Navy for the Big 12

6,833 Views | 60 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by EK bear
BearlyBeloved
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You can pooh-pooh me again like many of you did when I've said this before, but once more I say the Big 12 should expand by adding Navy:

  • Quality team
  • Has a following in every part of the country
  • Geographic partner for West Virginia
  • Gets us closer to actually being 12 teams
  • My father was a sailor
  • Sailor Bear would approve

Anchors Aweigh!
Sink 'em, Bears!
Grumpy
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And if we brought in Army, we could claim a bevy of national championships.
coldhardtruth
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Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
You best remember me my friend
I am the cold hard truth
-George Jones
bexar country
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UT would never allow this...too many potential losses.
ShooterTX
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I would rather have air force. We've had a team in Colorado before, and it makes it easier to grab ASU too. Maybe we could get rid of West Virginia and take Air Force, ASU and Arizona.

Maryland is way too far.
If we're going that far, then we might as well take UCF and USF instead. People actually want to go to Florida, and recruiting grounds are good there.
RegentCoverup
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I'd take either of them. And yeah AF would be nice.

In general, we play schools that are just a slight step above community colleges, I'd love to spend money supporting universities that set such high standards.

But it's a real story that we don't do this and it's a function of the fact we are in a conference of **** schools.

bear2be2
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coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
I'd add Memphis and Cincinnati and stop at 12. Those two have displayed the commitment necessary to compete at a high level, are competitive in men's basketball as well and make the most sense geographically.
BearlyBeloved
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coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
I'd go for that. And we'd start getting more attention from the eastern writers who now are so stuck on the SEC.

Of course, the Big 12 still wouldn't have 12 schools. Maybe we could rename the conference the Big Math Mistakes.
jumpinjoe
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It's all about the money.

Which of these could pull in the revenue to keep our share of Big 12 revenues from getting smaller?
Joined BaylorFans in 1999 under username jumpinjoe. Have always been Jumpinjoe. Proud 4 Year Baylor letterman and 1968 graduate and charter member of Quartermiler U, produced school record in 400 IH.
DST
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No, thanks.
BUletters
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Expansion is a lengthy process but in the meantime, why not play Navy, Army and AF occasionally? Sounds a lot better than Incarnate Word ,(incredible) and if we had home and home series, these would be attractive trips for our fans. I have made this appeal to past and current ADs and got no response at all.
If there's a good reason to avoid these teams, I'd like to hear it. And yes, I would like to have one of them in our conference.
historian
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The Big 12 is not going to expand any time soon. They played that game recently and only exposed it for the charade that it was.

I do like the idea of playing the service academies and even the potential of expansion there but it is not happening. Besides, would the service academies want in?
BearlyBeloved
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jumpinjoe said:

It's all about the money.

Which of these could pull in the revenue to keep our share of Big 12 revenues from getting smaller?
All over the world the Armed Forces Radio Network broadcasts Navy games.

Wherever there are sailors or former sailors there's an audience to watch Navy football.

There are over 20-million veterans of the U.S. Navy.
vanillabryce
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No service academies as long as they have so many constraints. They'll be unable to compete in a P5 conference over the course of the season.





RegentCoverup
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FTR, the military struggles with how to compete in the semi professional NCAA.

The academies are really the last bastion of the definition of student athlete. The rest of universities kicked that to the curb, we're all nostalgic for it and we appreciate their values, but the rest of the world does not.

I'd love to include them but you'd hear ESPN say we schedule soft.
Stefano DiMera
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I think every service academy Athletic Director has made a public statement on not wanting to join a major conference.

Those places are not institutions of football. There's a greater mission being pursued there.
Aberzombie1892
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The Big 12 could create scheduling agreements with the service academies in order to guarantee those programs one non-conference game a year -at- a Big 12 teams' home stadium, but anything more would be too much as those football programs do not belong in the Big 12 and the Big 12's P5 requirement makes it difficult for most programs to potentially have an away game at a P5 and another away game at a service academy out of conference.

An entirely separate issue is the impact on the Big 12's per team payouts, which would certainly decrease in the event any of those academies were added.

Another issue would be recruiting. The academies may not sign blue chip players, but their rise to a P5 combined with the ability of academy players to now play pro ball would negatively impact the recruiting for non OU/UT Big 12 teams.
Johnny Bear
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I highly respect all of the services academies and root for all of them, but as far as one or more to the B12 - not smart for many of the reasons sited above.
contrario
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Aberzombie1892 said:

The Big 12 could create scheduling agreements with the service academies in order to guarantee those programs one non-conference game a year -at- a Big 12 teams' home stadium, but anything more would be too much as those football programs do not belong in the Big 12 and the Big 12's P5 requirement makes it difficult for most programs to potentially have an away game at a P5 and another away game at a service academy out of conference.

