TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TS: " Yet, you base your faith upon popular consensus and opinion"

No, I do not, and more I don't know any Christian in person who does.

Are you confusing Christians and Kardassians?

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Are really saying no one's opinions, positions, or teachings have influenced your belief?

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No more than some people have influenced you. And your question is different from the assertion I answered. You said I and other Christians 'base your faith upon popular consensus ', which implies I/we just follow the crowd, which is unreasonable and distinctly untrue.

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Really? Think about it. I'm sure you were raised in some sect of Christianity. Catholic as I seem to recall? There is a huge focus in Christian education upon child indoctrination. That process is all about authority reinforcing the teachings and beliefs they want to instill in children. The same with the adults. They have whole programs centered around and focused on that goal called 'Sunday School'. Regular church services for adults are essentially focused on the same purpose of reinforcing belief through peer support and persuasive pressure. A major purpose of church attendance and indoctrination is for consensus and creating uniform belief and opinion.

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Sir, I did think about it. In fact, like may Christians I went through a time where I doubted by parents' beliefs and set out explore on my own. I have studied Atheism, Buddhism, even Satanism and Paganism.

My present beliefs are the result of a rigorous set of tests and evaluations of evidence. You seem to constantly assume that Christians simply accept what they are told as Children, which not only ignores people who come to Christ from non-Christian cultures, but also ignores the life-long learning and experience which almost everyone applies when choosing their adult identity.

Further, at least in my case I have never been one to follow the crowd. My career is one most people would not choose, my sports 'career' was not as an athlete but as an official (take a quick survey of your friends to see how many would want to work as a referee or umpire), my choice in friends has been selective and frankly front to back I have gone from 'odd' to 'nerd' to 'nobody', in part because I have never really felt like I had to be what someone else told me I should be.

The short version is that you appear to be projecting, TS. And doing so despite repeated advice that you are missing important data.

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Obviously not everyone embraces a religion as a child. There are many who become Christians, or Muslims as adults, either by conversion or initial belief. Most, however are raised in their beliefs, or grow up in the culture. What they all have in common is reinforcement, adult or child, through religious education and indoctrination. That almost always is through group persuasive teachings. How you interact with others as a referee is not the same as how you interact religiously. Religion is a cultural phenomenon, where members identify with the group.

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You're still ducking the point, you know ...

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No, just giving an answer you don't agree with.

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Wrong, and I notice you are still repeating unsupported claims you have been challenged on before.

It's bad enough you duck valid points, but to repeat assumptions just makes you look intellectually lazy, TS.

Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Creation of the earth, parting a sea, feeding 5,000, healing the blind, lepers, deaf, raising the dead - these are all in contradiction od science.

---

That's why they are called miracles. They are well documented and miracles continue to occur in every generation.

---

That you call them miracles does make them historical reality but miracles for 1st century disciples' eyes and ears were real.

---

Serious questions:

Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act
How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

TexasScientist said:

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Coke Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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It depends upon your definition of fine tuned. We're a part of fine tuned carbon based life, albeit imperfectly, fine tuned to survive on this particular planet. Fine tuned through evolution. It would be a miracle and surprising to find carbon based life in a universe incapable of supporting carbon based life. If God really wanted to create a miracle, he could if put man on Jupiter.

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I'm referring to the several cosmological constants that appear to be fine-tuned. I would have assumed a scientist would have looked into this long ago.

TexasScientist said:

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October 13, 1917 is another Catholic attempt to persuade followers with the lore of miracles. There is no objective evidence of a miracle occurring there, or any tent revival. All of these pseudo miracles have explanations. In this particular case, not everyone observed the same thing, or anything miraculous. There are natural explanations for those that did claim to see differing things. A miracle has no natural explanation. Show me someone who was documented clinically dead, embalmed, and crawled out of their crypt and is walking around today. Show me documented objective proof of someone who regrew an amputated arm or leg. Those would be miracles. Show me documented objective proof of someone who was decapitated, and had their head restored and is alive walking around today.

