TheDom said:

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And how do you define National Brand?

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There are different ways, but start with tv market, living alumni, national championships, etc.

Here's a good starting point: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17336754/alabama-crimson-tide-notre-dame-fighting-irish-ohio-state-buckeyes-oklahoma-sooners-usc-trojans-lead-list-college-football-blue-bloods

That list loses credibility once out of the top 12. Seriously they have TCU ranked at 31 on the blue blood scale? But that isnt even the most bizarre thing.

I agree with you that private school like Baylor can become National Brand but very hard. (Barely said never, never, never.)

I disagree that Briles is basically irreplaceable.

PartyBear said:

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That list loses credibility once out of the top 12. Seriously they have TCU ranked at 31 on the blue blood scale? But that isnt even the most bizarre thing.

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Yeah, that's why I have more criteria.

TheDom said:

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I agree with you that private school like Baylor can become National Brand but very hard. (Barely said never, never, never.)

I disagree that Briles is basically irreplaceable.

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Yes. I think never, especially considering today's college landscape. You're entitled to your opinion.

Briles never beat anyone outside the region worth crowing about thus we weren't a national brand.
Our two high roosters thought winning our league allowed them to do what they pleased.

Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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And how do you define National Brand?

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There are different ways, but start with tv market, living alumni, national championships, etc.

Here's a good starting point: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17336754/alabama-crimson-tide-notre-dame-fighting-irish-ohio-state-buckeyes-oklahoma-sooners-usc-trojans-lead-list-college-football-blue-bloods

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Awesome. Something to work with. We will use this list as reference point. My thoughts are this...

1. You say there are 40 National Brands. Baylor is T-59 on that list and TCU 31. So you don't believe Baylor can assend to TCU level? And by your definition TCU is a National Brand. I would not call TCU a national brand.

2. IMO there are not 40 National Brands. There are 10-12 with 3-5 on the verge. People outside Arkansas don't wear Arkansas gear or spend money to be associated with Razorbacks. Same for Michigan State or A&M.

3. Using your term, Regional Brand, would define the rest of the P5 schools. Some slightly larger based on alumni size and state affiliation but basically similiar boat. These schools fight for national draw, attention, and notoriety by several things namely their athletic performance. More notoriety means moving up the food chain. Longevity matters a lot in this category.

4. I think it is reasonable for Baylor to move into the 30-35 range on that list. Not easy but possible. Therefore, unless you are one to believe realignment is going to only 16 or 24 teams, Baylor has a great opportunity to get to be a desirable member that makes a P5 conference.

TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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A $1.1B effort doesn't move the needle for you?

PartyBear said:

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That list loses credibility once out of the top 12. Seriously they have TCU ranked at 31 on the blue blood scale? But that isnt even the most bizarre thing.

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Really?

TCU has two national titles, 18 conference titles & a Heisman Trophy winner with 5 finalists.

TCU has also finished 13-0 once, 11-0 once, 12-1 three times, 11-2 or 11-1 seven times and 10 wins twice.

This is far superior to Baylor. You guys are still believing Baylor football did not begin until 2013.

TheDom said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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A $1.1B effort doesn't move the needle for you?

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That's not all going into athletics or football.

Thee University said:

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TCU has also finished 13-0 once, 11-0 once, 12-1 three times, 11-2 or 11-1 seven times and 10 wins twice.

This is far superior to Baylor. You guys are still believing Baylor football did not begin until 2013.

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Just good football

TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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But they were also bluebloods from the beginning. The landscape is different now. Miami is the only private school that comes to mind over the past 40 years that went from obscurity to blueblood status, but I don't think even they have a following anywhere near a typical state school.

TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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Having been to Notre Dame's stadium and McLane, I'll take McLanes.

But really, keep giving us the informed opinion.

Chuckroast said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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But they were also bluebloods from the beginning. The landscape is different now. Miami is the only private school that comes to mind over the past 40 years that went from obscurity to blueblood status, but I don't think even they have a following anywhere near a typical state school.

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Even when Miami was winning, their turnout was pretty bad. Day games were 30k tops. If you're going to sit out in the sun, you'll go to South Beach. The money/beach/condo crowd that rules Miami never got behind the team. UM's support base was the lower/middle crowd of Miami.

