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The grim reality of this here situation

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Keyser Soze
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In reply to D. C. Bear • 8:28a, 10/19/17
D. C. Bear said:
PartyBear said:
The guy was here for 8 seasons and would have and planned to stay much longer. Why a ridiculous assertion. Do you not think Rhule is a mercenary? ( he is proving to be a horrible one so far but don't be naive , he is).

The dude's dream is to be one of Paterno's successors at Penn St or at least be at a BiG blue blood. Nothing is wrong with that by the way. But if he ends up being as successful as Briles we are going to get in a bidding war with PSU or perhaps Mich or Ohio St as well. Will you pollyannas suddenly hate Rhule because he stays at a high price after havin interest in one of these type places?


It's a mystery to me why some fans expect a kind of marriage vow loyalty from a winning coach. After all, the same fans would rightfully run a losing coach or a not quite winning enough coach out of town without a second thought.

I think some of this is that the Fiesta Bowl loss gets pinned on job flirting - don't really think that mattered myself
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Thee University
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In reply to Mothra • 8:41a, 10/19/17
Mothra said:
Says the guy who would hire Gary Patterson in a heartbeat. Again, do you not see the irony?

I love Teaff. We've had one coach up to his quality and character in 100 years of Baylor football. In other words, coaches like Teaff are damn near impossible to find.
Where did I say I would hire him?
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Jacques Strap
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8:52a, 10/19/17
There is no such thing as a coach who is (1) a top 10 college football coach (2) would be loyal to Baylor. . I'd prefer an elite mercenary over the loyal loser.

If Rhule loses too much over the next 3-4 years he'll be gone. If he wins big for a couple of years he'll get hired away by some B1G blue blood or a dumb NFL owner. The only way he stays is if we pay him $4mm a year to go between 5-7 and 7-5 with an occasional 8-4. Then no one will hire him and Baylor will not fire. He's not loyal and that is not a knock on him because people leave good jobs for better jobs all the time. No fault in that.

D.C nailed it...

Quote:
It's a mystery to me why some fans expect a kind of marriage vow loyalty from a winning coach. After all, the same fans would rightfully run a losing coach or a not quite winning enough coach out of town without a second thought.
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LiBeartarian
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In reply to RegentCoverup • 9:00a, 10/19/17
TellMeYouLoveMe said:
Robert Wilson said:
TellMeYouLoveMe said:
PartyBear said:
The guy was here for 8 seasons and would have and planned to stay much longer.

This is the ugly face of denial.

1) The guy talked to any and every person that was willing to offer a job and he blew town at the first chance of a paycheck and left his assistants in the cold, many who he'd known for a decade. As bad as he screwed us, he screwed his colleagues longer and harder.

2) His longest tenure in ANY previous position was 7 years. Doubtful even if things hadnt' soured that he had plans to stay. Art was only motivated by what was in it for Art.

I'll bet you're going to tell me he loved Baylor?

Please, I need the laugh.


This conversation is asinine. All coaches are mercenaries. He won big and wasn't going anywhere for a variety of reasons. Whether he "loved" us is preposterously irrelevant. Did your mama not breastfeed you or something? Why are you so needy?
Your saying it's asinine while trying to say he wasn't leaving.
You're wrong. He was ready to leave until a donor saved the day.

The facts aren't on your side. Whether you think coaches are loyal/mercenaries, is irrelevant.
Some of you robe touchers need to get clean of the drug.

Briles did not want to stay at Baylor. He wanted to leave.

End of story.
Pure unadulterated conjecture to justify (in his mind) the raping and demolition of the football program.
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Russell Gym
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In reply to Thee University • 9:05a, 10/19/17
I don't always agree with you, but that's a great post.
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Yogi
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In reply to Robert Wilson • 9:11a, 10/19/17
Robert Wilson said:
I'm still hanging onto irrational hope.

But he has been stubborn to a fault (or occasionally blind - just as bad or worse). And he has sounded like Steele.
In all fairness to Matt Rhule, how do you spin a season this terrible?

