I keep hearing about all the people who said they witnessed him having sex with under age girls but then only one 17 year old gets mentioned specifically and none of the accusers are listed. The accusations sound exactly the same as those levied by democrats every time the try to character assassinate a Republican. The accusations against Biden were levied BY HIS OWN DAUGHTER. That added to the hours of footage we all witnessed of Biden groping and sniffing every kid he could get his hands on and stories of getting kids to rub his legs when he was a lifeguard and it's not hard to believe Joe is a child predator. You want evidence of a partisan hack, find me someone who starts calling evidence that was verified years ago "alleged". Next you'll claim hunters laptop is merely alleged to exist.

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Like I said, tell me you're a partisan hack without telling me you're a partisan hack. When you feel a diary that doesn't actually accuse Biden of being a pedophile is credible evidence of pedophilia but numerous sworn witnesses who witnessed Gaetz engaging in such behavior isn't, then you might be a partisan hack.

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Yeah, I'm sure the inappropriate showers with her father were really just innocent fun that she got twisted in her memory as she tried to recover from a drug problem and wrote about in her recovery diary. A partisan hack would look at photographic evidence and still claim it's merely alleged to exist. Gaetz MIGHT be guilty of everything alleged, but for some reason there hasn't been enough evidence to bring forth charges from anyone. But you go on ignoring that in order to convict him for the sake of your argument. That's not partisan hack behavior at all...

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So, you are ready to declare Biden a pedophile based on statements by his daughter with a drug problem in her diary but are defending Gaetz against numerous witnesses who said he they saw him having sex with a 17 year old and taking drugs (among other evidence) and paying "girlfriends" tens of thousands of dollars for sex, conduct which he essentially admitted. That, my friend, is indeed a partisan hack.

Everyone on this board knows that if Gaetz were a Dem, you'd be calling for him to be prosecuted - just like Biden. Take your blinders off and call bad behavior for what it is. It shouldn't matter whether they are an R or D.

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The person making the accusation matters and who they are making that accusation to matters. One is the daughter of the accused writing in her personal diary that was meant for her eyes only. The other is unverified claims being used by political opponents that couldn't be verified by a department of justice investigation. Your apples will never be oranges. But again, as I have said repeatedly, Gaetz COULD BE guilty of all these crimes, the problem is his accusers haven't proven anything. The evidence was so weak the DOJ under Biden dropped the investigation. Now the accusations are brought back out to stop his nomination and we have clowns pretending that means he was found guilty of said accusations. That's not how things work.

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So, in your mind, multiple witnesses testifying under oath they saw Gaetz having sex and using drugs is much less credible than the evidence of Biden's pedophilia based on his daughter saying that she was taking "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate)" at an unknown age in her diary? That's enough for you to say Biden is a pedophile, but multiple people testifying under oath regarding Gaetz isn't enough to suggest he did something, at the very least, that was inappropriate, if not borderline illegal?

LOL. You are certainly right that it's an apples to oranges comparison. There is a whole lot more evidence of Gaetz doing what he has been accused of than Biden being a pedophile.

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Yes, the personal diary of Ashley Biden talking about inappropriate showers with her father while also talking about being a hypersexualized child etc is far more damning than witnesses put forth by political opponents.

I'm sure you believe Justice Kavanaugh is a serial rapist, too, right? After all, a witness under oath swore he was a serial rapist so it MUST be true. No witness has ever been found to be without credibility, right?
Previously mentioned context clues added below.

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Can't believe that your statements are so ridiculous they're making me defend Biden. A few things...

1) We have no idea from her statement when and in what circumstances those alleged showers occurred, if at all. While I don't disagree that showering with your children in normal circumstances is creepy, that is not evidence that Biden is a pedophile, or that he sexually molested or assaulted his daughter. As for being hypersexualized, we once again have no context to understand what that means. Does it mean she was allowed to wear inappropriate things? Or does it mean something more sinister, such as someone in the household was grooming her? No clue, because we have no context. Yet that has not prevented you from declaring Biden a pedo. Of course, we all know that if these accusations had been leveled at Trump, you'd be defending him.

2) What evidence do you have that the numerous witnesses who testified under oath against Gaetz were "put forth by political opponents"? This was a bi-partisan committee, just FYI. What evidence do you have the witnesses had an axe to grind? Gaetz already admitted to paying numerous women he was having sex with.

