Here is Baylor's Letter To Briles

141,612 Views | 978 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Malbec
xiledinok
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They handled things like organized crime. The top man keeps out of it in case folks get implicated. It keeps RICCO off the table for #1 if possible.
Nevertheless, Ian is more to blame than Briles because he was in charge and didn't cool off these problems.
Shilling****head was Briles' fixer and did nothing. Ian passed the buck and then handed it to Briles to take all the blame.
I am more curious why people don't understand that Ian could have took care of things like good athletic directors do in college.
Keyser Soze
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xiledinok said:

They handled things like organized crime. The top man keeps out of it in case folks get implicated. It keeps RICCO off the table for #1 if possible.
Nevertheless, Ian is more to blame than Briles because he was in charge and didn't cool off these problems.
Shilling****head was Briles' fixer and did nothing. Ian passed the buck and then handed it to Briles to take all the blame.
I am more curious why people don't understand that Ian could have took care of things like good athletic directors do in college.


Was kinda hard for the admin to step it up sooner when all the status reports were coming from an AD that was simi-complicit with it all.
REX
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Keyser Soze said:

xiledinok said:

They handled things like organized crime. The top man keeps out of it in case folks get implicated. It keeps RICCO off the table for #1 if possible.
Nevertheless, Ian is more to blame than Briles because he was in charge and didn't cool off these problems.
Shilling****head was Briles' fixer and did nothing. Ian passed the buck and then handed it to Briles to take all the blame.
I am more curious why people don't understand that Ian could have took care of things like good athletic directors do in college.


Was kinda hard for the admin to step it up sooner when all the status reports were coming from an AD that was simi-complicit with it all.

Do you need to borrow my Reynolds Wrap?
Makes great tinfoil hats!
Keyser Soze
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REX said:

Keyser Soze said:

xiledinok said:

They handled things like organized crime. The top man keeps out of it in case folks get implicated. It keeps RICCO off the table for #1 if possible.
Nevertheless, Ian is more to blame than Briles because he was in charge and didn't cool off these problems.
Shilling****head was Briles' fixer and did nothing. Ian passed the buck and then handed it to Briles to take all the blame.
I am more curious why people don't understand that Ian could have took care of things like good athletic directors do in college.


Was kinda hard for the admin to step it up sooner when all the status reports were coming from an AD that was simi-complicit with it all.

Do you need to borrow my Reynolds Wrap?
Makes great tinfoil hats!
So the AD does not report on athletics? Who does?
Eastside Bear
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
Southtxbear
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REX said:

Keyser Soze said:

80sBEAR said:

Keyser Soze said:

REX said:

Keyser Soze said:

REX said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.



He never lost to Liberty
Liberty
Let that really sink in
So you are cool with rape as long as we win?

So are you cool with closing say the business school if on of those students commits rape?
The law school? Shouldn't all things be equal?
Who closed football?

If the Dean of the Business Schools is turning a blind eye and having his underlings fix things he needs to go.

False comparisons are false
You and your friends on the BOR, Keyser, have won and the Baylor Alumni have lost. We get it. No fight left in me. I am tired and need to focus things other than Baylor. All of this has pulled me down to a dark place I don't need to be. Time to focus on more wholesome and honorable endeavors than what Baylor has become.

There are no winners and losers. I don't think the victims of rape consider themselves a winner because the football coach was fired.

Ian and Brenda say hi!!!!!
Strange that the alleged victims would consider themselves winners bc a person with no connection to the rape allegations was fired.
xiledinok
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Briles is still head coach at Baylor if Ian steps in and does his job.
I think many programs layer issues. I m sorry for the school that our adminstration and regents didn't have a good athletic director. I feel sorry for the students and faculty that the regent leadership didn't lead. I feel sorry that Starr didn't follow the law or sue to protect Baylor against Title IX.
I believe in my heart that had a capable athletic director been involved Art would have not been surprised when he was fired.
He seemed stunned. I don't think Ian ever spoke to him about the trouble the school was having with things.
Art's problem is with tv. The Canadian should have stepped up on those issues long before PH. Baylor was paying to much for scheduling for tv to become an issue.
Eastside Bear
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xiledinok said:

Briles is still head coach at Baylor if Ian steps in and does his job.
I think many programs layer issues. I m sorry for the school that our adminstration and regents didn't have a good athletic director. I feel sorry for the students and faculty that the regent leadership didn't lead. I feel sorry that Starr didn't follow the law or sue to protect Baylor against Title IX.
I believe in my heart that had a capable athletic director been involved Art would have not been surprised when he was fired.
He seemed stunned. I don't think Ian ever spoke to him about the trouble the school was having with things.
Art's problem is with tv. The Canadian should have stepped up on those issues long before PH. Baylor was paying to much for scheduling for tv to become an issue.

