Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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Chuckroast said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

When you're playing high major college football, context really doesn't matter. No schedule you could possibly play in any of the power four conferences is weak enough to **** on an 11-win season and a trip to a New Year's bowl game (which would be a playoff appearance in today's landscape). This is universally true IMO, but it's especially so at Baylor University.

---

Nonsense.

the three non-con wins were SFA, UTSA and Rice.
in conference every team not named OU or Baylor finished 5-4 (or lower) in conference and 8-5 overall (or lower).

That year the B12 was Hot Garbage.

context ALWAYS matters.

---

The Big 12 was just as mediocre in the many of the Briles years -- our rise conveniently coincided with down periods for both Texas and OU. And we played absolute **** noncon schedules every year in those days. I don't remember seeing these same criticisms on Baylor boards then or now about those teams.

To win 11-games in a regular season at Baylor, you have to go a minimum of 8-1 in Big 12 play. I don't care how bad the Big 12 supposedly is. It's never bad enough to take that for granted or to spend energy dissecting the impressiveness of the accomplishment.

Every double-digit win that Baylor has had in the last two decades was a great season. No qualifications or apologies are necessary for any of them. Only a fool would nitpick a season that ended with Baylor ranked in the top 15 nationally.

---

2013: Baylor scored 681, allowed 306
2014: Baylor scored 627, allowed 332
2015: Baylor scored 625, allowed 368
2019: Baylor scored 471, allowed 277

the seasonal point differential is strong evidence

---

Strong evidence of what? If you want to argue that 2019 team wasn't good, just come out and say it. You'll look like an idiot.

---

Name calling proves nothing. It simply makes you look bad.

most folks understand that 21 point wins are generally more impressive than 3 point wins.
if you don't see it, so be it.

p.s. being adamant doesn't help you win on the internet. Go get a beer or some exercise.

---

So, again, strong evidence of what?

No one here has argued that our 2019 team was better than Briles' best teams. The only argument is that the 2019 team had a great season. If you want to disagree with that, come out and say it. But understand that doing so puts you at odds with every objectively drawn conclusion on that team (both by the human rankings and the computer power ranking services).

Our 2019 team was one of the five to 10 best teams Baylor has ever fielded. Those looking for reasons to discount its accomplishments are doing so with a clear agenda.

bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

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Bearknuckle said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

When you're playing high major college football, context really doesn't matter. No schedule you could possibly play in any of the power four conferences is weak enough to **** on an 11-win season and a trip to a New Year's bowl game (which would be a playoff appearance in today's landscape). This is universally true IMO, but it's especially so at Baylor University.

---

Nonsense.

the three non-con wins were SFA, UTSA and Rice.
in conference every team not named OU or Baylor finished 5-4 (or lower) in conference and 8-5 overall (or lower).

That year the B12 was Hot Garbage.

context ALWAYS matters.

---

The Big 12 was just as mediocre in the many of the Briles years -- our rise conveniently coincided with down periods for both Texas and OU. And we played absolute **** noncon schedules every year in those days. I don't remember seeing these same criticisms on Baylor boards then or now about those teams.

To win 11-games in a regular season at Baylor, you have to go a minimum of 8-1 in Big 12 play. I don't care how bad the Big 12 supposedly is. It's never bad enough to take that for granted or to spend energy dissecting the impressiveness of the accomplishment.

Every double-digit win that Baylor has had in the last two decades was a great season. No qualifications or apologies are necessary for any of them. Only a fool would nitpick a season that ended with Baylor ranked in the top 15 nationally.

---

2013: Baylor scored 681, allowed 306
2014: Baylor scored 627, allowed 332
2015: Baylor scored 625, allowed 368
2019: Baylor scored 471, allowed 277

the seasonal point differential is strong evidence

---

Strong evidence of what? If you want to argue that 2019 team wasn't good, just come out and say it. You'll look like an idiot.

---

Name calling proves nothing. It simply makes you look bad.

most folks understand that 21 point wins are generally more impressive than 3 point wins.
if you don't see it, so be it.

p.s. being adamant doesn't help you win on the internet. Go get a beer or some exercise.

---

So, again, strong evidence of what?