Anyone who believes that the vague statements in Ashley Biden's diary are more damning than numerous witnesses who testified against Gaetz under oath is a dumb @ss.

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The DOJ couldn't do anything to Gaetz with all that testimony you've swallowed as undeniable fact. Political opponents aren't necessarily members of the opposite party. You WANT their testimony to be fact, that is clear. But your desires and what actually is don't seem to be matching up. If Matt is guilty of these crimes he needs to be prosecuted, but for some reason there isn't enough evidence for that. Does that stop you or make you take a beat to consider that maybe he is being railroaded? Nope. Personally I hope you're wrong because I don't want some predator getting investigated by the Department of Justice and still getting away with his crimes.

We have witnessed Biden groping and sniffing kids, saying inappropriate things to them and even falling off his bike when he saw a little girl and rode straight to her. In addition to Biden's own words and actions, his daughter was driven to drug abuse and in her recovery she mentioned inappropriate showers with Joe while she mentioned being a hypersexualized child and listed other behaviors that went along with it. Her words, written to herself and no one else. At this point, only a dumbass would dismiss that as merely an "alleged diary".

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A few things...

1) Never said Gaetz committed a crime. Doesn't mean the things he's been accused of are not accurate. The prosecutor's decision to prosecute or not prosecute is based on numerous factors. Thousands of crimes go unprosecuted each and every day. There is a notorious crime in my neck of the woods involving a Catholic priest who the DA has strong evidence committed sexual crimes against children. Do I think he's absolutely guilty of the crimes? Yes, considering I am good friends with one of his victims. But the case is never going to get prosecuted, for reasons I will not get into here.

2) Biden touching kids or sniffing their hair, while creepy, is not sexual assault, nor definitive evidence he is a pedo. Nor is Biden's daughter's comments evidence he is a pedo. Is he actually a pedo? Who knows? Might be. But the evidence you have presented thus far certainly doesn't prove same.

The difference between us is I have reached no conclusion on either Biden or Gaetz committing a crime, like you have. While I think the evidence is pretty overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that Gaetz is a scumbag based on his admitted conduct, I've reached no conclusion he committed a crime. You on the other hand believe Biden is a pedo who should be prosecuted based on the flimsy evidence in his daughter's diary. No doubt, if Biden were a Republican, you would be singing a different tune, biased partisan hack that you are.

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Unless Ashley pressed charges there is no way to prosecute Biden, and wouldn't the statute of limitation be up anyway? You're in denial about Biden, but thankfully it's a non-issue now that he has been taken out by his own party. I give you credit for bringing yourself to admit the diary is real. But Biden can't be convicted if there is no investigation. Gaetz was investigated. No charges could be brought. At least one of the witnesses has been revealed as a liar. Accusing republicans of sex crimes is the Democrat playbook, chapter 1. It's happened over and over and over. I notice you didn't address the fact that Kavanaugh also had a witness testify under oath against him, but that's fine, that doesn't reveal anything other than an acknowledgment that political operatives will find people to lie under oath if they think they can take out a political opponent. That's what this looks like to me, one more in a long line of character assassination attempts by the swamp. But as I have said, repeatedly, Gaetz might be guilty of all those things he accused of doing, I don't know. Somehow you've twisted that into thinking I have an unwavering belief in his innocence.

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You need to read closer. I never foreclosed the possibility the diary is real. What I said is the statements therein don't prove anything, other than the Bidens may be a creepy family. They are certainly not evidence that Joe Biden is a pedo. He could be, certainly, but the diary in no way proves he is, contrary to your specious assertions.

I am not sure where you came up with the idea that Ashley would have to press charges for Biden to be prosecuted. That is simply erroneous. The police can act on their own accord if they feel they have sufficient evidence of a crime. They do it in the case of domestic violence all the time. And of course, no charges were ever brought.

With respect to Gaetz, if it was a he said, she said situation, and there was only one witness - the accuser - whose story was contradicted and could not be corroborated as there was in the Kavanaugh case, you might have a legitimate point. But in the case of Gaetz, there were multiple witnesses who testified about witnessing him having sex and doing drugs. There were also financial records that appeared to indicate payment for drugs and sex, the latter of which he essential admitted (paying "girlfriends"). So comparing his situation to Kavanaugh's is apples to bowling balls.

