tmcats said:

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i'm taken by the fact that we have not heard a single denial from clemson or tallahassee. they could easily shut down all this blow with a wet towel statement. they have not. this suggests something is going on.

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No need to do so. ADs typically don't respond to every random Internet rumor. Especially when all those rumors just add to the convo they want to be having (pressure on the ACC). Their lack of any statement does not in any way suggest any of this is real.

It could be one big psy-ops operation by Florida State & Clemson to pressure the ACC.

historian said:

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It could be one big pay-ops operation by Florida State & Clemson to pressure the ACC.

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Yes, they also are keeping the big 12 as a last resort if the networks block them from the B10/SEC. Those two schols are fully commited on exiting regardless.

OsoCoreyell said:

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I'll believe it when I see it, but if it did happen, well that would pretty much cement the Power 3.

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A Power 3 would be much healthier for college football than a Power 2.

But folks in Austin and College Station (and other defection cities) would not be happy.

I don't think it'll ever happen. I believe it when I see it.

BearlyBeloved said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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I'll believe it when I see it, but if it did happen, well that would pretty much cement the Power 3.

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A Power 3 would be much healthier for college football than a Power 2.

But folks in Austin and College Station (and other defection cities) would not be happy.

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Boo hoo! If they're unhappy, everyone else will celebrate.

Big Ten, SEC unlikely to add Florida State if it leaves ACC & ACC survives, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. Big Ten & SEC don’t want FSU because adding FSU doesn’t make financial sense, no desire to expand & “they’ve been a disruptive partner,” sources said https://t.co/YhOPDC3O1k

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) July 16, 2024

SEC wants new territory. If they expand, it'll be UNC/NC State or UVa/VT

CorsicanaBear said:

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SEC not wanting FSU because they were "disruptive partners" seems odd given that they took UT, the absolute definition of a disruptive partner.

Perhaps they just can't tolerate more than one in the conference.

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If FSU was available in the market right now without the threat of legal retribution from the ACC (i.e. without a settlement in place), they would be in the P2 and any reporting to the contrary is just either legal/political conference speak or click bait. That being said, that does not mean that it's not true that there are some in the Big 12 who would love to have FSU/Clemson and/or believe that FSU/Clemson would join the Big 12.

Here are the official govt. reported payouts from each conference to its members for the year ended June 30, 2023:

B12

(A) BAYLOR UNIVERSITY 43,072,005
(B) IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY 42,190,473
(C) UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS 44,104,036
(D) KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY 45,038,935
(E) UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA 45,195,567
(F) OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY 43,821,197
(G) UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS 44,711,453
(H) TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY 43,663,496
(I) WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY 41,984,886
(J) TEXAS CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY 48,258,005


ACC (includes ACC network payout)

(A) BOSTON COLLEGE 43,775,117
(B) CLEMSON UNIVERSITY 46,549,033
(C) DUKE UNIVERSITY 45,485,338
(D) FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY 45,235,737
(E) GEORGIA INSTITUTE OF TECH 43,294,354
(F) NC STATE UNIVERSITY 44,693,428
(G) UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI 43,767,525
(H) UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA 46,850,044
(I) UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA 43,919,757
(J) VIRGINIA TECH 43,698,647
(K) WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY 44,516,141
(L) UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME 22,104,978
(M) UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH 45,677,735
(N) SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY 44,696,708
(O) UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE 45,208,128

Bear2014 said:

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SEC wants new territory. If they expand, it'll be UNC/NC State or UVa/VT

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Do they really want to expand further? Is that speculation or have the SEC leaders actually said something like that?

I would imagine Florida and USC are pretty opposed to FSU and Clemson, not that they get final say, but rest of SEC heavily recruits both states so might not be super enthused either. Texas is a massive state so A&M was told to pound sand and welcome Texas. Plus Texas is a marquee brand like Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, etc. FSU and Clemson are more recent risers. Do they billion dollar backers? I remember an article detailing FSU lacking a donor like Tyson chicken founder at Arkansas or Pilot gas at Tennessee, oil money at A&M, etc.

Florida is on record of supporting FSU's entry into the SEC the last time this issue came up after Mizzou and aggy joined. I don't think they would change their position although I wondered at the time why they felt that way.

They traditionally play Miami and FSU most seasons.

The Walton's money for Arkansas dwarfs a lot of SEC teams. It just hasn't been used wisely.

historian said:

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Bear2014 said:

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SEC wants new territory. If they expand, it'll be UNC/NC State or UVa/VT

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Do they really want to expand further? Is that speculation or have the SEC leaders actually said something like that?

