Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

"I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?"

There is no proof. There is no proof that your spouse will not stab you tonight in your sleep.

There is a ton of evidence your spouse loves you and wishes you no harm. Proof? No

As for God, look at the gospels. Are they reliable? I think the evidence says yes. If the evidence for the gospels being trustworthy is good then Christ is who He says He is and His resurrection is true. The gospels indicate that Christ spoke of God's word (the Old Testament) being true.

Reliable gospels = Reliable Christ = Reliable Old Testament = Reliable Creator God

In addition to reading the gospels, I suggest reading Cold Case Christianity and The Case For Christ.

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

I don't think you can prove the existence of God. You can only make belief in it plausible.

The universal moral standard argument by CS Lewis is pretty good. I also like his argument that our need/want for a creator and relationship with the creator is some evidence for the existence of one. A longstanding, widespread desire for something implies the existence of the thing that fulfills it. Hunger implies food. Tiredness implies sleep. Etc. We are looking for something that, based on our hunger, reasonably should exist. Otherwise, why is the hunger there? Some of the intelligent design arguments, though they fall short of proof, add to plausibility. A thousand monkeys typing into forever might never type Shakespeare. They might just type a whole lot of gibberish.

None of this gets you to proof. But I think you can cobble together enough arguments to make belief plausible.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

Golem said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

---

The law of conservation of energy. It states that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed. Although, it may be transformed from one form to another. Regardless, the total energy of the system is conserved.

The Big Bang Theory postulates a massive explosion of energy at the beginning of what is for us, time. This began, as the theory goes, as an initial singularity thought to have contained all the energy and spacetime of the Universe.

A. Given the law of conservation of energy stating that fact that energy can never be created or destroyed;

B. Given that energy sufficient to create the universe was created and placed into our closed system (the universe);

C. Given A contradicts B if one supposed it happened within the system naturally, something or someone acting outside of time/space must have created the energy in the initial singularity. There can be no creation ex nihilo in physics.

That's my evidence of God or an entity so powerful we call Him God. Nothing comes from nothing. There's no bang without the initial singularity. That singularity could only come from outside space/time.

(Multiverse assumptions are just a cop out for people who don't want to admit the above and lean on their versions of religion to explain away the otherwise unexplainable)

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Coke Bear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

A scientific/axiomatic take:

Modern physics is finding that spacetime isn't fundamental. Last year a Nobel was won for proving that universe isn't locally real.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]We've also found objects outside of spacetime that project down to spacetime such as the amplituhedron, cosmological polytopes along with decorated permutations. Planck scale is too shallow to have operational meaning beyond it. The universe is absolutely not just physicalism, it's a projection of something. Spacetime is doomed, it's not fundamental reality.

What some physicists and theorists propose is that the substrate of reality is consciousness. That consciousness is what's projecting spacetime (our reality) and it's using spacetime as a tool to understand itself. Donald Hoffman is attempting to piece this together. This is not the same thing as human brain consciousness, which we've been unable to prove.

Watch:


An individual with the current highest IQ of 195, Chris Langan, uses the axiomatic method in his CTMU theory to explain how fundamental reality is Syntax/logic that self creates consciousness and that consciousness projects spacetime.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]It very well may be that God is ultimate consciousness and we are individual conscious agents of God/Monad. We are made in his image.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

"I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?"

There is no proof. There is no proof that your spouse will not stab you tonight in your sleep.

There is a ton of evidence your spouse loves you and wishes you no harm. Proof? No

As for God, look at the gospels. Are they reliable? I think the evidence says yes. If the evidence for the gospels being trustworthy is good then Christ is who He says He is and His resurrection is true. The gospels indicate that Christ spoke of God's word (the Old Testament) being true.

Reliable gospels = Reliable Christ = Reliable Old Testament = Reliable Creator God

In addition to reading the gospels, I suggest reading Cold Case Christianity and The Case For Christ.

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

"I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?"

There is no proof. There is no proof that your spouse will not stab you tonight in your sleep.