A bipartisan committee, with subpoena power, believed the evidence indicated illicit conduct on the part of Gaetz had been committed. But if you want to believe multiple people lied, and this was all one big conspiracy, so be it.

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If we start going down the path of listing all the things Joe should have been charged with we would be here for days. Somehow the lack of charges against Biden are used as a defense of the charges of pedophile but the lack of charges against Gaetz means nothing . Seems very convenient for your argument. "It could mean something else" is not a defense of what was explicitly written by Ashley and the context around the statement. Who would be in position to bring the hammer down on Joe for the crime at this point? Is there a statute of limitations? These are legitimate questions so don't be offended by me asking you.

Matt being seen doing drugs and having sex are definitely bad but not crimes in and of themselves. If he had sex with a minor, transported her across state lines(trafficked) and paid her then he would have been prosecuted. At this point, he has been charged with nothing. But that somehow opens the door to ALL accusations being repeated as fact. You want to act like it was such an open and shut case but not one charge was able to be prosecuted. Gaetz is hardly as protected from prosecution as Biden seems to have been for all these decades, but as I said, a daughter's testimony holds far more weight than that of strangers' gathered by others with ulterior motives, some of whom have been exposed for giving false testimony.


"There is a reason they did this to me in a Christmas Eve-Eve report and not in a courtroom of any kind where I could present evidence and challenge witnesses," Gaetz wrote on X, contending that many of the claims in the report were inaccurate. He has repeatedly denied having sex with anyone under 18 and said money he transferred to women was to compensate girlfriends or ex-girlfriends for their travel.

Chris Dorworth, the former Florida state representative at whose home Gaetz allegedly had sex with the 17-year-old, denounced the report and said its release was an act of retaliation against Gaetz for helping to bring down former Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

"This is clearly a congressional hit job. It is painfully clear these women are lying," Dorworth wrote on X. "This is a shakedown that caught fire because Matt kicked Kevin McCarthy out of his job. This DID NOT HAPPEN. Every thing they said about me being there and witnessing any of it is a lie."

Zero charges. Your prosecution is lacking.

---

Again, if I were making the allegation he needed to be charged with a crime, you might have a point. But I made no such allegation. You are the poster who keeps bringing that up.

I began this thread by stating Gaetz is a Grade A scumbag based on the substantial evidence included in the report. I of course realize Gaetz is going to attempt to spin the multiple witnesses' testimony and evidence of payments (tens of thousands for mere travel expenses? I have some ocean front property in AZ if you believe that one). And just FYI, in most states, using drugs remains a crime.

---

Let's start with is it a requirement that only legally charged crimes break the House Ethic rules? I can't find anywhere that only legally chargeable crimes are ethics violations.


Also, based on the rules of the House in the Citizens Manual by the Office of Congressional Ethics, it seems Gaetz got more than a fair shake by it not being made public for so long. Usually, it is 45 days.

So, why is it an issue that it has been disclosed?


Citizens Guide to the Office of Congressional Ethics Draft - UPDATED_January 2022_FINAL_0.pdf

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

I'm no TDSer and I was certainly interested in reading a report I've heard about the last several years. But I understand why republicans would want it buried.

Don't disagree with the rest.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

Ok, let me get this right.

Because Biden was incompetent and failed, there should be no concern over any of Trump's Nominees. So, somewhere there is a correlation between Biden's incompetence making anyone Trump throws at us as a nominee acceptable. You really had to work to get there, huh?

Wow, you are really on the "We Love Donald" bandwagon. This is as bad as anything JillBear throws out there, as he looks lovingly at a picture of Donald...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

Ok, let me get this right.

Because Biden was incompetent and failed, there should be no concern over any of Trump's Nominees. So, somewhere there is a correlation between Biden's incompetence making anyone Trump throws at us as a nominee acceptable. You really had to work to get there, huh?

Wow, you are really on the "We Love Donald" bandwagon. This is as bad as anything JillBear throws out there, as he looks lovingly at a picture of Donald...

---

Learn to read and try again.You're boring me.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

Ok, let me get this right.

Because Biden was incompetent and failed, there should be no concern over any of Trump's Nominees. So, somewhere there is a correlation between Biden's incompetence making anyone Trump throws at us as a nominee acceptable. You really had to work to get there, huh?

Wow, you are really on the "We Love Donald" bandwagon. This is as bad as anything JillBear throws out there, as he looks lovingly at a picture of Donald...

---

Learn to read and try again.You're boring me.

