Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

Right. And what equipment will these 300k unwilling conscripts be using? It will be inferior to what the Ukrainians have already destroyed or captured.

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

When I am witnessing an invasion and not speculating on the presence or location of hidden chemical weapons.

Also, nuclear protocols in Russia are very similar to US command and control. It isn't a red button near Putin. You want to know if the military is loyal to Putin? Put that deployment into motion.

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

This entire thread reads like a wish list. Ukraine is surviving with military aid but things can change rapidly. Some believe the 300k conscription is actually closer to 1.2 million drafted.

So far Putin has skirted sanctions because of the price of oil. Everyone loves the underdog but I will bet this is far from a happy ending for Ukraine, even if they stave off total collaspe.

The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

I know, I know. Anything that isn't sunshine pumping is enemy propaganda. I've been hearing it longer than you've probably been alive. Doesn't sound any smarter today than it did when we were kicking ass in Iraq.

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

This entire thread reads like a wish list. Ukraine is surviving with military aid but things can change rapidly. Some believe the 300k conscription is actually closer to 1.2 million drafted.

So far Putin has skirted sanctions because of the price of oil. Everyone loves the underdog but I will bet this is far from a happy ending for Ukraine, even if they stave off total collaspe.

The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

---

There is no 'why'.....there never is .

Just the random fools who can't connect the dots .

Then thousands die....tens of thousands get crippled for life.

When its all over.....the politicians and assorted media geniuses who instigated the carnage simply go back to their exclusive clubs and gated communities resuming their quest for additional millions.

Meanwhile the lives of the families of the dead and crippled are shattered forever.

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

It's simply a fact that they have not done to Ukrainian cites (despite doing some damage) what they did to Grozny in the 2nd Chechen war.

"In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth." It was estimated that 95% of all standing buildings in the city were destroyed.

Now maybe that is because its beyond the Russian army's capability right now vs any sort of humanitarian or feelings of restraint on Putin's side.

I tend to lean on the side that the Russians are just that incompetent that they can't pull it off in the fact of Ukrainian fighting....but still its a fact.

If they start surrounding and systematically reducing to rubble Ukrainian cities then it will be similar.

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

---

Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

It's simply a fact that they have not done to Ukrainian cites (despite doing some damage) what they did to Grozny in the 2nd Chechen war.

"In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth." It was estimated that 95% of all standing buildings in the city were destroyed.

Now maybe that is because its beyond the Russian army's capability right now vs any sort of humanitarian or feelings of restraint on Putin's side.

I tend to lean on the side that the Russians are just that incompetent that they can't pull it off in the fact of Ukrainian fighting....but still its a fact.

If they start surrounding and systematically reducing to rubble Ukrainian cities then it will be similar.

---

"Some" damage....right.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Putin says he is not bluffing about using nukes .


Are we having fun yet ….are we cool again ?

---

just like he wasn't bluffing about 3 days. Just like he wasn't bluffing about NATO countries giving Ukraine supplies. He's a dead man walking and he knows it. At least he can mobilize his "army" away from the Kremlin and his vacay spots so he won't die in the next 3 weeks.

---

A 'dead man walking ' in command of thousands of nuclear warheads is an incredibly dangerous individual.

A dead man walking who KNOWS his only chance of survival is to 'win' …….is even more dangerous.

Biden's handlers need to somehow find even the slightest amount of common sense and work a face saving deal with Putin .

One that allows him to survive ( for now ) yet regain Ukraine's lost territory.

---

he's not gonna win this war and he knows it. It's all but lost as it sits today. "Mobilizing" the army away from the government may be his only shot to stay in power for any stretch. The walls are crashing in, and I don't believe for a second there will be a nuke fired because someone else is the one who has to follow the orders. Even China has turned their back on Russia in this one, aside from buying whatever minerals/commodities they can for $.50 on the dollar.

---

Putin is still ex KGB....he knows where the bodies are buried.

