Duh.trey3216 said:Because then we'd actually be putting American boots on the ground and Russia would likely see that as a provocation of war.Sam Lowry said:
They asked for a no-fly zone, too. Notice that we didn't provide it.
Russia mobilizes
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Germany freezing is good for Hungary and other countries that didn’t want to be under that thumb of the EU. My own view is that the U.S. blew up Nordstream 2 in order to lock in Germany. But there are positive secondary effects. Weakened Germany is good for the world.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) September 28, 2022
Doc Holliday said:Germany freezing is good for Hungary and other countries that didn’t want to be under that thumb of the EU. My own view is that the U.S. blew up Nordstream 2 in order to lock in Germany. But there are positive secondary effects. Weakened Germany is good for the world.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) September 28, 2022
Alex Jonesing it up again. C'mon man
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Doc Holliday said:Do you know what the CIA has done around the world for the past 70 years?!RMF5630 said:You guys really think that Biden has the balls to pull this? He and Obama sent blankets when left to their own. You really think OBiden would take this tact??? I say no way. The guy was scared to leave the basement.He Hate Me said:You are probably right that the EU will not reconsider its position on nukes, coal, or green energy. It is really silly to be that hard headed, but here we (and they) are.Doc Holliday said:Cutting gas means they EU will have to pump billions into green energy because EU is anti hydrocarbon, or they'll have to buy much more gas from the US. Probably both.He Hate Me said:Not sure how cutting gas and thereby highlighting the failure of "green energy" will advance the green agenda. But then again, I am surprised that people have bought into the green agenda as hard as they have.Doc Holliday said:Energy needs.ATL Bear said:What makes you think most of Europe plans on working with Russia in the future for its energy needs? Why do you think Russia's land objectives make it extremely difficult to get pipelines from other places East? There's no magic agreement that results in everything back to normal at the snap of a finger. Putin made the call to invade. The consequences are evolving.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Russia blew up their own pipeline but NOT the Norway-EU pipeline that's right next to it and just opened today?
Blame Putin, escalate the war, advance green agenda, make EU dependent.
Fear is the most powerful motivator.
I think this is what's going on:USA is now doing to Germany what Germany did to Greece, and really the entire EU, for the past 15 years - showing them, and not in subtle fashion, who really runs the show.
— FischerKing (@FischerKing64) September 28, 2022
Russia did this and will blame West. This is the first move on the Baltics. You will start to hear that Russia tried,but can't have the Baltics and Ukraine in the West.
I want to believe the US is wholesome, good and by the book...but that's not even close to reality.
Causing a Russian pipeline to self destruct the day before a new Norwegian pipeline becomes operational, amid overall context of Russia being caught in another military quagmire it likely cannot win, is as wholesome as it gets, brother. Time to open a bottle if King Alex and savor a good days work for the taxpayer.
Is this incorrect info?
Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
A really wise admin would announce an investigation of Greenpeace, or some other environmental terrorist group, for complicity in this attack.
The US Embassy in Moscow has told US citizens to not travel to Russia and to leave Russia immediately...
4th and Inches said:
The US Embassy in Moscow has told US citizens to not travel to Russia and to leave Russia immediately...
That is rarely bad advice when given.
It is also a diplomatic gesture. The next will be to recall the Ambassador, for indefinite consultations. Then we go to closures of consulates. Then to drawdown of dependents and non-essentials from embassies/ in Russia and/or Russian puppet states. Usually can count on two rounds of that. Fewer in smaller posts, more in larger posts. So Moscow might get three before we close up. Then there will be a US interest section in a third country embassy.
AFTER we go through all that and get to ultimatums, we can start to ponder on whether or no to stock up on candles and MREs such.
Yeah, that will be the perfect time to start pondering it.whiterock said:4th and Inches said:
The US Embassy in Moscow has told US citizens to not travel to Russia and to leave Russia immediately...
That is rarely bad advice when given.
It is also a diplomatic gesture. The next will be to recall the Ambassador, for indefinite consultations. Then we go to closures of consulates. Then to drawdown of dependents and non-essentials from embassies/ in Russia and/or Russian puppet states. Usually can count on two rounds of that. Fewer in smaller posts, more in larger posts. So Moscow might get three before we close up. Then there will be a US interest section in a third country embassy.