---

"At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations."

Being bored is a sign of a weak mind, should work on that.. Maybe crosswords or sodoku may help instill a little mental discipline. Stop watching FOX News helps too

Read what you wrote. It is in quotes for you.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

Ok, let me get this right.

Because Biden was incompetent and failed, there should be no concern over any of Trump's Nominees. So, somewhere there is a correlation between Biden's incompetence making anyone Trump throws at us as a nominee acceptable. You really had to work to get there, huh?

Wow, you are really on the "We Love Donald" bandwagon. This is as bad as anything JillBear throws out there, as he looks lovingly at a picture of Donald...

---

Learn to read and try again.You're boring me.

---

your non thoughtful drivel leads to boardum

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

In the Trump era, it really doesn't matter. The vast majority of MAGA will defend him. Heck, Trump knew every letter of this and more and still nominated him for freaking AG.

Character matters or it doesn't.

---

Vast majority of GOP moderates will bail at the first sign of choppy water, no matter how flimsy the allegations. No stomach for the fight at all. Which of course guarantees character assassination via allegation of anyone who is effective.

INSANE: House Report On Matt Gaetz Relies On Witnesses Even The Corrupt DOJ Found Completely Lacked Any Credibility Whatsoever https://t.co/KEYb2yBgVU

— Mollie (@MZHemingway) December 23, 2024

---

Not true at all. Media and Dems have tried character assassination against every major GOP political figure since Reagan, and the party has stayed mostly unified. Who did the "moderates" ever prematurely bail on?

---

LOL

ever heard of Donald Trump?

---

Well, your post painted with a far broader brush.

As for Trump, whether you agree with it or not (I know you don't) can you not understand the backlash?

---

sure, he's not presidential in the conventional sense of the term. but, then, what has that gotten us...."presidential demeanor"...? Obama was positively regal in demeanor, a god on high. Clinton and Reagan wore the suit well and spoke in folksy, endearing tone, broadly likeable. But we have a $35T national debt with annual deficits on track to hit $3.5T for this FY alone. Our military is being indoctrinated by skit-wearing men that climate change is the greatest enemy we face. And tax dollars are being spent to welcome and distribute illegal aliens all across the US despite strong popular will for mass deportations. I mean, the list of grievances could go on for a while........

It is really unreasonable to conclude it's time for Jesus to start turning over tables in the market?

Almost without exception, the allegations against Trump and his admin were hoaxes. The lawfare against Trump was a far more grievous assault on rule of law than anything Trump did.

Over and over and over again, Trump's attackers displayed greater character flaws than Trump himself.

So many people who call themselves conservative do so to signal their "style" of politics - serious, quiet, wonky nuts & bolts administration of public affairs. The opposition to Democrats has far less to do with policy than with the raucous populism of leftist activists. So it's not surprising that they would shy away from Trumpist populism on the right. Problem is, Democrats know a lot of conservatives are like that, and they savage anyone on the right who is effective.

Democrats don't do that. The NEVER apologize for what their leaders or grassroots say or do. They let them go do the dirty work of moving the Overton Window (knowing that the GOP will spend most of its political capital trying to isolate the loudest voices in the GOP base.)

---

I agree with virtually all of this. I interpreted your earlier post as saying moderates have always hung conservatives out to dry at the slightest controversy.

That just isn't supported by the pre-Trump facts. In fact, if anything, conservatives (and I'm one) have kicked moderates to the curb even in blue states. Hence the overused "RINO."
The problem is that RINOs rarely get kicked to the curb anywhere, and some of the worst & most indefensible of them are from red states.

I've posted about TDS since the earliest days of Trump. It's real. But to me, TDS is not a conservative who speaks out against Trump, but rather, one, thats all they do, and two, they have changed their positions and basically or actually become Dems due to their TDS. That includes, among many others, Kristol, Frum, Moore, Kinzinger, Rubin, Walsh, Cheney, Sykes, Boot, Brooks.

But there are others who have remained consistent - Erickson, most National Review folks, Romney, Douhat, Pence, Sasse, Amash, Benson, French (arguably). And I'm certainly not saying the latter group are always right. Far from it. But they have good faith, strong objections to Trump.
I'd drop French from that list. He's made some awfully silly arguments, going considerably further than the rest in putting vanity ahead of principles. but regardless how we peel that onion, Democrats simply do not have a list of critics like that. They understand that parties hang together or they hang separately. They punish their moderate dissenters harshly. Look what happened to Joe Lieberman for being too nice with McCain. Look what happened to Mike Flynn for opposing Obama policy and switching parties. Dude nearly went to prison for the most contrived of reasons.