Or maybe Baylor was winning too much at the expense of ESPN and The Longhorn Network
80sBEAR
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Keyser Soze said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

Keyser Soze said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

The problem with this letter is that it essentially contradicts the smear job of the regents that went to the Wall Street journal.

No idea who is in charge in that place.
No is doesn't

The statements made to the WSJ said nothing of anyone reporting directly to Briles.

The WSJ said there were allegations from 17 victims involving 19 football players 4 of which were gang rapes. Briles knew of at least one gang rape and did not report this outside of athletics.

Now the letter

"In particular, at this time we are unaware of any situation where you personally had contact with anyone who directly reported to you being the victim of sexual assault or that you directly discouraged the victim of an alleged sexual assault from reporting to law enforcement or University officials. Nor are we aware of any situation where you played a student athlete who had been found responsible for sexual assault.


The letter does contradict many ruthless internet rumors. It is remarkably specific. There is zero contradiction with the F of F, WSJ, or Shillinglaw response.





You're not getting it and I don't think you're gonna get it.

if he's completely innocent, you can write this letter. But if there is even a slight doubt that he caused liability you don't write this letter at all.

Make sense?
Now you are changing directions. I addressed your post. It was wrong


You need to reread that letter a few times. It does not say what you think it does. It is about as narrow as it can possibly be.
The ongoing problem is not the King's ransom that Baylor paid Briles to leave, but Baylor's willingness to write seven figure checks to any female that dated a Baylor Football player, did not get a next day call back, and did not make her grades. The Baylor Lotto will continue. The letter pretty much confirms how grossly incompetent these people are. The Baylor BOR says THANK you for your $$$$$. Please send more green and gold is accepted as well. Embarrassing.
xiledinok
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Eastside, your theory would work but TCU was there too. They scheduled and we didn't schedule.
These executives need winners. Plenty of them turn on the tv to watch a winner.
Unless you graduated from UT, you don't care about them. T-shirt fans switch or pick up allegiances all the time.
See Miami.
The fact the advertisers threatened to pull out the Cfl because of Art is not good.


80sBear, too bad the game didn't end at 3 p.m. I would have bailed you out if you had the confrontation that you wouldn't have resisted with jumbo shrimpers like bank failure and ***** pump salesman. You are truly a loyal guy that loves what Briles accomplished at Baylor. You are the best fan we have at Baylor.
Keyser Soze
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80sBEAR said:

Keyser Soze said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

Keyser Soze said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

The problem with this letter is that it essentially contradicts the smear job of the regents that went to the Wall Street journal.

No idea who is in charge in that place.
No is doesn't

The statements made to the WSJ said nothing of anyone reporting directly to Briles.

The WSJ said there were allegations from 17 victims involving 19 football players 4 of which were gang rapes. Briles knew of at least one gang rape and did not report this outside of athletics.

Now the letter

"In particular, at this time we are unaware of any situation where you personally had contact with anyone who directly reported to you being the victim of sexual assault or that you directly discouraged the victim of an alleged sexual assault from reporting to law enforcement or University officials. Nor are we aware of any situation where you played a student athlete who had been found responsible for sexual assault.


The letter does contradict many ruthless internet rumors. It is remarkably specific. There is zero contradiction with the F of F, WSJ, or Shillinglaw response.





You're not getting it and I don't think you're gonna get it.

if he's completely innocent, you can write this letter. But if there is even a slight doubt that he caused liability you don't write this letter at all.