AFTER we go through all that and get to ultimatums, we can start to ponder on whether or no to stock up on candles and MREs such.
Man I just don't want to get hoodwinked Into war based on things they're not telling us.whiterock said:Doc Holliday said:Do you know what the CIA has done around the world for the past 70 years?!RMF5630 said:You guys really think that Biden has the balls to pull this? He and Obama sent blankets when left to their own. You really think OBiden would take this tact??? I say no way. The guy was scared to leave the basement.He Hate Me said:You are probably right that the EU will not reconsider its position on nukes, coal, or green energy. It is really silly to be that hard headed, but here we (and they) are.Doc Holliday said:Cutting gas means they EU will have to pump billions into green energy because EU is anti hydrocarbon, or they'll have to buy much more gas from the US. Probably both.He Hate Me said:Not sure how cutting gas and thereby highlighting the failure of "green energy" will advance the green agenda. But then again, I am surprised that people have bought into the green agenda as hard as they have.Doc Holliday said:Energy needs.ATL Bear said:What makes you think most of Europe plans on working with Russia in the future for its energy needs? Why do you think Russia's land objectives make it extremely difficult to get pipelines from other places East? There's no magic agreement that results in everything back to normal at the snap of a finger. Putin made the call to invade. The consequences are evolving.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Russia blew up their own pipeline but NOT the Norway-EU pipeline that's right next to it and just opened today?
Blame Putin, escalate the war, advance green agenda, make EU dependent.
Fear is the most powerful motivator.
I think this is what's going on:USA is now doing to Germany what Germany did to Greece, and really the entire EU, for the past 15 years - showing them, and not in subtle fashion, who really runs the show.
— FischerKing (@FischerKing64) September 28, 2022
Russia did this and will blame West. This is the first move on the Baltics. You will start to hear that Russia tried,but can't have the Baltics and Ukraine in the West.
I want to believe the US is wholesome, good and by the book...but that's not even close to reality.
Causing a Russian pipeline to self destruct the day before a new Norwegian pipeline becomes operational, amid overall context of Russia being caught in another military quagmire it likely cannot win, is as wholesome as it gets, brother. Time to open a bottle if King Alex and savor a good days work for the taxpayer.
I don't want more people to die.
That's my motivation behind my skepticism.
Also, if this is accurate, it would be very telling.
[Experimentation was conducted off the coast of Bornholm, Denmark, with participants from Naval Information Warfare Center Pacific, Naval Undersea Warfare Center Newport, and Mine Warfare Readiness and Effectiveness Measuring all under the direction of U.S. 6th Fleet Task Force 68. ]
https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/
[Experimentation was conducted off the coast of Bornholm, Denmark, with participants from Naval Information Warfare Center Pacific, Naval Undersea Warfare Center Newport, and Mine Warfare Readiness and Effectiveness Measuring all under the direction of U.S. 6th Fleet Task Force 68. ]
https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/
Redbrickbear said:
Also, if this is accurate, it would be very telling.
[Experimentation was conducted off the coast of Bornholm, Denmark, with participants from Naval Information Warfare Center Pacific, Naval Undersea Warfare Center Newport, and Mine Warfare Readiness and Effectiveness Measuring all under the direction of U.S. 6th Fleet Task Force 68. ]
https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/
Assuming article is true…..
Conducting operations like that is itself a diplomatic gesture -showing that you have the capability to do such is important whenever gunboat diplomacy is at play. That leaves the question of use solely a matter of will.
Yet the actual damage is primarily future rather than current.
BTW Germany completed a deal for LNG with UAE on Sunday, 25 Sept. the coincidence of this natural disaster with the Norwegian pipeline coming on line and the UAE deal is most ironic.
Rickards is an awful blowhard and an Alex Jones favorite. I cannot take you seriously when you continually post people like he and cernovich. Seriously, why does the US want to escalate the war? What motivation do we have for that?Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Because a no-fly zone puts Americans in harms way but, you already knew that.Sam Lowry said:
They asked for a no-fly zone, too. Notice that we didn't provide it.
Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Yep.LIB,MR BEARS said:Because a no-fly zone puts Americans in harms way but, you already knew that.Sam Lowry said:
They asked for a no-fly zone, too. Notice that we didn't provide it.
you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
trey3216 said:Rickards is an awful blowhard and an Alex Jones favorite. I cannot take you seriously when you continually post people like he and cernovich. Seriously, why does the US want to escalate the war? What motivation do we have for that?Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
I'm not here to defend this Rickards person or the Michel rose person who says he is danish.
I'm only interested if the info about US ship movements in the area in question is correct or not.
The only public threats made against Europe' natural gas supply were by Putin......and Biden .trey3216 said:you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Putin didn't need to destroy a pipeline he could simply shut off.
Did Biden follow through with his threat and destroy the pipelines ....perish the thought......we are the 'good guys'.
But I bet Biden ( or at least his handlers ) knows exactly who did and how .
Yep.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Look at what the media is priming:
➡️“Third, tactical nuclear weapons could be seen as weapons to calm a crisis - the so-called escalate to de-escalate theory - whereby you trigger a nuclear weapon as a warning” pic.twitter.com/hnaAhvO1Kt
— Telegraph World News (@TelegraphWorld) September 27, 2022
Dark times ahead. Pray.
Precision.
Russian.
Nuclear Weapons.
Calming.
Those words used in any combination are not good.
Russian.
Nuclear Weapons.
Calming.
Those words used in any combination are not good.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Did you know there was a Siberian gas pipeline sabotage which was considered one of the most successful CIA operations against Russian critical infrastructure?trey3216 said:Rickards is an awful blowhard and an Alex Jones favorite. I cannot take you seriously when you continually post people like he and cernovich. Seriously, why does the US want to escalate the war? What motivation do we have for that?Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
People in the US still don't get it .Doc Holliday said:Yep.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Look at what the media is priming:➡️“Third, tactical nuclear weapons could be seen as weapons to calm a crisis - the so-called escalate to de-escalate theory - whereby you trigger a nuclear weapon as a warning” pic.twitter.com/hnaAhvO1Kt
— Telegraph World News (@TelegraphWorld) September 27, 2022
Dark times ahead. Pray.
We are being manipulated, step by step , into a very high stakes game where any miscalculation could result in the death of millions .
'Led' by an obvious dementia sufferer.
It's like watching a repeat of the beginnings of WW1 and WW2.
they hold plebiscites to annex parts of Ukraine.....trey3216 said:Rickards is an awful blowhard and an Alex Jones favorite. I cannot take you seriously when you continually post people like he and cernovich. Seriously, why does the US want to escalate the war? What motivation do we have for that?Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
we respond by taking out a pipeline which affords them leverage over Europe.
They actually use nukes in Ukraine?
the rest of their pipeline network to Europe goes away.
It's not escalation.
It's diplomacy.
Tit for tat.
They do something, we respond.
The implicit message is....."choose wisely big boy. your desire to annex Ukraine is going to cost you very, very dearly, so much you cannot afford it. So, go ahead. Let China build you some new pipelines to sell your stuff. And re-drill your wells in the permafrost. Then they own you. Don't come crawling to us for help."
Our goal here is to make Russia choose East or West, to deny their ability to keep playing East against West. Russia will choose West. It has no choice. Eventually, it will happen. It can be the largest, strongest European power, or it can be the junior partner to China. Russia needs allies to defend Siberia from China.
Like the analysis. Just have a hard time believing Biden Administration would actually do it.whiterock said:they hold plebiscites to annex parts of Ukraine.....trey3216 said:Rickards is an awful blowhard and an Alex Jones favorite. I cannot take you seriously when you continually post people like he and cernovich. Seriously, why does the US want to escalate the war? What motivation do we have for that?Redbrickbear said:
Is this incorrect info?Well these images show US ship, helicopter and plane activity days and hours before the first explosion. Right above the pipes. We danes see no activity from Russia on the other hand. And yes we are very used to tracking Russia in our backyards. This smells of US/German agreement pic.twitter.com/IESGPmT8zi
— Michael Rose-Maron (@MichaelRmaron) September 28, 2022
we respond by taking out a pipeline which affords them leverage over Europe.
They actually use nukes in Ukraine?
the rest of their pipeline network to Europe goes away.