No one here has argued that our 2019 team was better than Briles' best teams. The only argument is that the 2019 team had a great season. If you want to disagree with that, come out and say it. But understand that doing so puts you at odds with every objectively drawn conclusion on that team (both by the human rankings and the computer power ranking services).

Our 2019 team was one of the five to 10 best teams Baylor has ever fielded. Those looking for reasons to discount its accomplishments are doing so with a clear agenda.

---

or………people who are using it to prop up the greatness of Matt Rhule as a CFB HC might be reaching.

because your binary positioning isn't the universe of available options.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

When you're playing high major college football, context really doesn't matter. No schedule you could possibly play in any of the power four conferences is weak enough to **** on an 11-win season and a trip to a New Year's bowl game (which would be a playoff appearance in today's landscape). This is universally true IMO, but it's especially so at Baylor University.

---

Nonsense.

the three non-con wins were SFA, UTSA and Rice.
in conference every team not named OU or Baylor finished 5-4 (or lower) in conference and 8-5 overall (or lower).

That year the B12 was Hot Garbage.

context ALWAYS matters.

---

The Big 12 was just as mediocre in the many of the Briles years -- our rise conveniently coincided with down periods for both Texas and OU. And we played absolute **** noncon schedules every year in those days. I don't remember seeing these same criticisms on Baylor boards then or now about those teams.

To win 11-games in a regular season at Baylor, you have to go a minimum of 8-1 in Big 12 play. I don't care how bad the Big 12 supposedly is. It's never bad enough to take that for granted or to spend energy dissecting the impressiveness of the accomplishment.

Every double-digit win that Baylor has had in the last two decades was a great season. No qualifications or apologies are necessary for any of them. Only a fool would nitpick a season that ended with Baylor ranked in the top 15 nationally.

---

2013: Baylor scored 681, allowed 306
2014: Baylor scored 627, allowed 332
2015: Baylor scored 625, allowed 368
2019: Baylor scored 471, allowed 277

the seasonal point differential is strong evidence

---

Strong evidence of what? If you want to argue that 2019 team wasn't good, just come out and say it. You'll look like an idiot.

---

Name calling proves nothing. It simply makes you look bad.

most folks understand that 21 point wins are generally more impressive than 3 point wins.
if you don't see it, so be it.

p.s. being adamant doesn't help you win on the internet. Go get a beer or some exercise.

---

So, again, strong evidence of what?

No one here has argued that our 2019 team was better than Briles' best teams. The only argument is that the 2019 team had a great season. If you want to disagree with that, come out and say it. But understand that doing so puts you at odds with every objectively drawn conclusion on that team (both by the human rankings and the computer power ranking services).

Our 2019 team was one of the five to 10 best teams Baylor has ever fielded. Those looking for reasons to discount its accomplishments are doing so with a clear agenda.

---

or………people who are using it to prop up the greatness of Matt Rhule as a CFB HC might be reaching.

because your binary positioning isn't the universe of available options.

---

You're just not going to answer a direct question are you.

Matt Rhule is one of two Baylor head coaches ever to win 11 regular-season games in a season. That list might grow by one -- Grant Teaff in 1980 -- if they had played 12 regular-season games before the 2000s.

If you have strong opinions on the 2019 season and why it wasn't actually impressive, feel free to share them.

bear2be2 said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

I have no problem giving Aranda credit for 2021. The problem is we haven't come close to reaching that level since and have shown no signs whatsoever of returning to it any time in the near future. So what happened five seasons ago isn't particularly relevant when judging where our program stands and what we're likely to be going forward with Aranda.

---

This is the fourth season since '21, not the 5th, and last year (the 3rd) was a 8 win season with a six game win streak. You have to let this season play out before you put a fork in Dave.

Bearknuckle said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

As to your last paragraph. Aranda's Baylor teams have about 6-7 wins right now over top 25 teams. About 5 of which are wins over top 10 teams. The wins over top 10 teams occurred in 21.

Ladies and gentlemen- isn't it time to put the Lil Mattie to PSU thread to bed? Tired of looking at it - please start a new thread to keep this argument, or whatever it is, going. Thank you kindly.

WA Jim said:

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Ladies and gentlemen- isn't it time to put the Lil Mattie to PSU thread to bed? Tired of looking at it - please start a new thread to keep this argument, or whatever it is, going. Thank you kindly.

