Russia mobilizes

188,451 Views | 4259 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by sombear
Oldbear83
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .
This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.






One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.
Once again, Sam mistakes his opinion for facts. One reason Ukraine is moving as they are, is that Zelensky at least understands that the war changes drastically if he crosses into Russia. He has to keep the image of repelling the invader, which is a very difficult plan for the long term.

As for Putin, it's easy to imagine he's a dead man walking, but the Oligarchs may well see him in a different light. Kill Putin and someone else comes into power, and the Oligarchs will have to deal with that one at some cost. Let Putin live under condition, and at least the Oligarchs keep a kind of quo.

This will lag into winter. Don't forget that the gas and oil shortages will be tools Putin can and will use, and while a lot of countries will see advantage in supporting the use of force against Russia, not so many will be willing to spend their money to feed and house Ukrainians.

There's a lot of ugly still to come.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Doc Holliday
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RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
Redbrickbear
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Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality.
Also, about the desire of the EU (France & Germany & Poland) to bring Ukraine into the Union.

The EU gaining Ukraine is about as important to them as the Midwest is to the USA.

Its some of the best farm land on earth.

trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Ridiculous argument ....again....5th verse.

We don't go nuclear unless the United States is attacked . To hell with this 'world policeman' bull**** .


The biggest problem we have ...very few have seen above ground nuclear testing as they were prohibited decades ago . People are basically clueless of the incredible destructive power of these things .

Rear echelon Rambo's just role out the phrase 'nuclear' like they are ordering 3 bean burritos at Taco Bell.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality.
Also, about the desire of the EU (France & Germany) to bring Ukraine into the Union.

The EU gaining Ukraine is about as important to them as the Midwest is to the USA.

Its some of the best farm land on earth.


What's more important than the farmland is the oil and gas reserves in and on the coast of Crimea, which Russia stole in another illegal and immoral invasion in '14.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
Again, Russia is not a fascistic entity (its a standard authoritarian oligarchic state) and its not going to win in Ukraine. At least if "win" means taking over the entire country. That is simply not going to happen.

At best they might get the ethnic russian Donbass region and might get to keep Crimea.

In the end the Ukraine (maybe without the Donbass/though maybe with it) will end up in the EU and in NATO at some point.

Russia is simply not strong enough to do anything but maybe take some territorial bites out of Ukraine.

And Russia might not be strong enough to even do that in the end.
Bear8084
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html




Fair point. And Radio Free Europe is a very informative news group.
Redbrickbear
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trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality.
Also, about the desire of the EU (France & Germany) to bring Ukraine into the Union.

The EU gaining Ukraine is about as important to them as the Midwest is to the USA.

Its some of the best farm land on earth.


What's more important than the farmland is the oil and gas reserves in and on the coast of Crimea, which Russia stole in another illegal and immoral invasion in '14.


Yes, totally correct.

Very important resources there.



FLBear5630
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

Not to minimize your post which I agree with but I have to say as someone who was in kindergarten during WWII we were taught the USA won the war and Hollywood even convinced us when Audie Murphy appeared on the screen killing the enemy right and left.

It wasn't until many years later that I began to suspect it was Russia that saved us from Hitler and the threats of the Nazi's.

We somehow have this impression we can kick anyones ass but Korea, Vietnam and Iraq tell us we aren't as macho as we want to believe.

Without Japan, Asia, India and the Middle East support to put a collar on Putin it could really be dicey.
I don't disagree with parts. I never said to take on Russia alone or go nuclear over Ukraine. Or for the US to take on China over Taiwan alone. That is just fear mongering to discredit my position. The US needs to be part of any coalition for them to have a shot of success against either Russia or China, even if just weapons and intel.

As for Russia winning WWII, true they soaked up a lot of bullets. But, I do not believe the Russians would have been able to beat Germany without the US on the other side. The US in WW2 was a much different animal than the others you list. Even the US at the end of WW2 was a different animal than at the beginning. The US was committed in total, we have not been on anything I can think of since. Maybe Apollo?? The US all in, is dangerous. But, we won't be.

