Gameday Thread: No. 17 Baylor Returns Home to Face New Orleans

What will we work on today boys? I vote defense!

VJ slowly becoming our best defender

vj had missed so many easy lays this year

Bearsalwayswin said:

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vj had missed so many easy lays this year

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Yep, his finishing ability is shot right now. I knew he would struggle early with the jumper but the finishes are suprising.

he is good on the defensive side of the ball. seems that one and dones seem to be really solid on one side of the ball but pretty rudimentary on the other side

You can book it every year. No one beats the hell out of undermanned opponents as well as we do. We shoot lights out and just run them off the floor.

Is VJ ok? He didn't come out of the locker room at the half. Wondering if they said anything on the radio broadcast

Sic'em.
I don't think I can watch this anymore. Too boring.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Definitely putting on a 3 point shooting clinic today.

WacoKelly83 said:

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Is VJ ok? He didn't come out of the locker room at the half. Wondering if they said anything on the radio broadcast

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The same hamstring probably. Has been playing through it but is the most nagging injury in the game if you don't give it time to heal.

Beat me to it. Hopefully he didn't aggravate it. Let him get 100% for uconn.

I saw him stretching his back right before the half. Hopefully just a back strain

3 point defense really bad again. Letting a lower level team shoot 40+ is just crazy.

Our program has reached an interesting place. We're basically impervious to a major upset -- we overwhelm/destroy every team that is significantly less talented than we are -- but every game against a high-major tournament-quality team is a 50-50 proposition.

We're basically guaranteed to reach the Round of 32 while simultaneously being a bad bet to go any farther than that. Things could certainly be worse -- and they are for most other programs -- but it's kind of a frustrating limbo to be in.

I am not criticizing, I am sure we are working in different combos, etc., but I will never really understand the point of playing only SEVEN players in what was almost a 40 point game until we REALLY started coasting 4-5 minutes ago. Too many minutes in my view. Just went outside the 7 guys(with VJ out) at 1:49…..

Quinton said:

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3 point defense really bad again. Letting a lower level team shoot 40+ is just crazy.

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Currently #351 out of #364 total D1 teams in 3 point FG% defense. Can't get much worse.

It's a legit question and quite honestly doesn't make a ton of sense

Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want a core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

Everyone (including the walk ons) played except for Asemota. Either he is a head case, really bad at practice, injured or the recruiting experts really whiffed on him as a 4 star.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Everyone (including the walk ons) played except for Asemota. Either he is a head case, really bad at practice, injured or the recruiting experts really whiffed on him as a 4 star.

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I don't get it. A team with two playable bigs should be doing everything it can to develop a viable third front court option.

I don't see any way Asemota becomes that by conference time without some game experience in nonconference play. And he's really the only candidate on our roster.

bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

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Everyone can keep trying to convince me how great Edgecombe is and maybe he will be a NBA all star one day, but Robert Wright runs circles around him as a ready to play college basketball player and will at the end of the year as well.

FFA0329 said:

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I am not criticizing, I am sure we are working in different combos, etc., but I will never really understand the point of playing only SEVEN players in what was almost a 40 point game until we REALLY started coasting 4-5 minutes ago. Too many minutes in my view. Just went outside the 7 guys(with VJ out) at 1:49…..

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I really hope I'm wrong but wonder if we have a player on the way out (portal wise).

I could be wrong but wasn't Asemota the one many thought would decommit for quite awhile?

This is how we recruit our 5 stars though. They all come in oozing with upside/athleticism. But none have been polished. That trend is continuing next year with the 5 star already committed. We just don't chase the polished 5 stars like McNeeley in VJs class as an example

IowaBear said:

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I could be wrong but wasn't Asemota the one many thought would decommit for quite awhile?

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It was heavily rumored he was gonna decommit and go to ASU instead.

IowaBear said:

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I could be wrong but wasn't Asemota the one many thought would decommit for quite awhile?

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I hope we are both wrong, but if a guy is on the fence, I'm a 100% ok with him riding the bench.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

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Everyone can keep trying to convince me how great Edgecombe is and maybe he will be a NBA all star one day, but Robert Wright runs circles around him as a currently as a ready to play college basketball player and will at the end of the year as well.

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Agreed. And this is the third year in four since our national title that our blue-chip, one-and-done freshman wasn't even the best first-year player on our team. And the one who was -- Keyonte George -- will likely end up being less valuable to the program than the two freshmen he shared a class with -- Langston Love and Josh O.

At some point, we should probably take a hard look in the mirror and really evaluate our return on investment with this current recruiting strategy.

bear2be2 said:

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Our program has reached an interesting place. We're basically impervious to a major upset -- we overwhelm/destroy every team that is significantly less talented than we are -- but every game against a high-major tournament-quality team is a 50-50 proposition.

We're basically guaranteed to reach the Round of 32 while simultaneously being a bad bet to go any farther than that. Things could certainly be worse -- and they are for most other programs -- but it's kind of a frustrating limbo to be in.

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This sounds like the Dallas Cowboys of the last 3-4 years (this year excluded). I don't like that trajectory!

bear2be2 said:

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At some point, we should probably take a hard look in the mirror and really evaluate our return on investment with this current recruiting strategy.