Make sense?
Now you are changing directions. I addressed your post. It was wrong


You need to reread that letter a few times. It does not say what you think it does. It is about as narrow as it can possibly be.
The ongoing problem is not the King's ransom that Baylor paid Briles to leave, but Baylor's willingness to write seven figure checks to any female that dated a Baylor Football player, did not get a next day call back, and did not make her grades. The Baylor Lotto will continue. The letter pretty much confirms how grossly incompetent these people are. The Baylor BOR says THANK you for your $$$$$. Please send more green and gold is accepted as well. Embarrassing.
Your reading comprehension of that letter is very poor.

You are spouting off wild speculation ..... again
Eastside Bear
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xiledinok said:

Eastside, your theory would work but TCU was there too. They scheduled and we didn't schedule.
These executives need winners. Plenty of them turn on the tv to watch a winner.
Unless you graduated from UT, you don't care about them. T-shirt fans switch or pick up allegiances all the time.
See Miami.
The fact the advertisers threatened to pull out the Cfl because of Art is not good.


80sBear, too bad the game didn't end at 3 p.m. I would have bailed you out if you had the confrontation that you wouldn't have resisted with jumbo shrimpers like bank failure and ***** pump salesman. You are truly a loyal guy that loves what Briles accomplished at Baylor. You are the best fan we have at Baylor.
Good point on TCU. As far as UT goes, we both know that a strong Texas team makes a lot more money for ESPN than a strong Baylor team.
Keyser Soze
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Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
Robert Wilson
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That's not shielding.

At most it is not reporting, in a fact pattern than was strange, with numerous people already having been told, and with a backdrop of questionable training and systems designed to catch this.

If the BOR had stronger facts we would have already seen them.
xiledinok
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I live in Oklahoma. I would believe a big strong team in Texas to challenge UT would pick up t shirt fans.

The LHN won't ever make money. No one gives a f about Texas outside the state. The Longhorns are the most overinflated program in the country. No one under 40 thinks they have a tradition worth ***** The networks need a new Texas brand to play Alabama and USC. ESPN already knows they lost on that money and fired people because of it.

Shill was mid major. Ou could have avoided this deal. He was no good at handling matters. It would have handled at OU. Patterson handled his scandal too.
Keyser Soze
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Robert Wilson said:

That's not shielding.

At most it is not reporting, in a fact pattern than was strange, with numerous people already having been told, and with a backdrop of questionable training and systems designed to catch this.

Going with the "it depends on what the definition of "is" is"

On the up side, you could be President
Boatshoes
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xiledinok said:

I live in Oklahoma. I would believe a big strong team in Texas to challenge UT would pick up t shirt fans.

Probably...but whoever that team is, it won't be us.
Robert Wilson
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At my best, I aspire to mince and parse words with our BOR.
Brodney Pool
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So much misinformation in this one post....
RegentCoverup
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Keyser Soze said:

xiledinok said:

They handled things like organized crime. The top man keeps out of it in case folks get implicated. It keeps RICCO off the table for #1 if possible.
Nevertheless, Ian is more to blame than Briles because he was in charge and didn't cool off these problems.
Shilling****head was Briles' fixer and did nothing. Ian passed the buck and then handed it to Briles to take all the blame.
I am more curious why people don't understand that Ian could have took care of things like good athletic directors do in college.


Was kinda hard for the admin to step it up sooner when all the status reports were coming from an AD that was simi-complicit with it all.
True.

But that's a problem that deserved attention long before this came to light.
Eastside Bear
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
Malbec
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Keyser Soze said:

Robert Wilson said:

That's not shielding.

At most it is not reporting, in a fact pattern than was strange, with numerous people already having been told, and with a backdrop of questionable training and systems designed to catch this.

Going with the "it depends on what the definition of "is" is"

On the up side, you could be President
"....when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

Whoa Nellie! Wasn't it that paragon of BOR dogma that you like to quote, the FoF, that chastised the program for investigating allegations and applying separate discipline? So, here Briles is chastised for NOT doing the very things that we were all told he shouldn't have been doing before?

Apparently, the definition of "is" is "isn't."
Keyser Soze
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Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
Keyser Soze
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Malbec said:

Keyser Soze said:

Robert Wilson said:

That's not shielding.

At most it is not reporting, in a fact pattern than was strange, with numerous people already having been told, and with a backdrop of questionable training and systems designed to catch this.