Are you blatantly honest, in which case, you could disrupt any current team chemistry, or worse, interfere with future recruiting classes?

I don't know what Matt Rhule could better than what he is saying now unless he said nothing at all.

He has to keep it positive. This is a setback for both Rhule and the program. He is still trying to get Briles' recruits and his recruits alike to buy into the system.

I don't envy Rhule at all because he realizes there is no way to explain some of the crap that is happening on the field this season.

"Smarter than the Average Bear."
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Jacques Strap
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In reply to Yogi • 10:04a, 10/19/17
Yogi said:
Robert Wilson said:
I'm still hanging onto irrational hope.

But he has been stubborn to a fault (or occasionally blind - just as bad or worse). And he has sounded like Steele.
In all fairness to Matt Rhule, how do you spin a season this terrible?

Are you blatantly honest, in which case, you could disrupt any current team chemistry, or worse, interfere with future recruiting classes?

I don't know what Matt Rhule could better than what he is saying now unless he said nothing at all.

He has to keep it positive. This is a setback for both Rhule and the program. He is still trying to get Briles' recruits and his recruits alike to buy into the system.

I don't envy Rhule at all because he realizes there is no way to explain some of the crap that is happening on the field this season.

I think the spin is the players are young and soft, so we get a lot of talk about playing true freshmen and needing to get tougher... and maybe we do need to get tougher and older before we can win.

Anyway we'll find out over the next 2.5 years if this experiment with defense and ball control is going to work. So I guess I'm hanging onto hope too but I don't really expect much this year. Maybe next year. Expectations have been drastically re-calibrated.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Boatshoes • 10:08a, 10/19/17
Boatshoes said:
PartyBear said:
Look are you trying to be a fool Tell me you love me? Seriously, Briles was a mercenary and I always said he was.
Everyone is a mercenary in today's economy, not just head football coaches. The day of working for one organization for a iifetime for a gold watch to further its mission have faded into the history books. Every organization has an army of MBAs trying to screw you out of a dime at every turn, and every worker has one ear to the ground looking for an organization that might let him keep that dime.

That having been said, people are missing the reason why Art Briles didn't leave Baylor: he believed that he had built the program up to a point where it could equal or exceed UT as the premier football program in the state of Texas. Think about that for a minute. He took a look. He met with UT. He thought "This is is a better gig than the coaching job in Austin." Briles believed he could build the next Notre Dame or USC on the Brazos and was well on his way to delivering.

For those of us who lived through the lost decades, and even cheered for Teaff's teams, that was an unbelievable development.

That future - thanks to the mismanagement of the BOI - is gone forever.
I didn't know you were a satirist.

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.

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Mothra
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In reply to Thee University • 10:12a, 10/19/17
Thee University said:
Mothra said:
Says the guy who would hire Gary Patterson in a heartbeat. Again, do you not see the irony?

I love Teaff. We've had one coach up to his quality and character in 100 years of Baylor football. In other words, coaches like Teaff are damn near impossible to find.
Where did I say I would hire him?
Earlier you said Baylor tried to hire him and if they had he would have been very successful and still be here. You've also gone on record as saying you thought he was a great coach that pays attention to all phases of the game. Based on that profuse praise, I inferred you would have hired him.

Are you now telling everyone despite your praise, you would not?
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Krieg
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In reply to Mothra • 10:15a, 10/19/17
Mothra said:
Says the guy who would hire Gary Patterson in a heartbeat. Again, do you not see the irony?

I love Teaff. We've had one coach up to his quality and character in 100 years of Baylor football. In other words, coaches like Teaff are damn near impossible to find.


The fact we seem to want another Teaff is the biggest problem I have with the entire situation. His level of "success" should be unacceptable. I get the lack of resources he was given, but by and large the only guys that will be here for 20 years are guys that can't get another job due to their performance. Anybody else will threaten to leave if they get more money elsewhere.
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Krieg
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In reply to MilliVanilli • 10:18a, 10/19/17
MilliVanilli said:
Boatshoes said:
PartyBear said:
Look are you trying to be a fool Tell me you love me? Seriously, Briles was a mercenary and I always said he was.
Everyone is a mercenary in today's economy, not just head football coaches. The day of working for one organization for a iifetime for a gold watch to further its mission have faded into the history books. Every organization has an army of MBAs trying to screw you out of a dime at every turn, and every worker has one ear to the ground looking for an organization that might let him keep that dime.

