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#SPREADorDEAD

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Doc Holliday
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2:37p, 9/18/18
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD

If anything Rhoades will get the hint.
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 2:46p, 9/18/18
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 2:47p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD

If anything Rhoades will get the hint.
I honestly think this is the crossroads game for Rhule and his staff. Should we beat Kansas (like we should), there is no reason that he still can't turn this season around. Should we lose and especially get blown out by Kansas at home, I think it's over. I think the team loses confidence and the downward spiral begins. I think we lose commitments and Recruiting takes a dive. No matter what happens Saturday and the rest of this season, I think Rhule gets two more seasons.

That being said, SIC 'EM BEARS!! Beat the Jayhawks!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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Bears2Cane
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 2:49p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD
This was really painful to read. You sound like a kid rallying up neighborhood children to conspire against their parents for a raise in allowance. Rhule has dedicated his life to football, and is paid millions of dollars to coach this team. Even in the face of his struggles as head coach, I'd follow him into the fire a million times out of a million before I'd respond to this entitled, whiny battle cry of yours. Get a different hobby man. This energy is better wasted elsewhere.

Just a heads up - no one says or positively responds to the word "synergy."
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hodedofome
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2:52p, 9/18/18
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to Bears2Cane • 2:52p, 9/18/18
Bears2Canes said:
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD
This was really painful to read. You sound like a kid rallying up neighborhood children to conspire against their parents for a raise in allowance. Rhule has dedicated his life to football, and is paid millions of dollars to coach this team. Even in the face of his struggles as head coach, I'd follow him into the fire a million times out of a million before I'd respond to this entitled, whiny battle cry of yours. Get a different hobby man. This energy is better wasted elsewhere.

Just a heads up - no one says or positively responds to the word "synergy."
I like Doc's posts for the most part, but I agree with you here. The last thing Rhule needs right now is people with pitchforks, torches, and for sale signs lined up in his front yard. He has enough problems to deal with. Let's see what he can do when the chips are down and his back is against the wall.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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MidWestBear2010
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2:58p, 9/18/18
I'm not sure I want us to win this game, it will just prolong the inevitable of Rhule getting fired. He has had plenty of chances, I don't care how he does against KU, it's time for him to go.

If Baylor wants its fan base back it needs a coach that is innovative that puts out a product that is exciting to watch. Matt is a good guy, and I think he has tons of football knowlege, but his game plan doesn't work at Baylor. We need someone who does things differently and is changing the way football is played. Think along the lines of the coach who never punts.
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to Bears2Cane • 3:02p, 9/18/18
Bears2Canes said:
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD
This was really painful to read. You sound like a kid rallying up neighborhood children to conspire against their parents for a raise in allowance. Rhule has dedicated his life to football, and is paid millions of dollars to coach this team. Even in the face of his struggles as head coach, I'd follow him into the fire a million times out of a million before I'd respond to this entitled, whiny battle cry of yours. Get a different hobby man. This energy is better wasted elsewhere.

Just a heads up - no one says or positively responds to the word "synergy."
Well, I think your response was painful to read.

I pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to watch this team and I'm getting ripped off. We all are. We all pay Matt Rhule through donations, season tickets, absurd tuition for our children, merchandise and we stand by expecting at the very least...competence.

I don't know about you, but when I pay for something, I expect something in return.

This ain't a battle cry. It's an act of life support.

This it buddy. I hate to break it to all of you, but if we don't get our **** together before P5 CFB breaks down..we are going to the likes of CUSA and none of this will matter AT ALL.

And you'll be wishing your ass said something.
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Tiny Elvis
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3:03p, 9/18/18
Harbour's destroyed Clyde Hart's legacy of Baylor being 400m U, so why is this a big deal?
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 3:04p, 9/18/18
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Bears2Canes said:
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD
This was really painful to read. You sound like a kid rallying up neighborhood children to conspire against their parents for a raise in allowance. Rhule has dedicated his life to football, and is paid millions of dollars to coach this team. Even in the face of his struggles as head coach, I'd follow him into the fire a million times out of a million before I'd respond to this entitled, whiny battle cry of yours. Get a different hobby man. This energy is better wasted elsewhere.