The problem is that we never committed to finishing any of the others because of this same attitude, is it worth it??? So, we piecemeal. I don't think anything short of an invasion of the mainland US would get us "all in" again. I don't even think losing Hawaii or Alaska would be enough for some.

If we leave it to Europe, Russia will have the Ukraine and the Baltics. China would be in Taiwan without the US. I know many on here could care less. I don't agree. Just one persons opinion.
Redbrickbear
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RMF5630 said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?


I don't disagree with parts. I never said to take on Russia alone or go nuclear over Ukraine. Or for the US to take on China over Taiwan alone. That is just fear mongering to discredit my position. The US needs to be part of any coalition for them to have a shot of success against either Russia or China, even if just weapons and intel.

As for Russia winning WWII, true they soaked up a lot of bullets. But, I do not believe the Russians would have been able to beat Germany without the US on the other side. The US in WW2 was a much different animal than the others you list. Even the US at the end of WW2 was a different animal than at the beginning. The US was committed in total, we have not been on anything I can think of since. Maybe Apollo?? The US all in, is dangerous. But, we won't be.

The problem is that we never committed to finishing any of the others because of this same attitude, is it worth it??? So, we piecemeal. I don't think anything short of an invasion of the mainland US would get us "all in" again. I don't even think losing Hawaii or Alaska would be enough for some.

If we leave it to Europe, Russia will have the Ukraine and the Baltics. China would be in Taiwan without the US. I know many on here could care less. I don't agree. Just one persons opinion.
Correct.

The Soviets would have lost badly had the USA & British Empire not been streaming money and supplies to them.

As well as tying down large numbers of German forces in Western Europe, North Africa, and Italy/Mediterranean theatre.


https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/#:~:text=Totaling%20%2411.3%20billion%2C%20or%20%24180,common%20enemy%20%E2%80%94%20bloodthirsty%20Hitlerism.%E2%80%9D

Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today's currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the "enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy bloodthirsty Hitlerism."

  • 400,000 jeeps & trucks
  • 14,000 airplanes
  • 8,000 tractors
  • 13,000 tanks
  • 1.5 million blankets
  • 15 million pairs of army boots
  • 107,000 tons of cotton
  • 2.7 million tons of petrol products
  • 4.5 million tons of food
Sam Lowry
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trey3216 said:

Sam Lowry said:

Booray said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .
This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.






One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.


The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.
Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.
Have you not seen every city Russia has 'occupied' and then was liberated by Ukraine? Did you not see even in Kiev, where the majority of locales hit were either historic or civilian buildings (apartments, museums, memorials, etc.) They've Grozny'd the entire country where and when they could.
Far from it. The damage to Kiev was negligible in comparison.
FLBear5630
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Redbrickbear said:

RMF5630 said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

Not to minimize your post which I agree with but I have to say as someone who was in kindergarten during WWII we were taught the USA won the war and Hollywood even convinced us when Audie Murphy appeared on the screen killing the enemy right and left.

It wasn't until many years later that I began to suspect it was Russia that saved us from Hitler and the threats of the Nazi's.

We somehow have this impression we can kick anyones ass but Korea, Vietnam and Iraq tell us we aren't as macho as we want to believe.

Without Japan, Asia, India and the Middle East support to put a collar on Putin it could really be dicey.
I don't disagree with parts. I never said to take on Russia alone or go nuclear over Ukraine. Or for the US to take on China over Taiwan alone. That is just fear mongering to discredit my position. The US needs to be part of any coalition for them to have a shot of success against either Russia or China, even if just weapons and intel.

As for Russia winning WWII, true they soaked up a lot of bullets. But, I do not believe the Russians would have been able to beat Germany without the US on the other side. The US in WW2 was a much different animal than the others you list. Even the US at the end of WW2 was a different animal than at the beginning. The US was committed in total, we have not been on anything I can think of since. Maybe Apollo?? The US all in, is dangerous. But, we won't be.

The problem is that we never committed to finishing any of the others because of this same attitude, is it worth it??? So, we piecemeal. I don't think anything short of an invasion of the mainland US would get us "all in" again. I don't even think losing Hawaii or Alaska would be enough for some.

