Idiot talking to an idiot. https://t.co/7kK4W2ha9S
— πΎπππππππππ πΊπΈ π΄ββ οΈ (@Camelback71) January 21, 2024
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Last: 1 hr ago by 4th and Inches
Understand that concern. But above it all one must be effective at it. He is. He speaks the language of the common folk. Typically that does offend the sensitivities of the better classes.Mothra said:If he was actually instituting policies to help them, that would be one thing. But instead he appeals to their basest emotions. I am not sure that's a good thing.whiterock said:They vote. I appreciate finally having a candidate willing to make appeals to them. Democrats certainly have no reservations about doing it. Hell, they actually try to turn the educated into the dumb (woke) with identitarian ideology that shuts down reason and leads to irrational social chaos.Mothra said:In other words, the dumb people vote for Trump. There's a shocker.boognish_bear said:The early results show an extraordinary educational divide, with Haley winning highly-educated areas but failing to obtain 10 percent in many less educated precincts pic.twitter.com/rjvq6NBqjg
— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) January 16, 2024
Remember, he's appealing to a very low-turnout demographic. He's got to fire them up to get them to show up...
closer, yes. But by margins within the margin of error, and even then only in some polls. There are some that show the opposite as well (by equally thin margins).Mothra said:While I think they're more frightened by the prospect of a Trump presidency, make no mistake - their best chance of winning is Trump running, not Haley or DeSantis. Saw an article on it a few days ago in the NYT. Insiders on Biden's team are saying the same thing.whiterock said:Quite blind to reality, one is. Democrats are terrified of him. Literally engaging in authoritarian lawfare and regulatory action to prevent him from running. If he really was the easiest to beat, they'd be standing by quietly licking their chops, not trying wild-assed extraordinaries to put him in jail and strike him from the ballot.Osodecentx said:
Don't be distracted by Biden's weakness; Trump is still the candidate he wants to run against.
Recent polls show it would be a closer race if it's Trump vs Biden as opposed to Haley or DeSantis vs. Biden, who should beat Biden more easily. I just posted one from a few days ago. Our best chance of losing in 2024 is running Trump (and we will lose if it's him - wait and see).
That's pretty much what I was taught in government class = our founders were wise enough to put in place checks & balances to ensure the justice system was not usurped by political vendettas (as it has been now by Democrats).Osodecentx said:
Thursday morning at 1:00 a.m.:Quote:
A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MUST HAVE FULL IMMUNITY, WITHOUT WHICH IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM/HER TO PROPERLY FUNCTION. ANY MISTAKE, EVEN IF WELL INTENDED, WOULD BE MET WITH ALMOST CERTAIN INDICTMENT BY THE OPPOSING PARTY AT TERM END. EVEN EVENTS THAT "CROSS THE LINE" MUST FALL UNDER TOTAL IMMUNITY, OR IT WILL BE YEARS OF TRAUMA TRYING TO DETERMINE GOOD FROM BAD. THERE MUST BE CERTAINTY. EXAMPLE: YOU CAN'T STOP POLICE FROM DOING THE JOB OF STRONG & EFFECTIVE CRIME PREVENTION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GUARD AGAINST THE OCCASIONAL "ROGUE COP" OR "BAD APPLE." SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH "GREAT BUT SLIGHTLY IMPERFECT." ALL PRESIDENTS MUST HAVE COMPLETE & TOTAL PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY, OR THE AUTHORITY & DECISIVENESS OF A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE STRIPPED & GONE FOREVER. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE AN EASY DECISION. GOD BLESS THE SUPREME COURT!
Donald Trump Truth Social 12:59 AM EST 01/18/24
actually, the data does not say exactly that.KaiBear said:
If ALL registered Republicans who voted in the primaries voted for the Republican nominee in the general.
While ALL registered Democrats who voted in their primaries voted for the Dem nominee in the general.
Dems are going to win because there are millions of more registered Democrats.
Republicans HAVE to appeal to a majority.independents to stand any real chance to win. And that reality has been in place regarding national elections for DECADES.
And an old fat narcissist under several felony indictments has zero chance to do so.
This little piece of reality has been steadfastly ignored by the Republican National Committee and Republican office holders.
Who are obviously more scared of billionaire Donald Trumps impact on their own re election races than another 4 years of a Democratic president.