And if going to die anyway .......might choose to take many others with him .

---

he's already taken over 50,000 in his little 3 day war.

---

Would be very easy to add a couple of zeros to that number .

The US has already miscalculated once .

And the same dementia case is still ( nominally ) in charge .

---

This admin is doing far better than I would have imagined. They are more cautious than they could be. Or I would be. But they are playing hardball. Fun to watch.

No question we are attempting to put Putin in a situation where he will face a stark dilemma: withdraw to the status quo ante, or lose the entire Crimea to include Sebastopol. That may not sound significant, but Sebastopol has been a Russian naval base since the reign of Catherine the Great. Losing it would be a strategic defeat of tremendous historic significance. And, of course, Russia wouldn't need it if we sank the Black Sea Fleet......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11234251/America-hit-Russias-military-devastating-strike-Putin-nukes-Ukraine-says-general.html

I've been watching for YouTubes with Ben Hodges for months. More than any other observer, he has been not just accurate in explaining key dynamics, but granular. He predicted the Russian collapse we are witnessing would occur in August, rather than September, but spot on about the mechanics of what would cause it = logistics.

I think we are also making clear preparations for Ukraine to take the war into Russian territory. This would be not an attempt to "invade Russia" in the classical sense, but rather to not let borders get in the way of defending Ukraine. We will support Ukranian attack, via air, artillery, or infantry, any logistical hubs necessary to prevent Russian encroachment on Ukrainian territory.

This is good. Make Putin risk his own skin. Losing Sebastopol. Losing Black Sea Fleet. Losing historically Russian territory. All amid complete logistical collapse of the Russian military....... Putin is clearly facing the stark dilemma of immediate strategic retreat from Ukrainian territory, or strategic defeat of the Russian military, and.....failure of the Russian state under the Putin regime.

Looming.......At some point, Belarus is going to realize it's picked a loser for an ally. Current head of state will not likely switch unless under heavy pressure, but opposition forces could at any point from here start to agitate to bring down the regime. Nato has lots of contiguous border with Belarus, as well as lots & lots of linguistic and cultural ties. VERY easy to not just support unrest/insurgency in Belarus, but instigate it. I would be surprised if we don't see that happen before Thanksgiving. You read it here.

Why would undermining Belarus be important? Well, where do we think those 300k troops Russia just mobilized will be deployed? If i was Putin, I would deploy some/all of them to Belarus to pose a strategic risk to Kiev. It would force Ukraine to divert resources away from the south. We have 60-90 days before that that could happen. Ergo......watch Belarus.

---

One could scarcely imagine a more thorough misreading of the situation. Ukraine has gained nothing of real value in the recent push and continues to suffer high casualties against a much larger opponent. Putin need not be in any hurry.

---

The value Ukraine is getting is confidence from its suppliers that translates into continued supplies.

Russia is only a larger force if it has more willing soldiers. As the war drags on that gets less likely. A war of attrition seems to favor the larger force, but it often favors the most motivated force. The longer this goes on the more that balance tips to Ukraine. Time isn't Putin's ally, it is his enemy.

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Putin has so far tried to limit the destruction and leave open the possibility of negotiations. The West has yet to see (or even anticipate, apparently) what will happen when Russia goes full Grozny on its opponent. That's almost certainly the second prong of the escalation strategy represented by the addition of 300K troops.

---

Straight RU propaganda. You might want to see pics from Mariupol, Bucha, Irpin, Popansa, Kharkiv, Izyum...

---

It's simply a fact that they have not done to Ukrainian cites (despite doing some damage) what they did to Grozny in the 2nd Chechen war.

"In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth." It was estimated that 95% of all standing buildings in the city were destroyed.

Now maybe that is because its beyond the Russian army's capability right now vs any sort of humanitarian or feelings of restraint on Putin's side.

I tend to lean on the side that the Russians are just that incompetent that they can't pull it off in the fact of Ukrainian fighting....but still its a fact.