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Popular internet speculation. Not as sensible speculation either, since brand on brand matchups matter more than "territory" in the world of streaming. Clemson vs Georgia, FSU vs Alabama - those are ratings monsters. UVa vs, well, anyone = not so much.

I missed that on Florida. Interesting. Maybe because they already play every year? Arkansas has more money than people realize but my point remains on FSU. They didn't start playing serious football till the 80s and lack the big pockets of other blue bloods and even many other P5/P4/P3 brethren.

Correct.

MT_Bear said:

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historian said:

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Bear2014 said:

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SEC wants new territory. If they expand, it'll be UNC/NC State or UVa/VT

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Do they really want to expand further? Is that speculation or have the SEC leaders actually said something like that?

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Popular internet speculation. Not as sensible speculation either, since brand on brand matchups matter more than "territory" in the world of streaming. Clemson vs Georgia, FSU vs Alabama - those are ratings monsters. UVa vs, well, anyone = not so much.

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This is exactly why the smoke around Clemson/FSU being excluded from the P2 makes no sense. It makes as much sense as the arguments against Oregon/Washington joining the B1G - sure, they took lower payouts because the alternative options were not attractive, but that realignment was inevitable after USC/UCLA joined the B1G.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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MT_Bear said:

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historian said:

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Bear2014 said:

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SEC wants new territory. If they expand, it'll be UNC/NC State or UVa/VT

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Do they really want to expand further? Is that speculation or have the SEC leaders actually said something like that?

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Popular internet speculation. Not as sensible speculation either, since brand on brand matchups matter more than "territory" in the world of streaming. Clemson vs Georgia, FSU vs Alabama - those are ratings monsters. UVa vs, well, anyone = not so much.

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This is exactly why the smoke around Clemson/FSU being excluded from the P2 makes no sense. It makes as much sense as the arguments against Oregon/Washington joining the B1G - sure, they took lower payouts because the alternative options were not attractive, but that realignment was inevitable after USC/UCLA joined the B1G.

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Right. And it's also true that of course the SEC/ B1G are going to say they're not interested right now. They don't want any hint of a TI claim from all the legal shenanigans. Hell, UW and UO weren't in any legal battles and the B1G said they weren't interested... until they were.

FSU for sure and most likely Clemson can both find a home in one of the P2. Right now is a quiet negotiating stage.

I suspect just like with Oregon and UW except that was with the B10, that Clemson and FSU will be invited to the SEC on a reduced rate basis right before they are about to announce a move to the XII. Like then with UW and O, the XII will actually be expecting something like this to occur and will promptly announce the 2-4 they will take from the ACC. The XII I think will end up with a good quality expansion.

Big 10 at 18 and holding out for ND. No FSU Clem to Big cause no room for. SEC maybe but Florida and SC have to OK it. Maybe SEC takes them but Big 12 wants them more. Agree some ACC teams headed our way. Which ones ?

chriscbear said:

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Big 10 at 18 and holding out for ND. No FSU Clem to Big cause no room for. SEC maybe but Florida and SC have to OK it. Maybe SEC takes them but Big 12 wants them more. Agree some ACC teams headed our way. Which ones ?

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Big 10 has plenty of room for FSU (or Miami) and probably Clemson. Sure, they want ND, but they'll make room for ND no matter if they're already at 18, or 20, or 22, or...

Florida has already publicly said they would welcome FSU in the past.

And besides, neither Florida or SC "have to" ok anything so long as the majority vote for it (same as with Aggy getting outvoted on UT).

MT_Bear said:

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chriscbear said:

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Big 10 at 18 and holding out for ND. No FSU Clem to Big cause no room for. SEC maybe but Florida and SC have to OK it. Maybe SEC takes them but Big 12 wants them more. Agree some ACC teams headed our way. Which ones ?

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Big 10 has plenty of room for FSU (or Miami) and probably Clemson. Sure, they want ND, but they'll make room for ND no matter if they're already at 18, or 20, or 22, or...

Florida has already publicly said they would welcome FSU in the past.

And besides, neither Florida or SC "have to" ok anything so long as the majority vote for it (same as with Aggy getting outvoted on UT).

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ND is a B1G lock at some point in the future - likely coupled with Stanford.

Neither Clemson nor FSU are AAU at -this- moment in time, but, if that changes - like it recently did with ND and Miami - it would be a gamechanger that would bring them into play for the B1G.

boognish_bear said:

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Big Ten, SEC unlikely to add Florida State if it leaves ACC & ACC survives, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. Big Ten & SEC don’t want FSU because adding FSU doesn’t make financial sense, no desire to expand & “they’ve been a disruptive partner,” sources said https://t.co/YhOPDC3O1k

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) July 16, 2024

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been a disruptive partner?!, did SEC not do a background check on the whorns?