End of story
Historically, almost always, the vote totals in the primaries are indicative of outcome in the general = the candidate who gets more total votes in his/her primary defeats the candidate of the other party who got fewer votes in his/her primary (compared to each other). It's not at all a test of independents. It's a test of energy and enthusiasm + small number of independents crossing-in to vote for someone.
so effin' self-serving. one says a certain candidate cannot win, then does not show up to vote for said candidate, then blames all those who do show up to vote for the defeat......Whiskey Pete said:I'm not talking party loyalty. I'm talking Never Trumpers, or do you not understand that? The Never Trumpers exist across the political spectrum.KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Apologies if you didn't say uniparty, but a lot of the Trump lot fling that around.Whiskey Pete said:Never once did I say the Trump voters wouldn't be to blame. I have said, more than once, that the Never Trumpers will be as much to blame as the Only Trumpers.ATL Bear said:You openly blame people voting for Biden. Why shouldn't the Trump voters get the same scrutiny? And for all the "uniparty" "swamp" fist pounding, it's odd to see the criticisms being leveled at those that would actually be voting against that cycle.Whiskey Pete said:What is it with? Well, genius, my beef is with people who sit on their high horse and try to blame people for voting for Trump in the primary, but refuse to accept any blame for they themselves not voting for Trump in the general.FLBear5630 said:What is it with you and this if you don't love Trump you are pro-Biden??? The two are not related. If on November 1st we are in that position, than it is a decision to make. To say in January not supporting Trump is giving Biden the WH is ridiculous. My dislike of Trump has NOTHING to do with Biden. Biden is the worst President in history. It is not an either/or until November.Whiskey Pete said:Yep, the Never Trumpers (like yourself) won't check their emotions at the door, apply a little logic and just let Biden waltz right back into the White House.KaiBear said:Good grief man; forget this ' poll game '.Oldbear83 said:
I'm glad you are having fun, Mothra. But you continue to cherry-pick polls, and that won't go where you seem to think.
As for your last line, it would be nice if you started listening, but I won't hold my breath.
Let's cut to the chase.
Do you predict Trump is going to receive enough votes from women, minorites, and independents to overcome his possible convictions on multiple indictments regarding both state and federal charges ?
That Donald Trump can WIN back the White House ?
One word answers.
Mine is ' no '.
If you want to blame those voting for Trump in the primary, then you need to blame yourself for not voting for Trump in the general.
If you don't want to vote for Trump, then don't, but don't pretend it's only Trump supporters that are too blame and none of it falls on the Never Trumpers.
And I'm a DeSantis guy.
I've never said anything about "uniparty"
And make no mistake, Donald Trump, not any voters, are to blame. Bad candidates are bad candidates and he chose to run when he didn't have to.
In local elections where one party dominates bad candidates can occasionally win.
Even horribly flawed candidates.
But in national elections the Republicans are outnumbered by Democrats. So this fantasy that party loyalty in general elections are all that is required for Trump to win is ludicrous.
If you think has Biden and his policies have been awful for this country and you just sit home and let him walk back into the White House, then that's partly on you and the rest of the Never Trumpers.
This isn't hard to understand
The MAGA crowd will be to blame when Trump wins the primary
The MAGA crowd will be partly to blame when Trump loses the election, along with the blame of the Never Trumpers.
But please, stay home and not vote the big bad orange man because you think here's no point in voting anyway.
So effin' stupid.
Quote:
Desantis performed like a screen door on a submarine. Thats on him, his message didnt resonate so people gravitated back to something that worked previously.
Quote:
I'm still voting DeSantis, but I can't say that I haven't been disappointed with his campaign.
I followed the Desantis campaign closely because I liked what he was doing in Florida. In my opinion, his support was growing until this point:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/23/ron-desantis-ukraine-war-russia-territorial-dispute
After which it plateaued and slowly began to decrease. Taking up John McCain's talking points did not help him with a base deeply distrustful of democrats and establishment republicans. Nor did showing a willingness to reverse course and apologize to said establishment.
It is sort of like the moment when Cruz said a Muslim ban was unamerican. You could sense the cringe from the electorate.
you both missed it.FLBear5630 said:ATL Bear said:
Trump doesn't need my vote to win. He needs the votes of people he used to attract but no longer does.
Trump isn't an outsider or a swamp drainer. He's like the Burmese Python in the Everglades. A new apex predator competing for his own dominance and benefit. His talent has been to use his emotional approach to get people emotionally invested in him and distracted from who and what he is. It's a bizarre loyalty built on countering anything not Trump (friend or foe). Trumpers will roast Nikki Hailey for her service on Boeing's Board and consulting gigs, but Trump made 10x more getting favorable debt restructure terms thanks to JP Morgan and political insider relationships not much more than a year after leaving office. He got more cash after leaving office, while under the threat of indictment, and in the middle of rising rates, post COVID economy, inflationary Biden-nomics, etc.
This cult of personality seems to wash away so many failings with the only defense being "the other guy really sucks!" Time to stop being binary. They both can be bad even if for differing reasons.
You nailed it.