It's not escalation.
It's diplomacy.
Tit for tat.
They do something, we respond.
The implicit message is....."choose wisely big boy. your desire to annex Ukraine is going to cost you very, very dearly, so much you cannot afford it. So, go ahead. Let China build you some new pipelines to sell your stuff. And re-drill your wells in the permafrost. Then they own you. Don't come crawling to us for help."
Our goal here is to make Russia choose East or West, to deny their ability to keep playing East against West. Russia will choose West. It has no choice. Eventually, it will happen. It can be the largest, strongest European power, or it can be the junior partner to China. Russia needs allies to defend Siberia from China.
[If the Russians did it, said Clarke, "this is a strategic own goal because although it increases the sense of isolation that there will be no Russian gas for Europe this winter, it actually destroys Russia's credibility completely with European customers for the next couple of generations."
And the anonymous British military source upon whom the The Times relied expressed uncertainty that it was, in fact, the Russians, and viewed it as a tactical error, if it was.
Russia has shown a strong interest in protecting its pipelines. Last week, Russian security agencies claimed to have prevented a planned attack by the Ukranian military on the TurkStream pipeline, which sends Russian natural gas to Turkey and southern Europe.
The Kremlin, for its part, hotly denied the accusation. "It's quite predictable and also predictably stupid to give voice to these kinds of narratives," said President Vladamir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov. "Both branches were filled with gas, ready for pumping, and this gas is very expensive," said Peskov. "Now this gas is disappearing into the air."
The United States' Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, did not accuse Russia and instead said it was in "no one's interest" to destroy Nord Stream 1 and 2.
Der Spiegel notes that Russia could have pulled off such the attack on the pipelines, but "It is difficult to see whether Russia or Ukraine could have an interest in such an incident."]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2022/09/27/us-blew-up-russian-gas-pipelines-nord-stream-1--2-says-former-polish-defense-minister/amp/
And the anonymous British military source upon whom the The Times relied expressed uncertainty that it was, in fact, the Russians, and viewed it as a tactical error, if it was.
Russia has shown a strong interest in protecting its pipelines. Last week, Russian security agencies claimed to have prevented a planned attack by the Ukranian military on the TurkStream pipeline, which sends Russian natural gas to Turkey and southern Europe.
The Kremlin, for its part, hotly denied the accusation. "It's quite predictable and also predictably stupid to give voice to these kinds of narratives," said President Vladamir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov. "Both branches were filled with gas, ready for pumping, and this gas is very expensive," said Peskov. "Now this gas is disappearing into the air."
The United States' Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, did not accuse Russia and instead said it was in "no one's interest" to destroy Nord Stream 1 and 2.
Der Spiegel notes that Russia could have pulled off such the attack on the pipelines, but "It is difficult to see whether Russia or Ukraine could have an interest in such an incident."]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2022/09/27/us-blew-up-russian-gas-pipelines-nord-stream-1--2-says-former-polish-defense-minister/amp/
If Putin sabotaged that pipeline we opposed anyway it's an act of war, but Putin says it's an act of war too, but actually Putin did it as a false flag to rally his troops for war, and by the way the pipeline was already mostly off.
Seems everybody in charge just wants war.
Seems everybody in charge just wants war.
This is an IQ test that many conservatives are about to fail. pic.twitter.com/B7ROPEq56K
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) September 29, 2022
These natural gas pipelines were in relatively shallow water.
SEALS ( or other country's counterparts ) with lightweight explosives could have easily reached them undetected.
Guarantee you one thing......the Biden administration already knows exactly who did this and why .
SEALS ( or other country's counterparts ) with lightweight explosives could have easily reached them undetected.
Guarantee you one thing......the Biden administration already knows exactly who did this and why .
Well ... his Administration knows who did it. Biden only knows if he reads the teleprompter right he gets ice cream.Canada2017 said:
These natural gas pipelines were in relatively shallow water.
SEALS ( or other country's counterparts ) with lightweight explosives could have easily reached them undetected.
Guarantee you one thing......the Biden administration already knows exactly who did this and why .
