Luka Doncic traded...

44,128 Views | 444 Replies | Last: 21 days ago by Mitch Blood Green
EatMoreSalmon
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Mavs in green....
Stefano DiMera
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Kyrie out for season. Torn ACL.
boognish_bear
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Stefano DiMera said:

Kyrie out for season. Torn ACL.
Might as well shut down AD for the season. If there is a surgery that can help keep that issues from being a lingering issue he should go ahead and get that now.
GoodOleBaylorLine
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ACL has 9 to 12 month recovery. With Kyrie's age, guessing that will be closer to 12,

So next season looks shot too. No time to build chemistry and then squeaking into the POs if they make it at all.

Kyrie's contract up next season (assuming he takes player option this year).

AD has a player option going into 26-27.

If they stay, 26-27 is your all the marbles year. If not, might as well start rebuilding. Flip AD and Klay for whatever you can get.

Not sure it really matters whether you play AD this season. I guess you can tank since they have their #1 pick. They'll got nowhere near Flagg, but could get into the top 10.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Ty Nico

boognish_bear
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From a Hornets fan … But seems relevant to Mavs fans now too

Bear8084
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Mothra
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Method Man said:

boognish_bear said:

Method Man said:

bear2be2 said:

boognish_bear said:

Last year the Mavs were ranked #20 in Scoring Defense. On the way to the NBA Finals they knocked off T'Wolves #1 in Scoring Defense, Clippers #10 in SD, and Thunder #11 in SD. Of course we want a better defense....but we beat 3 teams in the playoffs that had better defensive rankings.

I don't think we can assume just because the Mavs didn't win the Finals last year that meant they had hit their ceiling under Luka. Often times teams get close several times before finally breaking through.

In 21-22 the Celtics finished #2 in the Eastern Conf and went on to lose in the NBA Finals to the Warriors 2-4. In 22-23 the Celtics again finished #2 in the Eastern Conf and then got beat in the Conf Finals to the Heat 3-4. Then of course last year they finally broke through and got their Title.

We were possibly seeing a similar trajectory with the Mavs making the Conf Finals in 2022 and then the NBA Finals in 2024. We never got to see what this new roster construction with Klay, Grimes, Naji, and a second year Lively could do with Luka at the helm.

Luka isn't Jordan....but Jordan did not win his first NBA Title until his 7th season. Three years in a row from '87-'90 the Bulls got bounced by the Pistons before finally breaking through for their first Title in '91. Luka is now in his 7th season.
The Celtics were the best team in the NBA by far in 2024. Anyone who watched them play in the playoffs knew this.

If the Mavericks had somehow knocked them off to win the championship, it would have rivaled Dirk's 2011 run as one of the most unlikely in the recent history of the NBA.

That Luka took that bunch to the finals is a feather in his cap. Those trying to turn the loss to Boston into any other sort of narrative are idiots.


There might be a better way to construct a team that can annually contend for the NBA title.




Annually? This thing now has a shelf life of maybe 2 or 3 years...and no draft capital. And if AD is out for the season with surgery you can shorten that by one year.
This current team has a shelf life of 25, 26 and 27....and our out of shape, non defense playing superstar has caused the 24-25 Mavericks to be a .500 team.

All the potential in the world means nothing if you are not available to play.
Hard to think of a take that has aged more poorly than this one in the history of these boards. In my 25 years on this board, this take is right up there on the Baylorfans Mt. Rushmore of bad takes.
boognish_bear
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It's just comedy now. The season cannot end soon enough. Sadly… It doesn't feel like much hope for next season either.

Sports fan hell for Mavs and Cowboys fans.

boognish_bear
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I don't disagree… But damn that is funny/sad

Mothra
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What an incredibly depressing read if you're a Mavs fan. And spot on:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/anthony-davis-has-played-31-minutes-for-the-mavericks-and-they-probably-already-need-to-trade-him/

The most charitable possible explanation for the Luka Doni trade -- and this was already a stretch -- was that it improved the team's short-term prospects. Nico Harrison told us as much when he said, "The future to me is three to four years from now" in his post-trade press conference. Anthony Davis, though not nearly as valuable as Doni, complements Kyrie Irving quite well. Max Christie has already played well in Dallas, and the extra first-round pick gained gave Dallas another chip to use for further upgrades over the summer. That still probably didn't make the post-Doni Mavericks better than the pre-Doni Mavericks, but a justification existed if you were willing to look for it hard enough.