Trump has no more of a personality cult than Haley.
Trump is an iconoclast; Haley is an establishmentarian.
Trump is building a new GOP coalition; Haley is trying to hold together an old one.
Trump is making a positive appeal (support me); Haley is making a negative appeal (I'm not him).
In almost every respect, SHE is just as much of a cult of personality as Trump is.
SHE is the avatar for Foreign Policy Adventures.
SHE is the avatar for the centrist appeal, the rejection of populism.
SHE is the avatar for never/anti-Trumpism.
That she does not fire up her base as much of Trump has a lot to do with her base - moderates, by definition, don't get excited about much and are a little alarmed at people who do.
I'm not exactly a Haley-hater. Actually have defended her a few times, noting her strengths (as well as weaknesses). But just because her supporters, mostly moderates, aren't as excitable as the MAGA crowd does not mean that her appeal isn't just as visceral.
If Trump's appeals did not resonate on an intellectual level, he would not be where he is today. He is tapping into growing sentiments that social contract is not just failing to serve the common folk, but actually harming them. Nobody else (except Vivek mostly and RDS somewhat) is really speaking to it.
If Trump dropped out, very little of his support would flow to Haley. It would all go to VR or RDS. Because they are the ones speaking to popular discontent with establishments (and Haley is not).
Let's keep it simple.Oldbear83 said:Actually, I gave you a clear answer. The arrogance comes from demanding I say things in the way you want, and refusing to accept a plain response that does not please you.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Just read what I already posted. Lord knows I have been clear.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:The polls have generally been right except for 2016. They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Hard to understand why you cannot accept that fact.
I am going on record that Trump will lose. And just as an added caveat I say he will lose worse than he did in 2020.
So come on
Make your call. Trump wins the general or not ?
A total non answer .
Instead of a simple yes or no I am required to dig up your old comments and analyze them.
Talk about arrogance.
A name? One name you want to see win.
For me at least, it's not your defense of Trump that causes me to say you are a Trumpster. It's ignoring ample evidence that he is not the guy who is best equipped to defeat the Democrat nominee that causes me to question your motives.Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I want DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
When you just completely ignore a number of polls that show both of the other contenders soundly beating Biden - as you have done on this thread - or just completely and obtusely blow it off, it should be no surprise that people question your allegiances.
Some polls show Trump with a miniscule lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup, others don't. I saw one yesterday in PA - a state that Trump essentially has to win to have a chance to win the presidency - that has Biden with a small lead. But what is clear is that polls as of late show that Haley and DeSantis both have a much more commanding lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup. It's a shame you want to ignore that evidence.
Do you not recall how this exchange started? Do you think you played no role in how we got here? You're the poster who started with the personal attacks, my friend.Oldbear83 said:Mothra said:
SMH. Saying your personally attack others is a personal attack.
Oy vey.
Look at your last several posts, you literally cannot post without the same tired, stale 'old man yells at clouds' lie.
Ironic in particular since you are the angry one here, mad just because Trump still leads in most of the polls, and you blow up whenever someone mentions it, even forgetting that I and others support non-Trump candidates: we just won't ignore Reality because our guy is losing.
This is what I mean when I say you have a massive blind spot.
That's my only point - polls show Haley and DeSantis are the better matchup. But alas, we will never know for certain, since we all know it's going to be Trump.whiterock said:closer, yes. But by margins within the margin of error, and even then only in some polls. There are some that show the opposite as well (by equally thin margins).Mothra said:While I think they're more frightened by the prospect of a Trump presidency, make no mistake - their best chance of winning is Trump running, not Haley or DeSantis. Saw an article on it a few days ago in the NYT. Insiders on Biden's team are saying the same thing.whiterock said:Quite blind to reality, one is. Democrats are terrified of him. Literally engaging in authoritarian lawfare and regulatory action to prevent him from running. If he really was the easiest to beat, they'd be standing by quietly licking their chops, not trying wild-assed extraordinaries to put him in jail and strike him from the ballot.Osodecentx said:
Don't be distracted by Biden's weakness; Trump is still the candidate he wants to run against.
Recent polls show it would be a closer race if it's Trump vs Biden as opposed to Haley or DeSantis vs. Biden, who should beat Biden more easily. I just posted one from a few days ago. Our best chance of losing in 2024 is running Trump (and we will lose if it's him - wait and see).
I have little hope Trump can win in another matchup with Biden, once he gets more airtime, and is the sole focus. He has benefited from not being completely in the limelight (similar to Biden being in the basement in 2020). But if he engages in debates, and starts getting more airtime, I suspect he reminds all of those who considered voting for him why they will vote (once again) for Biden. Coulter is going to be right on this one.