Just a heads up - no one says or positively responds to the word "synergy."
I like Doc's posts for the most part, but I agree with you here. The last thing Rhule needs right now is people with pitchforks, torches, and for sale signs lined up in his front yard. He has enough problems to deal with. Let's see what he can do when the chips are down and his back is against the wall.
I'm not asking for pitchforks or anger. I am asking Rhule to be open minded.
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Bears2Cane
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 3:05p, 9/18/18
Whether we like it or not, this is Baylor's current situation. Rhule will be leading this program for the next several seasons barring an unprecedented lack of progress. I am astounded by the sense of entitlement some of our fans have after a few short years of success under Briles.

Even more so, I am astounded that grown ass adults have the time and energy to incessantly whine and moan about Rhule. I can understand disapproval of the program's direction under CMR, but some of y'all are borderline obsessed with your hatred of the guy.

He was brought here to do the job the way that he knows how. I may not always like it, and I have my own frustrations, but I'm going to keep faith in the guy as long as he's the head coach. After all, he undoubtedly knows more about how to run a football program than me, Doc, or any other poster in this forum. Get a grip, guys.
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bear2be2
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In reply to hodedofome • 3:08p, 9/18/18
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
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LavacaBear
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3:11p, 9/18/18
You don't keep faith in a coach because of his position or title. It's progress, behaviors, and of course, results.

I don't think anyone is freaking out because we lost to Duke... it's how we lost to Duke. The confusion and lack of direction or even clarity in a system or position.

Either there is fruit on the tree or not. We're not seeing that, and that leads to the accountability.
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to bear2be2 • 3:14p, 9/18/18
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to Bears2Cane • 3:15p, 9/18/18
Bears2Canes said:
I am astounded by the sense of entitlement some of our fans have after a few short years of success under Briles.

Even more so, I am astounded that grown ass adults have the time and energy to incessantly whine and moan about Rhule. I can understand disapproval of the program's direction under CMR, but some of y'all are borderline obsessed with your hatred of the guy.

Sense of entitlement? You are right. We are Baylor. We don't deserve nice things (which I guess includes winning at football).

Once again, I don't think there is anyone here that HATES Matt Rhule and think there is just a very small handful that don't want him to succeed. I think most everyone here wants to start seeing some results.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 3:19p, 9/18/18
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Bears2Canes said:
I am astounded by the sense of entitlement some of our fans have after a few short years of success under Briles.

Even more so, I am astounded that grown ass adults have the time and energy to incessantly whine and moan about Rhule. I can understand disapproval of the program's direction under CMR, but some of y'all are borderline obsessed with your hatred of the guy.

Sense of entitlement? You are right. We are Baylor. We don't deserve nice things (which I guess includes winning at football).

Once again, I don't think there is anyone here that HATES Matt Rhule and think there is just a very small handful that don't want him to succeed. I think most everyone here wants to start seeing some results.
Exactly. Matt is a stand up guy and he has passion! I was actually stoked when we hired him under the assumption (during his press conference) that he would stick to philosophies we saw under Briles with added discipline on special teams. That is what he told us. That we would be multiple and still utilize speed.

But he did not stick to that promise.

Basically its "Hey Matt, why not try something else for a change?".
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xiledinok
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3:24p, 9/18/18
How many national championships has a true spread actually won? I m having a difficult time finding a team. OU in 2000 was close but Chuck Long had already started changing things up in Year 2 with Stoops. They eventually went to better offense with wide open exciting play once they were able to get more talent on campus.


Rhule has guys like trackster Platt, who can run really fast and do well in open space but cannot block (Nixon actually called a play where Platt was supposed to block to open up the receiver) or catch in space. Rhule wants power and speed while our roster is full of non physical players with speed.
Rhule will adjust or get hammered until year three. He might want to go to jucos until the young players are in their third season. It is not happening with this group of linemen.
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bear2be2
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 3:28p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 82.9 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
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bear2be2
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 3:35p, 9/18/18
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Bears2Canes said:
I am astounded by the sense of entitlement some of our fans have after a few short years of success under Briles.

Even more so, I am astounded that grown ass adults have the time and energy to incessantly whine and moan about Rhule. I can understand disapproval of the program's direction under CMR, but some of y'all are borderline obsessed with your hatred of the guy.

Sense of entitlement? You are right. We are Baylor. We don't deserve nice things (which I guess includes winning at football).

Once again, I don't think there is anyone here that HATES Matt Rhule and think there is just a very small handful that don't want him to succeed. I think most everyone here wants to start seeing some results.