That having been said, people are missing the reason why Art Briles didn't leave Baylor: he believed that he had built the program up to a point where it could equal or exceed UT as the premier football program in the state of Texas. Think about that for a minute. He took a look. He met with UT. He thought "This is is a better gig than the coaching job in Austin." Briles believed he could build the next Notre Dame or USC on the Brazos and was well on his way to delivering.

For those of us who lived through the lost decades, and even cheered for Teaff's teams, that was an unbelievable development.

That future - thanks to the mismanagement of the BOI - is gone forever.
I didn't know you were a satirist.

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.



The vacation is already over? Really?
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Mothra • 10:19a, 10/19/17
Mothra said:
Thee University said:
Mothra said:
Says the guy who would hire Gary Patterson in a heartbeat. Again, do you not see the irony?

I love Teaff. We've had one coach up to his quality and character in 100 years of Baylor football. In other words, coaches like Teaff are damn near impossible to find.
Where did I say I would hire him?
Earlier you said Baylor tried to hire him and if they had he would have been very successful and still be here. You've also gone on record as saying you thought he was a great coach that pays attention to all phases of the game. Based on that profuse praise, I inferred you would have hired him.

Are you now telling everyone despite your praise, you would not?
Had Baylor hired him in 2003 (the era he was flirted with), then odds are he'd either still be at Baylor or would've been poached away to a bigger program.

Seeming he's been at TCU almost two decades, he's chosen for whatever reason not to be a career hopper.

He's a surly personality, but a complete football coach, I don't think he's anymore ethical than Briles and in a lot of ways I think they didn't like each other because they held a mirror up to one another to see their own reflection.

Gary survives because he's a better politician and coach than Briles, handles the media and his university better than Briles ever did, and knows x's and o's to boot.



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PartyBear
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10:23a, 10/19/17
Snyder wont be at KSU forever. Patterson may take a call from his alma mater. He may be alot more expensive than they are willing to pay at that time. But I bet they talk.
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Robert Wilson
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In reply to PartyBear • 10:26a, 10/19/17
PartyBear said:
Snyder wont be at KSU forever. Patterson may take a call from his alma mater. He may be alot more expensive than they are willing to pay at that time. But I bet they talk.


Patterson is a weird dude. I read when TCU went up there to play, that was the first time he'd been back.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to PartyBear • 10:27a, 10/19/17
PartyBear said:
Snyder wont be at KSU forever. Patterson may take a call from his alma mater. He may be alot more expensive than they are willing to pay at that time. But I bet they talk.
We shall see, he's pretty comfortable in Ft. Worth, to them he is Bill Snyder.
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PartyBear
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In reply to Robert Wilson • 10:31a, 10/19/17
Robert Wilson said:
PartyBear said:
Snyder wont be at KSU forever. Patterson may take a call from his alma mater. He may be alot more expensive than they are willing to pay at that time. But I bet they talk.


Patterson is a weird dude. I read when TCU went up there to play, that was the first time he'd been back.
It really isnt that weird. He is in the coaching business he doesnt have time to get back for a game. I remember after Hayden Fry had retired he came back to be honored at a Homecoming and he mentioned in his speech that due to his career, he had never been able to be back to campus (since he was an assistant--his first job at the college level) and it was nice to be back on the campus and take in a Baylor game.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Krieg • 10:31a, 10/19/17
Krieg said:
MilliVanilli said:
Boatshoes said:
PartyBear said:
Look are you trying to be a fool Tell me you love me? Seriously, Briles was a mercenary and I always said he was.
Everyone is a mercenary in today's economy, not just head football coaches. The day of working for one organization for a iifetime for a gold watch to further its mission have faded into the history books. Every organization has an army of MBAs trying to screw you out of a dime at every turn, and every worker has one ear to the ground looking for an organization that might let him keep that dime.

