Gameday Thread: #3 Seed Baylor vs #2 Seed Iowa State

Lets end this thing quickly and mercifully in the first round and let these guys concentrate on their nba careers ,,,,need to get behind softball...

Jayman1963 said:

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Difference in the game was three pointers: they went 10-20 and we were 5-24

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3-point shooting and turnovers. We can't win shooting like that or turning the ball over the way we did.

Walter and Nunn were particularly ghastly.

Props to the forwards for showing up. Bridges missed some shots, but he played with great effort and finished with a double-double, and Lohner was excellent in his bench role.

We need to do some soul searching over the next few days. This effort tonight won't beat anyone in the NCAA tournament.

bear2be2 said:

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Jayman1963 said:

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Difference in the game was three pointers: they went 10-20 and we were 5-24

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3-point shooting and turnovers. We can't win shooting like that or turning the ball over the way we did.

Walter and Nunn were particularly ghastly.

Props to the forwards for showing up. Bridges missed some shots, but he played with great effort and finished with a double-double, and Lohner was excellent in his bench role.

We need to do some soul searching over the next few days. This effort tonight won't beat anyone in the NCAA tournament.

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Good point, bear2, I should have mentioned turnovers too - unfortunately turnovers have been a problem all season and that won't fly in the Big Dance.

Fre3dombear said:

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Walter is actually regressing from a low level.

Hope he has a short memory next week

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It's a Catch 22 for college coaches. Despite my saying we should get out of the McD all American arms race, I think coaches participate because 1 and done means your program put another player in the NBA. Of course that can backfire on you if some of them are duds. In reality, what happens is most 1 and dones don't really pan out until a few years with the big boys ... i.e. Jared Allen Texas/Cavaliers. Probably due to physical maturity plus more competition from foreign born players entering the draft. So, basically very few college coaches should be taking credit and saying "Yeah I put *that* guy in the league". So why take the risk by giving them a place to showcase their very raw skills that won't be useful for at least a couple of years?

After watching most games this season, the good news is this team has by and large bounced back from a poor game with decent stretches of consistency.
Not sure what's going on at the start of these games - as this team seems to start slow whether home or away.
Hopefully we get some decent match-ups in the draw and at least two of our shooters find their strokes.

The Bears are focused on what's next.

"We wanted to win the Big 12 tournament, felt like we had the pieces to do it, but didn't go our way and so now our mindset is on trying to win the last game of the year." pic.twitter.com/CdDLA6HmzG

— Darby Brown (@darbyjobrown) March 16, 2024

Low-key relieved we are headed back to Waco, and pretty sure CSD is too. Honestly the juice not worth the squeeze. Instead of being forced to play 3 games in a row, getting beat up by a physical Houston team, we get another day to mentally and physically prepare for the games that matter. Sic e'm.

Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Low-key relieved we are headed back to Waco, and pretty sure CSD is too. Honestly the juice not worth the squeeze. Instead of being forced to play 3 games in a row, getting beat up by a physical Houston team, we get another day to mentally and physically prepare for the games that matter. Sic e'm.

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I'm not upset we lost, but the way we lost can't be interpreted as anything but a bad thing. We didn't even compete.

Got off to our usual listless start and piddled around for 40 minutes, like we weren't even interested in being there. That effort last night gets you sent home in the first round of the NCAA tournament, much less the first weekend.

It was disappointing to see a team with supposed championship aspirations look like it didn't even belong on the floor with a very tough, disciplined and well-coached but not exceptionally talented Iowa State team.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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We are headed to a 3 seed and have had a wildly successful season in the toughest conference in America. Our fans have become so spoiled and entitled, it's sickening.

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Wildly successful is hyperbole. It's been a successful regular season. Wildly successful should be reserved for campaigns that end with conference hardware and/or a deep tournament run.

I would normally feel the same away about suck a lackluster effort, but this has always been CSD's M.O. in the big 12 tourney. Even our 2021 Natty year we didn't even advance past the first game. Holding out Love was a powerful tell regarding CSD's motivation to advance past ISU.

Iowa State similar to Houston in build on culture, defense and toughness.

Both also start with terrific point guard play. https://t.co/AvUBRferKf

— Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) March 16, 2024

WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

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This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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We will be a 3 seed which is a monster success when you zoom out historically and look at our program over the past decades. Thank God for CSD and be grateful that making the tournament has become a routine annual occurrence under his leadership.