There is a ton of evidence your spouse loves you and wishes you no harm. Proof? No

As for God, look at the gospels. Are they reliable? I think the evidence says yes. If the evidence for the gospels being trustworthy is good then Christ is who He says He is and His resurrection is true. The gospels indicate that Christ spoke of God's word (the Old Testament) being true.

Reliable gospels = Reliable Christ = Reliable Old Testament = Reliable Creator God

In addition to reading the gospels, I suggest reading Cold Case Christianity and The Case For Christ.

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

Do you have a reasonable alternative and if so, is there evidence that supports the alternative?

If you are looking for proof, you'll never find it. If your looking for an excuse, you'll always have it. I hope you don't think I'm being harsh but that is the way it is.

---

• The gospels and Pauline letters were greatly influenced by Greco-Roman culture & mythology (my personal best guess)

• The early Christian Church knowingly re-wrote 1st Century history (great read on this by Lena Einhorn)
• Jesus' story was originally just that - a story - but latter misinterpreted and mythologized
• Hallucination Theory (I don't buy this one)

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

I'm sure that EVERY person will eventually believe at the end. Even Satan and his angels believe. So I don't think that God has every created anything, man or angel, that can never believe.

---

Golem said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

Faith is a choice, not a feeling. For all the 'God of the gaps' aspersions cast by the weak minded, acknowledging that a conscious mind is the solution Occam's Razor mandates is difficult but brave. It requires suppression of pride and welcomes a purpose that you may not control.

I have thousands of questions and, admittedly, lack understanding in many of the more esoteric aspects of Christianity, but I choose faith. I welcome the purpose. I welcome the guidance. I also welcome the peace.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Golem said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

Faith is a choice, not a feeling. For all the 'God of the gaps' aspersions cast by the weak minded, acknowledging that a conscious mind is the solution Occam's Razor mandates is difficult but brave. It requires suppression of pride and welcomes a purpose that you may not control.

I have thousands of questions and, admittedly, lack understanding in many of the more esoteric aspects of Christianity, but I choose faith. I welcome the purpose. I welcome the guidance. I also welcome the peace.

---

Just because someone does not have the same spiritual view as you does not make them weak-minded.

I am happy you have found peace and guidance though in your beliefs.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

---

To be honest there really wasn't any one piece of evidence that I found compelling, but I did find it incredibly interesting that the resurrection's first witnesses were female (counter culture of patriarchal prowess of the ancient world). This was not something that I connected the dots on during my normal reading of the Gospels.

I think it is more probable than not that a Jesus figure existed in Judea, but I am not very confident in that assertion. The Mythicists have some compelling arguments, and unfortunately so much has been lost to time.

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

---

To be honest there really wasn't any one piece of evidence that I found compelling, but I did find it incredibly interesting that the resurrection's first witnesses were female (counter culture of patriarchal prowess of the ancient world). This was not something that I connected the dots on during my normal reading of the Gospels.

I think it is more probable than not that a Jesus figure existed in Judea, but I am not very confident in that assertion. The Mythicists have some compelling arguments, and unfortunately so much has been lost to time.

---

I think your second paragraph speaks volumes. Any serious historian that has looked into Jesus has concluded He was a historical being. It matters not if the historian is Christian, Jew or agnostic or atheist. There is ample evidence to support the life and crucifixion of Jesus.

As I said before, if a person wants to find excuses, that's what they'll find.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

---

I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

---

To be honest there really wasn't any one piece of evidence that I found compelling, but I did find it incredibly interesting that the resurrection's first witnesses were female (counter culture of patriarchal prowess of the ancient world). This was not something that I connected the dots on during my normal reading of the Gospels.

I think it is more probable than not that a Jesus figure existed in Judea, but I am not very confident in that assertion. The Mythicists have some compelling arguments, and unfortunately so much has been lost to time.

---

I think your second paragraph speaks volumes. Any serious historian that has looked into Jesus has concluded He was a historical being. It matters not if the historian is Christian, Jew or agnostic or atheist. There is ample evidence to support the life and crucifixion of Jesus.

