Navy for the Big 12

6,842 Views | 60 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by EK bear
EK bear
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No conferences are expanding. With an 8 team playoff around the corner and essentially no teams that add value things are set for now. You might see some contraction if there weren't long term contracts in place. I'm positive in 10 years the big 10 will regret adding Rutgers for example.

Similarly, with an 8 team playoff you will see the big 12 eliminate the championship game. If we crowned OU the champ and had Baylor sitting at 11-1 they both would be in the playoff rather than handing one a loss.
CutTheTVoff
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I love the academies but one might as well reach for Notre Dame.
bear2be2
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TeamPlayer said:

coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Absolutely not. If we ever expand, we should only consider current P5 programs and potentially BYU. Adding Group of 5 programs makes the Big XII look like a second-tier conference.
This is a really silly mentality.

Louisville, TCU and Utah were three of the best additions made during the last round of realignment. All came from the G5 level. There are number of stable, well-run football programs at the G5 level that would bring far more to a power conference than many of the teams already playing at that level. All they need is the chance to prove themselves.
TeamPlayer
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bear2be2 said:

TeamPlayer said:

coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Absolutely not. If we ever expand, we should only consider current P5 programs and potentially BYU. Adding Group of 5 programs makes the Big XII look like a second-tier conference.
This is a really silly mentality.

Louisville, TCU and Utah were three of the best additions made during the last round of realignment. All came from the G5 level. There are number of stable, well-run football programs at the G5 level that would bring far more to a power conference than many of the teams already playing at that level. All they need is the chance to prove themselves.
Louisville was in the Big East, which was not a G5 conference. What has TCU added to the Big XII? Are we really a better conference because of them? No. And although they have fielded a competitive football team, Utah hasn't done anything for the Pac 12. The Pac 12 has alarmingly fallen way behind the other P5 conferences.

The fact is, TCU and Utah benefited from this gift. Adding Cincinnati, Memphis, UH, UCF, whoever else you want only helps those schools and adds nothing to the conference. BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
bear2be2
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TeamPlayer said:

bear2be2 said:

TeamPlayer said:

coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Absolutely not. If we ever expand, we should only consider current P5 programs and potentially BYU. Adding Group of 5 programs makes the Big XII look like a second-tier conference.
This is a really silly mentality.

Louisville, TCU and Utah were three of the best additions made during the last round of realignment. All came from the G5 level. There are number of stable, well-run football programs at the G5 level that would bring far more to a power conference than many of the teams already playing at that level. All they need is the chance to prove themselves.
Louisville was in the Big East, which was not a G5 conference. What has TCU added to the Big XII? Are we really a better conference because of them? No. And although they have fielded a competitive football team, Utah hasn't done anything for the Pac 12. The Pac 12 has alarmingly fallen way behind the other P5 conferences.

The fact is, TCU and Utah benefited from this gift. Adding Cincinnati, Memphis, UH, UCF, whoever else you want only helps those schools and adds nothing to the conference. BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.

The post-Miami, Va. Tech exodus Big East was absolutely a mid-major conference. It was the foundation for the current American Athletic Conference. Louisville, like West Virginia, was stuck in mid-major limbo when they were picked up by the ACC.

And TCU, Utah and Louisville have added far more to their respective conferences than have most of the other teams that switched leagues during the last round of musical chairs. I'd take any of those three over Colorado, Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. And they've all had more substantial athletic success than A&M or Nebraska.

To suggest that those schools haven't added anything to their new conferences, particularly when compared to the other teams involved in realignment, is just false.
PartyBear
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The important question is have they added money to their conferences. Have TCU and Utah done that? I dont know the answer it is a serious question. Perhaps they have and perhaps one of you knows the answer that is why I asked. That is the bottom line, not their record in football since they joined P5 conferences.
Aberzombie1892
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bear2be2 said:

TeamPlayer said:

bear2be2 said:

TeamPlayer said:

coldhardtruth said:

Navy
UCF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Absolutely not. If we ever expand, we should only consider current P5 programs and potentially BYU. Adding Group of 5 programs makes the Big XII look like a second-tier conference.
This is a really silly mentality.

Louisville, TCU and Utah were three of the best additions made during the last round of realignment. All came from the G5 level. There are number of stable, well-run football programs at the G5 level that would bring far more to a power conference than many of the teams already playing at that level. All they need is the chance to prove themselves.
Louisville was in the Big East, which was not a G5 conference. What has TCU added to the Big XII? Are we really a better conference because of them? No. And although they have fielded a competitive football team, Utah hasn't done anything for the Pac 12. The Pac 12 has alarmingly fallen way behind the other P5 conferences.

The fact is, TCU and Utah benefited from this gift. Adding Cincinnati, Memphis, UH, UCF, whoever else you want only helps those schools and adds nothing to the conference. BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.

