boognish_bear said:

---

Harris has gained about a point in national polls over the past week while state polls have been ~unchanged. This looks like mean reversion after a phase where national polls were closing toward tipping-point state polls. pic.twitter.com/7KhfMVgj1J

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 2, 2024

---

thats a Trump EV win based on current polling numbers listed there

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

The problem with the "Never Trump" kind of Republicans is they completely ignore decades of identity politics and radical grievance mongering on the Left

They act like it's not happening, started with Trump (laughable idea), or that it's ok from the Left but just not from the right.

They have played a big hand in getting us here

Dude, it's not a grand conspiracy, Catholicism is intrinsically opposed to much of social liberalism, we're very open about this. https://t.co/Q0MJXlz8O3

— Good Tweetman (@Goodtweet_man) October 3, 2024

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

Sounds like there is an actual discussion/Debare among this group instead of heated up anger and BS.
So, after reading these last few posts, it would appear that there is the implication that both Kasich and Trump are RINOS? Not trying to be cute, just wanting to clarify.

BUDOS said:

---

Sounds like there is an actual discussion/Debare among this group instead of heated up anger and BS.
So, after reading these last few posts, it would appear that there is the implication that both Kasich and Trump are RINOS? Not trying to be cute, just wanting to clarify.

---

I don't think RINOS is a very good term.

There are many factions/ideologies in the GOP

I have serious problems with Bush and Romney but I would never say they are not Republicans.

One was President on a GOP ticket and the other a Presidential candidate.

Kasich and Trump are also Republicans….some just don't like their specific brands of Republicanism

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.
.

---

Yea he is a classic example of Liberal-conservative

A group that has long had an disproportional representation in GOP leadership


[Liberal-conservatism is a political ideology combining conservative policies with liberal stances, especially on economic issues but also on social and ethical matters, representing a brand of political conservatism strongly influenced by liberalism]

Liberal-conservatives are Republicans

I just don't personally like them

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

---

He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

---

He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

---

the existence of the Neocons has given the isolationists the best boogeyman they've ever had to attack. What will they do when all the NeoCon lions die off?

boognish_bear said:

---

---

Hope Musk has expanded his personal security detail .

BUDOS said:

---

Sounds like there is an actual discussion/Debare among this group instead of heated up anger and BS.
So, after reading these last few posts, it would appear that there is the implication that both Kasich and Trump are RINOS? Not trying to be cute, just wanting to clarify.

---

Not sure if RINOs is the right term for either, as both hold mostly conservative positions, though I do think Kasich is more moderate on the conservative positions, whereas Trump holds some positions that are outright populist. Neither are traditional limited govt. conservatives - though at least Trump was non-interventionist.

To be honest, we haven't had a true conservative in office in decades. Reagan probably came closest, though he was hampered by a Democrat congress, and agreed to some things that today would be beyond the pale. Bush I and II were neocons. And Bush II was a huge spender, whereas dad at least tried to rein in the spending. Bush II was a huge disappointment. McCain and Romney are probably more in line with Kasich - very moderate conservatives who are big fans of foreign wars.

Alas, we have done a pretty poor job of nominating actual conservatives for years.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

---

He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

---

I am not saying he was a RINO - he certainly was conservative in the John McCain/Mitt Romney establishment sense, if you consider that traditional conservative. I guess where we disagree is that those kind of Republicans are all that conservative.

I mean, when you tax energy producers, support same sex marriage and transgender rights, support gun bans and legalization of drugs, and support expansions of Obamacare, those are pretty antithetical to conservative positions, regardless of whether you agree with them. And he certainly pivoted some to the left after leaving office.

Not saying there are things I don't like about Kasich. Indeed, I like his spending habits more than Trump's for sure. But I just think the Mitt Romney-types are going to have trouble winning elections in the future.

EDIT: I am not saying Kasich was a neocon but that he did hold some of those positions. He did support every single invasion during the Bush years, and some of our foreign adventurism since that time. Found an article that says he regretted voting yes on Iraq.

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

---

He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

---

the existence of the Neocons has given the isolationists the best boogeyman they've ever had to attack. What will they do when all the NeoCon lions die off?

---

I wouldn't call Trump an "isolationist." I would describe him as a "non-interventionist" in the Reagan mold. There is a difference.

Neocon, to me, is a term reserved for the Dick Cheney's and John McCain's of the world, who never found a foreign war they didn't like, and repeatedly urged us to intervene. Hell, McCain is largely responsible for the mess in Ukraine. When you're willing to lie about WMDs in Iraq to get us involved in a completely unnecessary war there that kills or mains thousands of our boys, you are a problem.