That having been said, people are missing the reason why Art Briles didn't leave Baylor: he believed that he had built the program up to a point where it could equal or exceed UT as the premier football program in the state of Texas. Think about that for a minute. He took a look. He met with UT. He thought "This is is a better gig than the coaching job in Austin." Briles believed he could build the next Notre Dame or USC on the Brazos and was well on his way to delivering.

For those of us who lived through the lost decades, and even cheered for Teaff's teams, that was an unbelievable development.

That future - thanks to the mismanagement of the BOI - is gone forever.
I didn't know you were a satirist.

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.



The vacation is already over? Really?
Staycation.
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Krieg
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In reply to MilliVanilli • 10:37a, 10/19/17
MilliVanilli said:
Krieg said:
MilliVanilli said:
Boatshoes said:
PartyBear said:
Look are you trying to be a fool Tell me you love me? Seriously, Briles was a mercenary and I always said he was.
Everyone is a mercenary in today's economy, not just head football coaches. The day of working for one organization for a iifetime for a gold watch to further its mission have faded into the history books. Every organization has an army of MBAs trying to screw you out of a dime at every turn, and every worker has one ear to the ground looking for an organization that might let him keep that dime.

That having been said, people are missing the reason why Art Briles didn't leave Baylor: he believed that he had built the program up to a point where it could equal or exceed UT as the premier football program in the state of Texas. Think about that for a minute. He took a look. He met with UT. He thought "This is is a better gig than the coaching job in Austin." Briles believed he could build the next Notre Dame or USC on the Brazos and was well on his way to delivering.

For those of us who lived through the lost decades, and even cheered for Teaff's teams, that was an unbelievable development.

That future - thanks to the mismanagement of the BOI - is gone forever.
I didn't know you were a satirist.

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.



The vacation is already over? Really?
Staycation.


Lol, apparently. Should I fully unblock you now, or is that a waste of time?
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Krieg • 10:37a, 10/19/17
Krieg said:
MilliVanilli said:
Krieg said:
MilliVanilli said:
Boatshoes said:
PartyBear said:
Look are you trying to be a fool Tell me you love me? Seriously, Briles was a mercenary and I always said he was.
Everyone is a mercenary in today's economy, not just head football coaches. The day of working for one organization for a iifetime for a gold watch to further its mission have faded into the history books. Every organization has an army of MBAs trying to screw you out of a dime at every turn, and every worker has one ear to the ground looking for an organization that might let him keep that dime.

That having been said, people are missing the reason why Art Briles didn't leave Baylor: he believed that he had built the program up to a point where it could equal or exceed UT as the premier football program in the state of Texas. Think about that for a minute. He took a look. He met with UT. He thought "This is is a better gig than the coaching job in Austin." Briles believed he could build the next Notre Dame or USC on the Brazos and was well on his way to delivering.

For those of us who lived through the lost decades, and even cheered for Teaff's teams, that was an unbelievable development.

That future - thanks to the mismanagement of the BOI - is gone forever.
I didn't know you were a satirist.

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.



The vacation is already over? Really?
Staycation.


Lol, apparently. Should I fully unblock you now, or is that a waste of time?
I'm not concerned with what you do.
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Pale Rider
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In reply to Yogi • 10:58a, 10/19/17
Yogi said:
Robert Wilson said:
I'm still hanging onto irrational hope.

But he has been stubborn to a fault (or occasionally blind - just as bad or worse). And he has sounded like Steele.
In all fairness to Matt Rhule, how do you spin a season this terrible?

Are you blatantly honest, in which case, you could disrupt any current team chemistry, or worse, interfere with future recruiting classes?

I don't know what Matt Rhule could better than what he is saying now unless he said nothing at all.

He has to keep it positive. This is a setback for both Rhule and the program. He is still trying to get Briles' recruits and his recruits alike to buy into the system.

I don't envy Rhule at all because he realizes there is no way to explain some of the crap that is happening on the field this season.