---

GOP still has a lot of work to do to get to party discipline. Any one of those names you mentioned, either list, are a serious obstacle to achieving objectives they claim to share. Their vanity has elevated them to superior beings exempt from any obligation whatsoever to cooperate with their perceived intellectual inferiors.

Look at it this way: is the fundamental dysfunction of the GOP that a vast majority of the party is frustrated due to unrealistic expectations of people they call "RINOs"? Or is the problem that the RINOS themselves are unable to play team ball? Answer: Dems win party line votes all the time. Republicans rarely do. That is a problem. And that problem is not derivative of the conservatives. It's solely a problem of moderates who attach more virtue to cooperating with people they mostly disagree with than they do in cooperating with people they mostly agree with.

This is really quite simple. Those crazy right wingers empower you. When you fight them, you make yourself weaker. It's Game of Thrones simple = NEVER attack your base. NEVER. EVER. Democrats understand that and never deviate from it. The wizards of smart in the GOP, though.....they just cannot let themselves see it. One could be forgiven if concluding their agenda is to defeat rather than further conservative causes (because that is the clear outcome of their virtue posturing.)

J.R. said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

JR doesn't need evidence, it just slows down his lynchings.

---

The creepy TDS obsession is weird. Gaetz bowed out a month ago and the TDSers are still obsessed with him ... ignoring the fact the current POTUS is a credibly accused rapist and likely incestuious pedophile.

---

A few things...

1) Gaetz report came out last week. That's why it's in the news.

2) Far be it from me to defend Biden, but I don't recall any rape allegations against him. From what I recall, Tara Reade accused him of sexual assault - kissing her and groping her privates or some such. I don't recall her accusing him of raping her. And speaking of credibility issues, if I recall, her story changed several times, and she eventually defected to Russia.

Biden certainly appears to be a creep. But much of this stuff is no different than the stuff Trump has been accused of.

---

The Gaetz report is not news because Gaetz is no longer newsworthy. He's a private citizen. He's a ******bag but who cares. It's silly.

She was very consistent that he digitally raped her and shared the story multiple times - I am not aware of any details changing, and her moving to Russia has little bearing on the veracity of her allegations.

As I have stated before, there are a great myriad of us who don't love or hate Trump but get really sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

Much of what the TDSers interpret is love for Trump is desire for a fair, honest system that does not discriminate based on political party.

---

Can't agree it's not newsworthy. Guy was the AG nominee and a sitting congressman just a month ago and withdrew his name in part over the report.

Her account changed over time. Originally she said he stroked her neck and twirled her curly hair between his fingers. It was only much later she claimed he groped her genitals. Doesn't mean she's not telling the truth but there was an odd evolving of the story over time.

I don't like the double standard either but I think Dems are nevertheless entitled to the same skepticism that republicans are entitled to if there are problems with the accusers account. I'd prefer to treat such allegations like I'd treat them if they were leveled at Trump.

---

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. Gaetz is gone and no longer relevant to anyone but the fever dreams of TDSers. Hard to get too upset when we have Congressmen than think islands can tump over.

At the end of the day, after an administration responsible for:
1. The surrender to the Taliban debacle
2. The Gaza floating relief dock

I really do not want to hear anyone concerned about the competence of Trump's nominations.

There has never been a Confederacy of Dunces assembled like the Biden Administration.

---

Ok, let me get this right.

Because Biden was incompetent and failed, there should be no concern over any of Trump's Nominees. So, somewhere there is a correlation between Biden's incompetence making anyone Trump throws at us as a nominee acceptable. You really had to work to get there, huh?

Wow, you are really on the "We Love Donald" bandwagon. This is as bad as anything JillBear throws out there, as he looks lovingly at a picture of Donald...

---

Learn to read and try again.You're boring me.

---

your non thoughtful drivel leads to boardum

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boardum delirium: terminal TDS characterized by nonsensical ranting, complete with frequent errors in grammar and spelling.

sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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sombear said:

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In the Trump era, it really doesn't matter. The vast majority of MAGA will defend him. Heck, Trump knew every letter of this and more and still nominated him for freaking AG.