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Totally agree. We are in almost every single year, and quite often have a good enough team to make a run. Sometimes, we make that run.

Drew has built an elite program.

bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

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Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

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Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

bear2be2 said:

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Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

---

Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

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I love this point. It honestly made me think and consider the best runs in our program 2010-2012 and 2019-2022 have not been characterized by one and dones.

The correlation of the best runs under drew are savvy experienced teams. Drew needs to get back to working on building those.

Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion.

Russell Gym said:

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Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion.

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Fair enough. And same here.

bear2be2 said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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We are headed to a 3 seed and have had a wildly successful season in the toughest conference in America. Our fans have become so spoiled and entitled, it's sickening.

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Wildly successful is hyperbole. It's been a successful regular season. Wildly successful should be reserved for campaigns that end with conference hardware and/or a deep tournament run.

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Agreed.

2020 was "wildly successful" in that it was the best we had ever had (ranked #1 for 5 weeks, winning in Lawrence, & a Big 12 record 23 game winning streak helped).

2021 was also "wildly successful" because it was even better. Any season that ends with a natty deserves that label.

We have not had a "wildly successful" season since then. We've had games or stretches that one might describe that way but that label is a superlative. The best that can be said is that we have been moderately successful since the natty. I trust Drew can bring us to "wildly successful" again but it might take some time as everyone navigates NIL & the portal.

I think Wright as a PG for 3-4 years is a big win. It's really hard to rely on a one year transfer or freshman that is gone in one year to carry your team. From all accounts he is a really scorer and distributor. We desperately need a scorer at Pg. see is is really good butt not as much as an outside threat to keep defenses honest.

bear2be2 said:

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Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

---

Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

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I hate to quibble, but by that metric no one is elite. How many blue bloods failed to achieve those goals in some years, or even for a stretch of 2-3 years? How many didn't even make the tournament in a given season? (One recent season had multiple left out including Duke & Kentucky). Baylor is elite because we still are getting 20+ wins per season (while playing a tough ooc schedule) & finishing near the top of the best conference in the country year after year. Yes, we want hardware & banners and don't get them. But we do contend for them and definitely are in the conversation each year.

This year, we finished above .500 in league play which is very good, under the circumstances.

Has crazy good skills. Butler level offensive skills with better passing as a more natural pg. Size limitations only thing keeping him from obvious one and done which should work in our favor

Quinton said:

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Has crazy good skills. Butler level offensive skills with better passing as a more natural pg. Size limitations only thing keeping him from obvious one and done which should work in our favor

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Looks like maybe the sweet spot for us. NBA level ability who can elevate our program, but measurables preventing from being one-and-done.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

---

Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

---

I hate to quibble, but by that metric no one is elite. How many blue bloods failed to achieve those goals in some years, or even for a stretch of 2-3 years? How many didn't even make the tournament in a given season? (One recent season had multiple left out including Duke & Kentucky). Baylor is elite because we still are getting 20+ wins per season (while playing a tough ooc schedule) & finishing near the top of the best conference in the country year after year. Yes, we want hardware & banners and don't get them. But we do contend for them and definitely are in the conversation each year.

This year, we finished above .500 in league play which is very good, under the circumstances.

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Everyone gets upset from time to time. But when early tournament exits become a trend, you're not elite. Everyone bags on Kansas. They have never had three first-weekend exits in a row under Bill Self. When you can expect a run to the Sweet 16 or better that regularly, you're elite.

Our fans also trash programs like Gonzaga and Houston, which have literally had entire classes of players go their entire careers without losing in the first weekend of a tournament. That's a level of consistency we've never achieved.

Our national title run was awesome. But it was an outlier for our program. That's our only Final Four appearance, and you have to go back to 2012 to find our last Elite Eight run before that.

We have a really good program. This is not meant to denigrate what we've done. But we're not elite. Our regular season success and consistency makes us a top 15 program. But you have to win in March to be elite, and we haven't done that consistently.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Quinton said:

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Has crazy good skills. Butler level offensive skills with better passing as a more natural pg. Size limitations only thing keeping him from obvious one and done which should work in our favor

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Looks like maybe the sweet spot for us. NBA level ability who can elevate our program, but measurables preventing from being one-and-done.