Totally correct Yogi.
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possible12
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In reply to Thee University • 12:01p, 10/19/17
Thee University said:
Mothra said:
BI think I've given you too much credit. The belief that a coach would come here because of love of Baylor or over money is about is preposterous a position as one can take. Hate to break it to you, but Matt Rhule is here for $4 million per year not because he loves Baylor
I can't accept credit from you anyway.

You know what I am saying.

Did Grant Teaff love Baylor?

In the end it is not so much love as it is respect for the institution.

It is about respect for Baylor's Mission.

It is about being thankful for support no other football coach at Baylor received.

It is about understanding the history of Baylor's football program, where it has been, how it got there, mistakes made, successes.

It is about winning with CLASS.

It is about representing Baylor as her forefathers intended BU to have her green & gold flung afar.

You and your kind are what is bad with sports today.
Thank you, Dean Wormer.
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Boatshoes
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In reply to MilliVanilli • 12:19p, 10/19/17
MilliVanilli said:

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.
Back so soon?
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Boatshoes • 12:21p, 10/19/17
Boatshoes said:
MilliVanilli said:

Briles wanted the UT gig, he didn't get an offer.
Back so soon?
What would you talk about without me?
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Robert Wilson
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In reply to Yogi • 1:01p, 10/19/17
Yogi said:
Robert Wilson said:
I'm still hanging onto irrational hope.

But he has been stubborn to a fault (or occasionally blind - just as bad or worse). And he has sounded like Steele.
In all fairness to Matt Rhule, how do you spin a season this terrible?

Are you blatantly honest, in which case, you could disrupt any current team chemistry, or worse, interfere with future recruiting classes?

I don't know what Matt Rhule could better than what he is saying now unless he said nothing at all.

He has to keep it positive. This is a setback for both Rhule and the program. He is still trying to get Briles' recruits and his recruits alike to buy into the system.

I don't envy Rhule at all because he realizes there is no way to explain some of the crap that is happening on the field this season.
As to the "rebuild from the bottom" stuff, you explain it honestly. Young players and recruits will be receptive to it. Returning players may not, but they already know anyway. That's why some of them left before the fall.

As to the "oops I screwed up" stuff that "there is no way to explain," go ahead and be honest and own that, too.

I'd much rather hear him go Lou Holz than Kevin Steele. But that's just me.
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Gust Avrakotos
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1:08p, 10/19/17
This loyalty crap is ridiculous and clearly comes from people that have no business sense. I don't give two squirts whether Jersey has loyalty to BU if he gets us back in contention for a playoff (highly unlikely). Our greatest fear is that Penn St never calls because this guy turns out to be exactly what he is right now....a freaking disaster.

Art was eventually going to leave. We all knew it...we just didn't realize that he would leave a grenade behind when he did. Had there been no scandal, I truly believe he would exited and the guy in the brown suit with the pasty white skin would have hired a very good replacement. At the time, 5M a year was top 15 money.

I never once worried about whether Art's life goal was to be at BU or not. As long as he was winning 10 games a season, recruiting Heisman candidates and raking in cash from BMD's to build the practice facility, the cathedral on the Brazos and the BANC....I couldn't have cared less. Did I want Art to stay at BU forever? Sure, because he was the greatest offensive mind in the history of college football. Would I have cried about him leaving had he delivered a 10 win season, a new years day bowl and then handed the reins over to a new coach that the man in the brown suit with the pasty skin deemed worthy (with no scandal)? Absolutely not....because the program would have been in good hands.

For those dredging up commuter choke...had our leadership team had any business savvy, this is how that whole thing should have gone down.

1. The man in the brown suit with the pasty white skin should have lived by a rule of thumb that he had at least 3 resumes' for top replacement coaches in his top drawer at all times. No matter whether we were winning 12 games or two games a season.

2. The man in the brown suit would have already negotiated a deal with our BMD's to say that "if Art ever left" here is how much money you have to go get a new coach and staff. The man in the brown suit would have updated this number with the BMD's year on year to keep it market competitive.