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With respect to Fatima, many non-believers and skeptics witnessed the events that day.

I could list young man that was brought back to life by Saint Don Bosco. I could list the young girl born with no pupils that got her sight at the age of 7 (who is still alive today) after she was healed by Saint Padre Pio. I could list the 70 miracles at healing waters of Lourdes, France that the Church has had verified by a panel of doctors and scientist who are not Catholic and some are atheists. You will not accept these miracles.

You will not even accept the UNIVERSE as a miracle. You've mentioned particles popping in and out of existence in a quantum vacuum. But that is NOT nothing. This is simply science of the gaps.

Unfortunately, your lack of humility, and dare I say, arrogance, will not allow you to truly entertain the possibility of God. That is not science. A scientist would truly test all possible proofs.

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Quote:

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I'm referring to the several cosmological constants that appear to be fine-tuned. I would have assumed a scientist would have looked into this long ago.

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I would assume you would have known that it is the cosmological constants that allow for the plausibility of a spontaneous universe.

Quote:

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With respect to Fatima, many non-believers and skeptics witnessed the events that day.

I could list young man that was brought back to life by Saint Don Bosco. I could list the young girl born with no pupils that got her sight at the age of 7 (who is still alive today) after she was healed by Saint Padre Pio. I could list the 70 miracles at healing waters of Lourdes, France that the Church has had verified by a panel of doctors and scientist who are not Catholic and some are atheists. You will not accept these miracles.

You will not even accept the UNIVERSE as a miracle. You've mentioned particles popping in and out of existence in a quantum vacuum. But that is NOT nothing. This is simply science of the gaps.

Unfortunately, your lack of humility, and dare I say, arrogance, will not allow you to truly entertain the possibility of God. That is not science. A scientist would truly test all possible proofs.

---

There were many who were present that did not see anything unusual. Nobody has shown that anything witnessed that day was a miracle.

Assertions of miracles by the Catholic Church are not much different than Peter Popoff's and Benny Hinn's assertions. A miracle by definition is a supernatural event, inexplicable by natural or scientific laws. It has to be a product of supernatural agency. None of those meet that criteria. Why didn't Saint Padre Pio restore an amputated arm, or decapitated head?

There is no such thing a science of the gaps is a creationist poorly considered rebuttal attempt. Rather, your idea of accepting what is unknown about the universe as a miracle is a god of the gaps concept. That gap has been shrinking by scientific discovery since religion began. Consider that your definition of nothing, may not exist in a quantum vacuum.

It's not lack of humility or arrogance. Rather, it's facing and accepting the evidence of reality that changed my views, and will not allow me to entertain the possibility of any god, especially any god that was contrived by any human devised religion.

---

John A.T. Robinson talks of the "God of Gaps" filling in where science has not caught. That gap keeps closing. and for most of secular people the gap is gone. I believe the overwhelming Biblical witness is "God is love."
I am not sure why but you never respond to my thoughts, I agree with of all of your understanding of science and God but can you respond to the spiritual (not super natural, the spiritual of a different order).

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Creation of the earth, parting a sea, feeding 5,000, healing the blind, lepers, deaf, raising the dead - these are all in contradiction od science.

---

That's why they are called miracles. They are well documented and miracles continue to occur in every generation.

---

That you call them miracles does make them historical reality but miracles for 1st century disciples' eyes and ears were real.

---

Serious questions:

Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

---

---

Prove that God is in loving acts and relationships and that this isn't just another "God of the gaps" argument.

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Creation of the earth, parting a sea, feeding 5,000, healing the blind, lepers, deaf, raising the dead - these are all in contradiction od science.

---

That's why they are called miracles. They are well documented and miracles continue to occur in every generation.

---

That you call them miracles does make them historical reality but miracles for 1st century disciples' eyes and ears were real.

---

Serious questions:

Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act
How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

---

Waco: Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

I agree, consider a parent counseling their pregnant daughter not to kill her unborn child,

That is love, and love of Life pleases God.