The landscape is different, as you suggest..

TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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And how do you define National Brand?

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There are different ways, but start with tv market, living alumni, national championships, etc.

Here's a good starting point: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17336754/alabama-crimson-tide-notre-dame-fighting-irish-ohio-state-buckeyes-oklahoma-sooners-usc-trojans-lead-list-college-football-blue-bloods

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Awesome. Something to work with. We will use this list as reference point. My thoughts are this...

1. You say there are 40 National Brands. Baylor is T-59 on that list and TCU 31. So you don't believe Baylor can assend to TCU level? And by your definition TCU is a National Brand. I would not call TCU a national brand.

2. IMO there are not 40 National Brands. There are 10-12 with 3-5 on the verge. People outside Arkansas don't wear Arkansas gear or spend money to be associated with Razorbacks. Same for Michigan State or A&M.

3. Using your term, Regional Brand, would define the rest of the P5 schools. Some slightly larger based on alumni size and state affiliation but basically similiar boat. These schools fight for national draw, attention, and notoriety by several things namely their athletic performance. More notoriety means moving up the food chain. Longevity matters a lot in this category.

4. I think it is reasonable for Baylor to move into the 30-35 range on that list. Not easy but possible. Therefore, unless you are one to believe realignment is going to only 16 or 24 teams, Baylor has a great opportunity to get to be a desirable member that makes a P5 conference.

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You really want to argue this without having truly read what I posted.

I wouldn't call TCU a national brand, nor would they be by my definition. They don't have a large tv market and they don't have many living alumni. Arkansas is a good example of a tweener that leans toward national brand because they control their entire state as far as broadcasting. They have no competition. A&M has enough alumni that they are broadcasted in DFW, Austin, Houston and San Antonio. Huge markets. And now that they are in the SEC, they get bumped up.

I don't know what realignment holds, but if networks are looking to cut fat Baylor would be on the list along with TCU, K St., Iowa State, etc...

Thee University said:

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TCU has also finished 13-0 once, 11-0 once, 12-1 three times, 11-2 or 11-1 seven times and 10 wins twice.

This is far superior to Baylor. You guys are still believing Baylor football did not begin until 2013.

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I'm not sure if you noticed. You evidentially didn't. But I said nothing about Baylor. But TCU is not in blue blood territory. Maybe had 1940-2002 not occurred they could have been. But it did and they aren't.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

---

But they were also bluebloods from the beginning. The landscape is different now. Miami is the only private school that comes to mind over the past 40 years that went from obscurity to blueblood status, but I don't think even they have a following anywhere near a typical state school.

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Even when Miami was winning, their turnout was pretty bad. Day games were 30k tops. If you're going to sit out in the sun, you'll go to South Beach. The money/beach/condo crowd that rules Miami never got behind the team. UM's support base was the lower/middle crowd of Miami.


The landscape is different, as you suggest..

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This is also correct. In fact when it looked like the the ACC might get raided into collapse around 2011 or 12. Miami was going to be left out of P5.

PartyBear said:

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Thee University said:

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TCU has also finished 13-0 once, 11-0 once, 12-1 three times, 11-2 or 11-1 seven times and 10 wins twice.

This is far superior to Baylor. You guys are still believing Baylor football did not begin until 2013.

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I'm not sure if you noticed. You evidentially didn't. But I said nothing about Baylor. But TCU is not in blue blood territory. Maybe had 1940-2002 not occurred they could have been. But it did and they aren't.

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Oh I noticed alright. I brought up Baylor since this is a Baylor bulletin board full of menstruating
Bubble Boys constantly tearing down anything not Briles built.

I was peeing down both legs waiting for the most bizarre thing you referred to. Please, I'm hopping from foot to foot.

What bizarre thing I referred to?

TheDom said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

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Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

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It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

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The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

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Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

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Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

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You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

But the bullseye on Baylor's back goes way beyond the Big 12 and whatever bridges we may have burned with our member institutions.

The news media, largely a reflection of our culture, loves to run stories dealing with potential hypocrisy within Christian institutions.

They were all over the Dave Bliss scandal and still talk about it today. In light of our newfound status as big kid on the block in football, They wholeheartedly swallowed the narrative that Christian institution, Baylor U, was willing to tolerate any degree of misconduct to win with the implication being we were only good because we were willing to stoop to low levels.