The post-Miami, Va. Tech exodus Big East was absolutely a mid-major conference. It was the foundation for the current American Athletic Conference. Louisville, like West Virginia, was stuck in mid-major limbo when they were picked up by the ACC.

And TCU, Utah and Louisville have added far more to their respective conferences than have most of the other teams that switched leagues during the last round of musical chairs. I'd take any of those three over Colorado, Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. And they've all had more substantial athletic success than A&M or Nebraska.

To suggest that those schools haven't added anything to their new conferences, particularly when compared to the other teams involved in realignment, is just false.


To be fair, on the field success has very little to do with P5 expansion, and, for those that didn't understand that before, it was made painfully clear to them during the most recent rounds of P5 realignment. Because that is the case, any discussion about expansion - whether potential future expansion or the benefit of a P5 adding a program in the past - should be void of using on the field to justify/argue against an addition.

With that out of the way, it's easier to focus on what value each programs can bring to a conference, such as:
1. Is the university in a top FBS recruiting state?
2. Is the university in a heavily populated state?
3. Does university have reasonable access to a major media market (i.e. top 50) in state or partially in state where it's alumni end up?
4. What other FBS universities are in the state and how are they viewed relative to this program by the community at large, parents, and prospective college students?
5. Does the university have a strong reputation (i.e. research grants, AAU membership, ranking in publications, etc.)?
6. How many living alumni does the university have and what is its enrollment?

As an example, Maryland (which is quite favorable in almost all of the above metrics) was largely added to the B1G in order to bring the DC media market into B1G footprint. No university in their conference cares if they ever make a bowl game, and they will probably never win their division - but that's a non-issue, and, further, it certainly doesn't make TCU, Louisville, or Utah nearly as valuable to a P5 conference as they are.

The Big 12 added TCU as a replacement for Texas A&M, but they generally pale in comparison to Texas A&M in the above list. By adding TCU, the Big 12 attempted to fortify Dallas from the SEC since the loss of A&M was going to have a negative impact in regard to recruiting - however, elevating another Texas FBS team to P5 has its own separate negative effect on Big 12 recruiting for pre-existing members. Whether the Big 12 is truly benefiting more from adding TCU versus having added someone like Cincinnati - who could provide their own separate recruiting ground - is questionable.
BCC97
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If there's to be any serious talk of expansion / realignment among the CFB landscape, it won't be until 2023 - 2025 when the TV contracts start expiring.
ShooterTX
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BCC97 said:

If there's to be any serious talk of expansion / realignment among the CFB landscape, it won't be until 2023 - 2025 when the TV contracts start expiring.
Actually, it is more likely that it starts in 2022, BEFORE the current contracts begin expiring. I don't think ESPN and Fox want to wait until it expires, and there is a full blown bidding war. They will probably want to re-negotiate or extend some of the current contracts, to try and cut out the new comers like Netflix, Amazon and Google.
BearlyBeloved
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TeamPlayer said:


BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
Navy likewise has a major following with the millions of sailors and former sailors. So adding both BYU and Navy would make perfect sense to me.

And then we would have twelve schools again.
Tiny Elvis
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I think we should hold out on expansion until the Space Force gets a team up and running...
ShooterTX
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BearlyBeloved said:

TeamPlayer said:


BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
Navy likewise has a major following with the millions of sailors and former sailors. So adding both BYU and Navy would make perfect sense to me.

And then we would have twelve schools again.
925 miles from Ames to Anapolis
1,270 miles from Waco to Anapolis
1,450 miles from Lubbock to Anapolis
1,860 miles from Provo to Anapolis

For comparison:

750 miles from Ames to Waco
310 miles from Lubbock to Waco
1,100 miles from Morgantown to Waco

I seriously doubt that the Navy guys are gonna be OK with traveling over 1,000 miles for the majority of their away games each year. And think about the MBB and WBB programs.

There is a reason that conferences have traditionally been regionally based. If we really want to add a team that is around 1,000 miles away, then it better be totally worth it, and ideally have a rather large airport nearby. BWI is pretty close to Navy (about 15 miles away), but BYU is over 40 miles from SLC and you have to drive through Salt Lake City and most of Provo to get there.

Both Navy and BYU have large fanbases. Navy has the advantage on TV markets, being so close to Washington DC and Baltimore. They both have strong support for their programs, which means they could handle a jump to an elevated conference like the Big12. I just don't think that they would be a good fit, and that the distance would make any sense for either of them to join. Navy would be a better fit for the ACC or maybe the B1G, but not for us.

BYU would only make sense if we could get rid of WVU, and then add the 2 AZ schools. Even more sense if we could then add 2 schools from Colorado like CU, Air Force or CSU. BYU by itself is just as insane as adding WVU all by itself.... however I would support replacing WVU with BYU... it would be better even with the "no Sunday" restriction. WVU just doesn't add much at this time.
Baylor Pride
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Navy should be a target of the ACC if any of their schools bolt for more lucrative conference affiliation.
Baylor Alum - Class of '99
BearlyBeloved
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The Navy travels longer distances than those every day.


