No one denies that our recruiting wouldn't be better with greater NIL capabilities. But those of us who live in reality know that you have to have people willing to fund those things, and Baylor never will to the degree that you guys seem to believe is possible.

So you can either ***** about it, or you can figure out a way to compete with the NIL money you can generate, which shouldn't be that difficult in our conference. Either way, a non-blueblood school like Baylor can not operate successfully with the myriad inefficiencies we currently have in our program under Aranda and Co. Fixing those should be Priority No. 1.

bear2be2 said:

---

No one denies that our recruiting wouldn't be better with greater NIL capabilities. But those of us who live in reality know that you have to have people willing to fund those things, and Baylor never will to the degree that you guys seem to believe is possible.

So you can either ***** about it, or you can figure out a way to compete with the NIL money you can generate, which shouldn't be that difficult in our conference. Either way, a non-blueblood school like Baylor can not operate successfully with the myriad inefficiencies we currently have in our program under Aranda and Co. Fixing those should be Priority No. 1.

---

I keep bringing up Bill Snyder, but his program at K-state should be our blueprint if we want to stick with a nice, soft-spoken coach

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Exactly right.
Good kids want to play for coaches and programs that will elevate them and perhaps play for a championship. We don't offer that.

I wonder how Scott Drew is attracting all that talent? Its probably not because of NIL

Grimes and Bell are making NIL a non factor for us

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Baylor has set up a QB nightmare. GB, Zeno, Drones, and Rogers leaving and losing Novosad on the last day has left a bad taste. I agree, if my son was a QB it would be tough to say go to Baylor.

---

Also you had a coach who benched his starter who went 12-2 with a Sugar Bowl victory and ran off a 4 star guy by not giving him snaps
No dad wants to send his son into that situation

robby44 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Baylor has set up a QB nightmare. GB, Zeno, Drones, and Rogers leaving and losing Novosad on the last day has left a bad taste. I agree, if my son was a QB it would be tough to say go to Baylor.

---

Also you had a coach who benched his starter who went 12-2 with a Sugar Bowl victory and ran off a 4 star guy by not giving him snaps
No dad wants to send his son into that situation

---

I can't argue. In hindsight not letting GB fail before moving to Shapen was wrong. I was one who thought Shapen gave us a better chance to win, I was wrong. It created a mess.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

My understanding is that this is similar to what happened with Novosad. Our staff was not offering Novosad much money, if anything. He started to explore his options and realized that other programs were offering upwards of 300-500k. Rumor was that Aranda actually went against his NIL conviction of not money whipping individual players, and Baylor drew upon all its resources and put together a last minute NIL package…..of like 100k. Oregon was offering him significantly more, but the dude's family is rich, so the staff assumed that money wouldn't be that big of a deal. What pushed him over the edge is the fact that Aranda's staff doesn't develop quarterbacks and put them into the NFL. Oregon was also accentuating the exact same 'person over player, we're a family here' vibe that Baylor did. Person over player is not a unique sales pitch. Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen…. We also had a recent mass exodus of quarterbacks that I'm sure was difficult to explain to a recruit's family

No Quarterback said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

My understanding is that this is similar to what happened with Novosad. Our staff was not offering Novosad much money, if anything. He started to explore his options and realized that other programs were offering upwards of 300-500k. Rumor was that Aranda actually went against his NIL conviction of not money whipping individual players, and Baylor drew upon all its resources and put together a last minute NIL package…..of like 100k. Oregon was offering him significantly more, but the dude's family is rich, so the staff assumed that money wouldn't be that big of a deal. What pushed him over the edge is the fact that Aranda's staff doesn't develop quarterbacks and put them into the NFL. Oregon was also accentuating the exact same 'person over player, we're a family here' vibe that Baylor did. Person over player is not a unique sales pitch. Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen…. We also had a recent mass exodus of quarterbacks that I'm sure was difficult to explain to a recruit's family

---

Novosad says he went with the coach he trusted would develop him. Last week that coach was on the national stage and pistol whipped Colorado.

Maybe he got some loot, too. It's hard for me to see their offense last week and our offense last week and decided he went to Oregon because they offered the most money.

