Timbear said:

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5th&Bagby said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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5th&Bagby said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Which players needed to be released?

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New guy, I get it.

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Well, the ones in jail...

In all fairness wasn't it three charged and one on roster at time, others were former players. The ones that left requested to leave or be released. No BU purge took place.

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Because of FERPA, we'd never know the true number but it's not a leap to say that 4, or 5 players are in the doghouse at any given time. It just is. It doesn't mean they are guilty, expelled, etc. This is college athletics.

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1. About 320 players came thru Art's team over 8 seasons. Lose the Broad Brush!
2. Zero training was made available to any Athletic Department employees by the Title IX office.
3. Zero leadership from the BoR.
4. Every other winning team's University would have managed it, given training and moved on.
5. Baylor is not geared to handle, nor does it want, big time football, with all of the publicity, expectations and coordination between Administration, Regents, HC, campus and city police, that ALL blue bloods, and now Indiana, have in place.

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It's always good to hear the pure truth on these boards.

ImABearToo said:

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320 players over 8 years and the only one in jail was kicked off the team by Art for weed, Elliott. Afterwards, he committed the SA. Man, wouldn't Georgia love to have such a low number of perps!

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He had to do that to compete. Nature of the beast.

Why do you think Randy Moss went to Marshall? He couldn't get into ND and got caught testing positive for weed at FSU. Those schools could say no. Marshall? Had to roll the dice. Sorry, but Baylor was closer to Marshall under Briles than ND/Holz or FSU/Bowden. IF BU wanted to be at that level, without the "infrastructure" the top programs had Briles HAD to take players with NFL talent and luggage they size of an ocean liner.

I get it. Sometimes Coaches get away with it and become HOFs like Urban Meyer at UF or Osborne at Nebraska. If it goes bad, they end up Briles. Universities are not going down for a Coach.

one must acks, can the hounds be stopped .......

- el UF

... in their quest for imperfection??

PA.

... and, as always, TIA.

BID.

canoso said:

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Timbear said:

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1. About 320 players came thru Art's team over 8 seasons. Lose the Broad Brush!
2. Zero training was made available to any Athletic Department employees by the Title IX office.
3. Zero leadership from the BoR.
4. Every other winning team's University would have managed it, given training and moved on.
5. Baylor is not geared to handle, nor does it want, big time football, with all of the publicity, expectations and coordination between Administration, Regents, HC, campus and city police, that ALL blue bloods, and now Indiana, have in place.

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It's always good to live in denial.

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"pure" as in hiding information? After that was released, he wasn't even allowed to attend college games as spectator! That's not on Baylor, that's called don't send texts about legal issues to your coworkers. If you need training on that, you may not be worth the effort.

I agree the Board is worthless. Which is why I pointed out the emails/texts to Ian. Go find that and you can vindicate your grievance all you want, I won't stand in your way. They absolutely could have managed it. They were just too busy filling their new luxury suites and taking selfies to care.

But saying that Art is an innocent bystander that loved Baylor and was doing the right things?

You can disagree with me all you want but there weren't many Athletic Directors that would agree with you.

Persuade them.

5th&Bagby said:

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canoso said:

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Timbear said:

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1. About 320 players came thru Art's team over 8 seasons. Lose the Broad Brush!
2. Zero training was made available to any Athletic Department employees by the Title IX office.
3. Zero leadership from the BoR.
4. Every other winning team's University would have managed it, given training and moved on.
5. Baylor is not geared to handle, nor does it want, big time football, with all of the publicity, expectations and coordination between Administration, Regents, HC, campus and city police, that ALL blue bloods, and now Indiana, have in place.

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It's always good to live in denial.

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"pure" as in hiding information? After that was released, he wasn't even allowed to attend college games as spectator! That's not on Baylor, that's called don't send texts about legal issues to your coworkers. If you need training on that, you may not be worth the effort.

I agree the Board is worthless. Which is why I pointed out the emails/texts to Ian. Go find that and you can vindicate your grievance all you want, I won't stand in your way. They absolutely could have managed it. They were just too busy filling their new luxury suites and taking selfies to care.

But saying that Art is an innocent bystander that loved Baylor and was doing the right things?

You can disagree with me all you want but there weren't many Athletic Directors that would agree with you.

Persuade them.

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The commenter to whom I responded spoke the pure truth. My comment stands.

All of this consternation for a man who's been gone for a decade and can't win a Division II game.

It's time for everyone to move on.

FLBear5630 said:

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ImABearToo said:

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320 players over 8 years and the only one in jail was kicked off the team by Art for weed, Elliott. Afterwards, he committed the SA. Man, wouldn't Georgia love to have such a low number of perps!

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He had to do that to compete. Nature of the beast.

Why do you think Randy Moss went to Marshall? He couldn't get into ND and got caught testing positive for weed at FSU. Those schools could say no. Marshall? Had to roll the dice. Sorry, but Baylor was closer to Marshall under Briles than ND/Holz or FSU/Bowden. IF BU wanted to be at that level, without the "infrastructure" the top programs had Briles HAD to take players with NFL talent and luggage they size of an ocean liner.

I get it. Sometimes Coaches get away with it and become HOFs like Urban Meyer at UF or Osborne at Nebraska. If it goes bad, they end up Briles. Universities are not going down for a Coach.