---

I think I heard today that little Matty might be heading over to State College to rebuild those stumbling bumbling Nittany Lions, whatever they are.

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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CaliBear00 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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CaliBear00 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Matt is a good football coach.

He's far from an elite football coach.

---

No one looks elite coaching at Temple and resurrecting a scandal-ridden program with looming NCAA penalties like 2017 Baylor. Come on.

---

Ask others, outside of Baylor fans, about Aranda and they believe he is the right fit and level of success for this school and location. There are always reasons.

---

Except that Art Briles and Matt Rhule proved that isn't true.

---

Prove??? Time out. Baylor has been playing football since 1900 and is .500. Not exactly a power. You want to really get into where Baylor sits in the world of College Football? You make it sound like Briles and Rhule had dynasties that were challenging Bear Bryant.

• Briles had 4 double digit win seasons, 2 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Rhule has 1 double digit win season, 0 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Aranda has 1 double digit win season, 1 conference championship and 1 CFB Bowl win.

That is it since 1994, that is 31 years. Briles had a nice run going before imploding on its selF. Geez, you guys talk like Briles and Rhule made Baylor Notre Dame. They didn't. Baylor is and was what is always was, average with a blip of good seasons here and there.

---

It is hilarious to me that you use our program's history to excuse mediocrity from our current head coach and ignore Iowa State's history -- which is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY worse than ours -- when trashing Matt Campbell, who has been better by almost every measure than Aranda.

---

Who excused the current Coach? I said he is in the wrong place and should be at an academy where other factors are taking into consideration. Aranda cannot take Baylor where the fans want to go. Now, whether he is taking them where the Administration wants to go is worth a discussion.

As for Campbell, he and Aranda are in the same league. Campbell for all the hype has never won the Conference, has 1 CFB bowl game (a win, he gets credit there) in his ten years at Ames. His record of success is similar to Aranda.

Would you like to have that conversation on using the program's history to justify a Coach?

Bearknuckle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

I have no problem giving Aranda credit for 2021. The problem is we haven't come close to reaching that level since and have shown no signs whatsoever of returning to it any time in the near future. So what happened five seasons ago isn't particularly relevant when judging where our program stands and what we're likely to be going forward with Aranda.

---

This is the fourth season since '21, not the 5th, and last year (the 3rd) was a 8 win season with a six game win streak. You have to let this season play out before you put a fork in Dave.

---

And we've already failed to meet any reasonable goals for this season. We still have games left, but for many Baylor fans, this season is over for for all intents and purposes. I'm already talking about 2026 when talking about returning to relevance in the Big 12 title discussion because we didn't come close to achieving it this season.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

CaliBear00 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

CaliBear00 said:

---

Dia del DougO said:

---

Matt is a good football coach.

He's far from an elite football coach.

---

No one looks elite coaching at Temple and resurrecting a scandal-ridden program with looming NCAA penalties like 2017 Baylor. Come on.

---

Ask others, outside of Baylor fans, about Aranda and they believe he is the right fit and level of success for this school and location. There are always reasons.

---

Except that Art Briles and Matt Rhule proved that isn't true.

---

Prove??? Time out. Baylor has been playing football since 1900 and is .500. Not exactly a power. You want to really get into where Baylor sits in the world of College Football? You make it sound like Briles and Rhule had dynasties that were challenging Bear Bryant.

• Briles had 4 double digit win seasons, 2 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Rhule has 1 double digit win season, 0 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Aranda has 1 double digit win season, 1 conference championship and 1 CFB Bowl win.

That is it since 1994, that is 31 years. Briles had a nice run going before imploding on its selF. Geez, you guys talk like Briles and Rhule made Baylor Notre Dame. They didn't. Baylor is and was what is always was, average with a blip of good seasons here and there.

---

It is hilarious to me that you use our program's history to excuse mediocrity from our current head coach and ignore Iowa State's history -- which is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY worse than ours -- when trashing Matt Campbell, who has been better by almost every measure than Aranda.

---

Who excused the current Coach? I said he is in the wrong place and should be at an academy where other factors are taking into consideration. Aranda cannot take Baylor where the fans want to go. Now, whether he is taking them where the Administration wants to go is worth a discussion.

