Barry Switzer thought the same thoughts. Some guys just run really loose programs. Art was one of them.

OldSchoolBU said:

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some of you all complaining about the Oklahoma drill prior to games are going to be singing Matt Rhule's praises for doing it 3 years from now when it is late November and the weather is cold and Baylor beats someone important in front of a national TV audience. Football is a contact sport. You get better at making physical plays by being physical in practices and getting your mind ready for contact.

You all might want to start a ping pong message board or something a little less violent.

---

More fitting.

OldSchoolBU said:

---

some of you all complaining about the Oklahoma drill prior to games are going to be singing Matt Rhule's praises for doing it 3 years from now when it is late November and the weather is cold and Baylor beats someone important in front of a national TV audience. Football is a contact sport. You get better at making physical plays by being physical in practices and getting your mind ready for contact.

You all might want to start a horseshoes message board or something a little less violent.

---

Not even close. Doing it right now in pregame or days leading up to gameday is completely idiotic with our depleted roster. You can instill toughness while balancing the roster you have. Rhule didnt balance this and has further crushed the roster in the near term.

If he wants to do it in a year when we have a fuller roster and they have adjusted to the different style then have at it. Still not a good idea but it wouldn't be as stupid as doing it now.

Compounding said:

---

OldSchoolBU said:

---

some of you all complaining about the Oklahoma drill prior to games are going to be singing Matt Rhule's praises for doing it 3 years from now when it is late November and the weather is cold and Baylor beats someone important in front of a national TV audience. Football is a contact sport. You get better at making physical plays by being physical in practices and getting your mind ready for contact.

You all might want to start a horseshoes message board or something a little less violent.

---

Not even close. Doing it right now in pregame or days leading up to gameday is completely idiotic with our depleted roster. You can instill toughness while balancing the roster you have. Rhule didnt balance this and has further crushed the roster in the near term.

If he wants to do it in a year when we have a fuller roster and they have adjusted to the different style then have at it. Still not a good idea but it wouldn't be as stupid as doing it now.

---

Compounding is absolutely true in this regard.

BellCountyBear said:

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Y'all do realize that utsa is mostly a commuter school for morons that couldn't get accepted anywhere else?! I took a summer school class there once as I grew up in SA. I felt like I was back in high school. The fact that they even have a football team blows my mind!

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Obviously you never took a class at SMU

Yogi said:

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BearKamp said:

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For the young ones that never had to witness the Steele Era. Here is the clip of UNLV everyone refers to. I remember sitting in the stadium that game. These last couple of games have felt like bad memories of old times.

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Hey, Steele was just trying to "build an attitude."

If you really want to show kids how bad it was, show them a picture of Floyd Casey stadium on Homecoming Day in 1999. Colorado led 37-0 at the half and there may have been 5,000 people still inside the stadium at the half.

That was the worst atmosphere I can remember.

---

I think that was Texas Tech (but I could be wrong)

What I remember most about Beall was the home game against SMU where the Bears did not even make a FIRST DOWN until midway through the 3rd quarter.
The stands stood up and cheered.
For a first down.

The Beall era was horrid.

CorsicanaBear said:

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He's on track to keep up with Beall.

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Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

Pecos 45 said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

OldSchoolBU said:

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some of you all complaining about the Oklahoma drill prior to games are going to be singing Matt Rhule's praises for doing it 3 years from now when it is late November and the weather is cold and Baylor beats someone important in front of a national TV audience. Football is a contact sport. You get better at making physical plays by being physical in practices and getting your mind ready for contact.

You all might want to start a horseshoes message board or something a little less violent.

---

You trolling now brother.

The last thing you want to worry about in pre-game is injury right before the game.

Pale Rider said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

That's what worries me. We must win now, not three or four years down the road. Teaff understood that. After the success of the recent years, our fanbase and our conference will not tolerate less. Our AD will also be gone. We do not have the luxury of time that Rhule's stubborness seems to demand. Nobody here wants a reproduction of his program at Temple or Penn State Big Ten football. In three or four years we will have lost all hope of recruiting, sales of season tickets, contributions and our place in the Big XII conference.