ShooterTX
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BearlyBeloved said:

The Navy travels longer distances than those every day.



funny... but totally irrelevant.
Thee University
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BearlyBeloved said:

TeamPlayer said:


BYU, because of its enormous viewing audience worldwide, would actually move the needle greater than a school like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
Navy likewise has a major following with the millions of sailors and former sailors. So adding both BYU and Navy would make perfect sense to me.

And then we would have twelve schools again.
MILLIONS?

Their stadium seats 34,000. They average about 31,500 per game.

Navy has a JV team. Are we going to add one? Maybe all the CABers can come together and form a JV team? I know where there are a few free coaches.
BearlyBeloved
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Thee University said:


MILLIONS?

Their stadium seats 34,000. They average about 31,500 per game.

Navy has a JV team. Are we going to add one? Maybe all the CABers can come together and form a JV team? I know where there are a few free coaches.
10-2 this year. Losses only to ranked Notre Dame and Memphis and beat ranked SMU.

This is about TV eyeballs, not rear ends in the seats (but their attendance beats Kansas').

There are millions of Navy veterans, far more than graduates of any school.

And remember the sailors on active duty, who do get TV aboard ship. Don't mess with the U.S. Navy.

RegentCoverup
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The Big12 could run and Ad saying, "We lost a fake army...."





But gained a REAL Navy!"

BearlyBeloved
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

The Big12 could run and Ad saying, "We lost a fake army...."





But gained a REAL Navy!"


LOL

blackie
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BearlyBeloved said:

Thee University said:


MILLIONS?

Their stadium seats 34,000. They average about 31,500 per game.

Navy has a JV team. Are we going to add one? Maybe all the CABers can come together and form a JV team? I know where there are a few free coaches.
10-2 this year. Losses only to ranked Notre Dame and Memphis and beat ranked SMU.

This is about TV eyeballs, not rear ends in the seats (but their attendance beats Kansas').

There are millions of Navy veterans, far more than graduates of any school.

And remember the sailors on active duty, who do get TV aboard ship. Don't mess with the U.S. Navy.


I am a Navy veteran. Other than nostalgic interest in watching the Army - Navy game, I have no interest in watching Navy play anything. Annapolis grads are interested in seeing and rooting for Navy. BU, OU, UT, etc.grads who entered the Navy after graduation are going to place their athletic loyalties and their monetary support with their school, not the Naval Academy. That school means little to them. You are not going to get millions of eyeballs by adding Navy just because they served in the Navy.

And for those serving who never even went to college, they may want to see Navy beat the other service academies, but care little for them at any other time. They probably are T-shirt fans of the bluebloods or where their relatives or spouse went to school. People are loyal to the service, not to a school who sent them junior officers for whom they may have little respect because of their inexperience.
BearlyBeloved
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blackie said:


I am a Navy veteran. Other than nostalgic interest in watching the Army - Navy game, I have no interest in watching Navy play anything. Annapolis grads are interested in seeing and rooting for Navy. BU, OU, UT, etc.grads who entered the Navy after graduation are going to place their athletic loyalties and their monetary support with their school, not the Naval Academy. That school means little to them. You are not going to get millions of eyeballs by adding Navy just because they served in the Navy.

And for those serving who never even went to college, they may want to see Navy beat the other service academies, but care little for them at any other time. They probably are T-shirt fans of the bluebloods or where their relatives or spouse went to school. People are loyal to the service, not to a school who sent them junior officers for whom they may have little respect because of their inexperience.
Thank you for your service!


chorne68
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UCF would be my choice. A top football program, over 50,000 students with many alumni, great recruiting, populous state with a lot of eyeballs.
dave714
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The military branch isnt the answer if they were to expand. Either the two Floridas central and south or Memphis and Cincinnati.
Aberzombie1892
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Baylor Pride said:

Navy should be a target of the ACC if any of their schools bolt for more lucrative conference affiliation.


What? If the ACC expands and they have to choose a G5 program, it's 100% Cincinnati and it's not close.
BUbackerinET
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Excellent idea!
Aliceinbubbleland
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We already have to share our money with the Big12 Commissioner's office. Why the hell is anyone interested in expanding the Big 12 and cutting more from our pie? OU is proof we don't need more members to get to the final four.
Astros in Home Stretch Geaux Texans
EK bear
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A conference with 10 teams will be at an advantage once the playoff expands and the 10-team conference eliminates their superfluous conference championship game.

The only teams I would entertain would be Arkansas and Nebraska. They would hurt BU but strengthen the conference and are former and natural regional fits.
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