I am not sure if it was that as much as him coming under attack from Trump and his minions, accusing him of being a lib in sheep's clothing. It was a ridiculous and false attack of course - not that that matters to the Trumpsters. I had at least two, not so bright, Trump supporters who told me that very thing. There's no reasoning with them. If Trump says it, it's essentially God saying it in their minds.Realitybites said:Quote:
Desantis performed like a screen door on a submarine. Thats on him, his message didnt resonate so people gravitated back to something that worked previously.Quote:
I'm still voting DeSantis, but I can't say that I haven't been disappointed with his campaign.
I followed the Desantis campaign closely because I liked what he was doing in Florida. In my opinion, his support was growing until this point:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/23/ron-desantis-ukraine-war-russia-territorial-dispute
After which it plateaued and slowly began to decrease. Taking up John McCain's talking points did not help him with a base deeply distrustful of democrats and establishment republicans. Nor did showing a willingness to reverse course and apologize to said establishment.
It is sort of like the moment when Cruz said a Muslim ban was unamerican. You could sense the cringe from the electorate.
2024 is going to be a total **** show. It actually scares me for our country.
This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
i have seen the polls showing others do better against Biden than Trump but the person who could beat Biden in the general has to win the support of the voting base and win the primary. Trump has the support of the base. He will carry the majority in Haleys home state and RDS home state. Saying Trump should drop out for a canidate that gets 21% of the base or a 19% of the base canidate is unrealisticMothra said:For me at least, it's not your defense of Trump that causes me to say you are a Trumpster. It's ignoring ample evidence that he is not the guy who is best equipped to defeat the Democrat nominee that causes me to question your motives.Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I want DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
When you just completely ignore a number of polls that show both of the other contenders soundly beating Biden - as you have done on this thread - or just completely and obtusely blow it off, it should be no surprise that people question your allegiances.
Some polls show Trump with a miniscule lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup, others don't. I saw one yesterday in PA - a state that Trump essentially has to win to have a chance to win the presidency - that has Biden with a small lead. But what is clear is that polls as of late show that Haley and DeSantis both have a much more commanding lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup. It's a shame you want to ignore that evidence.
The will of the people have chosen and you dont like it. The 81 million that voted for Biden and probably 2/3 of the 75million that voted for Trump are disagreeing with you. You are definitely in the minority in your political world view.
I think you are right on this. You have to be a bombastic self-aggrandizing blowhard nowdays to win elections. DeSantis is too reasoned in his messaging. He needs to sprinkle in some juvenile name calling. That's what resonates in the day of social media and reality TV.4th and Inches said:lol, of the 160 million voters in the last election, how many of them are "reasonable" voters? Recent elections are all about feelings and that isnt reasonable when picking a president yet here we areSam Lowry said:Is his message all that different from Trump's? If you mean his personality didn't resonate, sure. Seems like reasonable voters could get past that, though.4th and Inches said:Desantis performed like a screen door on a submarine. Thats on him, his message didnt resonate so people gravitated back to something that worked previously.Sam Lowry said:MAGA voters rejected politics as usual in 2016. They didn't actually step outside the system until 1/6/21. There's no reason they couldn't go with DeSantis in 2024 except for the personality cult.4th and Inches said:establishment politics is entirely to blame. %A0Figure it out, MAGA voters told yall enough was enough and stepped outside the system because it wasnt working for them. Trump was an outsider in 2016.. Ramswamy who is an absolute nobody got 8%. %A0People should look at that.. a huge voting block hates the direction of the country, you have to have them to win. %A0To pull the MAGA voter back from Trump to alternative canidates, you have to ask them what they want and come up with a plan to solve it. %A0Trump is picking up people who are not doing well now but were during his presidency. %A0Sam Lowry said:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
Had Biden been status quo, Trump would be out. Had Biden been effective, Trump would be out. Because Biden is an absolute disaster, Trump is in. %A0Because GOP hasnt learned any lessons since 2008, It has set itself up for failure again. MAGA isnt at fault, lack of a message the resonates with all the GOP is at fault. When the main part of your voting base is displeased, do something different.
God help us. We are ****ed.
Oh, I completely agree with this. Our electorate is composed of idiots (see my post above), as you suggested above. I have no question that the will of our uneducated electorate is Trump. I am merely lamenting that fact. It is what it is.4th and Inches said:i have seen the polls showing others do better against Biden than Trump but the person who could beat Biden in the general has to win the support of the voting base and win the primary. Trump has the support of the base. He will carry the majority in Haleys home state and RDS home state. Saying Trump should drop out for a canidate that gets 21% of the base or a 19% of the base canidate is unrealisticMothra said:For me at least, it's not your defense of Trump that causes me to say you are a Trumpster. It's ignoring ample evidence that he is not the guy who is best equipped to defeat the Democrat nominee that causes me to question your motives.Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I want DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
When you just completely ignore a number of polls that show both of the other contenders soundly beating Biden - as you have done on this thread - or just completely and obtusely blow it off, it should be no surprise that people question your allegiances.