If we leave it to Europe, Russia will have the Ukraine and the Baltics. China would be in Taiwan without the US. I know many on here could care less. I don't agree. Just one persons opinion.
Correct.

The Soviets would have lost badly had the USA & British Empire not been streaming money and supplies to them.

As well as tying down large numbers of German forces in Western Europe, North Africa, and Italy/Mediterranean theatre.


https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/#:~:text=Totaling%20%2411.3%20billion%2C%20or%20%24180,common%20enemy%20%E2%80%94%20bloodthirsty%20Hitlerism.%E2%80%9D

Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today's currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the "enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy bloodthirsty Hitlerism."

  • 400,000 jeeps & trucks
  • 14,000 airplanes
  • 8,000 tractors
  • 13,000 tanks
  • 1.5 million blankets
  • 15 million pairs of army boots
  • 107,000 tons of cotton
  • 2.7 million tons of petrol products
  • 4.5 million tons of food

This is what I mean by all in. We not only contributed military, but our whole economy shifted to a war footing and was able to out produce the Axis. To this day, the two things that both Russia and China fear about a US war is our logistic capabilities and production capabilities (if it ever gets serious enough to harness it and Biden is out of office).

I do believe China and Russia are like the US, too big to be invaded. Russia especially, you could take everything to the Urals and still have to deal with Siberia (7 time zones). How do you invade that?

Doc Holliday
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trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
cowboycwr
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Quote:

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

Not to minimize your post which I agree with but I have to say as someone who was in kindergarten during WWII we were taught the USA won the war and Hollywood even convinced us when Audie Murphy appeared on the screen killing the enemy right and left.

It wasn't until many years later that I began to suspect it was Russia that saved us from Hitler and the threats of the Nazi's.

We somehow have this impression we can kick anyones ass but Korea, Vietnam and Iraq tell us we aren't as macho as we want to believe.

Without Japan, Asia, India and the Middle East support to put a collar on Putin it could really be dicey.
Russia took the brunt of WW2 but they only survived because of the money and supplies that poured in to allow them to slow the Germans down and eventually turn them back. Also, much of their equipment was US, British or even German equipment they reverse engineered and made their own version of that was better than what the Germans were making.

And, as others have pointed out, they had to contend with Hitler keeping troops in Western Europe or Africa and refusing to give up ground there, or launching silly counterattacks that drew resources away from the Eastern Front.

Finally, when you really look at the Pacific side of WW2 the US more or less did that on their own. China tied up lots of Japanese troops as well as the British troops in India/Southeast Asia but the destruction of Japanese military as a fighting force was all the US and was done with forces that (especially in 42 and 43) diverted supplies from Europe.
trey3216
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Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
Again, Russia is not a fascistic entity (its a standard authoritarian oligarchic state) and its not going to win in Ukraine. At least if "win" means taking over the entire country. That is simply not going to happen.

At best they might get the ethnic russian Donbass region and might get to keep Crimea.

In the end the Ukraine (maybe without the Donbass/though maybe with it) will end up in the EU and in NATO at some point.

Russia is simply not strong enough to do anything but maybe take some territorial bites out of Ukraine.

And Russia might not be strong enough to even do that in the end.
that's certainly the case now, re:Russia's capability, but it damn sure wasn't their intent
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

trey3216 said:

Sam Lowry said:

Booray said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .
This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.






One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.


The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.
Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.
Have you not seen every city Russia has 'occupied' and then was liberated by Ukraine? Did you not see even in Kiev, where the majority of locales hit were either historic or civilian buildings (apartments, museums, memorials, etc.) They've Grozny'd the entire country where and when they could.
Far from it. The damage to Kiev was negligible in comparison.
no **** jackwagon. I said even the damage done in Kiev was solely done to civilian and historical areas. Primarily housing and infrastructure as well as museums, schools and universities. The damage they've done in Eastern/southern Ukraine is absolutely on par with Grozny. They weren't able to inflict that damage on Kiev.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.


That is as stupid as saying China right now is a 100% fascist political system.

It literally is not by the very definition.

There are other terrible types of government and immoral systems of government besides fascism.