Well, Year No. 1 of that theoretical window went up in smoke on Monday when Kyrie Irving tore his left ACL. It's entirely possible that Year No. 2 is gone as well. There's not exactly a fixed timeline for ACL recoveries. Consider the cases of Iman Shumpert and Derrick Rose. The two of them both tore ACLs on the same day: April 28, 2012. Shumpert was back on the court by Jan. 17, 2013. Rose did not play a single minute during the 2012-13 season. Late-season ACL tears like theirs have derailed multiple seasons for several critical players. Jamal Murray tore his ACL on April 12, 2021, and did not return until the beginning of the 2022-23 season. Irving is in his 30s. He has a lengthy history of injuries, especially in the left knee, that includes his presently torn ligament. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Irving will play next season. Even if he does, the odds of him returning to full strength by the playoffs don't appear great.

That means the first season in which Dallas can reasonably expect to have its two pillars healthy from start to finish would be the 2026-27 campaign, the third year of that stated window. That will be Davis' age-33 season and Irving's age-34 year. Davis himself has a lengthy history of injuries. He has thus far played just 31 minutes in over a month as a Maverick. As bad as this looks now, it would only take one less-than-freak occurrence to make things a whole lot worse.

Could Dallas trade its way into a roster capable of holding down the fort until Irving returns? Well, maybe, but remember, they failed to extract every ounce of value from the Lakers in the Doni deal and are somewhat limited in what they can offer. They don't have a bad salary either. Any salary they use to match money on a possible acquisition is going to be attached to someone they'd miss. Say they want to chase Kevin Durant, as was reported at the deadline. He's owed $54.7 million next season. It would take three or four good players to match money there, and even if they did, they'd be bringing in another aging, injury-prone star.

In short, we're looking at maybe one or two years of winning here on the GM's own timeline. After that, things get dark. Not just on the basketball court, but within the entire framework of the organization's place in professional basketball. The Mavericks have already lost a substantial amount of fan support in the wake of the Doni deal. They're probably going to lose more of it after they decided to raise season-ticket prices on Monday. Their push to win before this season also cost them quite a bit of their future. Dallas doesn't control its own first-round picks between 2027 and 2030. When this core ages out, there won't be young prospects coming in to replace them.

That's bad enough, but they get even worse when you consider where those picks are going. The 2028 pick is owed to the San Antonio Spurs through a swap. The 2029 pick is likely to go to the Houston Rockets outright. The 2030 pick is headed to the Oklahoma City Thunder through a swap. Two of those teams play in the same state as the Mavericks. The third is geographically closer to them than either the Spurs or Rockets. These teams are, effectively, the three biggest regional competitors the Mavericks have for the loyalty of prospective basketball fans. Those three teams also happen to have three of the most promising young rosters in the NBA. Guess which teams fans in that part of the country are going to flock to as this Dallas situation continues to deteriorate? It's either them or Doni's Lakers, who have never had trouble attracting fans outside of their home market.

This is not just a basketball issue. This is an existential crisis for the Mavericks, the sort that can make or break a team's standing in the league for decades. What this team does in the next few transaction cycles is going to determine whether or not the city of Dallas will ever embrace the Mavericks again. And what they should do, as soon as humanly possible, is clear: trade Anthony Davis.

Let's make this clear from the jump: none of this is Davis' fault. The overwhelming majority of teams would be thrilled to have him. The Mavericks are simply in the middle of a wholly unique mess of their own creation, one in which Davis makes sense neither off the court nor on it. To an extraordinarily angry fanbase, Davis is fighting an uphill battle. Short of potentially winning a championship, there is little he can do to shed the label of "the player we have instead of Luka Doni."

[url=https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kyrie-irving-injury-puts-mavericks-in-an-unimaginably-grim-position-both-short-and-long-term/][/url]What Dallas needs, more than anything, is a fresh start, a new young player for the fan base to rally around. They have a very brief window to find that player. Jasmyn Wimbish explained in detail why it's time for the Mavericks to tank here, but here's the short explanation: Dallas has two chances left to control its own pick this decade. After the 2026 draft, they have no safe way to position themselves to add a notable young player. Their pick this year, given the injuries they've endured, will almost certainly be at the backend of the lottery. If they can weaken the roster enough, their pick next year could be closer to the front of it. Their next chance to do so after 2026 won't come until 2031.