If they start surrounding and systematically reducing to rubble Ukrainian cities then it will be similar.

---

"Some" damage....right.

---

Don't try and start an argument where there is none.

They have damaged Ukrainian cities....but they have also not leveled any of them completely to the ground like they did Grozny. If nothing else because they have not had 1-2 years to shell these cities into dust like they did in Chechnya.

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Doc Holliday said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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trey3216 said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

When I am witnessing an invasion and not speculating on the presence or location of hidden chemical weapons.

Also, nuclear protocols in Russia are very similar to US command and control. It isn't a red button near Putin. You want to know if the military is loyal to Putin? Put that deployment into motion.

---

Our government and others said Russia was going to use chemical weapons:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/biden-response-russia-chemical-weapons-ukraine-war-rcna21327

It didn't happen:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-using-declassified-intel-fight-info-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014


Three U.S. officials told NBC News "there is no evidence Russia has brought any chemical weapons near Ukraine." Soooo, that whole "Russia's about to use chemical weapons" story was based on what?

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Sam Lowry said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Putin is simply the most evil human being alive on the planet.

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Meghan Markle says hi.

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Mothra said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Unfathomable to me that some people are actually in favor of this. I guess we want to test whether Putin is actually mad enough to park a nuclear warhead over Kyiv. He has repeatedly said that is exactly what he would do if Russian territory is attacked, but I guess we want to play chicken with nuclear weapons.

Makes zero sense.

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trey3216 said:

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Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Unfathomable to me that some people are actually in favor of this. I guess we want to test whether Putin is actually mad enough to park a nuclear warhead over Kyiv. He has repeatedly said that is exactly what he would do if Russian territory is attacked, but I guess we want to play chicken with nuclear weapons.

Makes zero sense.

---

I have no wants for Ukraine to invade Russia. The only attacks on Russian soil that should be made by Ukraine are on trains that are loaded with tanks and weaponry headed for Ukraine. If it's headed to try and kill me, I kill it first.

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Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

The worst possible outcome will be for Ukraine to actually invade Russia. That will energize Russian population.

---

Unfathomable to me that some people are actually in favor of this. I guess we want to test whether Putin is actually mad enough to park a nuclear warhead over Kyiv. He has repeatedly said that is exactly what he would do if Russian territory is attacked, but I guess we want to play chicken with nuclear weapons.

Makes zero sense.

---

I have no wants for Ukraine to invade Russia. The only attacks on Russian soil that should be made by Ukraine are on trains that are loaded with tanks and weaponry headed for Ukraine. If it's headed to try and kill me, I kill it first.

---

Who do you think benefits the most from that?

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RMF5630 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

---

If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO?

My point is where is the line???

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

---

If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

---

trey3216 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of Russian propaganda....

---

no joke. Greenwold, Tucker, and several others have actually done interviews with and defended the completely controlled russian media. They aren't even remotely appreciable on this issue.

---

How is Greenwalds'stweet literally quoting Jefferey Goldberg's comments to the Atlantic a defense of Russian media?

We got hoodwinked into the Iraq war for bogus reasons and burned through nearly $8trillion and lost a war because of US intelligence. You have to be a complete fool to just obey all liberal media and the intelligence community.

Why are you guys not skeptical?

---

Skeptical of what? Russia took Crimea. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine asked for help to maintaina democracy. How do you turn your back and say "not my problem"? And maintain any credibility. People wonder why China's influence is growing, because of positions like you are championing, not iur problem.

---

Skeptical of us media and government reporting on Ukraine.

No news agency has the credibility to "fact check" the stuff coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So much fake stuff (Ghost or Kyiv, concentration camps) was pushed as true.

Heroes of the Snake Island - turned out to be fake.
"Ghost of Kyiv" turned out to be a fake. It was crafted by the Ukraine government.
We will die, but we will not surrender "Azov" turned out to be a fake.

The same people that told us Hunter Biden's laptop wasn't legit are feeding you information about this war. I don't trust people that cross me.