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
BREAKING: First openly trans Army officer charged in plot to give U.S. military medical info to Russians to help in war against Ukraine - https://t.co/apHT1vYazs pic.twitter.com/AmJ6jMmEfr
— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) September 29, 2022
You don't seem to understand that America is a bad guy here and Putin and Russia are as much victims as anyone. They don't have evil economic interests like the US and West. Russia doesn't have ruling elites controlling their economy or corrupt intelligence and government agencies like the big bad US…. Did I get that right?trey3216 said:you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Both have ruling elites controlling their economy with corrupt intelligence and government agencies.ATL Bear said:You don't seem to understand that America is a bad guy here and Putin and Russia are as much victims as anyone. They don't have evil economic interests like the US and West. Russia doesn't have ruling elites controlling their economy or corrupt intelligence and government agencies like the big bad US…. Did I get that right?trey3216 said:you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
So what does the fact he is trans have to do with any of it?Doc Holliday said:BREAKING: First openly trans Army officer charged in plot to give U.S. military medical info to Russians to help in war against Ukraine - https://t.co/apHT1vYazs pic.twitter.com/AmJ6jMmEfr
— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) September 29, 2022
And maybe I am missing something or haven't read enough about this yet but what could an army doctor and his wife have that would help in the war in any way?
I mean getting the medical records/history of every top US General doesn't help Russia stop the Ukrainians from blowing up their tanks.
And side question... this guy is married.... does that mean his wife is secretly a lesbian? I can't keep track of how this trans and pronoun thing works....
You need to stay off the Twitters for a bit.Doc Holliday said:Both have ruling elites controlling their economy with corrupt intelligence and government agencies.ATL Bear said:You don't seem to understand that America is a bad guy here and Putin and Russia are as much victims as anyone. They don't have evil economic interests like the US and West. Russia doesn't have ruling elites controlling their economy or corrupt intelligence and government agencies like the big bad US…. Did I get that right?trey3216 said:you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
You perceive the world as black and white.ATL Bear said:You need to stay off the Twitters for a bit.Doc Holliday said:Both have ruling elites controlling their economy with corrupt intelligence and government agencies.ATL Bear said:You don't seem to understand that America is a bad guy here and Putin and Russia are as much victims as anyone. They don't have evil economic interests like the US and West. Russia doesn't have ruling elites controlling their economy or corrupt intelligence and government agencies like the big bad US…. Did I get that right?trey3216 said:you mean the same Europe lining up contracts with UAE, Qatar, Ukraine, Norway and a dozen other countries in addition to the US? The same Europe that had gas contracts with those countries to more than supply their winter needs now with the new contracts? Follow the threats, and the money. The threat is actually to the pipelines that run through Ukraine. That's Russia's last conventional play.Canada2017 said:Russia had zero reason to destroy pipelines they could simply shut off whenever they wished.Doc Holliday said:So Russia destroyed their own $20 billion dollar pipeline which would make trillions over time, expand their global sphere of influence...as a way to attack the "free world"? How dare they blow up the pipeline that USA/NATO/EU has refused to open or use and has threatened to "shut down" as a threat to Russia.Sam Lowry said:A. RussiaDoc Holliday said:
What do you think happened with the Nordstream pipelines?
A: Russia sabotaged them
B: The USA sabotaged them
C. Some other nation or group sabotaged them
D. Miraculously it wasn't sabotage
Russia could just quit delivering gas any time they wanted without needing to blow anything up. Likewise, the EU can just quit buying gas if they decided it's better to freeze. So what happened here?
The chances of the EU agreeing a peace agreement very unlikely now that there is no gas.
Like burning one's own boats, it's a message of resolve from Putin to his people and particularly his military. It's also an implicit threat to Europe and other pipelines in the vicinity.
It's more likely the US or another country shut this off to cut Russia's future money supply.
Gazprom already halted supply of Nordstrom 1 at the beginning of the month. Nordstream 2 was never activated in the first place or in use when it was blown up. This forces an energy problem for Europe because now it's not an option.
Is every narrative "Russia does bad things. Bad thing happened, therefore Russia did it"?
Biden had made threats against the pipelines just months ago .
So exactly who benefits with western Europe facing a shortage of national gas and a long cold winter coming up ?
Follow the $$$$.
Our world is grey.