But the woman who enters an abortion clinic turns her back on God, and on protecting Life.

Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

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How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

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What came first, God or the universe?

TexasScientist said:

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There were many who were present that did not see anything unusual. Nobody has shown that anything witnessed that day was a miracle.

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I have not read any account that stated that people who were there did NOT witness the event. Newspaper records indicated that many non-believers did see something appear to happen to the sun.

TexasScientist said:

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Assertions of miracles by the Catholic Church are not much different than Peter Popoff's and Benny Hinn's assertions. A miracle by definition is a supernatural event, inexplicable by natural or scientific laws. It has to be a product of supernatural agency. None of those meet that criteria. Why didn't Saint Padre Pio restore an amputated arm, or decapitated head?

---

Quite frankly, I don't know who Peter Popoff is. I've heard the name Benny Hinn, but I don't know anything about him. I can only assume that they evangelicals that are reported to perform some miracles. Irrespective, the miracles at Lourdes are well-documented by independent doctors, who are believers. Did Benny or Peter do this? I really don't know.

With respect to Padre Pio, no, he did not restore an amputated limb or heal a decapitated person. But let's say that he did. Wouldn't atheists just state that the account was "made up" or it was something that science hasn't figured out? Many atheists tend to move the goal post when discussing these issues.

TexasScientist said:

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There is no such thing a science of the gaps is a creationist poorly considered rebuttal attempt. Rather, your idea of accepting what is unknown about the universe as a miracle is a god of the gaps concept. That gap has been shrinking by scientific discovery since religion began. Consider that your definition of nothing, may not exist in a quantum vacuum.

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I don't consider the rebutted poorly considered. It is the exact same as the atheist's response. It's quite easy to dismiss another party's claims.

TexasScientist said:

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It's not lack of humility or arrogance. Rather, it's facing and accepting the evidence of reality that changed my views, and will not allow me to entertain the possibility of any god, especially any god that was contrived by any human devised religion.

---

If you have honestly investigated ALL the substantial evidence - Aquinas' 5 Ways, Moral, Cosmological, Fine-Tuning, philosophical, and teleological arguments (from the ACTUAL sources, not just the Atheist's blog/website responses) and can't believe that a higher power created the universe and everything in it, then I applaud your efforts, appreciate you trying, and will continue to pray for you.

If you haven't researched these to there end, using their sources, then I find that disingenuous to your position.

I've read/watched/listened to the atheist's responses to the theist's claims on each of these arguments. Some make some valid points; however in the end, they all failed to grasp the complete concept to the theist's claims.

A Woman has a right to do with her body as she pleases, no one is turning a back to God because you don't even know of there is a personal God. Why people hang on to belief systems created when people were totally uneducated about the world and how it works and how we got here and where we stand in perspective to the whole universe. There is no way a belief system like Christianity or Muslim etc could be created in today's environment of richness of knowledge.

Those human beings that created their belief systems based on their worldly experience and the religion beliefs that came before them. They are all culturally created systems not God made. I agree there seems to be a higher power that may have put all this in motion however as I have said before all of man's religions fall so ridiculously short of a God who could have created the universe.

It is hard to overcome brainwashing started at young ages. RELIGION has thrive on teaching brains these absurd superstitious beliefs like the p
romise of eternal life and a god watching over and protecting you each and every moment of your life. There is overwhelimg evidence today that none of that is true and most likely when you die you die like all the ancestors mankind came from did.

Sin is a man-made idea that helped control the masses and created guilt so churches had power to punish, burn and eliminate any belief system that differed from their own. There was never an Adam and eve and like the rest
Of the so called man in God's form from the other various belief systems, Jesus was just a man.

Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

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How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

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Co jointly

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Creation of the earth, parting a sea, feeding 5,000, healing the blind, lepers, deaf, raising the dead - these are all in contradiction od science.

---

That's why they are called miracles. They are well at documented and miracles continue to occur in every generation.

---

That you call them miracles does make them historical reality but miracles for 1st century disciples' eyes and ears were real.