Some polls show Trump with a miniscule lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup, others don't. I saw one yesterday in PA - a state that Trump essentially has to win to have a chance to win the presidency - that has Biden with a small lead. But what is clear is that polls as of late show that Haley and DeSantis both have a much more commanding lead over Biden in a hypothetical matchup. It's a shame you want to ignore that evidence.
The will of the people have chosen and you dont like it. The 81 million that voted for Biden and probably 2/3 of the 75million that voted for Trump are disagreeing with you. You are definitely in the minority in your political world view.
And those dumbasses who are voting Trump in the primary are going to be shocked and claiming fraud when Trump loses (again). Hopefully there are no riots this time.
My only consolation is Trump will likely be dead in 2028. Otherwise, God help us.
75% of recent polls show trump winning the popular vote and all of the polls showing 2% in favor of Joe Biden are within the MOE for a Trump win as well.Mothra said:This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Remember that Joe won by like 5-6 million but really he only won by a few hundred thousand across all the swings and that was with way better polling. Trump has never polled this high and never lead in a national poll in any of the prior election cycles except for an occasional swing state poll or two close to the finish in 2020.
That's kind of my point. I don't think Trump voters are necessarily looking for a candidate who can come up with a plan to solve real problems. Trump is all over the place when it comes to actual planning. What they want is someone who makes them feel good.4th and Inches said:lol, of the 160 million voters in the last election, how many of them are "reasonable" voters? Recent elections are all about feelings and that isnt reasonable when picking a president yet here we areSam Lowry said:Is his message all that different from Trump's? If you mean his personality didn't resonate, sure. Seems like reasonable voters could get past that, though.4th and Inches said:Desantis performed like a screen door on a submarine. Thats on him, his message didnt resonate so people gravitated back to something that worked previously.Sam Lowry said:MAGA voters rejected politics as usual in 2016. They didn't actually step outside the system until 1/6/21. There's no reason they couldn't go with DeSantis in 2024 except for the personality cult.4th and Inches said:establishment politics is entirely to blame. %A0Figure it out, MAGA voters told yall enough was enough and stepped outside the system because it wasnt working for them. Trump was an outsider in 2016.. Ramswamy who is an absolute nobody got 8%. %A0People should look at that.. a huge voting block hates the direction of the country, you have to have them to win. %A0To pull the MAGA voter back from Trump to alternative canidates, you have to ask them what they want and come up with a plan to solve it. %A0Trump is picking up people who are not doing well now but were during his presidency. %A0Sam Lowry said:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
Had Biden been status quo, Trump would be out. Had Biden been effective, Trump would be out. Because Biden is an absolute disaster, Trump is in. %A0Because GOP hasnt learned any lessons since 2008, It has set itself up for failure again. MAGA isnt at fault, lack of a message the resonates with all the GOP is at fault. When the main part of your voting base is displeased, do something different.
Consistently would suggest all of the polls show a Trump win. Just yesterday, a PA poll came out with Trump losing.4th and Inches said:75% of recent polls show trump winning the popular vote and all of the polls showing 2% in favor of Joe Biden are within the MOE for a Trump win as well.Mothra said:This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Remember that Joe won by like 5-6 million but really he only won by a few hundred thousand across all the swings and that was with way better polling. Trump has never polled this high and never lead in a national poll in any of the prior election cycles except for an occasional swing state poll or two close to the finish in 2020.
The key is the battleground states. Whether Trump has increased his lead in Texas is irrelevant.
It's just not going to happen, IMO. As I said above, Trump getting more airtime is a terrible thing. Him being the only nominee is likewise a bad thing. Just wait and see how he's polling come Autumn.
Could I be wrong? Sure, and I hope I am. As I have said consistently, anything is preferable to Biden. But I suspect I won't be wrong, and we are going to be asking ourselves how we lost yet another election to the current geriatric commander-in-chief (when we already know the answer).
