Russia mobilizes

194,907 Views | 4259 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by sombear
C. Jordan
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Booray said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .


Your fear that the West is going to emerge victorious is odd. Unless you value party over country.
Sadly, it's where we are these days. Any "win" for the other team is a loss for my team. It's also the way Putin thinks.

We no longer have a sense of the common good.
whiterock
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Mothra said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .
This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.






Pushing the offensive into Russian territory would be incredibly dangerous, and give Putin just the cover he needs to park a nuclear warhead in downtown Kyiv (or some other place).

We underestimated his threats to invade Ukraine before. It would be a mistake to do so again, IMO.
Valid point, and taken. Always a counterweight on the scales But....

We cannot allow Putin to make the strategic assumption that he does not need to defend his own borders. We instill that fear by cutting across a salient, maybe a 20 mile lateral move across Russian territory to encircle Russian position along the UKR border. Or maybe we bomb a railway bridge 50km inside Russia to interdict supply lines. Maybe we send rockets to destroy a border supply depot.... We have to make Putin spread out his army to defend his own borders, to keep him from sending those troops into UKR. (It will take several hundred thousand troops to do that.....so it cannot be dismissed that this mobilization is to cover a planned strategic retreat.)

And then there's this: technically, we've already done most of what you fear. UKR is already bombing Crimea, which is (according to Russia) Mother Russian territory. Same for the Donbas, which will in days become (according to Russia) part of Mother Russia.

So, yes, we can't send 100k troops on an axis of attack headed for Moscow. But we cannot allow him to conclude that we are scrupulously going to limit the battle space to the borders of UKR. We will do whatever is necessary to secure the return of 100% of former Ukrainian territory to Kiev. That includes veiled threats of escalation by US if Putin uses these 300k troops to open new axes of advances toward Kiev.

To not think and act that way invites Putin to continue using his army to grind ad infinitum.

The imminent plebiscites in Donbas to join with Russia are a sign of weakness. Among the many benefits to Russia: it leaves open justification to come back to reclaim them in the future. Also leaves open the justification to treat any future attacks in the Donbas as attacks on Mother Russia. We will ignore that latter concern. And Putin will not nuke anyone for it. But he has to try to instill strategic ambiguity, too......

whiterock
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Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
C. Jordan
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BornAgain said:

why dont we get rid of him instead? that ruthless killer cant even take care of ukraine

is this Biden or Soros plan? to bankrupt our country over period of time by funding Ukraine? let prices go up while supplies go down so lower and middle class US citizens cant afford to live
Ah. Of course you would bring Jewish Conspiracy into the picture.

This is as old as "The Protocols of Zion."

Also, amazingly naive. First, it would be nearly impossible to take out Putin. Second, if you did, you would have no idea where it would lead to.


FLBear5630
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Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?
Tulsi is spot on about what this war is about:


Have you considered the Ukraine war is not about morality or democracy and instead about regime change in Russia and feeding the U.S. military-industrial complex?

Money and power are much more plausible than morality. We can either approach this discussion like a movie plot or we can talk about the harsh reality of what motivates war. People will murder and use their people as pawns to access trillions $$ and if you don't believe that, you don't understand humanity at all.
That could be the case. Are you willing to let a sovereign nation of nearly 50 million be erroneously consumed by a fascist entity in order to find out that it really was about eradicating their national existence?
I don't buy that the motivations of Russia are emotionally based. This war benefits the US and Russia financially/geopolitically.
Dude, the war is literally breaking Russia. They are earning less on oil today at 1.5x the price than they were at the beginning of the war. They can't import anything, they can't export anything other than food and illegal oil sales. Their market is ***** They've spent all their foreign reserves trying to prop up their currency. Their runway is short.
Yes that's why I said geopolitically. If they absorb Ukraine it's good for them.

The military industrial complex in the US is making bank.


You make it sound like the US planned this! If Putin doesn't invade, they don't make bank. This is putting gig, not ours.
It's just taking advantage of a bad situation.

We're supplying billions of dollars, weaponry and soldiers…so yeah, we have made moves to escalate warfare and proxy battles.


BS, disagree on this one. Putin leaves a sovereign nation alone, no weapons or intel. The US does not have soldiers in Ukraine fighting.
Doc Holliday
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whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.
FLBear5630
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C. Jordan said:

Booray said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.
Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .
he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.


Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .


Your fear that the West is going to emerge victorious is odd. Unless you value party over country.
Sadly, it's where we are these days. Any "win" for the other team is a loss for my team. It's also the way Putin thinks.

We no longer have a sense of the common good.
That logic just allows the Putin's and Xi's to do what they want. How do you manage, negotiate or deal from a position of fear?? We decide to stay out of wrongful acts, ignore pleas for help or even act against our own self interest in fear that Putin will get mad and start a nuclear war? Yet, he can pretty much do what he wants?

Sorry, I do not see any scenario that appeasement like this plays out well in the end for us.
STxBear81
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I'm sure you know much more than I do. Everyone thought osama bin laden was hard to get rid of also.
FLBear5630
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BornAgain said:

I'm sure you know much more than I do. Everyone thought osama bin laden was hard to get rid of also.
Quick question, are we talking Nation-States or individual terrorist? Or, does it matter?
whiterock
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Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.
Yeah I'm talking politically. I'm talking about losing the agenda.

I consider the war in Afghanistan a complete failure. We set out to rebuild and we failed. We blew through trillions and then left terrorists with tens of billions of dollars worth of military equipment. Lots of innocent people killed by both sides. Do you consider that a success?

I'm not arguing in favor of leaving Ukraine to defend itself. What I'm pissed about is the lack of skepticism about what's going on over there, just as I was about the war on terror.

It's not black and white.
" 'Nations do not wage war for war's sake, but in pursuance of policy. The military objective is only the means to a political end. Hence the military objective should be governed by the political objective … The objective in war is a better state of peace even if only from your own point of view. Hence it is essential to conduct war with constant regard to the peace you desire."
--Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart.

Hart is the Sun Tsu of our age. No one man more influenced strategic thought in the 20th century.

We did not get exactly the peace we desired when we left Afghanistan. But it was by any reasonable measure a better peace than when we started the war. Time may alter that assessment, the variable being whether or not the regime in Afghanistan resumes the policy of full-throated embrace of using sovereign power to promote world wide jihad to include attacking the Great Satan. At the moment, they are not doing that. Yes, we know bad actors are walking around openly there. That does not mean the government has resumed WWJ. Who knows, we could have intelligence liaison working to track those players. (I have direct experience in a similarly ambiguous situation.) The 20 years we spent in Afghanistan was a powerful message to our adversaries not to provoke the United States of America. We may suck at nation building, but we are the best the world has ever seen at nation destroying. That latter point is, if one had to chose, the far more important of the two. Deterrence really, really matters.

By any reasonable measure, we won the Afghanistan War. That we did not leave it the way would have preferred does not change that outcome.
drahthaar
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trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Canada2017 said:

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?


just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.


A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.


he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

Every "politician" in the Kremlin knows that one result of using nukes is that all those beautiful historical buildings in Moscow will be rubble. That may be a stronger deterrent than anything else in this stupid war.
whiterock
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Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

Which is why they invaded Ukr now, and why we should stop them now.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.
If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

Exactly.

You cannot avoid escalation. The ladder is always there. If you don't show steely resolve using it, your opponent will.

whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
Golem
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
I highly doubt Russia would attack NATO countries ever.

We're spending so much money we're going to default and cause an unrecoverable economic disaster.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

Which is why they invaded Ukr now, and why we should stop them now.
War kills the most productive economically and socially productice members of its society.

Ukraine may soon be a society of mostly old people and foreign mercenaries.
william
How long do you want to ignore this user?
how do you say 'esprit de corps' in rooskie???

- KKM

lennybrucewasnotafraidnopenosirreebobtail.....
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
william said:

how do you say 'esprit de corps' in rooskie???

- KKM



Bol'she vodki
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Golem
How long do you want to ignore this user?
william said:

how do you say 'esprit de corps' in rooskie???

- KKM


Vodka
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
I highly doubt Russia would attack NATO countries ever.

We're spending so much money we're going to default and cause an unrecoverable economic disaster.
All those weapons sales will help...
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Canada2017 said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Doc Holliday said:

RMF5630 said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?


Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.
Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.
well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker
No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!
we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.


Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?




So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.
Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

Which is why they invaded Ukr now, and why we should stop them now.
War kills the most productive economically and socially productice members of its society.