---

Serious questions:

Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

---

---

Prove that God is in loving acts and relationships and that this isn't just another "God of the gaps" argument.

---

Simple. God is love

Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Creation of the earth, parting a sea, feeding 5,000, healing the blind, lepers, deaf, raising the dead - these are all in contradiction od science.

---

That's why they are called miracles. They are well at documented and miracles continue to occur in every generation.

---

That you call them miracles does make them historical reality but miracles for 1st century disciples' eyes and ears were real.

---

Serious questions:

Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

---

---

Prove that God is in loving acts and relationships and that this isn't just another "God of the gaps" argument.

---

Simple. God is love

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Circular argument.

If you are accepting this kind of reasoning, then great! God created the universe because God is Creator. God has power over physics because God is all powerful!

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

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How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

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What came first, God or the universe?

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Co jointly

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Well, I can believe that a joint led to that sort of thinking ...

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

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How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

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Co jointly

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Are you stating that God had a beginning (there was a time when He did not exist)? Or that God and the Universe are co-eternal (they have both always existed)?

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

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How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

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Co jointly

---

therefore, your god is not eternal?

Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

---

How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

---

Co jointly

---

Are you stating that God had a beginning (there was a time when He did not exist)? Or that God and the Universe are co-eternal (they have both always existed)?

---

Co eternal

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

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What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

---

How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

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Co jointly

---

therefore, your god is not eternal?

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Yes. Name a time and place anywhere in the universe that love would not prevail as God's power. Love like physics is true as it is everywhere

Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Where is God? Look at any human being, loving relationship, just, loving act

---

What does that mean? Is He in Heaven?

Waco1947 said:

---

How long has He existed? How old is the universe?

---

What came first, God or the universe?

---

Co jointly

---

Are you stating that God had a beginning (there was a time when He did not exist)? Or that God and the Universe are co-eternal (they have both always existed)?

---

Co eternal

---

Science and the 2nd law of thermodynamics disagree with you on the eternal universe.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Science and the 2nd law of thermodynamics disagree with you on the eternal universe.

---

This.

I literally added this to my questions but deleted it because I wanted to see his answer first. I really shows that Waco47's Process Theology god does not exist logically, philosophically, or scientifically.

What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

Waco1947 said:

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What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

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God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

joseywales said:

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A Woman has a right to do with her body as she pleases, no one is turning a back to God because you don't even know of there is a personal God. Why people hang on to belief systems created when people were totally uneducated about the world and how it works and how we got here and where we stand in perspective to the whole universe. There is no way a belief system like Christianity or Muslim etc could be created in today's environment of richness of knowledge.

Those human beings that created their belief systems based on their worldly experience and the religion beliefs that came before them. They are all culturally created systems not God made. I agree there seems to be a higher power that may have put all this in motion however as I have said before all of man's religions fall so ridiculously short of a God who could have created the universe.

It is hard to overcome brainwashing started at young ages. RELIGION has thrive on teaching brains these absurd superstitious beliefs like the p
romise of eternal life and a god watching over and protecting you each and every moment of your life. There is overwhelimg evidence today that none of that is true and most likely when you die you die like all the ancestors mankind came from did.

Sin is a man-made idea that helped control the masses and created guilt so churches had power to punish, burn and eliminate any belief system that differed from their own. There was never an Adam and eve and like the rest
Of the so called man in God's form from the other various belief systems, Jesus was just a man.

---

Congratulations, you might have just broken the sicem365 record for the most nonsense written in a single post. Previously held by JB Katz, I think. TXScience and Waco47 were very close contenders.

Waco1947 said:

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What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

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Entropy will always be increasing in our universe. If the universe was eternal, it would have burned out long ago.

Scientist can estimate the distance of our universe based off radiation. We know it is expanding. We know the speed of the expansion. We can calculate the age of the universe. Currently, we lose sight of 1000's stars over the cosmic horizon every year.

joseywales said:

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There is no way a belief system like Christianity or Muslim etc could be created in today's environment of richness of knowledge.

