Gameday Thread: #7 Baylor (5-1) at Marquette (5-2)

Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

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That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

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Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

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George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

We’re averaging a turnover per minute right now

— MaCio Teague (@_MrDoWork) November 30, 2022

I thought this as well neither excited me when announced that they would be coming here, I would've much rather had McCullers from tech instead of bridges and lohner idk maybe drew had a man crush and just decided to offer him

Big_Pumpin said:

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Baylor shooting 54% from the field. Lighting it up!

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Between unforced turnovers...yes

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

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He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

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Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

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He came in averaging nine assists per game and had a decent 5-to-3 assist-to-turnover ratio tonight.

Flagler was not our problem tonight. In fact, he's the only player on this team that has shown up every game this year.

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Bear I just have to keep shaking my head at your commentary. I have to question if you understand what you're watching. You just couldn't be more wrong. It is wild as I think you try to be fairly objective. I don't know if you're being serious or just denying what is slapping everyone who watches the game right in the face.

Again, it is objectively obvious Flagler just doesn't have it against guys who speed him up right now. I hate to say it as I was probably higher on Flagler than anyone for the last two years but its just the reality. Not a knock. He is playing out of position.

Stating Flagler specifically because he has been tasked to run point and it goes without saying that Cryer and Bonner just can't be the primary ball handlers for extended periods of time against any high level comp. If anything its a compliment to Flagler as he is the only one its even a question. The others obviously can't.

Before you reply, give me the stat on the number of times we start our sets 35+ feet from the basket with the initial pass a life or death handoff or pass to the perimeter wing. That matters in a huge way and is a reflection of ball skills. Bonner does the same thing so its not a knock on Flagler.

Was screaming for Broome who signed withAuburn. Also wanted Osunnyi who signed with Iowa State. Put either of those guys in a Bear uniform and we're in the title hunt all season. This team just doesn't have a championship make up. They'll get hott from 3 and win big games but the defense will cost them all season

Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

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He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

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Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

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He came in averaging nine assists per game and had a decent 5-to-3 assist-to-turnover ratio tonight.

Flagler was not our problem tonight. In fact, he's the only player on this team that has shown up every game this year.

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Bear I just have to keep shaking my head at your commentary. I have to question if you understand what you're watching. You just couldn't be more wrong. It is wild as I think you try to be fairly objective. I don't know if you're being serious or just denying what is slapping everyone who watches the game right in the face.

Again, it is objectively obvious Flagler just doesn't have it against guys who speed him up right now. I hate to say it as I was probably higher on Flagler than anyone for the last two years but its just the reality. Not a knock. He is playing out of position.

Stating Flagler specifically because he has been tasked to run point and it goes without saying that Cryer and Bonner just can't be the primary ball handlers for extended periods of time against any high level comp. If anything its a compliment to Flagler as he is the only one its even a question. The others obviously can't.

Before you reply, give me the stat on the number of times we start our sets 35+ feet from the basket with the initial pass a life or death handoff or pass to the perimeter wing. That matters in a huge way and is a reflection of ball skills. Bonner does the same thing so its not a knock on Flagler.

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If Flagler was the problem you suggest, the numbers would show it. He's not.

This team has a point guard problem and his name is Keyonte George. George has basically been a bad James Akinjo facsimile the past three weeks -- a ball dominant guard who makes bad decisions and can't shoot.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

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He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

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Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

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He came in averaging nine assists per game and had a decent 5-to-3 assist-to-turnover ratio tonight.

Flagler was not our problem tonight. In fact, he's the only player on this team that has shown up every game this year.

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Bear I just have to keep shaking my head at your commentary. I have to question if you understand what you're watching. You just couldn't be more wrong. It is wild as I think you try to be fairly objective. I don't know if you're being serious or just denying what is slapping everyone who watches the game right in the face.

Again, it is objectively obvious Flagler just doesn't have it against guys who speed him up right now. I hate to say it as I was probably higher on Flagler than anyone for the last two years but its just the reality. Not a knock. He is playing out of position.

Stating Flagler specifically because he has been tasked to run point and it goes without saying that Cryer and Bonner just can't be the primary ball handlers for extended periods of time against any high level comp. If anything its a compliment to Flagler as he is the only one its even a question. The others obviously can't.

Before you reply, give me the stat on the number of times we start our sets 35+ feet from the basket with the initial pass a life or death handoff or pass to the perimeter wing. That matters in a huge way and is a reflection of ball skills. Bonner does the same thing so its not a knock on Flagler.

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If Flagler was the problem you suggest, the numbers would show it. He's not.

This team has a point guard problem and his name is Keyonte George.