Our offense looked like when scouts come here for Pro Day next spring, they're gonna be interested in our kicker.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

No Quarterback said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

My understanding is that this is similar to what happened with Novosad. Our staff was not offering Novosad much money, if anything. He started to explore his options and realized that other programs were offering upwards of 300-500k. Rumor was that Aranda actually went against his NIL conviction of not money whipping individual players, and Baylor drew upon all its resources and put together a last minute NIL package…..of like 100k. Oregon was offering him significantly more, but the dude's family is rich, so the staff assumed that money wouldn't be that big of a deal. What pushed him over the edge is the fact that Aranda's staff doesn't develop quarterbacks and put them into the NFL. Oregon was also accentuating the exact same 'person over player, we're a family here' vibe that Baylor did. Person over player is not a unique sales pitch. Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen…. We also had a recent mass exodus of quarterbacks that I'm sure was difficult to explain to a recruit's family

---

Novosad says he went with the coach he trusted would develop him. Last week that coach was on the national stage and pistol whipped Colorado.

Maybe he got some loot, too. It's hard for me to see their offense last week and our offense last week and decided he went to Oregon because they offered the most money.

Our offense looked like when scouts come here for Pro Day next spring, they're gonna be interested in our kicker.

---

Will we have a pro day?

robby44 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Exactly right.
Good kids want to play for coaches and programs that will elevate them and perhaps play for a championship. We don't offer that.

I wonder how Scott Drew is attracting all that talent? Its probably not because of NIL

Grimes and Bell are making NIL a non factor for us

---

Drew's top kids are getting fat checks from the shoe companies. He may have some NIL to distribute.

He also has the benefit of smaller rosters, history of developing players and putting them in the league, and good culture.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

No Quarterback said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

My understanding is that this is similar to what happened with Novosad. Our staff was not offering Novosad much money, if anything. He started to explore his options and realized that other programs were offering upwards of 300-500k. Rumor was that Aranda actually went against his NIL conviction of not money whipping individual players, and Baylor drew upon all its resources and put together a last minute NIL package…..of like 100k. Oregon was offering him significantly more, but the dude's family is rich, so the staff assumed that money wouldn't be that big of a deal. What pushed him over the edge is the fact that Aranda's staff doesn't develop quarterbacks and put them into the NFL. Oregon was also accentuating the exact same 'person over player, we're a family here' vibe that Baylor did. Person over player is not a unique sales pitch. Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen…. We also had a recent mass exodus of quarterbacks that I'm sure was difficult to explain to a recruit's family

---

Novosad says he went with the coach he trusted would develop him. Last week that coach was on the national stage and pistol whipped Colorado.

Maybe he got some loot, too. It's hard for me to see their offense last week and our offense last week and decided he went to Oregon because they offered the most money.

Our offense looked like when scouts come here for Pro Day next spring, they're gonna be interested in our kicker.

---

Will we have a pro day?

---

Yes.

No Quarterback said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen.

---

That's great except Lanning was coaching linebackers at UGA and UO's OC was coaching HS when Herbert got drafted. And Nix has never played a down in the NFL and, if he does, unlikely it will be due to an OC they just hired.

Those guys have exactly zero experience putting QBs in the NFL.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

No Quarterback said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

My understanding is that this is similar to what happened with Novosad. Our staff was not offering Novosad much money, if anything. He started to explore his options and realized that other programs were offering upwards of 300-500k. Rumor was that Aranda actually went against his NIL conviction of not money whipping individual players, and Baylor drew upon all its resources and put together a last minute NIL package…..of like 100k. Oregon was offering him significantly more, but the dude's family is rich, so the staff assumed that money wouldn't be that big of a deal. What pushed him over the edge is the fact that Aranda's staff doesn't develop quarterbacks and put them into the NFL. Oregon was also accentuating the exact same 'person over player, we're a family here' vibe that Baylor did. Person over player is not a unique sales pitch. Oregon could point to Justin Herbert and Bo Nix. We could point to Zach Wilson (ouch) and Blake Shapen…. We also had a recent mass exodus of quarterbacks that I'm sure was difficult to explain to a recruit's family

---

Novosad says he went with the coach he trusted would develop him. Last week that coach was on the national stage and pistol whipped Colorado.