As for Campbell, he and Aranda are in the same league. Campbell for all the hype has never won the Conference, has 1 CFB bowl game (a win, he gets credit there) and has been ranked once in his ten years at Ames. His record of success is similar to Aranda.

Would you like to have that conversation on using the program's history to justify a Coach?

---

Only one Coach in our history has taken Baylor to where our fans want to go.

bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

When you're playing high major college football, context really doesn't matter. No schedule you could possibly play in any of the power four conferences is weak enough to **** on an 11-win season and a trip to a New Year's bowl game (which would be a playoff appearance in today's landscape). This is universally true IMO, but it's especially so at Baylor University.

---

Nonsense.

the three non-con wins were SFA, UTSA and Rice.
in conference every team not named OU or Baylor finished 5-4 (or lower) in conference and 8-5 overall (or lower).

That year the B12 was Hot Garbage.

context ALWAYS matters.

---

The Big 12 was just as mediocre in the many of the Briles years -- our rise conveniently coincided with down periods for both Texas and OU. And we played absolute **** noncon schedules every year in those days. I don't remember seeing these same criticisms on Baylor boards then or now about those teams.

To win 11-games in a regular season at Baylor, you have to go a minimum of 8-1 in Big 12 play. I don't care how bad the Big 12 supposedly is. It's never bad enough to take that for granted or to spend energy dissecting the impressiveness of the accomplishment.

Every double-digit win that Baylor has had in the last two decades was a great season. No qualifications or apologies are necessary for any of them. Only a fool would nitpick a season that ended with Baylor ranked in the top 15 nationally.

---

2013: Baylor scored 681, allowed 306
2014: Baylor scored 627, allowed 332
2015: Baylor scored 625, allowed 368
2019: Baylor scored 471, allowed 277

the seasonal point differential is strong evidence

---

Strong evidence of what? If you want to argue that 2019 team wasn't good, just come out and say it. You'll look like an idiot.

---

Name calling proves nothing. It simply makes you look bad.

most folks understand that 21 point wins are generally more impressive than 3 point wins.
if you don't see it, so be it.

p.s. being adamant doesn't help you win on the internet. Go get a beer or some exercise.

---

So, again, strong evidence of what?

No one here has argued that our 2019 team was better than Briles' best teams. The only argument is that the 2019 team had a great season. If you want to disagree with that, come out and say it. But understand that doing so puts you at odds with every objectively drawn conclusion on that team (both by the human rankings and the computer power ranking services).

Our 2019 team was one of the five to 10 best teams Baylor has ever fielded. Those looking for reasons to discount its accomplishments are doing so with a clear agenda.

---

or………people who are using it to prop up the greatness of Matt Rhule as a CFB HC might be reaching.

because your binary positioning isn't the universe of available options.

---

You're just not going to answer a direct question are you.

Matt Rhule is one of two Baylor head coaches ever to win 11 regular-season games in a season. That list might grow by one -- Grant Teaff in 1980 -- if they had played 12 regular-season games before the 2000s.

If you have strong opinions on the 2019 season and why it wasn't actually impressive, feel free to share them.

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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CaliBear00 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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CaliBear00 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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Matt is a good football coach.

He's far from an elite football coach.

---

No one looks elite coaching at Temple and resurrecting a scandal-ridden program with looming NCAA penalties like 2017 Baylor. Come on.

---

Ask others, outside of Baylor fans, about Aranda and they believe he is the right fit and level of success for this school and location. There are always reasons.

---

Except that Art Briles and Matt Rhule proved that isn't true.

---

Prove??? Time out. Baylor has been playing football since 1900 and is .500. Not exactly a power. You want to really get into where Baylor sits in the world of College Football? You make it sound like Briles and Rhule had dynasties that were challenging Bear Bryant.

• Briles had 4 double digit win seasons, 2 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Rhule has 1 double digit win season, 0 conference championships and 0 BCS/CFB Bowl wins.
• Aranda has 1 double digit win season, 1 conference championship and 1 CFB Bowl win.

That is it since 1994, that is 31 years. Briles had a nice run going before imploding on its selF. Geez, you guys talk like Briles and Rhule made Baylor Notre Dame. They didn't. Baylor is and was what is always was, average with a blip of good seasons here and there.