Unless you grew up in Germany in the 1930s, that's pretty much the opposite of what you were taught in government class. Total immunity for wrongdoing isn't what the Founders meant by checks and balances.whiterock said:That's pretty much what I was taught in government class = our founders were wise enough to put in place checks & balances to ensure the justice system was not usurped by political vendettas (as it has been now by Democrats).Osodecentx said:
Thursday morning at 1:00 a.m.:Quote:
A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MUST HAVE FULL IMMUNITY, WITHOUT WHICH IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM/HER TO PROPERLY FUNCTION. ANY MISTAKE, EVEN IF WELL INTENDED, WOULD BE MET WITH ALMOST CERTAIN INDICTMENT BY THE OPPOSING PARTY AT TERM END. EVEN EVENTS THAT "CROSS THE LINE" MUST FALL UNDER TOTAL IMMUNITY, OR IT WILL BE YEARS OF TRAUMA TRYING TO DETERMINE GOOD FROM BAD. THERE MUST BE CERTAINTY. EXAMPLE: YOU CAN'T STOP POLICE FROM DOING THE JOB OF STRONG & EFFECTIVE CRIME PREVENTION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GUARD AGAINST THE OCCASIONAL "ROGUE COP" OR "BAD APPLE." SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH "GREAT BUT SLIGHTLY IMPERFECT." ALL PRESIDENTS MUST HAVE COMPLETE & TOTAL PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY, OR THE AUTHORITY & DECISIVENESS OF A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE STRIPPED & GONE FOREVER. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE AN EASY DECISION. GOD BLESS THE SUPREME COURT!
Donald Trump Truth Social 12:59 AM EST 01/18/24
Do we already know the answer? I've said for the last three years that the only sure way to stop Trump was to reject him unconditionally. Saying you'll vote for him in the general only encourages him.Mothra said:Consistently would suggest all of the polls show a Trump win. Just yesterday, a PA poll came out with Trump losing.4th and Inches said:75% of recent polls show trump winning the popular vote and all of the polls showing 2% in favor of Joe Biden are within the MOE for a Trump win as well.Mothra said:This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Remember that Joe won by like 5-6 million but really he only won by a few hundred thousand across all the swings and that was with way better polling. Trump has never polled this high and never lead in a national poll in any of the prior election cycles except for an occasional swing state poll or two close to the finish in 2020.
The key is the battleground states. Whether Trump has increased his lead in Texas is irrelevant.
It's just not going to happen, IMO. As I said above, Trump getting more airtime is a terrible thing. Him being the only nominee is likewise a bad thing. Just wait and see how he's polling come Autumn.
Could I be wrong? Sure, and I hope I am. As I have said consistently, anything is preferable to Biden. But I suspect I won't be wrong, and we are going to be asking ourselves how we lost yet another election to the current geriatric commander-in-chief (when we already know the answer).
FLBear5630 said:Let's keep it simple.Oldbear83 said:Actually, I gave you a clear answer. The arrogance comes from demanding I say things in the way you want, and refusing to accept a plain response that does not please you.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Just read what I already posted. Lord knows I have been clear.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:The polls have generally been right except for 2016. They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Hard to understand why you cannot accept that fact.
I am going on record that Trump will lose. And just as an added caveat I say he will lose worse than he did in 2020.
So come on
Make your call. Trump wins the general or not ?
A total non answer .
Instead of a simple yes or no I am required to dig up your old comments and analyze them.
Talk about arrogance.
A name? One name you want to see win.
DeSantis. Said that months ago.
Mothra said:This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
No, it's just reporting the polls.
Mothra said:Do you not recall how this exchange started? Do you think you played no role in how we got here? You're the poster who started with the personal attacks, my friend.Oldbear83 said:Mothra said:
SMH. Saying your personally attack others is a personal attack.
Oy vey.
Look at your last several posts, you literally cannot post without the same tired, stale 'old man yells at clouds' lie.
Ironic in particular since you are the angry one here, mad just because Trump still leads in most of the polls, and you blow up whenever someone mentions it, even forgetting that I and others support non-Trump candidates: we just won't ignore Reality because our guy is losing.
This is what I mean when I say you have a massive blind spot.
If you believe I engaged in personal attacks and they are bad, why have you committed to them in pretty much every one of your posts in the last ten days or so?
You wanna talk about blind spots, check the mirror first.