An entirely separate issue is the impact on the Big 12's per team payouts, which would certainly decrease in the event any of those academies were added.

Another issue would be recruiting. The academies may not sign blue chip players, but their rise to a P5 combined with the ability of academy players to now play pro ball would negatively impact the recruiting for non OU/UT Big 12 teams.
I'm not saying any school will he added soon, but the B12 would not add anyone without an agreement with the networks to increase the size of the pie with the additional schools. We don't live in a static world.
Mitch Blood Green
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Why do we need more teams?

Besides, soon I expect the playoffs to expand to 8 teams. At that tone, look for some of the top big conferences to shrink. Nebraska/ Arkansas seems better than less geographically aligned schools.
Aberzombie1892
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contrario said:

Aberzombie1892 said:

The Big 12 could create scheduling agreements with the service academies in order to guarantee those programs one non-conference game a year -at- a Big 12 teams' home stadium, but anything more would be too much as those football programs do not belong in the Big 12 and the Big 12's P5 requirement makes it difficult for most programs to potentially have an away game at a P5 and another away game at a service academy out of conference.

An entirely separate issue is the impact on the Big 12's per team payouts, which would certainly decrease in the event any of those academies were added.

Another issue would be recruiting. The academies may not sign blue chip players, but their rise to a P5 combined with the ability of academy players to now play pro ball would negatively impact the recruiting for non OU/UT Big 12 teams.
I'm not saying any school will he added soon, but the B12 would not add anyone without an agreement with the networks to increase the size of the pie with the additional schools. We don't live in a static world.


Even with a continuation of the per team revenue payouts - which would never happen with the addition of those programs (even in the future) - there is more than enough downside to not seriously consider it.
PartyBear
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bear2be2 said:

coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
I'd add Memphis and Cincinnati and stop at 12. Those two have displayed the commitment necessary to compete at a high level, are competitive in men's basketball as well and make the most sense geographically.


If we add I think this is what we should do as well. I suppose. I say "I suppose" because I'm not as high on Memphis as I am Cincy. Cincy has a traditional campus with their own nice athletic facilities on campus etc. that they have had for decades and keep upgrading like TCU, UT etc has for example over the many decades. Memphis still rents facilities off campus across town, at least in football. But they may be alright to make it an even 12 if we decide to go to 12.

Another issue is that Memphis is close enough to Texas that they get in roads into recruiting in the state. Being in the XII would help Cincy but more by giving them a bigger stick to swing in fertile BiG recruiting grounds of their own state of Ohio and PA. Sure Cincy May get kids from Texas as well but their focus would remain in where they already recruit. So in other words it's all upside for Memphis with some encroaching on the Texas XII schools by them if they come in not to mention some diminishment of the current financial pie.
BearlyBeloved
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The only thing that matters is that Sailor Bear likes the Navy.
blackie
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Look at it from another perspective.....why would Navy want this, especially considering the non-football sports? And if they come for only football, we shouldn't want them. They have many traditional rivals and none of them are in the Big XII. And playing in the Big XII is a lot different than playing in the AAC.

They have a hard enough time recruiting big-time players with recruits looking at a 4 year military commitment. I just can't see how their recruiting could compete with the Big XII schools. Something like the AAC is probably the upper limit on what they can do to compete talent-wise, plus the AAC at least has a bunch of schools that are a lot closer to them than just one in the Big XII (WVU).

Just a bad fit for Navy, IMO.
DanaDane
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The Big 12 is more than just football. Navy would basically be uncompetitive in almost all other sports. They don't have the facilities. They don't have the funding. They are where they should be.

And for 8 years people have proclaimed Memphis would be in the Big 12. As long as UT is in the Big 12, Memphis will NEVER be in the Big 12. UT views itself as the academic equivalent of Cal Berkley/Stanford level. It will never be associated with the academic equivalent of Itawamba Community College.
RegentCoverup
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We aren't getting much benefit from relationships with those elite academic institutions Okie and Iowa State.

We should strive to be in the company of people that challenge us.

The Big12 is just a contract. If we want a regular game with a service academy, we should make it happen.
TeamPlayer
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coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Absolutely not. If we ever expand, we should only consider current P5 programs and potentially BYU. Adding Group of 5 programs makes the Big XII look like a second-tier conference.
JohnProctor
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I would like to Poo-poo this idea.
Thee University
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No offense (seriously) but this is one of the worst scenarios I have ever heard concerning adding a program to the Big 12.