And Russia has created one.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Fake referenda's starting.





https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63003395


trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
Dude, the war is literally breaking Russia. They are earning less on oil today at 1.5x the price than they were at the beginning of the war. They can't import anything, they can't export anything other than food and illegal oil sales. Their market is ***** They've spent all their foreign reserves trying to prop up their currency. Their runway is short.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.


That is as stupid as saying China right now is a 100% fascist political system.

It literally is not by the very definition.

There are other terrible types of government and immoral systems of government besides fascism.

And Russia has created one.
nationalistic, authoritarian government with goals of eradicating a nation and their ethnic identity from the face of the planet is pretty damned fascist.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.


That is as stupid as saying China right now is a 100% fascist political system.

It literally is not by the very definition.

There are other terrible types of government and immoral systems of government besides fascism.

And Russia has created one.
nationalistic, authoritarian government with goals of eradicating a nation and their ethnic identity from the face of the planet is pretty damned fascist.
China is doing that to the Uyghurs right now.

And have been doing it to the Tibetans for 70 years.

And they are literally Communists.

trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.


That is as stupid as saying China right now is a 100% fascist political system.

It literally is not by the very definition.

There are other terrible types of government and immoral systems of government besides fascism.

And Russia has created one.
nationalistic, authoritarian government with goals of eradicating a nation and their ethnic identity from the face of the planet is pretty damned fascist.
China is doing that to the Uyghurs right now.

And have been doing it to the Tibetans for 70 years.

And they are literally Communists.


yes, they are. And oftentimes, more often than people realize, Commies and Fascists can take their label out of their left pocket and put it into their right pocket and you'd never be able to ascertain the difference.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Sam Lowry said:

trey3216 said:

Sam Lowry said:

Booray said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .
This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.






One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.


The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.
Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.
Have you not seen every city Russia has 'occupied' and then was liberated by Ukraine? Did you not see even in Kiev, where the majority of locales hit were either historic or civilian buildings (apartments, museums, memorials, etc.) They've Grozny'd the entire country where and when they could.
Far from it. The damage to Kiev was negligible in comparison.
no **** jackwagon. I said even the damage done in Kiev was solely done to civilian and historical areas. Primarily housing and infrastructure as well as museums, schools and universities. The damage they've done in Eastern/southern Ukraine is absolutely on par with Grozny. They weren't able to inflict that damage on Kiev.
They weren't trying to.
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.
Authoritarian and Oligarchic but not Fascistic.

Anti-Westernism and revanchism does not make it fascist. Anymore than China is a "fascist" power.

"The Putin regime...has been developed almost exclusively by the state in a traditionally Russian manner," historian Payne said. "It is not the product of any revolutionary movement or ideology -- fascist or otherwise. It has developed the characteristics of what some political analysts have called a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship."

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-repressive-aggressive-not-fascist/31794918.html


Nationalism and overtly wanting to erase the existence of a neighboring nationality are fairly far up the Fascist ladder.
Words matter nationalism and imperialism don't just equal fascism.

Britain in the late 1700s/1800s and the USA in the 1890s were not fascistic....even if we were nationalistic and imperialist.

China today fits those categories along with being totalitarian but is still not fascistic.

Read the article.

Russia today is actually pretty standard in terms of a State within Russian history. Expansionist and Oligarchic being controlled by a small clique at the top.
Im 100% aware the definitions and differences in varying political systems. Russia right now is 100% a fascist political system.


That is as stupid as saying China right now is a 100% fascist political system.

It literally is not by the very definition.

There are other terrible types of government and immoral systems of government besides fascism.

And Russia has created one.
nationalistic, authoritarian government with goals of eradicating a nation and their ethnic identity from the face of the planet is pretty damned fascist.
China is doing that to the Uyghurs right now.

And have been doing it to the Tibetans for 70 years.

And they are literally Communists.


yes, they are. And oftentimes, more often than people realize, Commies and Fascists can take their label out of their left pocket and put it into their right pocket and you'd never be able to ascertain the difference.
Both are terrible systems and equality as totalitarian but they are different.