---

It is hilarious to me that you use our program's history to excuse mediocrity from our current head coach and ignore Iowa State's history -- which is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY worse than ours -- when trashing Matt Campbell, who has been better by almost every measure than Aranda.

---

Who excused the current Coach? I said he is in the wrong place and should be at an academy where other factors are taking into consideration. Aranda cannot take Baylor where the fans want to go. Now, whether he is taking them where the Administration wants to go is worth a discussion.

As for Campbell, he and Aranda are in the same league. Campbell for all the hype has never won the Conference, has 1 CFB bowl game (a win, he gets credit there) and has been ranked once in his ten years at Ames. His record of success is similar to Aranda.

Would you like to have that conversation on using the program's history to justify a Coach?

---

If our history was as pitiful as Iowa State's, it would be worth a conversation. Fortunately, it's not.

With Campbell's success there, Iowa State is still more than 100 games under .500 for its history. He is responsible for both of that program's best seasons ever and -- by far -- the longest stretch of winning football in its history. I don't know where you got your ranking stat, but he is responsible for seven of Iowa State's 17 AP rankings in program history, including the two highest and three of the top four. He's got two top-15 finishes at a school that only has two other top-25 finishes in its history.

Your weird agenda against Campbell is weird.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

Ask yourself. If Rhule was in year 9 here at Baylor would our program be better off than 6 years under Aranda?

Hell yes.

The Campbell hate is strange. The dude only has 2 losing seasons in a decade (might have to double check that). Might be because people don't truly know how bad the program was prior to his arrival. Easily one of the worst P4 programs when it comes to all time results.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

Ask yourself. If Rhule was in year 9 here at Baylor would our program be better off than 6 years under Aranda?

Hell yes.

---

Please list each program that has ever seen a Year 9 of Rhule.
We will wait for that list.

He is a meandering mercenary who left Baylor with massive roster holes. Some solid players but also huge issues due to his constant job flirtations.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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Chuckroast said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

When you're playing high major college football, context really doesn't matter. No schedule you could possibly play in any of the power four conferences is weak enough to **** on an 11-win season and a trip to a New Year's bowl game (which would be a playoff appearance in today's landscape). This is universally true IMO, but it's especially so at Baylor University.

---

Nonsense.

the three non-con wins were SFA, UTSA and Rice.
in conference every team not named OU or Baylor finished 5-4 (or lower) in conference and 8-5 overall (or lower).

That year the B12 was Hot Garbage.

context ALWAYS matters.

---

The Big 12 was just as mediocre in the many of the Briles years -- our rise conveniently coincided with down periods for both Texas and OU. And we played absolute **** noncon schedules every year in those days. I don't remember seeing these same criticisms on Baylor boards then or now about those teams.

To win 11-games in a regular season at Baylor, you have to go a minimum of 8-1 in Big 12 play. I don't care how bad the Big 12 supposedly is. It's never bad enough to take that for granted or to spend energy dissecting the impressiveness of the accomplishment.

Every double-digit win that Baylor has had in the last two decades was a great season. No qualifications or apologies are necessary for any of them. Only a fool would nitpick a season that ended with Baylor ranked in the top 15 nationally.

---

2013: Baylor scored 681, allowed 306
2014: Baylor scored 627, allowed 332
2015: Baylor scored 625, allowed 368
2019: Baylor scored 471, allowed 277

the seasonal point differential is strong evidence

---

Strong evidence of what? If you want to argue that 2019 team wasn't good, just come out and say it. You'll look like an idiot.

---

Name calling proves nothing. It simply makes you look bad.

most folks understand that 21 point wins are generally more impressive than 3 point wins.
if you don't see it, so be it.

p.s. being adamant doesn't help you win on the internet. Go get a beer or some exercise.

---

So, again, strong evidence of what?

No one here has argued that our 2019 team was better than Briles' best teams. The only argument is that the 2019 team had a great season. If you want to disagree with that, come out and say it. But understand that doing so puts you at odds with every objectively drawn conclusion on that team (both by the human rankings and the computer power ranking services).

Our 2019 team was one of the five to 10 best teams Baylor has ever fielded. Those looking for reasons to discount its accomplishments are doing so with a clear agenda.

---

or………people who are using it to prop up the greatness of Matt Rhule as a CFB HC might be reaching.

because your binary positioning isn't the universe of available options.