Has this guy shown us anything in his demeanor or talk that assures us he can produce a winner? Cut a financial deal with him now and send him down the road. He will not win a game here this year and what will B Baylor have then?

Applemac_G4 said:

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Our last 0-2 Start was in 1999, Steele's first year, with the losses to BC and UNLV. That team ended up 1-10 (0-8)

Rhule has an opportunity to fill those shoes today.

For reference, to find the last winless Baylor football team you have to go back to Beall's 1969 team that went 0-10 (0-7)

---

BC was a missed field goal and UNLV... well we don't discuss UNLV. Point is, one made FG and one taken knee and Steele's reign might have not been a reign of terror.

OldSchoolBU said:

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Barry Switzer thought the same thoughts. Some guys just run really loose programs. Art was one of them.

---

Are you Rhule or the short fat guy tackling dummy guy

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

Of course in all fairness Coach Teaff's 73 team only won three games.

But that made the 74 season all the more "Miraculous!" The first days of "Glory!"

jstins said:

---

Applemac_G4 said:

---

Our last 0-2 Start was in 1999, Steele's first year, with the losses to BC and UNLV. That team ended up 1-10 (0-8)

Rhule has an opportunity to fill those shoes today.

For reference, to find the last winless Baylor football team you have to go back to Beall's 1969 team that went 0-10 (0-7)

---

BC was a missed field goal and UNLV... well we don't discuss UNLV. Point is, one made FG and one taken knee and Steele's reign might have not been a reign of terror.

---

Actually, our last 0-2 start was 2003 under Morriss. We lost to UAB at home and then got blown out at North Texas. Finished 3-8.

Stranger said:

---

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

That's what worries me. We must win now, not three or four years down the road. Teaff understood that. After the success of the recent years, our fanbase and our conference will not tolerate less. Our AD will also be gone. We do not have the luxury of time that Rhule's stubborness seems to demand. Nobody here wants a reproduction of his program at Temple or Penn State Big Ten football. In three or four years we will have lost all hope of recruiting, sales of season tickets, contributions and our place in the Big XII conference.

Has this guy shown us anything in his demeanor or talk that assures us he can produce a winner? Cut a financial deal with him now and send him down the road. He will not win a game here this year and what will B Baylor have then?

---

Just think how much better both lines might be if we had recruited a couple of JUCO kids for each side of the ball. It isn't like we didn't have the 'ships to give.

Napoleon Tyler was a blessing for CGT in the early years.

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

Teaff also brought in two JUCO players who had an immediate impact on W-L column, Charles Dancer at WR and Millard Neely (sic) at nose tackle.
But yes, you are right on, Rio.
Teaff won more games in his first season than Beall won in THREE YEARS.

Pale Rider said:

---

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

Of course in all fairness Coach Teaff's 73 team only won three games.

But that made the 74 season all the more "Miraculous!" The first days of "Glory!"

---

It's beginning to look like it will take a miracle to reach three wins this season. I believe that if Coach Teaff had made Steve Beard the featured back in '73 things would have turned out different. All the pieces were in place (minus Ron Burns and Scooter Reed on defense) to have made a bowl run.

Pecos 45 said:

---

RioRata said:

---

Pale Rider said:

---

Pecos 45 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

He's on track to keep up with Beall.

---

Preach it, brudda!

There are those of us who wandered in that wilderness, and can bear witness to what you say.
I believe it was worse than under Steele, but some may discount my memory because I'm an old man.

---

Yep, I began with the Beall era. Man was it a blessing when 1972 arrived!!

---

Bill Beall's final season (1971) ended in a 1-9 disaster (zero conference wins). Grant Teaff's first season (1972) was a miraculous 5-6 campaign with 3 conference wins.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

Teaff won with basically the same roster that Beall had. What was the difference? {cough}JUCOs{cough}

Teaff not only saw the need to build a program but also the need to win NOW. Why doesn't Matt Rhule see this same thing?

---

Teaff also brought in two JUCO players who had an immediate impact on W-L column, Charles Dancer at WR and Millard Neely (sic) at nose tackle.
But yes, you are right on, Rio.
Teaff won more games in his first season than Beall won in THREE YEARS.

---

Charlie Dancer is one of my all time favorite Bears. He turned out to be the right kid at the right time in program history.