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It is a huge failure of the university If it simply admits any player the coach wants. That's what admissions offices are for. If it were true at Baylor, then it's clearly an administration issue.

bear2be2 said:

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All of this consternation for a man who's been gone for a decade and can't win a Division II game.

It's time for everyone to move on.

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Agreed. Time.
Best analogy I can muster is: aggy can spend $100Mil+ on coaches, NIL and athletes Baylor could only dream of and STILL be mediocre despite themselves.
Baylor is just Baylor, it is what it is, so just enjoy whatever highlights, moments, a "year" ever so often and resign to the fact it's been that way for well over sixty plus years.

Chuckroast said:

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I've moved on in that I will always be a Baylor fan, and I would have sent any of my kids there if they had wanted to go (long way from home for us), but I still think we are owed a mea culpa. It simply wasn't right for them to deflect all blame and essentially put it on one man… two if you count Starr and the slap on the wrist he got.

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Wrong. Obviously you have no idea how TEAMS at the collegiate level operate.

Art was the captain of the ship. He recruited and brought all of these kids onto campus. Art's position coaches spent a couple of hours every day in close proximation with the kids they coach. Position coaches have meeting rooms by position. They have a bigger room to have both full team meetings and then meetings for offense only and defense only. Colorful language and stories are told during the lead in to the actual football being discussed.

Personalities, mannerisms, personal goings ons are openly seen and developed for all to see. Coaches know who is good and who is bad. The players openly discuss their private lives amongst teammates and most coaches.

A few Saturday and Sunday practice sessions (when still feeling that Wild Turkey's bite) after a player's night out on the town will tell you a lot about who is a ticking time bomb and who to keep a watchful eye over. A good captain will never allow a good player to "play" his way out of Waco.

Our problem was that neither Ken Starr or Ian McCaw had enough backbone to lead and mentor Art. Neither wanted to do anything that might cause the W's to turn into L's. They just rolled the dice and let it snowball into a disaster. They did not have the stomachs to check out how the sausage was being made. Starr just wanted to run out with the freshmen. McCaw just wanted to slip into a brown polyester suit and relax. I blame them both because there were obvious signs early on that Art was running a loose ship as captain. An "intervention" was needed.

Winning is like a drug that you get hooked on. It's hard to change even when you know there is something wrong.

The realists have moved on. The weak remain locked in a 10 year struggle to move forward.

Thee University said:

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Chuckroast said:

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I've moved on in that I will always be a Baylor fan, and I would have sent any of my kids there if they had wanted to go (long way from home for us), but I still think we are owed a mea culpa. It simply wasn't right for them to deflect all blame and essentially put it on one man… two if you count Starr and the slap on the wrist he got.

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Wrong. Obviously you have no idea how TEAMS at the collegiate level operate.

Art was the captain of the ship. He recruited and brought all of these kids onto campus. Art's position coaches spent a couple of hours every day in close proximation with the kids they coach. Position coaches have meeting rooms by position. They have a bigger room to have both full team meetings and then meetings for offense only and defense only. Colorful language and stories are told during the lead in to the actual football being discussed.

Personalities, mannerisms, personal goings ons are openly seen and developed for all to see. Coaches know who is good and who is bad. The players openly discuss their private lives amongst teammates and most coaches.

A few Saturday and Sunday practice sessions (when still feeling that Wild Turkey's bite) after a player's night out on the town will tell you a lot about who is a ticking time bomb and who to keep a watchful eye over. A good captain will never allow a good player to "play" his way out of Waco.

Our problem was that neither Ken Starr or Ian McCaw had enough backbone to lead and mentor Art. Neither wanted to do anything that might cause the W's to turn into L's. They just rolled the dice and let it snowball into a disaster. They did not have the stomachs to check out how the sausage was being made. Starr just wanted to run out with the freshmen. McCaw just wanted to slip into a brown polyester suit and relax. I blame them both because there were obvious signs early on that Art was running a loose ship as captain. An "intervention" was needed.

Winning is like a drug that you get hooked on. It's hard to change even when you know there is something wrong.

The realists have moved on. The weak remain locked in a 10 year struggle to move forward.

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Obviously, you have no idea how some of the rest of the world operates outside of Baylor. Having grown up a diehard Vanderbilt fan, I was deflated about how elite, NCAA qualified recruits (rare for Vanderbilt) were refused admission for academic reasons, heaven forbid. One time Vandy received a commitment from an elite defensive lineman. Before he actually enrolled, he was accused of sexual assault, and the administration then reneged on his acceptance. This was based on the simple allegation, and it was out of the football coach's hands. For what it's worth, we heard two or three years later that the player was cleared of the charges, but it didn't matter because Vanderbilt didn't even wanna be linked to it as a school. The real world surrounding Baylor may have been as you describe, but that's certainly not how all private schools operate. I would like to think that a private school with a Christian mission would intuitively recognize giving a coach that much sway is a huge conflict of interest. To the extent, Baylor has done so, it is absolutely on them.

OK boys.

The Greyhounds are teeing up a 1-5 West Texas A&M. Could this be the start? It's Homecoming after all!

I hope your yella dawg is ready for that 8 to 9 hour sojourn.

ALL ABOARD!