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But a point guard would likely lead the team in assists right? Or have a few assists? A couple? One? Zero??!!!!

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

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Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

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George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

---

Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

---

George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

---

Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

---

He came in averaging nine assists per game and had a decent 5-to-3 assist-to-turnover ratio tonight.

Flagler was not our problem tonight. In fact, he's the only player on this team that has shown up every game this year.

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Bear I just have to keep shaking my head at your commentary. I have to question if you understand what you're watching. You just couldn't be more wrong. It is wild as I think you try to be fairly objective. I don't know if you're being serious or just denying what is slapping everyone who watches the game right in the face.

Again, it is objectively obvious Flagler just doesn't have it against guys who speed him up right now. I hate to say it as I was probably higher on Flagler than anyone for the last two years but its just the reality. Not a knock. He is playing out of position.

Stating Flagler specifically because he has been tasked to run point and it goes without saying that Cryer and Bonner just can't be the primary ball handlers for extended periods of time against any high level comp. If anything its a compliment to Flagler as he is the only one its even a question. The others obviously can't.

Before you reply, give me the stat on the number of times we start our sets 35+ feet from the basket with the initial pass a life or death handoff or pass to the perimeter wing. That matters in a huge way and is a reflection of ball skills. Bonner does the same thing so its not a knock on Flagler.

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If Flagler was the problem you suggest, the numbers would show it. He's not.

This team has a point guard problem and his name is Keyonte George. George has basically been a bad James Akinjo facsimile the past three weeks -- a ball dominant guard who makes bad decisions and can't shoot.

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Again, no clue what you are talking about. He isn't "the problem." Deflection. Yes George is struggling nearly as badly as Bridges right now. They have both been bad and its a major problem I think Drew can get worked out (George.. possibly not Bridges)

I feel like there was plenty of options I remember reading about Broome I thought we would have a shot but idk if we even offered I understand that players have to fit the cultural aspect of Baylor maybe that's what makes players hesitant from signing Ik Bridges mentioned something about choosing Baylor over Alabama because there was less distractions at Baylor (partying)

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

---

Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

---

George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

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You just aren't making any sense. Thankfully Iowa and Crawford seem to clearly understand what is out there on the floor. Again, you are making up an argument in your head. The comment was objectively correct and obvious. Flagler is struggling against pressure D. Ball handling still just isn't quite there. The comment was made after yet another weak handle.

Never said Flager is close to "the problem." You're making stuff up. George has been struggling severely. Nothing to do with anything I said.

Until you give the figures on how the sets are starting (huge role of a pg) Ill assume you don't understand what you are watching. Again Flagler is not even a top 4 concern on the team which makes the obvious even more concerning right now.

The thing that worries me is Marquette just have an excellent blue print of how to defend us

Kenpom just updated with our boxscore.

We fell from #8 to #16 overall in his stats

Stayed at #2 offense

Fell all the way to #77 defense.

IowaBear said:

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The thing that worries me is Marquette just have an excellent blue print of how to defend us

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Virginia has another. We have small guards and are not a good passing team against pressure.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

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Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

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This is obvious stuff. Bear2 just making stuff up right now. Not a big deal.

Nobody least of all myself is trashing Flagler. Possibly favorite player on the team. Just pointing out something that was happening in real time. We've only played one other team that put any type of aggressive pressure or hedge on us (VA) and we just haven't been able to do much against it. Again, Flager is not one of our main problems yet this dude insists anybody thinks this. Its nonsense.

'there will be another night.' - terry stembridge

IowaBear said:

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The thing that worries me is Marquette just have an excellent blue print of how to defend us

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Most teams don't do what they do on the defensive end from a pressure standpoint, though. We'll probably struggle with full-court pressure, but we'll only play a couple of teams all year that utilize it extensively.

That doesn't bode well against Texas, who is one of the top pressing teams I've seen (the other being Tennessee).

Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

He has. He came into tonight with 43 assists to 11 turnovers.

Tonight sucked, no question. But there's no reason to turn it into a referendum on individual players' abilities or value.

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Not to speak for Quinton, but his post was not a knock on Flag's abilities or value. Flagler is lethal playing off the ball but is merely average trying to play PG.

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This is obvious stuff. Bear2 just making stuff up right now. Not a big deal.

Nobody least of all myself is trashing Flagler. Possibly favorite player on the team. Just pointing out something that was happening in real time. We've only played one other team that put any type of aggressive pressure or hedge on us (VA) and we just haven't been able to do much against it. Again, Flager is not one of our main problems yet this dude insists anybody thinks this. Its nonsense.