Maybe he got some loot, too. It's hard for me to see their offense last week and our offense last week and decided he went to Oregon because they offered the most money.

Our offense looked like when scouts come here for Pro Day next spring, they're gonna be interested in our kicker.

---

To be clear here, Novosad had a relationship with the Oregon OC since the 8th grade, and, while I do believe Oregon probably offered him more money, I don't believe that he would've stayed with Baylor if Baylor had offered him more money in that scenario as Baylor successfully held off other programs that pursued him that both pay more and regularly put QBs in the NFL, like Ohio State. If that's true, and it is, this was likely more of a relationship thing than anything else.

This was a last minute flip. Don't pretend money had nothing to do with it.

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

This was a last minute flip. Don't pretend money had nothing to do with it.

---

Do you or anyone else here believe Oregon has more money to spend on NIL than Ohio State? In addition and as discussed ad nauseam on this forum, Oregon didn't really want him until the last minute due to Oregon losing its QB to UCLA.

Division Street was founded by Phil Knight and is the #3 NIL Collective according to On3. So like Ohio State, they have money.

I don't think it's safe to assume that money had nothing to do with the late flip, even if Ohio State originally offered even more money. Money is a big part of the equation, but not the only part. But to assume money has nothing to do with anything is misguided.

If you don't believe money was a factor, then fine. We will disagree. But on that night he flipped, Oregon had the money. Baylor did not.

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

This was a last minute flip. Don't pretend money had nothing to do with it.

---

That's because his OC left UTSA for Oregon. He was going D1.

No Quarterback said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

No one denies that our recruiting wouldn't be better with greater NIL capabilities. But those of us who live in reality know that you have to have people willing to fund those things, and Baylor never will to the degree that you guys seem to believe is possible.

So you can either ***** about it, or you can figure out a way to compete with the NIL money you can generate, which shouldn't be that difficult in our conference. Either way, a non-blueblood school like Baylor can not operate successfully with the myriad inefficiencies we currently have in our program under Aranda and Co. Fixing those should be Priority No. 1.

---

I keep bringing up Bill Snyder, but his program at K-state should be our blueprint if we want to stick with a nice, soft-spoken coach

---

He built his success of JUCO transfers. So basically, he used that era's version of the portal.

We lost to Texas state. Gotta start somewhere

morethanhecouldbear said:

---

No Quarterback said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

No one denies that our recruiting wouldn't be better with greater NIL capabilities. But those of us who live in reality know that you have to have people willing to fund those things, and Baylor never will to the degree that you guys seem to believe is possible.

So you can either ***** about it, or you can figure out a way to compete with the NIL money you can generate, which shouldn't be that difficult in our conference. Either way, a non-blueblood school like Baylor can not operate successfully with the myriad inefficiencies we currently have in our program under Aranda and Co. Fixing those should be Priority No. 1.

---

I keep bringing up Bill Snyder, but his program at K-state should be our blueprint if we want to stick with a nice, soft-spoken coach

---

He built his success of JUCO transfers. So basically, he used that era's version of the portal.

---

He used the Nebraska model of Tom Osborne. Osborne used walk-ons and prop 48 to build his teams. There is a reason why Nebraska fell off after 96 when the B12 came into existence, no partial qualifiers. They grandfathered who they had and then nothing, they became what they are today.

Snyder learned from that and went the JC route. Snyder was also manical in his attention to detail and controlling everything. I heard from one of his former staff that he planned the bus routes for the team buses and told the drivers how to go. What type of butter to use on team meals when traveling. Who does that? Good man and great coach, but not many like him around!

PartyBear said:

---

Why not work it the same way we do for coaching salary budgets or nice new facilities and expansions thereof?

Every argument you make as to why we for some reason should blow off NIL and we will still be fine are the arguments from the 90s folks before you were making against paying coaches alot of money and having nice facilities which doomed us to darkness for a prolonged period of time. I'm not interested in doing that shxt again especially when Baylor's leaders can cut the decline now and get it together now and prevent another prolonged difficult to get out of period of darkness.