Baylor never played individuals under investigation while Florida State rides its star QB to a national championship. Ever wonder why Florida St largely got a pass not only for its player's alleged conduct, but more importantly, for playing him while the incident was under investigation.

I don't doubt that money/jealousy may play a part, but hypocrisy within a Christian university that is suddenly good in football sells because our culture likes to see Christians brought down a peg or two.

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I agree that factions within our society are moving away from Christian values as a whole. And I agree certain factions within that enjoy seeing Christian institutions and people associated with Christian values "knocked down a peg or two." I hear what you saying there.

However, I disagree that is the overwhelming issue with our scandal. We can navagate that stuff relatively easy. There was more hate bc we didn't handle ourselves well and acted like "new money" with our new winning ways. When I talk to people in Big Ten country or ACC country they love to tease about our 2 BCS bowl game losses, not anything to do with us being Christian based University, but bc they looked as us as arrogant donkeys and frauds on the field. People inside Baylor are more concerned about the religious affiliation of Baylor than outside. I talk to some people that don't even realize we are religious affiliated school, they think medical field when "Baylor" name mentioned. Friends of mine moved from South Carolina had no clue either. Another friend from Cali knew it was religious but not particularly Baptist.

The religious affiliation is not a huge thing to the outside world especially to college football. Externally, it is about making money and being a good business partner. Internally, it is about having our ducks in a row and being ready for when the heat comes because we are winning.That is where I do blame the BOR. They didn't prepare us to be a big time winning D1 P5 program. They turned the power over to Starr, Briles, Ian and let them run amok. It is the BOR job to pay attention to the road up ahead. Starr, Ian, Briles were too selfish and too arrogant to understand the road up ahead.

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Wow. This is a spot on post.

Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

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I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

---

I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

---

Nah, you're the perfect avatar of the vindictive childish spirit of caberdom, so obtuse and incapable of irony you pay money to rant about a screen name that offends your fragile opinions about an indefensible former coach.

It's self-parody, and it's incredibly amusing you've let me become so powerful in your world.

MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

---

I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

---

Nah, you're the perfect avatar of the vindictive childish spirit of caberdom, so obtuse and incapable of irony you pay money to rant about a screen name that offends your fragile opinions about an indefensible former coach.

It's self-parody, and it's incredibly amusing you've let me become so powerful in your world.

---

I think you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths as much as you enjoy putting cabs **** in yours. I get it.... it's your brokeback syndrome.I haven't expressed a meaningful opinion on any coach past or present. I do enjoy stating my low opinion of you every time your UT loving avatar insists on keeping our fans divided.

Timbear said:

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Are X and Milli the same person? Doesn't matter. The main thing that matters is that they. and Thee, keep pounding and pounding Briles as much as possible and every chance they get. We need those 3 to stay vigilant, and to never let an opportunity pass to keep pounding.

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Obviously not because as much as we dislike Milli the posts are articulate. X is a broken record. Same thought in every single thread regardless of subject matter.

Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Jmhdfw said:

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Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

---

I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

---

Nah, you're the perfect avatar of the vindictive childish spirit of caberdom, so obtuse and incapable of irony you pay money to rant about a screen name that offends your fragile opinions about an indefensible former coach.

It's self-parody, and it's incredibly amusing you've let me become so powerful in your world.

---

I think you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths as much as you enjoy putting cabs **** in yours. I get it.... it's your brokeback syndrome.I haven't expressed a meaningful opinion on any coach past or present. I do enjoy stating my low opinion of you every time your UT loving avatar insists on keeping our fans divided.

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You are such a totally pawned bish you even think you're doing something other than proving you are one.

Adjust your tin foil hat and pay your monthly dues to rant about a screen name that ***** slaps you every day and will until you're in the grave at this rate.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Timbear said:

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Are X and Milli the same person? Doesn't matter. The main thing that matters is that they. and Thee, keep pounding and pounding Briles as much as possible and every chance they get. We need those 3 to stay vigilant, and to never let an opportunity pass to keep pounding.

---

Obviously not because as much as we dislike Milli the posts are articulate. X is a broken record. Same thought in every single thread regardless of subject matter.