---

Are you stating that if the same events that reported to happen today, people wouldn't believe it?

Are you stating that if an influential teacher (who predicted his death and resurrection) was crucified on a cross, died, buried, and rose from the dead three days later, people wouldn't follow him?

What part of Islam would be unbelievable if it happened today?

Coke Bear said:

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If you have honestly investigated ALL the substantial evidence - Aquinas' 5 Ways, Moral, Cosmological, Fine-Tuning, philosophical, and teleological arguments (from the ACTUAL sources, not just the Atheist's blog/website responses) and can't believe that a higher power created the universe and everything in it, then I applaud your efforts, appreciate you trying, and will continue to pray for you.

If you haven't researched these to there end, using their sources, then I find that disingenuous to your position.

I've read/watched/listened to the atheist's responses to the theist's claims on each of these arguments. Some make some valid points; however in the end, they all failed to grasp the complete concept to the theist's claims.

---

If someone has diligently pursued the substantial evidence for God (from both reputable Christian and Secular sources) and even lives it out, yet remains unconvinced, what do you think about them? This is not supposed to be some gotcha btw lol, I am genuinely curious. They perhaps never fully believed? An intelligence issue? Not one of the elect?

This seems to be a pretty common crossroad that many find themselves facing. For example, I've lived an incredibly dedicated Christian life for 20+ years serving as a missionary, worship leader, small groups, Bible studies, etc. All things I'm sure you're very familiar with. I proudly knew Jesus Christ as my lord and savior and even felt as I had a personal relationship.

Yet, as I have critically thought about, researched and analyzed my beliefs, I realized (at least from my perspective) that my once held evangelical beliefs are not so clear and the deconstruction process was very difficult.

BaylorJacket said:

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If someone has diligently pursued the substantial evidence for God (from both reputable Christian and Secular sources) and even lives it out, yet remains unconvinced, what do you think about them? This is not supposed to be some gotcha btw lol, I am genuinely curious. They perhaps never fully believed? An intelligence issue? Not one of the elect?

This seems to be a pretty common crossroad that many find themselves facing. For example, I've lived an incredibly dedicated Christian life for 20+ years serving as a missionary, worship leader, small groups, Bible studies, etc. All things I'm sure you're very familiar with. I proudly knew Jesus Christ as my lord and savior and even felt as I had a personal relationship.

Yet, as I have critically thought about, researched and analyzed my beliefs, I realized (at least from my perspective) that my once held evangelical beliefs are not so clear and the deconstruction process was very difficult.

---

Quite frankly, I would first appreciate their (your) effort in trying to honestly trying to search for God.

Without digging too deeply, I would always encourage a person to live out Pascal's Wager. I'm sure that your aware, but essentially, he states that if one is on the fence or 50/50 about the existence of God, it's best to live life like He does exist, given the potential outcomes.

Mother Teresa of Calcutta went thru 50 years of spiritual darkness, "dark night of the soul" a period of spiritual doubt, despair and loneliness that many of the great mystics experienced. It was as if God wasn't there for her. She persevered in the end.

Finally, (I'm sure that your done this, but) I'd recommend that a person continue to ask God daily to (re)reveal Himself to them. It may take days, months, or even years.

I don't know why we are tested like this. I will add you to my daily prayer list.

If you ever what to discuss your journey offline, I'd be happy to LISTEN and learn.

Peace brother!

BaylorJacket said:

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Coke Bear said:

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If you have honestly investigated ALL the substantial evidence - Aquinas' 5 Ways, Moral, Cosmological, Fine-Tuning, philosophical, and teleological arguments (from the ACTUAL sources, not just the Atheist's blog/website responses) and can't believe that a higher power created the universe and everything in it, then I applaud your efforts, appreciate you trying, and will continue to pray for you.

If you haven't researched these to there end, using their sources, then I find that disingenuous to your position.