---

You're just not going to answer a direct question are you.

Matt Rhule is one of two Baylor head coaches ever to win 11 regular-season games in a season. That list might grow by one -- Grant Teaff in 1980 -- if they had played 12 regular-season games before the 2000s.

If you have strong opinions on the 2019 season and why it wasn't actually impressive, feel free to share them.

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

You have yet to explicitly lay out a position -- nuanced or otherwise -- on our 2019 season. Likely because you know the position you hold would make you look dumb, based on the facts at hand.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

Ask yourself. If Rhule was in year 9 here at Baylor would our program be better off than 6 years under Aranda?

Hell yes.

---

Absolutely. It's not even a question.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

Ask yourself. If Rhule was in year 9 here at Baylor would our program be better off than 6 years under Aranda?

Hell yes.

---

Please list each program that has ever seen a Year 9 of Rhule.
We will wait for that list.

He is a meandering mercenary who left Baylor with massive roster holes. Some solid players but also huge issues due to his constant job flirtations.

---

That wasn't the question I posed to you. Typical response from you

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Again, folks aren't required to amend their nuanced positions because you can't comprehend them.

Your time would be better served by working on reading comprehension rather than on demanding people simplify their messages to your level of understanding.

---

Ask yourself. If Rhule was in year 9 here at Baylor would our program be better off than 6 years under Aranda?

Hell yes.

---

Please list each program that has ever seen a Year 9 of Rhule.
We will wait for that list.

He is a meandering mercenary who left Baylor with massive roster holes. Some solid players but also huge issues due to his constant job flirtations.

---

That wasn't the question I posed to you. Typical response from you

---

I rejected your question because you based it upon a nonsense premise. I expressly pointed out the nonsense premise.

Want answers, try asking questions that are not nonsense.

You should play for the Dodgers. You're excellent at ducking.

Never forget:

"Scrubby little Baylor..."

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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bear2be2 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Y'all are just silly.. Rhule Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe Nebraska would like Scott Frost back?

That was a hella performance by him in Waco yesterday.

---

Rhule is remembered for that one magical season. It's true we had a great record, but we were not a dominant team. We never beat a ranked opponent, won a bunch of very close games some of which were against teams without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and that was probably the weakest Big 12 conference in memory - it was so down that year. Our team was manhandled by Georgia's 2nd string in a game that meant everything to us and very little to them. We had a good team with a great record. They were more indicative of 9-4 or 8-5 team in a normal year of competition.

Rhule is remembered as a conference championship coach my so many because of one single year where all the stars were aligned and yet we still didn't win the championship.

Recruiting was not elevated after that season, and he got out while the getting was good. To me, his tenure was a letdown after the Briles years … but that was obviously not all on him. He was a good coach, but I wasn't disappointed when we parted ways.

---

we went to OT with Tech (4-8) and TCU (5-7) and only beat WVU (5-7) 17 to 14.

We were far from dominant but you're a hater if you point that out, lmao.

---

We also beat the **** out of Kansas State and Oklahoma State on the road, smothered Texas in Waco and lost two games to a top-10 Oklahoma team by a combined 10 points, but those things are consistently ignored by those who try to push a silly narrative that every win was a nailbiter and we weren't actually good that season.

---

I will give you that Rhule is an above average coach, but he still did not beat a ranked team that year. We went to the Cotton Bowl not beating 1 ranked team. Would you cut Aranda the same slack?

---

I don't care who you beat. When you win 11 games, you've done a hell of a job. I would never under any circumstances criticize a double-digit win season. Coaches/teams don't luck into those. Every single one is an accomplishment, with no qualification necessary.

---

Elm Mott HS won ten games two years ago. Competition wasn't fierce.

Context matters.

---

Where is elm Mott high school?

PartyBear said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

As to your last paragraph. Aranda's Baylor teams have about 6-7 wins right now over top 25 teams. About 5 of which are wins over top 10 teams. The wins over top 10 teams occurred in 21.

---

He's at 5 right now, all in '21 as you note. That was my point about a win streak building momentum - it would include at least one new ranked win (Utah).

He has a couple more though if you are looking at top 25 teams we have defeated. Those 5 were top 10 teams.