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We have a million legitimate concerns on this team, and half the discussion is about Flagler's ability or lack thereof as a point guard. It's stupid.

DanaDane said:

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That doesn't bode well against Texas, who is one of the top pressing teams I've seen (the other being Tennessee).

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They're objectively better than we are right now. Even before tonight, we were going to have to improve to compete with them.

Now, the necessary growth curve just looks even steeper.

bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

---

Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

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George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

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My only issue is that feels really unfair to Akinjo who despite all his flaws when healthy could at least get to the rim and score against anyone, something I've yet to see George do.

George has made zero progression since we saw him in the summer and his attitude/demeanor at least watching from a TV looks really bad. Not selfish like akinjo just frustrated and ready to quit.

IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

---

Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

---

George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

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My only issue is that feels really unfair to Akinjo who despite all his flaws when healthy could at least get to the rim and score against anyone, something I've yet to see George do.

George has made zero progression since we saw him in the summer and his attitude/demeanor at least watching from a TV looks really bad. Not selfish like akinjo just frustrated and ready to quit.

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I don't want to pile on George too much. He's super talented and seems like a good kid. But when a guy comes in with that kind of hype and is inserted into that kind of role, he's got to perform. And so far, the game has been too big for him against good teams.

But I'm not a big one-and-done guy in general. I got roasted for saying this last year, but most freshmen aren't ready physically, mentally or emotionally to dominate grown men in high-major Division I college basketball. So in most cases, you're going to get an unfinished, frustrating player for one season and be replacing that roster spot the next.

I'm sad that I didn't get to watch Baylor play basketball tonight.

Yes, I watched the game.

bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

---

That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

---

Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

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George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

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My only issue is that feels really unfair to Akinjo who despite all his flaws when healthy could at least get to the rim and score against anyone, something I've yet to see George do.

George has made zero progression since we saw him in the summer and his attitude/demeanor at least watching from a TV looks really bad. Not selfish like akinjo just frustrated and ready to quit.

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I don't want to pile on George too much. He's super talented and seems like a good kid. But when a guy comes in with that kind of hype and is inserted into that kind of role, he's got to perform. And so far, the game has been too big for him against good teams.

But I'm not a big one-and-done guy in general. I got roasted for saying this last year, but most freshmen aren't ready physically, mentally or emotionally to dominate grown men in high-major Division I college basketball. So in most cases, you're going to get an unfinished, frustrating player for one season and be replacing that roster spot the next.

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This unrealistic mindset for a one-and-done player is the reason so many people complained about KB last year and George this year. It's unfair to say "he's got to perform" and "dominate grown men." I think the reason for George's struggles is the kind of role he's expected to perform, immediately thrown into the fire as the alpha and the focus of every opposing defense. By contrast look at Sochan last year, he wasn't expected to immediately dominate. Hell, he didn't even have to start for us. He had a low-usage role and could kind of blend in and grow gradually with so much talent around him. He started the year as a role player and little by little grew into a star by the time the tourney rolled around. If we had a true PG to complement George and take the pressure off him, he would be much more efficient and there would be much less complaining about him.

Got roasted last time I said and I'll say it again. We have 3 guys who can score the rock that's it. Cryer, Flagler, and George. Flo and Bridges give us nothing offensively. The bench is the same way. We're going to have to consistently rely on 3 dudes to score 70% of our points. Not a great recipe when you need 80 to win most nights because your defense is one of the worst in the country

Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Quinton said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Thought Flagler would have greatly improved ball handling by working it all offseason but it's still so shaky against any pressure

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That's why I smh anytime people say Flagler is our PG. Not a knock on Flagler at all, but he is a scoring guard. Since we have no true PG I originally thought Grimes would get a lot of minutes at PG or even start, but they are redshirting him to stagger his eligibility with Bonner and Flagler, which makes sense.

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Love Flagler and thought he could have that breakout in skills when Mitchell came back after working all offseason but it hasn't happened. He is a pace guy and a natural scorer off the ball. Struggles against anyone speeding him up right now.

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George is a much bigger problem than Flagler currently.

Against Virginia, UCLA and Marquette, Flagler has averaged 17.6 points while shooting 44.7 percent from the field and 52.2 percent from 3, to go with 4.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.3 turnovers per game.

Those are good numbers.

By contrast, in those same games, George averaged 12 points on 35.1 percent shooting and 23.5 percent from 3, with 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 4.3 turnovers per game.

Those are really bad numbers.

To be a really good team, we need waaaaayyyyyy more from George than he's giving us right now.

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That wasn't the question. That doesn't address the problem or the comment. That is deflection. Everyone can clearly see George is struggling badly and it is becoming a big problem. Ill take it as conceding the point.