OldSchoolBU said:

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this guy is going to win and win big at Baylor. It starts Saturday. I'll eat crow if I am wrong. I have a feeling we are going to see something we can hang our hat on starting Saturday and it will lead to winning the next 2 as well.

I'm calling my shot. 3-1 heading into Kansas State. It will make us scratch our heads even more as to what happened with Liberty. Enjoy the ride.

---

You want that Crow fried or baked? Or boiled?

I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

OldSchoolBU said:

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I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

---

I can get behind this post right here. I sure hope you're right about this Duke game!

OldSchoolBU said:

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I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

---

It won't matter how slow the Duke secondary is if our OC continues to only send one receiver down field and Zach's only other option is to eat the ball.

OldSchoolBU said:

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I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

---

I wish I could have seen you during the Kevin Steele years talking about "expecting" to beat UT or OU. Nothing we have seen so far in our first 2 games leads me to believe we will be competitive with Duke, let alone beat them. Duke just got done beating the **** out of Northwestern this past weekend. I'll be stunned if we come close to covering the line.

ColomboLQ said:

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OldSchoolBU said:

---

I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

---

I wish I could have seen you during the Kevin Steele years talking about "expecting" to beat UT or OU. Nothing we have seen so far in our first 2 games leads me to believe we will be competitive with Duke, let alone beat them. Duke just got done beating the **** out of Northwestern this past weekend. I'll be stunned if we come close to covering the line.

---

I'll be honest, I saw that UNLV game and thought "what kind of an idiot does that?" And then the 62-0 ass whipping in Waco versus UT and I said "this program is a joke." And it was a joke. Night and day different now. Rhule has been a head coach WITH SUCCESS. He actually knows what he is doing. He has a good staff with coaches that have other coaching options. We are not paying $350,000 or whatever we paid Steele. We have top notch facilities. If Rhule mimics anything close to Kevin Steele's results I will be the first to jump off the bandwagon. Kevin Steele put like 1 guy in the NFL during his time at Baylor. Rhule put 15 in his last 2 seasons.

Rhule won't have Steele like results. We will see progress this year. Liberty and UTSA are bad losses but UTSA is a likely bowl team. And Liberty is probably a top 10 FCS team. Doesn't excuse them but both of those teams would smoke that 1999 UNLV team.

Serious question how have his games thus far not been Steele like results?

PartyBear said:

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Serious question how have his games this far not been Steele like results?

---

Steele would have found more creative ways to lose?

I don't know we have been creative in finding ways to lose gimme games.

PartyBear said:

---

Serious question how have his games thus far not been Steele like results?

---

I've slept since the Steele era. I thought we played okay at Boston College. But the decision to go for it versus UNLV when the game was already won was complete ineptitude. Rhule has done nothing like that these first two weeks.

I'm giving him cred for recruiting very well under the circumstances. For attracting some accomplished guys on staff. For winning 20 games over the last 2 years at Temple. You put Kevin Steele at Temple under the same conditions as Rhule and you are looking at results similar to what Steele accomplished at Baylor under his 4 years.

These are all opinions. 2 games is WAY too small of a sample size. Let the year play out. Try to be supportive of these kids. Be supportive of Rhule because he will be our coach for a while. Let go of the notion that Art Briles was some innocent martyr in this whole deal and be ready to usher in a new era of Baylor football that will eventually result in championships just like the last one did.

Eventually? We don't have time for eventually and we should expect more. You brought up Briles. Briles took over after 11 years of the dark times took us bowling in year 3 and a 10 win season in 4. In his year 1 and 2 we won 4 games a piece and were competitive in almost all the rest. Hell Morriss won 3 games the first year after Steele one of which was against XII champ Colorado to open up conference play.

OldSchoolBU said:

---

ColomboLQ said:

---

OldSchoolBU said:

---

I admitted I was wrong. What do you want me to do flog myself?

I expect to beat Duke. We will beat Duke. The day I expect to lose to anyone on our schedule is the day I die. We better be putting game plans together to start heaping some hurt upon our enemies. Zach Smith picking apart that slow secondary all day long. Defense will step up.