Aberzombie1892 said:

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MT_Bear said:

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chriscbear said:

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Big 10 at 18 and holding out for ND. No FSU Clem to Big cause no room for. SEC maybe but Florida and SC have to OK it. Maybe SEC takes them but Big 12 wants them more. Agree some ACC teams headed our way. Which ones ?

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Big 10 has plenty of room for FSU (or Miami) and probably Clemson. Sure, they want ND, but they'll make room for ND no matter if they're already at 18, or 20, or 22, or...

Florida has already publicly said they would welcome FSU in the past.

And besides, neither Florida or SC "have to" ok anything so long as the majority vote for it (same as with Aggy getting outvoted on UT).

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ND is a B1G lock at some point in the future - likely coupled with Stanford.

Neither Clemson nor FSU are AAU at -this- moment in time, but, if that changes - like it recently did with ND and Miami - it would be a gamechanger that would bring them into play for the B1G.

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The B1G would likely take FSU (just like they took Nebraska while knowing full well they were about to vote them out of the AAU), but if they really want to live or die by that standard, that's why I listed Miami. Clemson I do think has a tougher road to the B1G.

I think you underestimate ND's stubbornness and lack of desire for the B1G though. The B1G has coveted them for decades and ND has pointedly avoided them. Doubt it makes a lick of difference for Stanford - I see that idea repeated often, but reality is that the Stanford/ ND series isn't very long, and ND doesn't care about it at all other than west coast exposure (which, if they did come to the B1G, they'd continue their series against USC and also get games at UCLA, UW, and UO).

chriscbear said:

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Big 10 at 18 and holding out for ND. No FSU Clem to Big cause no room for. SEC maybe but Florida and SC have to OK it. Maybe SEC takes them but Big 12 wants them more. Agree some ACC teams headed our way. Which ones ?

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Aggies had to approve the addition of the Cows even though they hated the idea. After a lot of arm twisting and who knows what else, they finally caved.

I don't see why people are so sure that any conference will eventually get ND. ND loves being independent and plans to remain that way.

boognish_bear said:

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Please try to tell me how the Big10 would be a better conference top to bottom in:

Football
Basketball
Baseball

Than this likely version of the Big12.. pic.twitter.com/jdRMua3kdZ

— CFB MZ 🌵 (@CFB_Memezone) July 11, 2024

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The Fingers and Toes Conference

I hope the Big 12 doesn't have divisions again. That e we hold be a huge mistake. If we are going to be spread out so widely over so many times zones at least have regional pods. That makes more sense and maintains rivalries.

Also: if we do add teams from the ACC I would like to see Pitt added. They already have a rivalry with West Virginia resulting in some great football games in recent years. Both schools agree: they have those games scheduled for the next several years already, almost as if they were conference mates.

BearlyBeloved said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Even if this is all just talk, Brett Yormark is a genius for floating all of this out there. He probably has had these conversations with all of these teams so there maybe something there. I do like the fact that ND doesn't want to be in the big10 or they would've already joined.

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Traditionally, ND is interested only in a conference that could be named The Big 1.

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I agree. ND will remain Independent even for less money. The amount of money for them is reaching a point where 10 to 15 million a year is not worth giving up the control that being an Ind allows them.

I know the UT people cannot understand that logic, as money is everything to them. But, for ND a NBC contract in the 50 to 60 million a year would be preferable to a 68 to 78 million in thr BIG or SEC. You might see ND's other sports in the B12 ultimately as ACC flounders.

That is where I would go if I were Youmark, how to cut a deal with ND that allows them to remain IND but gives their other sports security and even profitability?

Maybe ND to play a minimum of 5 Big 12 teams a year in football ?

chriscbear said:

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Maybe ND to play a minimum of 5 Big 12 teams a year in football ?

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That is what they do in the ACC, so why not? If B12 is good enough to keep them eligible for the Playoff, it should be fine. They can get more exposure than the ACC in the B12.

the sec not taking fsu after bringing texas claiming the former "disruptive" is certainly irony on steroids.

all that matters today, history and revisionism aside, is that the b12 will be equal to the b10 and approaching sec status if clemson and fsu are lured into the league.

tmcats said:

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the sec not taking fsu after bringing texas claiming the former "disruptive" is certainly irony on steroids.

all that matters today, history and revisionism aside, is that the b12 will be equal to the b10 and approaching sec status if clemson and fsu are lured into the league.

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I said for years, Florida will not allow FSU or Miami into the SEC. UF runs the State. People said money talks, not in the SEC there is so much money there that other things that other Conferences don't have the luxury of addressing. SEC don't need any other schools, including Texas, to print money.