Two lottery picks guarantee nothing, but remember, trading Davis would do more than just weaken next year's team. Such a deal would presumably net an impressive haul in its own right. Not nearly the sort of return teams would have given up for Doni, but, well, Davis is already a sunk cost. This is where the Mavericks stand today. The 10-year Doni window is closed. Most of the three-or-four-year Davis and Irving window is now closed, and it's no certainty that it ever re-opens. The Mavericks made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. Two lottery picks plus whatever they can get back for Davis and their other veterans may not be a slam dunk of a rebuild, but given the grim outlook this win-now plan faces after Irving's injury, it's still the best this team can do.

It helps that a rebuild wouldn't be fully starting from scratch. The Mavericks have at least two youngsters with considerable upside in Dereck Lively and Max Christie. Jaden Hardy is going to benefit from the on-ball opportunities Irving's absence creates, and he's locked into an extremely favorable contract. These are players who could be part of the next winning Mavericks team, but none are equipped to lead the Mavericks into the post-Davis and Irving future. That's what they're going to have to do if Dallas stays the course here.
The most obvious roadblock here is Harrison. He bet his career on Davis. It seems almost impossible to imagine him giving up the star he wanted badly enough to trade away Doni. But we're not writing about what's best for Nico Harrison. We're writing about what's best for the Dallas Mavericks. And if Nico Harrison stands in the way of what's best for the Dallas Mavericks, then Nico Harrison should no longer be the general manager of the Dallas Mavericks.

There's plenty of justification for a leadership change already. The job of a general manager is to position his team for both the present and the future. It's hard to imagine any general manager who openly dismisses a future beyond four years well-suited for the job. A report from Tim Cato of DLLS even surfaced suggesting that Harrison is not planning to hold the job for the long haul. If that is indeed the case, even letting Harrison make the trade was irresponsible on the ownership's part. The goals of a general manager and an organization need to be aligned. It's not clear that they are in Dallas. And from a fan retention perspective, moving on from Harrison might be a necessary step. The trust between city and franchise has been broken. The first step in mending it would be installing someone the fan base does trust in the GM seat moving forward.

Where does Irving fit into this? He still has a surprising amount of leverage. He has a player option for next season. Whether he's capable of playing or not, the Mavericks have to re-sign him. The notion of letting him walk for nothing when the entire team was just retrofitted around his timeline is simply untenable. As low as this team's championship odds with Davis already are, they drop to zero if Irving isn't part of the team. Even hurt, he is far and away the most popular Maverick today. If there's any lingering goodwill with the fans here whatsoever, it dies if Irving leaves.

There's a reasonable compromise for both sides here. Rudy Gobert gave them a template when he declined his $46.6 million 2025-26 player option to re-sign in Minnesota for $109.5 million over three years. Doing so lowered his immediate cap hit, but guaranteed him long-term money. Irving, given the risk of entering free agency in 2026 coming off of an ACL tear, would probably be amenable to something like that, and by locking him in long-term, the Mavericks would probably have an easier time convincing him to be cautious when it comes to his recovery timeline. If they're tanking, it doesn't make sense to play him next season anyway. His best chance at returning anywhere near an All-Star level would be with the 19-month recovery timeline skipping year would create, and that would give the Mavericks a chance to immediately become relatively competitive as soon as they stand to give away picks. The last thing anyone in this organization should want would be giving the Thunder, Rockets or Spurs high draft picks.

What sort of market would Davis garner if he was made available? Not the one Doni would have had the Mavericks shopped him properly, but still a considerable one. Houston stands out as the ideal suitor, given its depth of assets and its ability to send Dallas its own 2029 pick back. Golden State has been interested in the past and still controls the bulk of its future draft capital. The same could be said for Sacramento, who sorely needs a rim-protector to pair with Domantas Sabonis. Speaking of teams needing rim protection, an under-the-radar option might be Phoenix. Durant is almost certainly headed out over the summer, so perhaps there is a three-way construction that pairs Davis with Devin Booker and turns Durant into a younger asset for Dallas. Davis remains an All-NBA-caliber player. Finding him a home wouldn't be difficult.