---

I wish I could have seen you during the Kevin Steele years talking about "expecting" to beat UT or OU. Nothing we have seen so far in our first 2 games leads me to believe we will be competitive with Duke, let alone beat them. Duke just got done beating the **** out of Northwestern this past weekend. I'll be stunned if we come close to covering the line.

---

I'll be honest, I saw that UNLV game and thought "what kind of an idiot does that?" And then the 62-0 ass whipping in Waco versus UT and I said "this program is a joke." And it was a joke. Night and day different now. Rhule has been a head coach WITH SUCCESS. He actually knows what he is doing. He has a good staff with coaches that have other coaching options. We are not paying $350,000 or whatever we paid Steele. We have top notch facilities. If Rhule mimics anything close to Kevin Steele's results I will be the first to jump off the bandwagon. Kevin Steele put like 1 guy in the NFL during his time at Baylor. Rhule put 15 in his last 2 seasons.

Rhule won't have Steele like results. We will see progress this year. Liberty and UTSA are bad losses but UTSA is a likely bowl team. And Liberty is probably a top 10 FCS team. Doesn't excuse them but both of those teams would smoke that 1999 UNLV team.

---

I hope you're right, but you do realize that Steele never lost to an FCS team, right? And no, these teams would not smoke that 1999 UNLV team. Hell, the UTSA QB was a walk-on for crying out loud. Please just say that they were bad losses and leave it at that. Anything else and you begin to sound like you are justifying those losses when there is no justification for them.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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You really think CMR is anywhere near the same level of recruiting as CAB? Thats laughable.

---

Haven't seen him play, but Art/Bennett never recruited a player like this.

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/dj_artis_1050733.html

Did we need to give Art more time?

OldSchoolBU said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Serious question how have his games thus far not been Steele like results?

---

I've slept since the Steele era. I thought we played okay at Boston College. But the decision to go for it versus UNLV when the game was already won was complete ineptitude. Rhule has done nothing like that these first two weeks.

I'm giving him cred for recruiting very well under the circumstances. For attracting some accomplished guys on staff. For winning 20 games over the last 2 years at Temple. You put Kevin Steele at Temple under the same conditions as Rhule and you are looking at results similar to what Steele accomplished at Baylor under his 4 years.

These are all opinions. 2 games is WAY too small of a sample size. Let the year play out. Try to be supportive of these kids. Be supportive of Rhule because he will be our coach for a while. Let go of the notion that Art Briles was some innocent martyr in this whole deal and be ready to usher in a new era of Baylor football that will eventually result in championships just like the last one did.

---

This. No one's asking for an endorsement and wedding, but be better than the situation and accept that it''s not a binary choice between loving one and hating the other.

Would people like Rhule more if Art had left us cold and gone to another program? We wouldn't be discussing any of this and that's certainly what he was set to do. People need to accept the reality that Art didn't want to be at Baylor, love or hate is irrelevant. I loved watching Art's offense, but teams ultimately play like their coaches. I wished he''d have gone to the NFL and gotten humbled like Spurrier.

But that's not the point. We have sunk the money, have great facilities, in a great location and an impressive AD.

We need to become a program that can win regardless of the head coach.

OldSchool, I'm worried about you. While the rest of us are preparing ourselves mentally for the reality of an 0fer season, you're all in. I fear the weekly 50 point losses in conference will take even more of a toll on you because you aren't prepared.

You may have forgotten that Baylor has either spoiled great seasons (Kansas St, Oklahoma, Texas, TCU) or obliterated teams by 60 or 70 with the starters pulled (WVU, KU, ISU). I promise you those teams haven't forgotten and - smelling blood in the water already - will be looking to exact revenge in 2017.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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You really think CMR is anywhere near the same level of recruiting as CAB? Thats laughable.

---

Haven't seen him play, but Art/Bennett never recruited a player like this.

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/dj_artis_1050733.html

Did we need to give Art more time?

---

You are joking right? CAB recruited a future Heiseman trophy winner. You must be joking. Thanks for the chuckle.

The rest of you cannot point out one positive sign besides words words. I would bet Steele won more game with Roberts players his first year than CMR win with CAB leftovers.

Any takers or do you just talk a good game?