And again.. never said it was even close to the biggest problem on what is currently a deeply flawed poor coached team right now. Defense is obviously #1, #2, and #3. But making a comment about something obvious as its happening over and over is pretty standard during a game. Never said it was the top problem.

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It's not deflection at all. This team plays point guard committee, with Flagler and George handling the bulk of the ball-handling. One of those guys has done his job in big games. The other has been exposed as an overwhelmed freshman.

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My only issue is that feels really unfair to Akinjo who despite all his flaws when healthy could at least get to the rim and score against anyone, something I've yet to see George do.

George has made zero progression since we saw him in the summer and his attitude/demeanor at least watching from a TV looks really bad. Not selfish like akinjo just frustrated and ready to quit.

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I don't want to pile on George too much. He's super talented and seems like a good kid. But when a guy comes in with that kind of hype and is inserted into that kind of role, he's got to perform. And so far, the game has been too big for him against good teams.

But I'm not a big one-and-done guy in general. I got roasted for saying this last year, but most freshmen aren't ready physically, mentally or emotionally to dominate grown men in high-major Division I college basketball. So in most cases, you're going to get an unfinished, frustrating player for one season and be replacing that roster spot the next.

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This unrealistic mindset for a one-and-done player is the reason so many people complained about KB last year and George this year. It's unfair to say "he's got to perform" and "dominate grown men." I think the reason for George's struggles is the kind of role he's expected to perform, immediately thrown into the fire as the alpha and the focus of every opposing defense. By contrast look at Sochan last year, he wasn't expected to immediately dominate. Hell, he didn't even have to start for us. He had a low-usage role and could kind of blend in and grow gradually with so much talent around him. He started the year as a role player and little by little grew into a star by the time the tourney rolled around. If we had a true PG to complement George and take the pressure off him, he would be much more efficient and there would be much less complaining about him.

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If those players aren't ready to be impact players, they're bad takes. Plain and simple. You're not recruiting one-year players to be patient with them. If they don't perform, they're wasting time that could be spent developing a three- or four-year player who would almost certainly have a bigger impact on your program.

One-and-dones come with the same expectations as transfers. They're being brought in to fill a specific role. If they're not up to it, that's a problem.

And just for the record, I haven't given up on George by any stretch. But he hasn't been nearly as good as we need him to be to reach our ceiling. If he doesn't improve dramatically, this team will underachieve.

Also, if we had George in a limited role or playing beside a ball-dominant point guard that relegated him to a wing player, he wouldn't be at Baylor. He came here because he wanted to be "the guy" and we put him in a situation where he could be.

It's not the expectations of fans that are the problem -- I have a more realistic view of freshman players and their likely impact than anyone. It's the expectations of these one-and-done players themselves. Most of them think they're better players than they really are.

IowaBear said:

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Got roasted last time I said and I'll say it again. We have 3 guys who can score the rock that's it. Cryer, Flagler, and George. Flo and Bridges give us nothing offensively. The bench is the same way. We're going to have to consistently rely on 3 dudes to score 70% of our points. Not a great recipe when you need 80 to win most nights because your defense is one of the worst in the country

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If we're being fair, most teams get the bulk of their scoring from three or four players. And our three are better scorers than what most teams have.

We could use more production from our front court certainly, but the offense is just not a major issue. It had a bad night last night, but we could have scored 90 and still lost by multiple possessions. All of our biggest issues are on the defensive end.

Oh I'm aware the bull is from 3-4 guys. But when you get virtually nothing from your 4-5 every big gsme that's an issue. Defense is without a shadow of a doubt the biggest issue. But we have a team so bad on defense we're going to have to outscore opponents with games likely into the 80s on the regular. That's a ton of pressure on 3 guys. That's my main point.

IowaBear said:

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Oh I'm aware the bull is from 3-4 guys. But when you get virtually nothing from your 4-5 every big gsme that's an issue. Defense is without a shadow of a doubt the biggest issue. But we have a team so bad on defense we're going to have to outscore opponents with games likely into the 80s on the regular. That's a ton of pressure on 3 guys. That's my main point.

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I'll agree that our front court is looking very lean right now. Flo is what he is, but I thought Lohner and Bridges would perform substantially better than they have. I was wrong in my expectations of those guys clearly.

I hadn't watched Bridges a ton. But I read the WV boards after he transferred to hear their thoughts. And everything they've said has rang true. "Sees himself as a 2" "low motor" "disappears in big games" all things that have rang true. I'll never question Drew's evaluation of talent. He's the master of that. But I do question bringing in a guy who thinks he's a 2 when we do badly needed a 4