Character matters or it doesn't.

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since the news came out, I've yet to see anyone defend him. Have you?

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Half the posters on here and virtually every MAGA influencer is either outright defending him, questioning the evidence, or playing whataboutism.

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We are allowed to question the allegations. As for whataboutism, I get it. Hard to take the outrage seriously when it comes from people who defended Joe Biden after learning he took inappropriate showers with his own daughter.

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Gaetz wasn't arrested or even kicked out of Congress, and bizarrely, he was up for AG and now possible Senate or Governor.

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Not after this report of findings. He's done in the "elective" arena. That's likely a main reason the group released the report.

Mothra said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Mothra said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Mothra said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Just the kind of guy with all the qualifications Trump wants in an AG.

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And you know what's truly incredible about it? He's still 100 fold better than the disaster that was Biden.

But we all know you don't care about horrible democrats and their policies

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Goes to show what you think is not always correct. I don't support Democrats nor their policies. I do try to be objective and fair in my opinions and assessments. A broken watch is correct twice per day.

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Who is the last Democrat you've criticized on this board, when did it occur, and what was the substance of the critique?

If you are as fair and balanced as you maintain, shouldn't be difficult to point it out.

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I've been critical at times. I don't agree with most of Biden's policies, and extreme left positions. However, I've been more concerned with the extremism, non-conservative positions and hypocrisy of far right wing nuts that have crept into and taken over R party. They are equally dangerous, if not more so than Ds right now, so I've tended to respond to and point out extremist, autocratic, and vitriolic views from the right. The R party used to stand up for character, integrity, and moral and conservative principles. It has become more like the D party in many ways, and uniquely extreme in others. I'm essentially a Reagan Republican.

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Where have you been critical? Can you show this board even one post where you've been critical of Biden's policies or far left positions?

BTW, your misplaced priorities tell one all they need to know about you. If you are more concerned about Trump's policies than Biden's, you're not really a conservative or a Republican.

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I remember a post of his being critical of Sam Brinton for wearing white after Labor Day.

ttt

I know Texas Anti-Science will duck and run but still going to remind him.

ttt

still skirting.

TexasScientist said:

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Mothra said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Just the kind of guy with all the qualifications Trump wants in an AG.

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And you know what's truly incredible about it? He's still 100 fold better than the disaster that was Biden.

But we all know you don't care about horrible democrats and their policies

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I do care, but I don't want to support crazy anti-democratic policies from the extreme right just because the nonfactual rhetoric sounds catchy. The extreme right can wreck our country just as fast or even faster than the left.

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Please identify the "crazy anti-democratic policies" of Trump's. And let's exclude January 6th for a moment (which we agree was despicable), because that's not a policy. I want to hear the specific policies propagated by Trump or his ilk that are either "anti-democratic" or more dangerous for the country than open borders, runaway inflation, prioritizing DEI in all aspects of life, trans insanity and an interventionist foreign policy and war throughout the world.

And just an FYI, you just said Trump isn't a conservative, so the whole scared of "extreme right" policies position simply doesn't hold water.

Additionally, saying you didn't vote or support Biden is not a criticism of Biden or Democrats. I am looking for a specific critique of a policy or action on the part of Biden or Democrats - like you do with Republicans all the time on this board. I will disclose that I just looked at about 5 pages of your posting history, and found dozens of posts critical of Republicans. Didn't find a single post where you did the same thing about Democrats or Biden. So this may be quite a challenge for you.

BTW, I agree with you regarding Mike McCaul and Dan Crenshaw. Guess what? They both endorsed/voted Trump. I suspect they were probably pragmatic and smart enough to realize that even if they disagree with Trump on issues, it's far better to have someone in office who you can agree with on some issues than none. But unlike you, they're actual conservatives.

ttt Where's Texas anti-science?

I suspect we will hear nothing coherent as it's actually impossible to defend that the last 4 years of obamabiden were a success in any way unless you know how to make money off the fools. In that sense it was historically successful

Never found someone with TDS and / or hate for trump that could coherently defend how 1) he had bad policies or 2) the whole world in fire in literally every aspect of life has been better

Btw where's that British person that posts on here? Elon been destroying the leftist Brit's. Maybe he's a Muslim?

Yeah, the TDSers are all emotion and cannot formulate specifics or a coherent argument.

ttt

Where did the Flat Earther go?

ttt