That home just shouldn't be in Dallas. It never should have been in Dallas. If Dallas was ever going to trade Doni, it should have been for the sort of package that a star typically nets: one loaded with young players and draft picks. This harebrained win-now-without-the-second-best-player-in-the-NBA scheme never made sense from the start, and the Irving injury only underlined the risk that Dallas didn't seem to know it was taking. It's time for the Mavericks to cut their losses and start over. As unappealing as that might sound, it's a far brighter future than the one they're headed for when the Davis-Irving era inevitably peters out.

boognish_bear
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I think there are some good ideas in that article and it definitely makes sense to cut bait right now.

But for this franchise to have any help right now it starts with firing Nico. I'm not sure the ownership group has any interest in doing that.
boognish_bear
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Stefano DiMera
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Mavs assistant Alex Jensen to the Big 12 and his alma mater to take over at Utah .

Jason Kidd rapidly losing assistants...the Slovenian asst quit after the Luka trade..

And Darrell Armstrong arrested for domestic violence a few weeks ago.
Mothra
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Stefano DiMera said:

Mavs assistant Alex Jensen to the Big 12 and his alma mater to take over at Utah .

Jason Kidd rapidly losing assistants...the Slovenian asst quit after the Luka trade..

And Darrell Armstrong arrested for domestic violence a few weeks ago.
If I believed in karma...
boognish_bear
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This could not have worked out any worse for Klay. It's got to sting even more seeing what GS is doing now.

GoodOleBaylorLine
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The only bright side is Klay is likely to get traded to a contender in the next couple of seasons. If Mavs are out of contention at the deadline in 2027, they've got to trade him.

GoodOleBaylorLine
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boognish_bear said:


But for this franchise to have any help right now it starts with firing Nico. I'm not sure the ownership group has any interest in doing that.

Actually, I think there is a good chance Nico is fired this off season.

But realistically, the first big move this ownership group makes will not be abandoned a couple of months later. Mavs are stuck with this bad gamble in order for Dumont to save face, even if Nico is gone. That probably does mean handing OKC, SA and Houston lottery picks at the end of this decade while the Mavs become the island of misfit toys. Of course, that's likely to be Las Vegas's problem at that point.
boognish_bear
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This is a bad sign that they are going to try and patch this rickety ship together and keep on sailing

boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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I wouldn't say he lets loose… But it's clear he disagrees like everyone else in the world other than Method Man

bear2be2
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GoodOleBaylorLine said:

boognish_bear said:


But for this franchise to have any help right now it starts with firing Nico. I'm not sure the ownership group has any interest in doing that.

Actually, I think there is a good chance Nico is fired this off season.

But realistically, the first big move this ownership group makes will not be abandoned a couple of months later. Mavs are stuck with this bad gamble in order for Dumont to save face, even if Nico is gone. That probably does mean handing OKC, SA and Houston lottery picks at the end of this decade while the Mavs become the island of misfit toys. Of course, that's likely to be Las Vegas's problem at that point.
We can only hope. I'd rather start over with an expansion franchise than give a single cent or game view to this ownership group.

I haven't watched a game since the trade and I won't going forward. The Mavs are dead to me until they're sold.

In the meantime, I'll marvel at the most calamitous case is instant karma in recent sports history. This organization deserves every bit of it for pulling off the modern day equivalent of the Red Sox selling Babe Ruth to the Yankees over money and bar fights.
GoodOleBaylorLine
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Meanwhile, the Mavs arena mate, the Dallas Stars, pull off a brilliant trade today. Jim Nill might be the best GM in sports with Nico probably being the worst.
Mothra
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boognish_bear said:

This is a bad sign that they are going to try and patch this rickety ship together and keep on sailing


How the hell are they going to sign him? Aren't they at the cap limit?
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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If your man is getting cooked at Medieval Times it's time to cut bait

Bear8084
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Guy sitting next to Nico:

boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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First of all… Don't trade a young generational talent. Second… If you're fool enough to trade him this is the way

boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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I don't think any of this is directed at the players… But the environment must really suck to play in

 
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