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I get that the allure of the 5 star syndrome is difficult for any coach to give up but if Duke fails miserably this year then I think everyone should take a look at it. All the Final 4's since 2019 have been primarily comprised of teams with older, established players. Very few were built with 1 and done strategies. The transfer portal and immediate eligibility has magnified this as you can build a team with grown ass men instead of uber athletic kids who may be great stars one day, but can't deliver in the 1 year they are on campus. The ceiling for most of the schools that stockpile or have 5 star 1 and dones seem to be the Round of 32, which is where we have lived since '21. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that because it's better than not being in the tournament at all but it does appear that strategy has a ceiling to it.

Waaaay too early to write off Edgecombe and what he can do for us this year. His athleticism gives him a chance to be an impactful defender and hustle player. Kind of like a wing version of Missi with his ability to get weak side blocks and deflections. Offensively, would like to see fewer 3 point attempts. Otherwise I love everything I'm seeing from him.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

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Everyone can keep trying to convince me how great Edgecombe is and maybe he will be a NBA all star one day, but Robert Wright runs circles around him as a ready to play college basketball player and will at the end of the year as well.

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The frustrating part to me is VJ Edgecombe would be an absolute perfect hustle guy. But because of his pedigree, he's being shoehorned into a showcase role he doesn't have the basketball chops to handle efficiently.

With today's performance, he's now shooting 35.8 percent from the field and 26.7 percent from 3. And only today did Roach pass him for the most field goal attempts on the team.

We're basically repeating the exact same mistakes we did with George and Walter. We're not doing these freshmen any favors by exposing them beyond their levels of expertise. And we're actively hurting the team in most cases by doing so.

I don't understand why we can't do what most other elite programs do with elite freshman talent and mold them into the roles that best fit the team. If showcasing/overexposing these players is a condition of getting these guys on campus, I'd rather let them go elsewhere and go back to building our teams the way we did before the national title.

bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

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If we can find a version of Wright at every position, sure, we probably win titles. But its impossible to do. The leading players in the big 12 over the last few years were nothing like him coming out of school. They weren't as highly regarded and not nearly as good for their first couple years.

He'll be a two to three year player here and should be the best pg in the conference by that time. With physical develpment and defensive polish, he'll be special. But everyone knew Wrights limitations and ability early. Different case. Not many high schoolers as polished as him. If you can point out specific targets like that I'm sure everyone would be open to it. Butler is the last player we've had like that.

Most of the top players were underfollowed guys or guys who developed into great college players but it was far from a guarantee. Came down to coaching and developmement. Either way, Drew might be quietly going to your strategy as the 5 star we have is a pure energy and defensive guy with a huge motor. Sounds like we're bowing out for Peat (could be wrong) so would expect the portal and 4 star guys to be what he'll do.

bear2be2 said:

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Big12Fan2024 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wright should be our recruiting template -- elite, polished high school players that don't have NBA measurables.

The measurables aren't necessary to win at the college level -- as players like Drew Timme and Norchad Omier prove every year -- and polish goes way farther than raw athleticism/talent.

Give me polish over flash all day, every day. I want core of elite skill players surrounded by project athletes in the hustle roles.

---

Everyone can keep trying to convince me how great Edgecombe is and maybe he will be a NBA all star one day, but Robert Wright runs circles around him as a ready to play college basketball player and will at the end of the year as well.

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The frustrating part to me is VJ Edgecombe would be an absolute perfect hustle guy. But because of his pedigree, he's being shoehorned into a showcase role he doesn't have the basketball chops to handle efficiently.

With today's performance, he's now shooting 35.8 percent from the field and 26.7 percent from 3. And only today did Roach pass him for the most field goal attempts on the team.

We're basically repeating the exact same mistakes we did with George and Walter. We're not doing these freshmen any favors by exposing them beyond their levels of expertise. And we're actively hurting the team in most cases by doing so.

I don't understand why we can't do what most other elite programs do with elite freshman talent and mold them into the roles that best fit the team. If showcasing/overexposing these players is a condition of getting these guys on campus, I'd rather let them go elsewhere and go back to building our teams the way we did before the national title.

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I don't understand why elite freshman keep coming here, they come out lower draft picks than they were projected going in, yeah you get the minutes Drew promised you but they don't get materially better throughout the season. At some point you have to make a business decision that sure maybe Baylor's paying me slightly more than (idk use KU as an example) but the coaching I'm getting is going to cost me in the long run.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Waaaay too early to write off Edgecombe and what he can do for us this year. His athleticism gives him a chance to be an impactful defender and hustle player. Kind of like a wing version of Missi with his ability to get weak side blocks and deflections. Offensively, would like to see fewer 3 point attempts. Otherwise I love everything I'm seeing from him.

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It's not that he can't be a good or impactful player. It's that he can't be an efficient player with his current usage rate -- which is just repeating our experience with Keyonte George and Ja'Kobe Walter.

We've become a Peter Principle program. We're electively promoting these freshmen players past the point of their competency and seem surprised every year that the results end up the same.

If we're going to continue to chase five-star freshman, we need to have the internal discipline to force them into roles more suitable for their current skill levels. Otherwise, it's just going to be the same movie on repeat year after year after year.