---

His point is you are spending other people's money. Are you willing to chip in $25k a year?

Baylor has been spending other people's money on athletics for decades including mine. Where has been this opposition to this concept once Baylor decided to do it when it comes to the new hoops facility, practice facilities, the stadium etc?

PartyBear said:

---

Baylor has been spending other people's money on athletics for decades including mine. Where has been this opposition to this concept once Baylor decided to do it when it comes to the new hoops facility, practice facilities, the stadium etc?

---

As a nonprofit, Baylor has to spend the money donated to it. Those who donate to the Baylor Bear Foundation, to specific departments or directly to building projects do so knowing that and often how their money money is going to be spent.

NIL, in most cases, is blindly throwing money in a slush fund -- and one not run by the university. There is literally no transparency in where your money is going or what it actually accomplished. It's also not tax deductable like standard university donations.

You continue to act like NIL is like any other donation and Baylor could just shift money over to fund it. That's not at all how this works.

NIL requires people to want to throw their money at recruits who may or may not ever play a down at your school. It's a much harder sell than any standard fundraising project because anything other than an actual name, image and likeness endorsement deal is a really stupid investment.

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

Division Street was founded by Phil Knight and is the #3 NIL Collective according to On3. So like Ohio State, they have money.

I don't think it's safe to assume that money had nothing to do with the late flip, even if Ohio State originally offered even more money. Money is a big part of the equation, but not the only part. But to assume money has nothing to do with anything is misguided.

If you don't believe money was a factor, then fine. We will disagree. But on that night he flipped, Oregon had the money. Baylor did not.

---

To reiterate, do you believe Oregon has more money to spend on NIL than Ohio State?

Separately, no one said money had "nothing" to do with it. What was said was that the move was likely more of a relationship move than anything else.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

Division Street was founded by Phil Knight and is the #3 NIL Collective according to On3. So like Ohio State, they have money.

I don't think it's safe to assume that money had nothing to do with the late flip, even if Ohio State originally offered even more money. Money is a big part of the equation, but not the only part. But to assume money has nothing to do with anything is misguided.

If you don't believe money was a factor, then fine. We will disagree. But on that night he flipped, Oregon had the money. Baylor did not.

---

To reiterate, do you believe Oregon has more money to spend on NIL than Ohio State?

Separately, no one said money had "nothing" to do with it. What was said was that the move was likely more of a relationship move than anything else.

---

OSU has the largest Sports budget in the nation and has for a while. This is what we are competing against.

A total of 220 student-athletes have engaged in 608 reported NIL activities with a total compensation value of $2.98 million. All three figures rank No. 1 nationally, according to Opendorse, the cutting edge services company hired by Ohio State to help its student-athletes with education and resource opportunities to maximize their NIL earning potential.





Ohio State claims No. 1 ranking in NIL earnings - Footballscoop


Texas A&M Boosters Spent Unfathomable Amount Of Money To Land No. 1 Recruiting Class, Per Report - BroBible

@No Quarterback...it is really odd how KSU manages to stay competitive in football over the years. I remember when they were worse then the Baylors of decades gones by. KSU was always in the famous Bottom 10 until Snyder arrived. We had ours but we canned him.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

@No Quarterback...it is really odd how KSU manages to stay competitive in football over the years. I remember when they were worse then the Baylors of decades gones by. KSU was always in the famous Bottom 10 until Snyder arrived. We had ours but we canned him.

---

Yeah, how did they keep Howard for several years?? He was ok waiting his turn. Us, if they don't get all the reps and start immediately they bolt.

I think there is a miscommunication here. I addressed the money issue in a previous response. What I am saying is that I believe that it is quite possible that Ohio State has more money overall than Oregon. It's also sort of non consequential, as Baylor's NIL is paltry compared to both. I believe money had a lot to do with the late flip. I hear arguments that there were relationships there that may have contributed to his flip. I happen to take more stock in the money argument than the relationship argument. Am I right? Maybe. Am I wrong. Maybe. But I'm not changing my mind.