I would much rather us champion a private school only conference that plays solid non-conference state schools.

Stanford
USC
Baylor
TCU
SMU
Tulane
Miami
Duke
Wake Forest
Northwestern
BYU
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt

etc
BearlyBeloved
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JohnProctor said:

I would like to Poo-poo this idea.
Pooh-pooh right back atcha! ;-)
BearlyBeloved
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Since Sailor Bear likes the Navy, that's good enough for me!



ShooterTX
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The Big XII won't expand until 2022 or 2023, and probably not even then.
Right now, our media partners would have to agree to add money to our conference, so that members do not get a smaller amount than their current distributions. Fox and ESPN are out of money, and over extended. No chance they add more money to the pie. So there is no way that the conference members agree to take less money so we can add some G5 or independent members. The money is just not there to add more members.

So that means we have to wait until the current contracts expire. But when that happens, it is very possible that our smaller size will be a bonus during negotiations. Our schools can be happy with almost as much per school as the SEC or Big10, but the contract amount is smaller overall. This could be a great setup for one of the new media companies like Netflix, Google or CBS sports streaming. The Big XII offers excellent year round content, and with only 10 schools, there is less travel & production costs. But we have top quality football, basketball, WBB, baseball, etc. I seriously doubt that any of the media companies are going to want us to add Memphis or Cincy or USF or Navy or anyone else. There just isn't a benefit there. The only thing I could see them wanting is to get rid of WVU, as it extends the costs without adding... anything. So maybe there is media pressure to replace WVU with something closer to home, or in a better media market like maybe ASU in Phoenix or SMU in Dallas. The last round of expansion talk made it clear that the conference doesn't want to add another Texas team, and I totally agree with that....unless it is A&M. I know, I know... we all hate the Aggies... but they do bring a HUGE fanbase and you can't deny that A&M would be an all around better program than WVU. Of course, there is just no way that A&M would return, so let's leave it alone.

Memphis is not a compelling program, nor a big enough market for the effort. Same for Cincy. Reality is that there isn't a G5 program which has a good combo of programs, fanbase and media market. So we would have to grab a P5 school, which leaves the PAC12 teams and ACC teams. No one is leaving the SEC or the Big10, so don't even start with that crap. Anyone who would consider leaving is totally undesirable to our media partners (who really watches Nebraska, Arky or Mizzou anyway). CU is a compelling idea, but the AZ schools are the obvious choice from the PAC12. In my opinion, ASU (Phoenix > Tucson by a mile) is the one to grab, especially if we could somehow get rid of WVU and replace with ASU. From the ACC... yuck. FSU has fanbase, market and the potential for good programs... but... their history of scandals makes them a bit risky. Georgia Tech has the market, and some fanbase, but lacks the programs (beyond football). Clemson has no reason to leave, but maybe that could change in the next few years... doubt it. The ACC would have to have serious money issues for Clemson to leave their cushy position... serious money issues.

So I think the Big XII will sign with Google/YouTube for 10 years at $3 billion, while remaining at 10 teams. Maybe we get lucky and trade WVU for Georgia Tech or FSU or ASU, but that is highly unlikely.

Of course, all of this will look very different if the Whorns go crazy and decide to make a run as an independent. I give that a 50/50 chance of happening if they can win the conference between now and 2024. If they win a natty before 2023, then I give it an 80% chance that the University of Austin will go indy.
GoldenBear
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No was UT goes independent. Political fallout would be overwhelming.
BUbearinARK
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BearlyBeloved said:

You can pooh-pooh me again like many of you did when I've said this before, but once more I say the Big 12 should expand by adding Navy:

  • Quality team
  • Has a following in every part of the country
  • Geographic partner for West Virginia
  • Gets us closer to actually being 12 teams
  • My father was a sailor
  • Sailor Bear would approve

Anchors Aweigh!
Sink 'em, Bears!

I bet they'd be good at sailgating
RegentCoverup
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GoldenBear said:

No was UT goes independent. Political fallout would be overwhelming.
Mostly true, but we're in an odd funk college sports wise.

We're basically the rich kid in a conference full of schools that die without state government handouts.

Yet we've agree to be captive to a conference because of the idea of it representing 'state' interests. On some level, I agree with that completely, but it's hilarious to me that the government cheese crowd thinks it can pick the members of a conference with zero financial investment of their own or risk.

Not that anyone should be shocked that people think they should be free to spend public money on their own fickle interests, but here we are.

We need to explore our interest in strategic relationships. We are neither pro ecclesia nor pro Texana by opening the Texas market to ...Iowa State.

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