Communism: (from Latin communis, 'common, universal') is a revolutionary far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology and current within the socialist movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchangeallocating products to everyone in the society.

Fascism: is a revolutionary, socialist, totalitarian, ultranationalist political ideology and mass movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized political power in a single party, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.


Modern Russia is not either of these systems.

It is for one thing...Not revolutionary and not Totalitarian. But rather reactionary and Authoritarian with no over riding economic system or theory.

It is not interested in socialism of any sort...right or left.

Your characterizing of modern Russia under Putin as a "fascist" system is simply factually inaccurate.

Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
Dude, the war is literally breaking Russia. They are earning less on oil today at 1.5x the price than they were at the beginning of the war. They can't import anything, they can't export anything other than food and illegal oil sales. Their market is ***** They've spent all their foreign reserves trying to prop up their currency. Their runway is short.
Yes that's why I said geopolitically. If they absorb Ukraine it's good for them.

The military industrial complex in the US is making bank.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
Dude, the war is literally breaking Russia. They are earning less on oil today at 1.5x the price than they were at the beginning of the war. They can't import anything, they can't export anything other than food and illegal oil sales. Their market is ***** They've spent all their foreign reserves trying to prop up their currency. Their runway is short.
Yes that's why I said geopolitically. If they absorb Ukraine it's good for them.

The military industrial complex in the US is making bank.


You make it sound like the US planned this! If Putin doesn't invade, they don't make bank. This is putting gig, not ours.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
Dude, the war is literally breaking Russia. They are earning less on oil today at 1.5x the price than they were at the beginning of the war. They can't import anything, they can't export anything other than food and illegal oil sales. Their market is ***** They've spent all their foreign reserves trying to prop up their currency. Their runway is short.
Yes that's why I said geopolitically. If they absorb Ukraine it's good for them.

The military industrial complex in the US is making bank.


You make it sound like the US planned this! If Putin doesn't invade, they don't make bank. This is putting gig, not ours.
It's just taking advantage of a bad situation.

We're supplying billions of dollars, weaponry and soldiers…so yeah, we have made moves to escalate warfare and proxy battles.

whiterock
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Canada2017 said:

Booray said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .


Your fear that the West is going to emerge victorious is odd. Unless you value party over country.
You are such a *****...full time *****. his comment was over the line but, then, Democrats can't argue these days without resorting to character aspersion of one form or the other.

My concern plainly .......is that the war is expanding. not yet, maybe, and maybe not. There is more than one explanation for the mobilization of reserves, and "expanding military operations in other territories while you're losing in the one you started due to logistical problems" is not among them....

For the first time since WW2 Russia is mobilizing its reserves. That is not an empty gesture. Yes
For the first time since the 60's...Russia is openly threatening the use of nukes. No. Tactical use ("escalate to deescalate") has always been doctrine. and thinly veiled existential threats are as Russian as vodka & caviar. They are bullies and only respect strength.

I want Putin dead and out of the way asap......but he isn't stupid....and a drowning man is extremely dangerous. because he isn't stupid, he understands that there is no scenario where tactical nuke use in Ukraine will improve the odds of survival for himself or Russia.

But idiots like you are so concerned about Trump, mid terms and pronouns .......you can't accept what is happening right in front of your eyes.
my responses in bold.
C. Jordan
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whiterock said:

Planning on pouring 300k troops into Ukraine
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna48585

Bans military age men from boarding international flights
https://www.airlive.net/breaking-russian-airlines-ordered-to-stop-selling-tickets-to-russian-men-aged-18-to-65/amp/

35km line of cars seeking to leave via the Finnish border

Soo, he's replacing his sucky troops who don't want to be in Ukraine with even suckier ones who want to be in Ukraine even less.

That's not going to end well.
C. Jordan
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Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


Good luck with that.

Or, Putin could be done in by his fellow Russians.

It's happened before.

(Interesting that for some, whatever Biden does is wrong. If he lets Russia win, he's wrong. If he helps Ukraine win, he's wrong.)
C. Jordan
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Golem said:

Re The Conscription: One of the top internet searches in Russia is on how to break one's own arm.
Guys are also fleeing the country.
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