EDIT: And for the record, I do agree there are some isolationist nuts in conservative circles that idolize Putin.

ShooterTX said:

---

It's one thing to say that you have problems with Trump and that you will have to "hold your nose" and vote Republican.

It's another thing entirely to support and vote for Kamala. That's no different than voting for Mao, Stalin, or Castro. Just like them, her policies will lead to the deaths of millions. She is a totalitarian just like them. She may not profess to be a communist, but she does crave total power and total control over the average person.
This isn't about liberal vs conservative or capitalist vs socialist... this is about individual liberty vs centralized control.
Kamala is a direct threat to our lives!

---

To be fair, Kasich didn't say he's supporting Harris, just that he's not voting for Trump.

I still think that is a a bat**** crazy position, given that it is a vote for the last 3.5 years of leftist insanity, but it's still not as bad as voting Harris.

historian said:

---

John McCain & Mitt Romney are RINO's. They often seem to agree with the Dems than with the GOP.

---

So, if they agree with the Dems, they are RINO's and should not be elected...

Dems that agree with the GOP are DINO's and should not be elected...

You wonder why we can't get anything done?

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

---

We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

---

He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

---

I am not saying he was a RINO - he certainly was conservative in the John McCain/Mitt Romney establishment sense, if you consider that traditional conservative. I guess where we disagree is that those kind of Republicans are all that conservative.

I mean, when you tax energy producers, support same sex marriage and transgender rights, support gun bans and legalization of drugs, and support expansions of Obamacare, those are pretty antithetical to conservative positions, regardless of whether you agree with them. And he certainly pivoted some to the left after leaving office.

Not saying there are things I don't like about Kasich. Indeed, I like his spending habits more than Trump's for sure. But I just think the Mitt Romney-types are going to have trouble winning elections in the future.

EDIT: I am not saying Kasich was a neocon but that he did hold some of those positions. He did support every single invasion during the Bush years, and some of our foreign adventurism since that time. Found an article that says he regretted voting yes on Iraq.

---

He definitely got worse out of office. I think he came down with a bad case of TDS.

Mothra said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

It's one thing to say that you have problems with Trump and that you will have to "hold your nose" and vote Republican.

It's another thing entirely to support and vote for Kamala. That's no different than voting for Mao, Stalin, or Castro. Just like them, her policies will lead to the deaths of millions. She is a totalitarian just like them. She may not profess to be a communist, but she does crave total power and total control over the average person.
This isn't about liberal vs conservative or capitalist vs socialist... this is about individual liberty vs centralized control.
Kamala is a direct threat to our lives!

---

To be fair, Kasich didn't say he's supporting Harris, just that he's not voting for Trump.

I still think that is a a bat**** crazy position, given that it is a vote for the last 3.5 years of leftist insanity, but it's still not as bad as voting Harris.

---

Who else would he vote for? Realistically there are only two choices. If he's not voting for Trump he's voting for Kam. He's just afraid to admit it publicly.

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

John McCain & Mitt Romney are RINO's. They often seem to agree with the Dems than with the GOP.

---

So, if they agree with the Dems, they are RINO's and should not be elected...

Dems that agree with the GOP are DINO's and should not be elected...

You wonder why we can't get anything done?

---

Dems who vote with Republicans are the sane ones. That just means they still hold on to some American values such as freedom & morality. The Dems are radical Marxists with an agenda that is entirely evil. Their only values are the lust for power to impose their will on everyone else.

There are not many Dems in Congress who will vote with the GOP. How many votes for the SAVE Act to protect our votes? None.

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Some people think that I hate Trump. I don't. I simply don't think America's president should be a person who fuels grievances to divide us and doesn't have a hopeful vision for our future.

I'm a lifelong conservative Republican, but I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

— John Kasich (@JohnKasich) October 2, 2024

---

What a load of bull*****
This guy is just as much a "conservative" as the Cheneys. They are just a bunch of corrupt, war mongers. These are not actual conservatives who care about the future of our nation.

---

Kasich is very much a conservative and has an actual record to prove it.

If we base the analysis on traditional conservative positions, it is Trump and Vance who are RINOs:

- Major tax increases (Vance)
- Tariffs (both)
- Increasing deficits (both)
- Trade restrictions (both)
- Siding with big labor (both)
- Price controls (both)
- Softening on abortion (both)
- Praise of Putin/Harsh criticism of Zelensky (both)
- COVID lockdowns (Trump)
- Opposing any and all entitlement reform (both)
- Falsely clinging to rigged election and refusing to admit defeat (both)

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We talking about the same Kasich who as governor vetoed a bill outlawing abortion after 6 week, has signed executive orders supporting same sex marriage and gender identity, supports a federal assault weapons ban, has supported bills attempting to curb climate change including raising taxes on frackers, has supported bills reducing prison sentences and guidelines for convicted felons, has supported legislation calling for greater "accountability" among police officers, has said he'd strongly consider a national legalization of recreational marijuana, and expressed neocon views on foreign wars?