I also think there have been too many flips and transfers recently from Baylor's program to simply chalk it down to primarily a relationship issue. It would be nice if that were the case, as it would make it easier for us to address the problem. But money talks. And it talks most every time.

Novasad is much better of financially at Oregon.

At some point, there is going to have to be an NIL cap, much like the salary cap in the NFL.
Now the big schools, the SEC and the Big 10 are not going to want an NIL cap, so it's going to take an act of Congress.
But that is the only way I see of "smaller markets" competing with Bama, UT, Ohio State and Oklahoma.
If it keeps going the way it's going, we don't have an alumni base that enjoys throwing money away.
(Translation: We don't have enough oil millionaires.)

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

bear2be2 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Baylor has been spending other people's money on athletics for decades including mine. Where has been this opposition to this concept once Baylor decided to do it when it comes to the new hoops facility, practice facilities, the stadium etc?

---

As a nonprofit, Baylor has to spend the money donated to it. Those who donate to the Baylor Bear Foundation, to specific departments or directly to building projects do so knowing that and often how their money money is going to be spent.

NIL, in most cases, is blindly throwing money in a slush fund -- and one not run by the university. There is literally no transparency in where your money is going or what it actually accomplished. It's also not tax deductable like standard university donations.

You continue to act like NIL is like any other donation and Baylor could just shift money over to fund it. That's not at all how this works.

NIL requires people to want to throw their money at recruits who may or may not ever play a down at your school. It's a much harder sell than any standard fundraising project because anything other than an actual name, image and likeness endorsement deal is a really stupid investment.

---

NIL requires people like T. Boone Pickens and Clayton Williams: Oil millionaires who don't give a rip, as long as their football program gets the dollars.

Please reference my post above.

Nor should it be. I want Baylor to win but not at any price.

bear2be2 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Baylor has been spending other people's money on athletics for decades including mine. Where has been this opposition to this concept once Baylor decided to do it when it comes to the new hoops facility, practice facilities, the stadium etc?

---

As a nonprofit, Baylor has to spend the money donated to it. Those who donate to the Baylor Bear Foundation, to specific departments or directly to building projects do so knowing that and often how their money money is going to be spent.

NIL, in most cases, is blindly throwing money in a slush fund -- and one not run by the university. There is literally no transparency in where your money is going or what it actually accomplished. It's also not tax deductable like standard university donations.

You continue to act like NIL is like any other donation and Baylor could just shift money over to fund it. That's not at all how this works.

NIL requires people to want to throw their money at recruits who may or may not ever play a down at your school. It's a much harder sell than any standard fundraising project because anything other than an actual name, image and likeness endorsement deal is a really stupid investment.

---

To be clear I have never said Baylor could fund NIL nor have I said any other university is funding NIL.

That said if the SCOTUS indicated in dicta I suppose (I have not read the opinion) that universities should be sharing their athletic revenues with the student athletes, I'm not sure how it would be illegal for a school to actually pay student athletes. I mean I suppose a state can pass a law making it illegal that would be struck down when potentially it reached SCOTUS.

I want baylor to win at any price short of committing crimes

There are several schools sprinkled around the P5 conferences, with similar NIL limitations as Baylor I'd think, that are presently competing at a higher level.

I just think NIL money comes with the idea that's it's basically a gift to help a decent program with competent leadership that you support and want to help make better. It's a personal choice if you can afford it and it's important to you.

I don't think that's where we are right now.

robby44 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think we are honest about NIL money.

If I had a son who was D1level talent. 4*, any position, and he was offered more NIL money at Baylor than any other university. Would I trust this staff (especially offense) to develop him?

I wouldn't.

And if he were a QB? I'd tell my son we can't afford Baylor's NIL offer.

To me, that's what we need to fix.

---

Exactly right.
Good kids want to play for coaches and programs that will elevate them and perhaps play for a championship. We don't offer that.

I wonder how Scott Drew is attracting all that talent? Its probably not because of NIL

Grimes and Bell are making NIL a non factor for us

---

As a former player, what do you think it would take in order to replace the QB coach? I don't understand why Aranda seems to be locked in on Bell.