3. Art would have then played his card with UT.

4. The man in the brown suit would have then sprung into action....working the agents for those 3 coaches in order of preference.

5. The man in the brown suit would have come to an agreement in principle with choice number one but then also had an agreement in place with choice number two if choice number one got cold feet.

6. Art would have come back with an offer from UT.

7. The man in the brown suit would have then said I need to get with the BMD's and discuss but I will have an answer for you by 8am in the morning.

8. The man in the brown suit would have then called Art no later than 8am the next morning and said....Here is what I can do for you and the assistants (increase salary by X% and here is where that puts you in the competitive market). I need to know by 5pm this evening whether this is acceptable. If it is not acceptable, or I do not hear from you, then we will have a press conference arranged for tomorrow morning at 8am for you to resign your position here at BU.

9. The man in the brown suit would have closed the conversation by saying ....."Art, we really want you at Baylor for a long long time and we believe that the offer we have presented is more than fair. We hope that you stay in Waco. I'm sure that you will want to confer with your family on this decision and I respect that....but we must hear from you before the deadline or the offer is off the table. Lastly, I truly hope that this opportunity has not distracted the coaching staff or the players from winning this bowl game. Our BMD's wanted me to convey that a Fiesta Bowl championship is extremely important to them and that they are concerned that this game is not receiving the focus that it deserves." Let Art respond.....

10. The man in the brown suit has then successfully put the ball in Art's court and has thoroughly set the table for a transition where necessary.

11. two possible outcomes....1. Art stays.....2. Art goes...but you are thoroughly prepared for either.

Gust
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Pale Rider
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1:14p, 10/19/17
I feel like I'm reading "Curious George."

Oops, I'm supposed to have Gust on ignore.

Oh well this time, whomever "Gust" is makes pretty reasonable sense; even if it pains me to say it.
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Gust Avrakotos
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In reply to Pale Rider • 1:18p, 10/19/17
Pale Rider said:
I feel like I'm reading "Curious George."

Oops, I'm supposed to have Gust on ignore.

Oh well this time, whomever "Gust" is makes pretty reasonable sense; even if it pains me to say it.
It's actually as simple as Curious George...Frank....to those of us with experience.

But to those on this board that have no business sense or those who inherited Daddy's company...it probably seems like rocket science.

Why am I off ignore?
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Keyser Soze
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1:20p, 10/19/17

Couldn't care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.


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Gust Avrakotos
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In reply to Keyser Soze • 1:23p, 10/19/17
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.

If you could care less...then why not just do it and care less?
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YoakDaddy
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In reply to Keyser Soze • 1:24p, 10/19/17
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.



Kinda the opposite with CMR thus far.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Gust Avrakotos • 1:24p, 10/19/17
Gust Avrakotos said:
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.

If you could care less...then why not just do it and care less?
This is one mangled slogan that the ad agency definitely rejected.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to YoakDaddy • 1:25p, 10/19/17
YoakDaddy said:
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.



Kinda the opposite with CMR thus far.
Patience amigo, the personnel isn't there yet, and a lot of the existing talent is banged up and not available.
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Keyser Soze
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In reply to YoakDaddy • 1:27p, 10/19/17

Agree
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Gust Avrakotos
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In reply to MilliVanilli • 1:27p, 10/19/17
MilliVanilli said:
Gust Avrakotos said:
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.

If you could care less...then why not just do it and care less?
This is one mangled slogan that the ad agency definitely rejected.
If the ad agency rejected it.....it must have simply been because they "couldn't care less"
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Gust Avrakotos • 1:28p, 10/19/17
Gust Avrakotos said:
MilliVanilli said:
Gust Avrakotos said:
Keyser Soze said:

Could care less if a coach is a mercenary as long as he is a professional - we got more than we paid for on the field and short changed off the field.

If you could care less...then why not just do it and care less?
This is one mangled slogan that the ad agency definitely rejected.
If the ad agency rejected it.....it must have simply been because they "couldn't care less"
They probably just don't think you write compelling copy.
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