RD2, I appreciate your tone in this thread. I've gone at you a few times in the past, but I think you've made a number of fair points here and have done so without the repetitive and bombastic nonsense that detracts IMO from your value to this board. FWIW, I like discussing Baylor football with this version.
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to bear2be2 • 3:51p, 9/18/18
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.?
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bear2be2
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 3:54p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.
Dude, you're wrong. Give it up.

Houston, whose offense is run by a BRILES, is averaging 78.3 snaps per game this season. That's less than three per game more than us. Florida Atlantic averaged 73 snaps per game last season.

Extreme tempo is a fad, and one that did/does more harm than good for coaches not named Art Briles.

As for progress this season, our red zone offense has been elite (11 of 11, with 9 TDs), which is a positive after the dismal results we had in that area last year. We've also been much better at defending the pass.

There are still some major areas of deficiency also, but progress will likely be incremental until we improve our talent level on the lines, which will only be done through recruiting and development.
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to bear2be2 • 3:56p, 9/18/18
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.
Dude, you're wrong. Give it up.

Houston, whose offense is run by a BRILES, is averaging 78.3 snaps per game this season. That's less than three per game more than us. Florida Atlantic averaged 73 snaps per game last season.

Extreme tempo was a fad, and one that did/does more harm than good for coaches not named Art Briles.
ACU is throwing up 27 points on us in year 2. We've had plenty of time to get over that hurdle. 95% of all CFB coaches have overcome that hurdle with this much talent.

So what gives? Why the absurd outlier?
What is Rhule doing wrong?

What is the process?
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bear2be2
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 4:03p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.
Dude, you're wrong. Give it up.

Houston, whose offense is run by a BRILES, is averaging 78.3 snaps per game this season. That's less than three per game more than us. Florida Atlantic averaged 73 snaps per game last season.

Extreme tempo was a fad, and one that did/does more harm than good for coaches not named Art Briles.
ACU is throwing up 27 points on us in year 2. We've had plenty of time to get over that hurdle. 95% of all CFB coaches have overcome that hurdle with this much talent.

So what gives? Why the absurd outlier?
What is Rhule doing wrong?

What is the process?
You and I have a fundamental disagreement on what "with this much talent" means. I look at this roster and see some skill talent on offense and two difference-makers on defense (James Lynch and Clay Johnston). I also see an offensive line that would struggle to get consistent push against most mid-level G5 teams.

In other words, this team has problems that will only be fixed through recruiting and development, which both take more than 15 games to show up.

If we still look like this when our current freshmen and sophomores and juniors and seniors, I'll be right there with you suggesting a change at the top. But that's how programs are built, through a PROCESS of bringing in and developing players that understand and can execute your schemes. We're not there yet. Hopefully we will get there between now and 2020. If we don't, you'll get your new coach soon enough.
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MidWestBear2010
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In reply to bear2be2 • 4:15p, 9/18/18
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.
Dude, you're wrong. Give it up.

Houston, whose offense is run by a BRILES, is averaging 78.3 snaps per game this season. That's less than three per game more than us. Florida Atlantic averaged 73 snaps per game last season.

Extreme tempo is a fad, and one that did/does more harm than good for coaches not named Art Briles.

As for progress this season, our red zone offense has been elite (11 of 11, with 9 TDs), which is a positive after the dismal results we had in that area last year. We've also been much better at defending the pass.

There are still some major areas of deficiency also, but progress will likely be incremental until we improve our talent level on the lines, which will only be done through recruiting and development.
He's not wrong, you are. Snaps per game don't tell the whole story. Snaps per time of possession is what tempo is. People like you just don't get it and never will.
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to MidWestBear2010 • 4:25p, 9/18/18
MidWestBear2010 said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
Doc Holliday said:
bear2be2 said:
hodedofome said:
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article5154216.html

If TCU was ever going to get over the Big 12 hump, Patterson realized, it was going to have to have a souped-up offense that could answer the Air Raid sirens that were going off around the league.
"It was a very difficult decision for him (Patterson)," Cumbie said. "When he said, 'Well, I know you're going to have to practice this offense a certain way, and I'm going to let you guys do that,' right then I knew that he really was serious about it."
What Cumbie and Patterson knew was that no huddle in games means no huddles in practice.
What Patterson was running in the Mountain West and what Baylor is running currently are two completely different animals. And our current offense, while lacking a running game, is incredibly modern in its concepts.