Ukraine may soon be a society of mostly old people and foreign mercenaries.
You are right, let Russia have it. Then those highly productive young people can use their skills to help Russia get stronger. Putin will probably but the mercenaries to use to keep order in Georgia and the "stans's". Old people, Putin knows how to deal with them too...
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.
Wrecks Quan Dough
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have lived all my life--and you all have lived most or all of your lives--with a Russian nuke pointed at you. During that time, most of us have seen and heard various Russian leaders make nuclear threats on our lives and lives of our countrymen. Putin is the latest to make a nuclear threat against us. His end and his military's demise cannot come early enough.

I do not understand the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. But I do understand that historically Russia is a threat to her weaker neighbors. A weaker Russia is good for Europe, Asia, and America.
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.

LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.
Problem is they now know they are not competitive. FBI counter-intelligence better beef up, Russia about to go all out Chinese to steal tech... .
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.
Problem is they now know they are not competitive. FBI counter-intelligence better beef up, Russia about to go all out Chinese to steal tech... .
probably correct. Will they ever be able to turn over some of the command to in theater officers?
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.
Problem is they now know they are not competitive. FBI counter-intelligence better beef up, Russia about to go all out Chinese to steal tech... .
probably correct. Will they ever be able to turn over some of the command to in theater officers?
I hope not!
trey3216
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
I highly doubt Russia would attack NATO countries ever.

We're spending so much money we're going to default and cause an unrecoverable economic disaster.
We're spending that on other things. This is a rounding error
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
R said:


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.
Problem is they now know they are not competitive. FBI counter-intelligence better beef up, Russia about to go all out Chinese to steal tech... .
probably correct. Will they ever be able to turn over some of the command to in theater officers?
I hope not!
IIRC, Soviet doctrine left use of tactical nukes to brigade commanders.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RMF5630 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Golem said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

trey3216 said:

Bear8084 said:

Speaking of Russian propaganda....
no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.
How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?
generally speaking, when someone else is willing to send their sons & daughters to fight your enemy to the death, you help their sons & daughters fight & die in order to prevent having to send your own sons & daughters to fight & die, the only caveat being not to be so cavalier about doing it that you get drawn directly into the conflict.

And also generally speaking, the mightiest powers on the planet have considerably broader latitude to do that than lesser powers, just because, generally speaking no on wants to provoke the mightiest powers.

We should send arms & ammunition to help defend UKR right down to the last Ukrainian.
We're gonna spend trillions of dollars on this war.

If that prevents us from spending trillions on climate initiatives to save the planet, I'm all for it.

The strongest rationale for doing what we are doing in UKR is that it's far, far cheaper and far, far safer for our kids and grandkids, than having to fight Russia directly on NATO soil over the future of NATO territories.

This is just the first phase of WWIII, boys. If we win it now, there won't be anymore phases.
There will always be more phases. As long as there are authoritarian leftists, there will always be war.


Exactly


Indeed. Which is why when an adversary affords you the opportunity, crush him. Destroy his armies and navies. Force him to withdraw and spend many years and billions to rebuild. Sometimes, those mighty nations never rebuild. Because they are past prime.

See Phillip II, 1588
See Mehmet IV 1683

Russia is, demographically and economically and militarily, way past prime. A loss here, to lowly Ukraine, permanently alters the course of Russian history, in a way that permanent benefits all of Europe. We get to do it on someone else's soil, with someone else's soldiers, and they are eager to do it. All we have to do is supply the arms and training. Enormously beneficial risk-return equation.

Russia is going to lose this war. The quicker we get on with making it happen, the quicker the dying stops.

Even if Russia ultimately wins this war, they have been proven to be no match for NATO weaponry.

The longer term threat, should Ukr fall into the Russian orbit, ala Belarus, is not outright invasion. It's political destabilization. With Russia (et al) next door, what happens when a pro-Russian party wins national elections? What happens when that party takes power and starts jonesing about leaving NATO, or just posing opposition to everything Nato tries to do? Look how agitated people get when Hungary advises caution on the current crisis. What will happen when a Poland (or other) starts making Orbsn look like a hawk?

It is error to think we have no stake in Ukr.
We are defending NATO right now.
In Ukraine.


I don't disagree. But they have shown themselves to be much weaker than NATO thought. It's going to cost them a great deal of capital to get to where they thought they were.


FBI counter-intelligence better beef up, Russia about to go all out Chinese to steal tech... .


DOJ and FBI have far more important priorities established .

Houses of political opponents.
Pillow salesmen.
Pro life advocates who dare protect their 12 year old children .


Dangerous clown world .
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