To accuse me and others of pushing Russian propaganda is irrational. Really think about how insane of a belief that is.

---

well, the Azov group finally surrendered after about 3 months of non-stop fighting out of a place they were literally being shelled 24 hrs/day. They held out longer than damn near anyone would have. And many of them did die. And many of them were tortured and died after their surrender.

Ghost of Kiev was fake in that it wasn't 1 rando super pilot, yet Russia somehow doesn't have air control over an outmatched nation and Ukraine still has planes operating everyday, so they have a bunch of Ghosts of Kiev in that manner.

The snake island guys were thought to have been killed (a few were, but not all of them) and they were taken prisoner. And then the bumbling Russianset their prize warship get sunk by a pair of Neptune missiles.

These are things that I don't get from the media that denied Hunter Biden's laptop existed, but do get them from various OSINT groups that are actually cataloging the **** in real-time. Perhaps you'd be better looking at them and not Comrade Tucker

---

No the actual federal government lied about a hunters laptop, not just the media.

I'm not denying OSINT.

Wars turn slowly and they always have saboteurs, insurgents, factions and civil conflicts that enlist foreign intervention to settle scores, etc.

This aint ending for years and each side will bring in *disposable* combatants from Africa and afghnistan, etc.

This is a war on RU's border that they pushed. They can't walk away. And NATO wont either, not with so much invested.

This likely wont end until the US moves on and claims "mission accomplished" (e.g. Vietnam, Afghan etc).

All these US experts talking about Russia military strategy and advising Ukraine are the same f'ing people who never won military **** with hundreds of billions of dollars of hardware and personnel. But if you talk about their decades of lies you're spreading Russian disinfo?!

---

we haven't militarily lost a war in a long long time. We've lost the collective will to keep a farce government creation, and we won't stoop to Russia's level of destroying all civilian infrastructure and enacting terror through the land anymore. But we haven't lost a war militarily in a really long time. We may have politically, but not militarily.

---

Classic

Please tell me …..other than Iraq…..what war have we 'won' in the last 70 years ?

Which war was worth the deaths , the permanently wounded .

Which war left our people better off as a society ?

Haven't destroyed civilians and their infrastructure …..,are you kidding ?

---

So Kuwait was better off under Sadaam?

Afghanistan was better off when we were there, until Biden. If you don't believe me, ask an Afghani women.

South Korea would have been better off with out the US presence?

Iraq, I agree with you. That was W listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney. I am with you there, no one is better off.

Taiwan is 100% better off with US support.

Our presence in the Horn of Africa and Freedom of Navigation help preserve shipping lanes.

You may believe we can turtle up and avoid conflict around the world, buy those days are gone. Either we are in supporting Countries that can help us or China will.

We have a volunteer military. No one is talking conscription or forcing people to do things they didn't volunteer to do.

---

Is Ukraine worth a potential nuclear conflict or WW3?

If so, why?

There are only about 10 million men between 20-30 in Russia. The next generation is even smaller. They won't even be able to defend their territory in 10 years.

---

If so, why?

Ok, where is the line? NATO? You going to go Nuclear over Turkey? Finland? Sweden? Taiwan? South Korea? Japan?

Maybe to you its US Territory? Samoa? Guam? Puerto Rico? Gonna escalate to Nuclear?

Or, are we now down to Western Hemisphere? South America? (No, we didn't escalate with Venezuela, El Salvador or Argentina)

So, now it is US proper. Alaska? Maybe we should give Alaska back, we don't want to push Putin.

My point is where is the line??? If Nations like Ukraine and Taiwan that are publicly saying they want to be democratic, aligned with the West and willing to fight for it isn't enough, what is?

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

---

They are a fascist nation at this juncture. They just kinda hopped from one end of the horseshoe to the other.

---

Quote:

---

Communist Russian/Communist China will take until they are forced not to take. Who in the world has the ability to stop them besides the US?

---