I've read/watched/listened to the atheist's responses to the theist's claims on each of these arguments. Some make some valid points; however in the end, they all failed to grasp the complete concept to the theist's claims.

---

If someone has diligently pursued the substantial evidence for God (from both reputable Christian and Secular sources) and even lives it out, yet remains unconvinced, what do you think about them? This is not supposed to be some gotcha btw lol, I am genuinely curious. They perhaps never fully believed? An intelligence issue? Not one of the elect?

---

The answer is they never truly believed. Someone "remaining" unconvinced indicates this.

Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

---

God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

---

Yes still confused Try again. How doe sit relate to theology?

Coke Bear said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Science and the 2nd law of thermodynamics disagree with you on the eternal universe.

---

This.

I literally added this to my questions but deleted it because I wanted to see his answer first. I really shows that Waco47's Process Theology god does not exist logically, philosophically, or scientifically.

---

What is 2nd law of thermodynamics and how does it relate to theology?

That is kind and reasonable response. Refreshing even.

My opnion is people will believe what they are taught to believe and will refuse to open their minds to anything that threats their belief system, this is a natural flight or fight response of Human behavior. It was difficult for me to overcome the same as I was a Christian believer for o er 35 years.

However when faced with insurmountable facts, discoveries and logic , I personally finally realized how absurd all regions were including mine.

If you were to present a flat earth believer with the sailing ship th
at disappears over the horizon very gradually to prove the earth is curved, and explain to him that if the earth were flat it would tip over quickly once more than halfway over, he would not belive it. His beliefs are too grounded to be changed by objective factual information. This is exactly what happens with a believer, you cant convince anyone to chamge t heir belief system with facts. This has been shown throughout history as science has disproven religious beliefs, from the earth being the center of the solar system to we came from two people and created sin in a garden.

Recently I spoke with a catholic believer about a time his priest told his congregation (after it was discovered that there were all types of human beings that came from the same ancient ancestor,, includimg homo sapiens and Neanderthals), That God made homosapiens different and put a soul into us ,unlike the other human species. Well that satisfied everyone for years until again science revealed with objective facts by that over 90 percent of us have Neanderthal DNA and one or two other human trees in our being.

There very may be a such a something as a God who started all this 300 billion galaxies, however any of the religions created thousands of years ago in times of superstion and no way to verify any facts is just propaganda for religious purposes..
.
I finally saw the light and if mankind survives long enough we will finally be able to live in a world without superstition.

Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

---

God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

---

Yes still confused Try again. How doe sit relate to theology?

---

It's not related to Theology. You brought up, so you confused yourself, Waco.

Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

---

God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

---

Yes still confused Try again. How doe sit relate to theology?

---

It's not related to Theology. You brought up, so you confused yourself, Waco.

---

I did not bring the 2 nd law of thermodynamics? You did. What do you mean by it?

Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

---

God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

---

Yes still confused Try again. How doe sit relate to theology?

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It's not related to Theology. You brought up, so you confused yourself, Waco.

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I did not bring the 2 nd law of thermodynamics? You did. What do you mean by it?

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Wrong, I only answered your question about the Law. You bought it up, Waco following LIb's post, which you otherwise ignored.

Have you confused yourself that thoroughly, that you don't even recognize your own posts?

Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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What is your understanding of the second law of thermodynamics?

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God created it.

Rudolf Clausius discovered it.

You are confused by it.

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Yes still confused Try again. How doe sit relate to theology?

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It's not related to Theology. You brought up, so you confused yourself, Waco.

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I did not bring the 2 nd law of thermodynamics? You did. What do you mean by it?

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Wrong, I only answered your question about the Law. You bought it up, Waco following LIb's post, which you otherwise ignored.

Have you confused yourself that thoroughly, that you don't even recognize your own posts?

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Let me guess, accusations are confessions?

Well I would say it is hard for most people to overcome a belief system. I just realized all man's religion was invented by man and had nothing to do with a higher power. If people could easily change their belief system religion would be gone because they would be able to accept the obvious facts that we know today.