Going with the "it depends on what the definition of "is" is"

On the up side, you could be President
"....when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

Whoa Nellie! Wasn't it that paragon of BOR dogma that you like to quote, the FoF, that chastised the program for investigating allegations and applying separate discipline? So, here Briles is chastised for NOT doing the very things that we were all told he shouldn't have been doing before?

Apparently, the definition of "is" is "isn't."

I would say doing nothing was simply a part of his system of disciple. Saying he did not have his own system of justice because he did nothing is laughable. The are many other instances besides this one.
Robert Wilson
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Keyser Soze said:


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinates dinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "


Man, you are stretching big time. The report says we did not have adequate systems or training of athletic personnel in place. Then we infer from another event that he should've known judicial affairs handle this sort of thing. And, on that basis, hangs the most salacious allegation, which is just a single failure to report an incident that was many months old and already known by numerous other people who also would have had a reporting obligation. That's a darn thin reed upon which to hang his firing. And it's the best story the BOR apparently had.
Eastside Bear
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?
Beaneater
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You keep quoting a pleading like its the gold standard truth. We have no idea if it is the truth or not.

Earlier you said there are no winners or losers. You are half right. There are no winners, true. But, everyone involved is a loser: victims, the accused, coaches, football admin, university admin, bor, alumni, everyone, there are no winners, and everyone is a loser.
Keyser Soze
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Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?
None of the three reported it including Barnes.
chukronos
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
So, did the football program report outside the athletic department to judicial affairs or not? If not, how was one of his players able to be cleared by Judicial Affairs?

And, wasn't one of the problems, supposedly, that the football program did its own internal investigations? Yet, here we see that they didn't investigate jack.
Robert Wilson
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True

And I think it is fair to say that the PH report should not be quoted like it is some kind of gospel. It is one angle from an investigator. It is not the product of a process that includes any advocacy on the behalf of its targets.
Keyser Soze
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chukronos said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
So, did the football program report outside the athletic department to judicial affairs or not? If not, how was one of his players able to be cleared by Judicial Affairs?

And, wasn't one of the problems, supposedly, that the football program did its own internal investigations? Yet, here we see that they didn't investigate jack.
Not sure anyone said it was an all or nothing thing. Even shoplifters pay for most items they get from stores. You are grasping at straws.




Eastside Bear
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?
None of the three reported it including Barnes.
I included four names, not three. Barnes was the only one who heard about it firsthand. I also thought she told Barnes that she did not want it being reported to anyone including JA. Like I said before, this allegation had already been sent up the chain of command. I still do not see how Briles is responsible for this. I definitely do not see Briles shielding anyone from rape allegations or covering up rape. That stuff mentioned in the texts goes on in ever single program in the nation. Name me one where it doesn't.
chukronos
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Not grasping at straws at all. It is obtuse of you to believe so. You, on the other hand, are picking and choosing what you believe fits your narrative. Your blinders are on. I would just like the truth. The quotes I asked about are contradictory. Simple as that.
Bearster
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Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination




This is an honest question...I'm not trying to stir things up. Keyser, even at BFans you seemed knowledgeable and rational so that's why asking you. But if exactly 1 player who played a single down was convicted of rape, where are all these other rapes that people speak of? Sam O. had a clean sheet according to the AD of Boise state when he got here. No one knew about his issues. I read a comment on Facebook from a girl who states she has multiple friends who were raped by Oakman. Well why the hell wouldn't they come forward? Am I missing something?
Keyser Soze
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Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

Eastside Bear said:

Keyser Soze said:

historian said:

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.


Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.
Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination


Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.
"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "
That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.
The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "
Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?
None of the three reported it including Barnes.
I included four names, not three. Barnes was the only one who heard about it firsthand. I also thought she told Barnes that she did not want it being reported to anyone including JA. Like I said before, this allegation had already been sent up the chain of command. I still do not see how Briles is responsible for this. I definitely do not see Briles shielding anyone from rape allegations or covering up rape. That stuff mentioned in the texts goes on in ever single program in the nation. Name me one where it doesn't.
You are correct the girl did not want it reported to the police or JA. It was never sent up the chain of command - the assistants were duped and very foolish in their tweets.

From the paragraph above, Briles & McCaw knew JA (Title IX) had jurisdiction and they knew Barnes had not reported it.
 
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