Man can't agree that Kasich is very much a conservative. I will agree he is a moderate conservative but his positions have very much evolved since his days in Congress. What I just described are not traditional conservative positions.

That said, you'll get no argument from me that Trump and Vance are traditional conservatives either. They don't seem to want to reduce the size of government, though I can't say that Kasich really does either. One thing I do know is I much prefer their foreign policy positions than Kasich's.

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He had a strong pro-life record and was always endorsed and supported by pro-life groups. Abortions were but I'm half and numerous clinics closed due to his actions/legislation. On the 6 week bill, he was right. It was unconstitutional at the time and would have cost OH taxpayers $millions in a futile effort.

He cut taxes and spending and balanced the budget despite inheriting a crap economy and huge deficits.

I agree with him on sentencing reform and marijuana.

I also have no problem with state laws protecting LGBTQ from discrimination as long as there are religious exemptions.

I'm not familiar with the assault weapons ban but if you're right, I oppose that.

"Neocon" has taken on a life of its own. I'd say Karachi was. Reagan Republican in national security/foreign affairs. I'm with him there.

The fracking issue was complex. He had given substantial incentives and breaks to O&Gs and basically said we're going to roll those back a bit to help balance the budget. While I disagree, it was not as if he was attacking fracking. He was ultra friendly to our business.

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the existence of the Neocons has given the isolationists the best boogeyman they've ever had to attack.

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Well at least you acknowledge that Neo-cons actually exist...that's a start

And 2nd....no one in American politics is an "isolationist"

The more correct term would be non-interventionist/foreign policy restraint enthusiast

No one has called on us to end NATO, or cancel treaties of security, or pull out from places we already are in....people have just asked for no new Sandbox wars in the middle-turd-east or proxy wars against nuclear powers.

historian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

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John McCain & Mitt Romney are RINO's. They often seem to agree with the Dems than with the GOP.

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So, if they agree with the Dems, they are RINO's and should not be elected...

Dems that agree with the GOP are DINO's and should not be elected...

You wonder why we can't get anything done?

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Dems who vote with Republicans are the sane ones. That just means they still hold on to some American values such as freedom & morality. The Dems are radical Marxists with an agenda that is entirely evil. Their only values are the lust for power to impose their will on everyone else.

There are not many Dems in Congress who will vote with the GOP. How many votes for the SAVE Act to protect our votes? None.

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You don't see an issue there...

They and a large contingent of voters may not consider themselves or their policies as not sane.

Yes, there are plenty of whackos in America who think the crazy policies of the fascists are sane. These are the same people whose #1 priority is killing babies and promote the mutilation of children (& punishing parents who try to protect their kids from the ghouls). Some are pedophiles, probably more than most of us realize. Heck, these "sane" Americans cannot define what a woman is! May God help us all!

Thankfully, I think most Americans know better. The nut cases are in the minority. Ultimately I know they will lose because I know God will win. I have to believe that they will lose in the short run too.

Here's the exact quote: "There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking, so yes. And starting -- and starting with what we can do on day one around public lands, right? And then there has to be legislation... I have a history of working on this issue." https://t.co/Lu5Bpr75Gu

— Joe Concha (@JoeConchaTV) October 3, 2024

How can anyone believe anything she says? She lies as much as Joe, Barack, or Hillary!

historian said:

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Yes, there are plenty of whackos in America who think the crazy policies of the fascists are sane. These are the same people whose #1 priority is killing babies and promote the mutilation of children (& punishing parents who try to protect their kids from the ghouls). Some are pedophiles, probably more than most of us realize. Heck, these "sane" Americans cannot define what a woman is! May God help us all!

Thankfully, I think most Americans know better. The nut cases are in the minority. Ultimately I know they will lose because I know God will win. I have to believe that they will lose in the short run too.

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My point is either your push your sane way by force or there has to be some move to a compromise. Or, we have the hell we have right now in dead-lock and nothing is getting done well. Breaking the positions into sane and insane is a bit inflammatory and will not help move anything forward. If you like deadlock, I guess it works.

Deadlock is a slippery slope. Deadlock with Reagan's or GHW Bush's policies, ok. Deadlock with Biden/Harris? Disaster. In a deadlock whoever is in power holds the keys to the kingdom (just a phrase, I do not view it as a king or kingdom)