The irony with this ridiculous thread is that we're already running the spread predominantly. We're just not using tempo as part of that.
The epitome of modern spread is fast paced offense. No on thinks slow when they think spread.
So no, it's not ridiculous.

Also it's not as simple as using tempo.
Rhule's playbook is extremely complex and being taught to players who have never seen one in their life.
So difficult that a previous Heisman candidate (Jalen Hurd) struggles with it.

Scrap the playbook and let the players be athletes.



Says who? The best spread teams are going away from the tempo you so value.

Ohio State, arguably the best offensive team in the country, averages 80 plays per game. We're averaging 75.5. Clemson is down from 78 plays during their national championship season to 69 this season.

The bottom line is you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that Briles ball means winning ball. Well, tell that to Tulsa or Syracuse or Texas while Sterlin Gilbert was there.

If having a playbook was bad, the 99 percent of teams that have them would abandon theirs. And if offensive tempo was a sure-fire recipe for success, you wouldn't find Wake Forest, Texas Tech, Syracuse, Missouri and Northwestern in the top five for plays per game.
If we ran the exact same offense as Ohio State down to the minor details...what sets us apart from them?

The answer is Recruits.
We will NEVER recruit like Ohio State or Clemson. Ever.

You put us up against Ohio State and play exactly as they do...we lose every single time if you think we should adopt what they do.

So what do we do? Keep progressing with Rhule's philosophy even though you're not seeing an upward trend in progress?

You're going to have to tell me where you see us gaining progress.

Time? I don't buy it.
Dude, you're wrong. Give it up.

Houston, whose offense is run by a BRILES, is averaging 78.3 snaps per game this season. That's less than three per game more than us. Florida Atlantic averaged 73 snaps per game last season.

Extreme tempo is a fad, and one that did/does more harm than good for coaches not named Art Briles.

As for progress this season, our red zone offense has been elite (11 of 11, with 9 TDs), which is a positive after the dismal results we had in that area last year. We've also been much better at defending the pass.

There are still some major areas of deficiency also, but progress will likely be incremental until we improve our talent level on the lines, which will only be done through recruiting and development.
He's not wrong, you are. Snaps per game don't tell the whole story. Snaps per time of possession is what tempo is. People like you just don't get it and never will.
Yep and it's not even just that.

A slim playbook lets players and especially QB's master, install and execute concepts MUCH more often.

Simplification of the overall offense in terms of number of concepts reduces the offense's overall mental workload.

It is evident that fitting more reps into practice while practicing a smaller number of concepts adds up to more reps per concept, but the degree of leverage in the math is perhaps non-intuitively large.

These numbers are made up as a simple example, but the math holds no matter what the actual numbers are:
  • Consider a situation where a team has 40 total concepts and time to do 200 repetitions. That is, on average, 5 repetitions per concept.
  • If the offensive complexity is scaled back by 40 percent, that leaves 24 concepts. If the pace of practice is accelerated by 20 percent, that leads to 240 reps. The result is an average of 10 repetitions per concept, double the reps above.
Nudging a little more towards simplicity and working a little faster results in 2.5x the repetitions per concept.

That means our players would be getting damn good at executing plays.

Is it any wonder that Chip Kelly's Oregon teams and Briles teams executed their offense so well?
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Ashley Hodge
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4:51p, 9/18/18
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are we not running a spread? Weird, I could have sworn it was a spread attack. Briles' offenses looked plenty pedestrian until 2011 (year 4) at Baylor.

Offense isn't really our problem. It could be better but it has been good enough especially when you consider our offensive line is not opening holes for a running attack yet. We need to get better on defense fast.



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summaryjudged
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4:57p, 9/18/18
Briles is gone, get over it already. jfc
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Timbear
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5:04p, 9/18/18
Ashley, if offense isn't our problem, then why was it 23-0 at half?
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to Ashley Hodge • 5:18p, 9/18/18
Ashley Hodge said:
are we not running a spread? Weird, I could have sworn it was a spread attack. Briles' offenses looked plenty pedestrian until 2011 (year 3) at Baylor.

Offense isn't really our problem. It could be better but it has been good enough especially when you consider our offensive line is not opening holes for a running attack yet. We need to get better on defense fast.



Offense if your best defense, especially when you have no defense.