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A la Tweety Carter -- our first McDonald's All-American. I'd love to have a point guard contribute for four years again like we had with Tweety. Wright and Little could be a really good combo if we can keep them around for a few years together.

bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

---

Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

---

I hate to quibble, but by that metric no one is elite. How many blue bloods failed to achieve those goals in some years, or even for a stretch of 2-3 years? How many didn't even make the tournament in a given season? (One recent season had multiple left out including Duke & Kentucky). Baylor is elite because we still are getting 20+ wins per season (while playing a tough ooc schedule) & finishing near the top of the best conference in the country year after year. Yes, we want hardware & banners and don't get them. But we do contend for them and definitely are in the conversation each year.

This year, we finished above .500 in league play which is very good, under the circumstances.

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Everyone gets upset from time to time. But when early tournament exits become a trend, you're not elite. Everyone bags on Kansas. They have never had three first-weekend exits in a row under Bill Self. When you can expect a run to the Sweet 16 or better every that regularly, you're elite.

Our fans also trash programs like Gonzaga and Houston, which have literally had entire classes of players go their entire careers without losing in the first weekend of a tournament. That's a level of consistency we've never achieved.

Our national title run was awesome. But it was outlier for our program. That's our only Final Four appearance, and you have to go back to 2012 to find our last Elite Eight run before that.

We have a really good program. This is not meant to denigrate what we've done. But we're not elite. Our regular season success and consistency makes us a top 15 program. But you have to win in March to be elite, and we haven't done that consistently.

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Kansas has also never had 8 conference losses in a single season before.

I guess it all depends on how one defines "elite".

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Russell Gym said:

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bear2be2 said:

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WA Jim said:

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Well, hate to say I called it - 1 win in the Conference tournament and now my call of one in win in the national tournament has me a little nervous. But we will get one and then get bounced. Broken record, but we don't play good defense, we don't rebound well at the defensive end. So, when we turn the ball over and we send up bricks, we lose. It's that simple. I have been pretty negative on this team all year - maybe a little unfairly. But they just are soooo frustrating to watch with all the bonehead mistakes, bad defense and freshman follies. We need more big tough enforcer guys like Rico and Vital and less one and done dudes.

---

This team, like last year's, is good. But there's a cavernous gap separating it from greatness.

It has glaring, ceiling-lowering and apparently unfixable flaws that have literally persisted all season. It's made for a frustrating watch and will likely make for a disappointing March.

I hope these guys surprise me, but I see the Sweet Sixteen as being our ceiling at this point and I have serious doubts we'll get that far.

---

Amongst the best programs in the country, all but four fan bases will be frustrated and experience a disappointing March. Maybe all but one.

But, I'd rather be an elite program with that high bar for disappointment - instead of our wilderness year from 1951 to Drew's success.

---

Everyone would prefer that. But elite is reserved for a level of success that we have only sporadically enjoyed -- and deep runs in March are a requirement. Our fans toss that term around too loosely.

Scott Drew has done an amazing job with our program. But the only stretch in his time here where we were truly elite was 2020-22. We flirted with it in one off seasons before that and have reverted back to a notch below that since.

---

I hate to quibble, but by that metric no one is elite. How many blue bloods failed to achieve those goals in some years, or even for a stretch of 2-3 years? How many didn't even make the tournament in a given season? (One recent season had multiple left out including Duke & Kentucky). Baylor is elite because we still are getting 20+ wins per season (while playing a tough ooc schedule) & finishing near the top of the best conference in the country year after year. Yes, we want hardware & banners and don't get them. But we do contend for them and definitely are in the conversation each year.

This year, we finished above .500 in league play which is very good, under the circumstances.

---

Everyone gets upset from time to time. But when early tournament exits become a trend, you're not elite. Everyone bags on Kansas. They have never had three first-weekend exits in a row under Bill Self. When you can expect a run to the Sweet 16 or better every that regularly, you're elite.

Our fans also trash programs like Gonzaga and Houston, which have literally had entire classes of players go their entire careers without losing in the first weekend of a tournament. That's a level of consistency we've never achieved.

Our national title run was awesome. But it was outlier for our program. That's our only Final Four appearance, and you have to go back to 2012 to find our last Elite Eight run before that.

We have a really good program. This is not meant to denigrate what we've done. But we're not elite. Our regular season success and consistency makes us a top 15 program. But you have to win in March to be elite, and we haven't done that consistently.

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Kansas has also never had 8 conference losses in a single season before.

I guess it all depends on how one defines "elite".

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This year's Kansas team isn't a vintage Jayhawks squad. We've been talking about that here all season long. But if we're trying to argue that that's not an elite program or that we're their equal based on one "down" year, what are we even doing here?