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

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Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

---

I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

---

Nah, you're the perfect avatar of the vindictive childish spirit of caberdom, so obtuse and incapable of irony you pay money to rant about a screen name that offends your fragile opinions about an indefensible former coach.

It's self-parody, and it's incredibly amusing you've let me become so powerful in your world.

---

I think you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths as much as you enjoy putting cabs **** in yours. I get it.... it's your brokeback syndrome.I haven't expressed a meaningful opinion on any coach past or present. I do enjoy stating my low opinion of you every time your UT loving avatar insists on keeping our fans divided.

---

You are such a totally pawned bish you even think you're doing something other than proving you are one.

Adjust your tin foil hat and pay your monthly dues to rant about a screen name that ***** slaps you every day and will until you're in the grave at this rate.

---

I think you need to look up the definition of b**** slapped. I'm pretty sure your using that phrase wrong. But as long as you keep trying to divide the Baylor faithful I'll continue to distract you as best I can my Longhorn friend.

Jmhdfw said:

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MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Jmhdfw said:

---

Hurt feelings? Milli I know you are a narcissist but you're seriously giving yourself too much credit... waaaay too much credit. Go back to your cab shrine.

---

I'm flattered a sociopathic person with a disorder has made my screen name their daily obsession and invests monetary value in that obsession.

If I were a narcissist I'd have created your account, I didn't have to, all I had to do was shine a light on your disgraced hero and you channeled your feeling of impotence towards this painful reality into becoming a whiny cyber stalker angry at a message board screen name.

It's hilarious.

It must be so empowering for you...

---

I'm just your mirror image .... without the obsession of the past regime CABER.

---

Nah, you're the perfect avatar of the vindictive childish spirit of caberdom, so obtuse and incapable of irony you pay money to rant about a screen name that offends your fragile opinions about an indefensible former coach.

It's self-parody, and it's incredibly amusing you've let me become so powerful in your world.

---

I think you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths as much as you enjoy putting cabs **** in yours. I get it.... it's your brokeback syndrome.I haven't expressed a meaningful opinion on any coach past or present. I do enjoy stating my low opinion of you every time your UT loving avatar insists on keeping our fans divided.

---

You are such a totally pawned bish you even think you're doing something other than proving you are one.

Adjust your tin foil hat and pay your monthly dues to rant about a screen name that ***** slaps you every day and will until you're in the grave at this rate.

---

I think you need to look up the definition of b**** slapped. I'm pretty sure your using that phrase wrong. But as long as you keep trying to divide the Baylor faithful I'll continue to distract you as best I can my Longhorn friend.

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I own your posting history, you are the king (or perhaps queen) of tools.

Keep it up, it's a riot. Pay those monthly fees to rant at a screen name that defies your alternate reality and pretend it's someone else's problem.

PS it's you're not your, your Caber t-shirt fandom is showing again.

It's a real knee slapper to see a Caber try a new tactic that tries to paint actual Baylor fans as trying to divide the Baylor faithful by lampooning you membrane thin skinned Caber trolls who can't move on.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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Having been to Notre Dame's stadium and McLane, I'll take McLanes.

But really, keep giving us the informed opinion.

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When Teaff was at Baylor, he tried to sell the school on building a tradition and program modeled after Notre Dame. One of his points was Notre Dame's facilities were'nt comparable to say UT's, but they had a tradition of success. He copied Notre Dame by placing placards with the names of record setting Baylor players in their lockers, so that those that used the locker later would have inspiration, motivation, and a tradition to live up to.

I would take McLane over Notre Dame's also. My point is the institution BU has no vision of even trying to get to that leve.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Notre Dame and USC are private schools that fit the criteria. The difference is Baylor doesn't want to ascend to that level and will never invest the capital and effort to even approach consideration.

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Having been to Notre Dame's stadium and McLane, I'll take McLanes.

But really, keep giving us the informed opinion.

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Rolls Eyes. You think the environment of McLane with 4k empty seats and a puny band and a "fight" song no one other than a huge Baylor fan recognizes equals 80k in South Bend hearing their fight song? Their tradition?

PartyBear said:

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What bizarre thing I referred to?

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That list loses credibility once out of the top 12. Seriously they have TCU ranked at 31 on the blue blood scale? But that isnt even the most bizarre thing.