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

I have no problem giving Aranda credit for 2021. The problem is we haven't come close to reaching that level since and have shown no signs whatsoever of returning to it any time in the near future. So what happened five seasons ago isn't particularly relevant when judging where our program stands and what we're likely to be going forward with Aranda.

---

Our team last year by the end of the year was probably on par with Rhule's 2019 team. The record may not have been as good because of our slow start, but the competition was also better.

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

I have no problem giving Aranda credit for 2021. The problem is we haven't come close to reaching that level since and have shown no signs whatsoever of returning to it any time in the near future. So what happened five seasons ago isn't particularly relevant when judging where our program stands and what we're likely to be going forward with Aranda.

---

Our team last year by the end of the year was probably on par with Rhule's 2019 team. The record may not have been as good because of our slow start, but the competition was also better.

---

The competition wasn't better. The 2019 team played a tougher schedule than last year's team did. All metrics that measure such things had our 2019 team way ahead of last year's.

Chuckroast said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearknuckle said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Are you under the impression there were a lot of people unhappy with Aranda during our Sugar Bowl season?

The problem fans have with Aranda is that he's tanked the standard of our program to the point where such seasons/runs a pipe dream. Everyone would be happy with him if he proved us all wrong and had another such season. Unfortunately for him, he's likely run out of mulligans at Baylor.

---

'21 showed us that Dave could hit as high as high as any Baylor coach ever had, because he deserves full credit for it.

The need many have here to somehow give Rhule *more* credit than Dave for '21 is utterly, hopelessly asinine: '21 flat out doesn't happen if not for the additions of Ika, Gall, Doyle and Estrada, or without moving Abram from LB to RB and slimming Pitre down to his natural weight and putting him in his natural position at STAR.

Dave gets credit for all of that, not Matt Rhule. It's frankly embarrassing how some folks here contort to avoid giving Dave credit for '21. From what I've seen it's usually done by folks who insist that Dave is not HC material and they use their claim that he won with Rhule's team as a major piece of evidence. A circular logic circle jerk. Sad!

If Dave goes 8-5, whatever variant of that record it proves to be, he's most likely getting another year. If he goes 9-4 this season, it's beyond any doubt. Any version of 7-6 puts the situation in question though, and I believe anything at 6-7 or worse and he's done at Baylor.

But my expectation for the rest of the season is 8-5 and I don't think 9-4 is impossible...even though Utah is certainly a tall task ahead. On the plus side, if Dave secures his 6th win vs a Top 25 opponent at Baylor's helm, I think fanbase momentum will bounce back in a big way. I mean heck, he'll have 3x as many Ranked Wins as the glorious Matt Rhule - who wouldn't be excited about that?!

---

I have no problem giving Aranda credit for 2021. The problem is we haven't come close to reaching that level since and have shown no signs whatsoever of returning to it any time in the near future. So what happened five seasons ago isn't particularly relevant when judging where our program stands and what we're likely to be going forward with Aranda.

---

Our team last year by the end of the year was probably on par with Rhule's 2019 team. The record may not have been as good because of our slow start, but the competition was also better.

---

I agree with this assessment.

Can he do it consistently? Personally, I think the guy would be happier at West Point, Annapolis, Air Force or even Coast Guard. Those places would take his level of winning and value that he is more about molding solid people.

bear2be2 said:

---

Chuckroast said:

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Our team last year by the end of the year was probably on par with Rhule's 2019 team. The record may not have been as good because of our slow start, but the competition was also better.

---

The competition wasn't better. The 2019 team played a tougher schedule than last year's team did. All metrics that measure such things had our 2019 team way ahead of last year's.

---

ESPN's Strength of Record rankings
BU19: 16 (OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice)
BU24: 39 (OOC: Tarleton, Utah, AF)

The discrepancy there is the 3 extra wins and the weighting of ESPN's "Game Control" metric among others which is pretty wonky IMO: ex.during the win streak last season those games were rarely if ever in doubt beyond the 1st quarter with the exception of TCU.


ESPN's Strength of Schedule rankings
BU19: 46
BU24: 48

Their schedules were of very similar difficulty but inverted: 19's season was soft up front and got harder; 24's season started out hard and got easier in the second half.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/fpi/_/view/resume/season/2019
https://www.espn.com/college-football/fpi/_/view/resume/season/2024

Both things are true

Matt Campbell is a good coach.
Matt Campbell has an incredible PR team that makes everyone think he's an incredible coach.