We only put up 27 on Duke, how does that translate to wins in conference if we have a terrible defense?
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Ashley Hodge
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 5:24p, 9/18/18
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Need to find a rushing offense and get better at defense no question. And also catch balls and make field goals and XP.
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BUBear24
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5:25p, 9/18/18
All spread offenses rely on rhythm.

Idc if we ran the veer like Briles or Leach's air raid, going missed fg/fumble/punt/ missed fg will derail any offense's rhythm
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BoonDockSaint
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5:27p, 9/18/18
Idgaf WHAT offense you run....how spread out it is

Saturday we had what ?

6 drops or more
#1 WR out for the game
That 1 TD called back by a BS penalty
The 4th quarter 3rd down blitz that was missed for a big gain to let them punch it in
2 missed FGs

Etc etc

You cant do THOSE things in ANY offense and expect to win

Hell at least they came out in 2nd half and tried to make a game of it
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Big12Bear
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In reply to Timbear • 5:28p, 9/18/18
Timbear said:
Ashley, if offense isn't our problem, then why was it 23-0 at half?
Take your pick.

Charlie missing on a open TD on the 3rd play of the game, drop after drop after drop from open WRs, penalties, missed FG's, incredibly stupid return decisions putting us in bad field position, turnovers, and finally, Duke, believe it or not, has one of the best defenses our offense will face all year.
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Prairie_Bear
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 5:32p, 9/18/18
Doc Holliday said:
Bears2Canes said:
Doc Holliday said:
We are Baylor. We have (had) a brand. It's fast paced football with freak athletes.

And it's being destroyed. Identity is something that many of us don't want to lose. It's what made going to the games so much fun..even if we were losing, it was amazing to watch. We lost so much during the scandal...but this is something we don't have to lose.

Using the QB as run threat, optionality, simplicity, space, and pace all confer advantages individually, it is the way specific pairs and groups of them interact and create synergies that is truly compelling. It's what brought greatness to Baylor.
LINK

We need to campaign against Rhule and have him dumb down his god awful complex playbook and bend the knee. If Gary Patterson could do it, so can Rhule. It also gives our players a chance to make something of themselves by being noticed.

Bring your signs, voice your opinion and get him on board with the decade old Baylor tradition.

Campaign!

#SPREADorDEAD
This was really painful to read. You sound like a kid rallying up neighborhood children to conspire against their parents for a raise in allowance. Rhule has dedicated his life to football, and is paid millions of dollars to coach this team. Even in the face of his struggles as head coach, I'd follow him into the fire a million times out of a million before I'd respond to this entitled, whiny battle cry of yours. Get a different hobby man. This energy is better wasted elsewhere.

Just a heads up - no one says or positively responds to the word "synergy."
Well, I think your response was painful to read.

I pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to watch this team and I'm getting ripped off. We all are. We all pay Matt Rhule through donations, season tickets, absurd tuition for our children, merchandise and we stand by expecting at the very least...competence.

I don't know about you, but when I pay for something, I expect something in return.

This ain't a battle cry. It's an act of life support.

This it buddy. I hate to break it to all of you, but if we don't get our **** together before P5 CFB breaks down..we are going to the likes of CUSA and none of this will matter AT ALL.

And you'll be wishing your ass said something.


Why do you keep saying "we", I thought you said you went to some UT off-shoot in Dallas? You are nothing but a career message board/reddit troll and don't speak for real Baylor fans.
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to bear2be2 • 5:32p, 9/18/18
bear2be2 said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Bears2Canes said:
I am astounded by the sense of entitlement some of our fans have after a few short years of success under Briles.

Even more so, I am astounded that grown ass adults have the time and energy to incessantly whine and moan about Rhule. I can understand disapproval of the program's direction under CMR, but some of y'all are borderline obsessed with your hatred of the guy.

Sense of entitlement? You are right. We are Baylor. We don't deserve nice things (which I guess includes winning at football).

Once again, I don't think there is anyone here that HATES Matt Rhule and think there is just a very small handful that don't want him to succeed. I think most everyone here wants to start seeing some results.

RD2, I appreciate your tone in this thread. I've gone at you a few times in the past, but I think you've made a number of fair points here and have done so without the repetitive and bombastic nonsense that detracts IMO from your value to this board. FWIW, I like discussing Baylor football with this version.
Thank you ,bear2be2, for your kind words. I am a much better poster when I am sober and not three sheets to the wind on a Saturday night after a Baylor Football game.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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