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
His voters think this is a reality TV show and his "Your Fired" shtick is amusing. He is an entertainer, not a Stateman. Sadly, it is working.Sam Lowry said:That's kind of my point. I don't think Trump voters are necessarily looking for a candidate who can come up with a plan to solve real problems. Trump is all over the place when it comes to actual planning. What they want is someone who makes them feel good.4th and Inches said:lol, of the 160 million voters in the last election, how many of them are "reasonable" voters? Recent elections are all about feelings and that isnt reasonable when picking a president yet here we areSam Lowry said:Is his message all that different from Trump's? If you mean his personality didn't resonate, sure. Seems like reasonable voters could get past that, though.4th and Inches said:Desantis performed like a screen door on a submarine. Thats on him, his message didnt resonate so people gravitated back to something that worked previously.Sam Lowry said:MAGA voters rejected politics as usual in 2016. They didn't actually step outside the system until 1/6/21. There's no reason they couldn't go with DeSantis in 2024 except for the personality cult.4th and Inches said:establishment politics is entirely to blame. %A0Figure it out, MAGA voters told yall enough was enough and stepped outside the system because it wasnt working for them. Trump was an outsider in 2016.. Ramswamy who is an absolute nobody got 8%. %A0People should look at that.. a huge voting block hates the direction of the country, you have to have them to win. %A0To pull the MAGA voter back from Trump to alternative canidates, you have to ask them what they want and come up with a plan to solve it. %A0Trump is picking up people who are not doing well now but were during his presidency. %A0Sam Lowry said:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
Had Biden been status quo, Trump would be out. Had Biden been effective, Trump would be out. Because Biden is an absolute disaster, Trump is in. %A0Because GOP hasnt learned any lessons since 2008, It has set itself up for failure again. MAGA isnt at fault, lack of a message the resonates with all the GOP is at fault. When the main part of your voting base is displeased, do something different.
Trump is DOA in a General Election. What you say may be true about the GOP losing, but Trump has no shot of winning a General. He is too flawed and disliked by 55% of the electorate. His only shot is low turnout and if he runs it will be record setting. May be time for a new Party, not the first time in our history. But the GOP looks about done if Trump is standard bearer and represents the best shot.Doc Holliday said:
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
good luck telling the people that are hurting now but were thriving under Trump that they are wrong to vote for him.. rent has outpaced wages by 170% during Biden admin. Food has massively increased in price as well. Daily life items have been greatly effected.Sam Lowry said:Do we already know the answer? I've said for the last three years that the only sure way to stop Trump was to reject him unconditionally. Saying you'll vote for him in the general only encourages him.Mothra said:Consistently would suggest all of the polls show a Trump win. Just yesterday, a PA poll came out with Trump losing.4th and Inches said:75% of recent polls show trump winning the popular vote and all of the polls showing 2% in favor of Joe Biden are within the MOE for a Trump win as well.Mothra said:This is just a total fabrication.Oldbear83 said:They consistently show Trump winning if he gets the nomination.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Only the sane believe Trump can win.KaiBear said:Oldbear83 said:Another argument which depends heavily on insults and arrogance, while ignoring the point.KaiBear said:Whiskey Pete said:Never Trumpers to blame as well if Biden walks back into the White House.Quote:
MAGA voters are entirely to blame. Trump is unqualified for the office. By nominating him, they will have left conservatives with no legitimate choice but to stay home.
If you stay and don't vote in the general, then those folks can shut their ass and stop complaining about a Biden White House when their inability to check their emotions at the door contributed to Dementia Joe strolling right back into the Oval Office
LOL
You just can not comprehend the most basic realities.
If all republicans are somehow obligated to vote for Trump in the general.
Then by your logic all Democrats would be obligated to vote for Biden.
So Trump loses.
As there are millions more registered Democrats than Republicans.
So to stand any chance of winning Trump has to garner a significant majority of the votes of independents.
Which he obviously can't.
But the MAGA crowd is going to nominate him anyway.
Then blame others when Trump loses still again.
Now exactly what part of this can you not get through your prepubescent brain ?
So let's try this again:
Trump may win or he may lose in November if he wins the GOP nomination, but the polls have constantly shown he has support among Independents, he absolutely can win.
{ should not have to do this, but because any defense of Trump is considered evidence of somehow wanting Trump to win the nomination - I was DESANTIS to win the nomination, but this is about the BS by the people working hard for Biden by lying about the facts}
Roughly seventy million people voted for Trump in 2020, so pretending he doesn't have a lot of support is a stupid lie. The polls have shown Trump in front not only of his GOP opponents but also Biden for a long time now, and he seems to be gaining among minorities and independents. We can argue about why this is happening, but it's dumb to pretend it's not happening.
Trump lost in 2020 by millions of votes.
Now he is under indictment for various state and federal crimes. In some cases multi counts. Think it doesn't matter to non fanatics ?
LOL good grief what if Trump catches a conviction before Election Day ? Even on a single count of a single indictment ?
How can anyone really believe Trump will still win ?
It's ludicrous.
Anyone 'can' win.
Stop straddling the fence .
Is Trump going to win the general election if he is the nominee β¦..,yes or no ?
Despite indictments, despite a potential conviction, despite an uncanny compulsion to say politically self destructive things ?
Not a chance.
Remember that Joe won by like 5-6 million but really he only won by a few hundred thousand across all the swings and that was with way better polling. Trump has never polled this high and never lead in a national poll in any of the prior election cycles except for an occasional swing state poll or two close to the finish in 2020.