Stats can mislead. Saying we beat x number of top 25 teams or x number of top 10 teams means they were ranked that high when we played them and by the end of the season there were not even in the top 25.

Auburn this year is a classic example. And 2019 teams, Chuckroast, were much stronger competition than today.

It is pretty obvious which schedule was tougher between 2019 and 2024:

• 2019 OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at kickoff (OU)
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at end of season (OU)
• 2024 OOC: Tarleton, Utah, Air Force
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at kickoff (UU, ISU, BYU)
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at end of season (CU, ISU, BYU)

Bearknuckle said:

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It is pretty obvious which schedule was tougher between 2019 and 2024:

• 2019 OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at kickoff (OU)
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at end of season (OU)
• 2024 OOC: Tarleton, Utah, Air Force
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at kickoff (UU, ISU, BYU)
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at end of season (CU, ISU, BYU)

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Objective, mathematically sound metrics created explicitly to measure these things disagree with what you erroneously believe to be obvious.

bear2be2 said:

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Bearknuckle said:

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It is pretty obvious which schedule was tougher between 2019 and 2024:

• 2019 OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at kickoff (OU)
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at end of season (OU)
• 2024 OOC: Tarleton, Utah, Air Force
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at kickoff (UU, ISU, BYU)
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at end of season (CU, ISU, BYU)

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Objective, mathematically sound metrics created explicitly to measure these things disagree with what you erroneously believe to be obvious.

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"erroneously" lol, ok sure.

As for "mathematically sound metrics" - they're internally consistent if that's what you mean, sure, but Advanced Metrics Systems will never be perfectly predictive, nor perfectly descriptive, of a given football season. Too many variables and contexts that aren't fully captured.

Most of us bemoan Dave going for it so often on 4th down - but the metrics he uses to make that decision are literally just as "mathematically sound" as FPI & SP+. We've all seen the failures of that predictive set play out time and again for the Bears.

AMSs are not some Gospel Truth - just mathematical models, and there's a famous axiom about those:
the map is not the terrain.

They'll win you lots of bets, no doubt. But that doesn't make them perfect - all the bets they'll lose you are proof enough of that. But fwiw the traditional metric SOS is similar for both season's schedules.

Bearknuckle said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Chuckroast said:

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Our team last year by the end of the year was probably on par with Rhule's 2019 team. The record may not have been as good because of our slow start, but the competition was also better.

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The competition wasn't better. The 2019 team played a tougher schedule than last year's team did. All metrics that measure such things had our 2019 team way ahead of last year's.

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ESPN's Strength of Record rankings
BU19: 16 (OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice)
BU24: 39 (OOC: Tarleton, Utah, AF)

The discrepancy there is the 3 extra wins and the weighting of ESPN's "Game Control" metric among others which is pretty wonky IMO: ex.during the win streak last season those games were rarely if ever in doubt beyond the 1st quarter with the exception of TCU.


ESPN's Strength of Schedule rankings
BU19: 46
BU24: 48

Their schedules were of very similar difficulty but inverted: 19's season was soft up front and got harder; 24's season started out hard and got easier in the second half.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/fpi/_/view/resume/season/2019
https://www.espn.com/college-football/fpi/_/view/resume/season/2024

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Playing OU twice and Georgia probably did a lot to increase our strength of schedule. Never mind that we lost all of those games. We simply squeaked by mostly inferior competition in 2019, and lost to the teams that inflated our strength of schedule.

We had some good decisive wins last year.

Bearknuckle said:

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It is pretty obvious which schedule was tougher between 2019 and 2024:

• 2019 OOC: SFA, UTSA, Rice
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at kickoff (OU)
• 2019 1 opponent ranked in AP poll at end of season (OU)
• 2024 OOC: Tarleton, Utah, Air Force
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at kickoff (UU, ISU, BYU)
• 2024 3 opponents ranked in AP poll at end of season (CU, ISU, BYU)

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Texas was ranked #25 in AP at end of season in 2019.

That's why I always say put the picture in the frame. Rhule has beat several teams that ended up being ranked. Texas in 2019.. Cincinnati this year.

It's just which stat you wanna use if you hate him.. or think he's a good coach.