The key is the battleground states. Whether Trump has increased his lead in Texas is irrelevant.
It's just not going to happen, IMO. As I said above, Trump getting more airtime is a terrible thing. Him being the only nominee is likewise a bad thing. Just wait and see how he's polling come Autumn.
Could I be wrong? Sure, and I hope I am. As I have said consistently, anything is preferable to Biden. But I suspect I won't be wrong, and we are going to be asking ourselves how we lost yet another election to the current geriatric commander-in-chief (when we already know the answer).
Winning elections is about getting people to remember the old days when life was good for them and then tell them why those days are not here any longer. Trump does that perfectly. Its not that Haley and RDS dont know how to fix the problems, its they cant sell their solution!
Biden is running almost the identical 55% disapproval rating in recent polls on 538.FLBear5630 said:Trump is DOA in a General Election. What you say may be true about the GOP losing, but Trump has no shot of winning a General. He is too flawed and disliked by 55% of the electorate. His only shot is low turnout and if he runs it will be record setting. May be time for a new Party, not the first time in our history. But the GOP looks about done if Trump is standard bearer and represents the best shot.Doc Holliday said:
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
Trump on Viktor Orban:
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) January 21, 2024
βA great man, a great leader in Europeβ¦Some people don't like him because he's too strong. It's good to have a strong man at the head of a country.β
Facts: Orban Is Putinβs main ally in Europe. Orban Is the most hated and isolated leader in the EU, andβ¦ pic.twitter.com/7PW0lz53T8
We are down to how the vote breaks on:4th and Inches said:Biden is running almost the identical 55% disapproval rating in recent polls on 538.FLBear5630 said:Trump is DOA in a General Election. What you say may be true about the GOP losing, but Trump has no shot of winning a General. He is too flawed and disliked by 55% of the electorate. His only shot is low turnout and if he runs it will be record setting. May be time for a new Party, not the first time in our history. But the GOP looks about done if Trump is standard bearer and represents the best shot.Doc Holliday said:
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
Will the Trump-haters still vote for him over ****ty Biden?
Will those that think Biden sucks still vote for him over ******* Trump?
Nice to have quality choices.
i know 2020 Biden voters that claim they are "not voting for Biden in 24 even if it means Trump is president again"FLBear5630 said:We are down to how the vote breaks on:4th and Inches said:Biden is running almost the identical 55% disapproval rating in recent polls on 538.FLBear5630 said:Trump is DOA in a General Election. What you say may be true about the GOP losing, but Trump has no shot of winning a General. He is too flawed and disliked by 55% of the electorate. His only shot is low turnout and if he runs it will be record setting. May be time for a new Party, not the first time in our history. But the GOP looks about done if Trump is standard bearer and represents the best shot.Doc Holliday said:
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
Will the Trump-haters still vote for him over ****ty Biden?
Will those that think Biden sucks still vote for him over ******* Trump?
Nice to have quality choices.
It's going to be interesting because I think if you look at the primaries and count of all the votes for one side and count up all the votes for the other side, it'll probably give you a reasonable idea who's gonna win the general. Shows voter enthusiasm.
If you can pinpoint it down to a couple of swing states to really focus on and energize your base, that could lead to a win for either side
What poster have I attacked personally the last 10 days?Oldbear83 said:Mothra said:Do you not recall how this exchange started? Do you think you played no role in how we got here? You're the poster who started with the personal attacks, my friend.Oldbear83 said:Mothra said:
SMH. Saying your personally attack others is a personal attack.
Oy vey.
Look at your last several posts, you literally cannot post without the same tired, stale 'old man yells at clouds' lie.
Ironic in particular since you are the angry one here, mad just because Trump still leads in most of the polls, and you blow up whenever someone mentions it, even forgetting that I and others support non-Trump candidates: we just won't ignore Reality because our guy is losing.
This is what I mean when I say you have a massive blind spot.
If you believe I engaged in personal attacks and they are bad, why have you committed to them in pretty much every one of your posts in the last ten days or so?
You wanna talk about blind spots, check the mirror first.
The answer is none.
I could care less about your snarky responses. I just find it hilarious you complain about mine, when you engage in the same type of communications.
Source?Doc Holliday said:
Do some of yall not realize that Trump lost the presidency by 22,500 votes across 3 states combined?
Every candidate running is going to get about 10M less votes than Trump did in 2020. Nobody stands a chance against Democrats other than Trump right now. You may not like it, but it's the truth of the situation.
The idea that nobody stands a chance against Biden other than Trump is a bunch of bull**** put out there by the Trumpsters, when the polls show just the opposite.
Trump hasn't won anything since 2016, when he caught lightning in a bottle. Stop drinking the Trump Kool-Aid.