As I said before, if a person wants to find excuses, that's what they'll find.

---

Could you please provide the ample evidence of the life and crucifixion of Jesus?

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

quash said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

---

Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

---

God of the gaps argument.

---

Not that simple. Not an argument that the unknown = God.

But rather the honest admission that the unknown can = the possibility of an explanation exceeding the parameters of currently accepted science or the ability of mankind to understand.

My largest problem with evolutionary scientists is the same that I have with an "expert" in any field…….the absolute steadfast unwillingness to admit "I don't know, I might never know, the correct explanation might conflict with my existing beliefs, the correct explanation might be beyond my ability to understand, therefor my beliefs based on incomplete data and/or science are not more valid than beliefs based on something else".

It generally offends the scientific community, but I admittedly believe that useful wisdom begins with acceptance of our limitation to understand large parts of our reality.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Bear51 said:

---

Listen, if there ever was a point in time when there was absolutely nothing including God then what would there be right now? NOTHING!!
There HAS to be an eternal cause, there has to be! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
There is a God and He has spoken through His Word that continues to withstand the test of time!

---

Thank you for sharing.

There are a lot of bad arguments for God, but the contingency argument (similar to what you are explaining here) is in my opinion the current best philosophical argument for God.

It doesn't lead me to conclude that there is a God, but it does raise the most questions.

---

Let's look at this the other way around: what would you consider to be unquestionable proof of God? Or at least lead you to conclude God does exist?

---

I have absolutely no idea - but if there is an omniscient and all-powerful God, this God would know exactly what it would take to convince me

---

An omniscient, all-powerful God may know that nothing will convince you, too, right?

---

Correct! Although, that raises questions about a God who would knowingly create a human who would never be able to be convinced of his existence.

---

I'm sure that EVERY person will eventually believe at the end. Even Satan and his angels believe. So I don't think that God has every created anything, man or angel, that can never believe.

---

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

---

quash said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

quash said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

---

Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

---

God of the gaps argument.

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Not that simple. Not an argument that the unknown = God.

But rather the honest admission that the unknown can = the possibility of an explanation exceeding the parameters of currently accepted science or the ability of mankind to understand.

My largest problem with evolutionary scientists is the same that I have with an "expert" in any field…….the absolute steadfast unwillingness to admit "I don't know, I might never know, the correct explanation might conflict with my existing beliefs, the correct explanation might be beyond my ability to understand, therefor my beliefs based on incomplete data and/or science are not more valid than beliefs based on something else".

It generally offends the scientific community, but I admittedly believe that useful wisdom begins with acceptance of our limitation to understand large parts of our reality.

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Slandering science doesn't provide an actual argument against science.

And you are still firmly in the god of the gaps argument.

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BaylorJacket said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Coke Bear said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

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I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

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To be honest there really wasn't any one piece of evidence that I found compelling, but I did find it incredibly interesting that the resurrection's first witnesses were female (counter culture of patriarchal prowess of the ancient world). This was not something that I connected the dots on during my normal reading of the Gospels.

I think it is more probable than not that a Jesus figure existed in Judea, but I am not very confident in that assertion. The Mythicists have some compelling arguments, and unfortunately so much has been lost to time.

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I think your second paragraph speaks volumes. Any serious historian that has looked into Jesus has concluded He was a historical being. It matters not if the historian is Christian, Jew or agnostic or atheist. There is ample evidence to support the life and crucifixion of Jesus.

As I said before, if a person wants to find excuses, that's what they'll find.

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Could you please provide the ample evidence of the life and crucifixion of Jesus?

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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I don't think any serious person doubt the historical Jesus.

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Coke Bear said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I fortunately had the time last year to read The Case for Christ, Cold Case Christianity, and the Case for the Resurrection, but was not convinced by any of the evidence presented.

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I certainly appreciate your honest effort to answer these questions inside of you.

What was the best evidence that you thought any of Christ or Resurrection did you find most compelling, but ultimately couldn't completely "scratch your itch"?

Lastly, just as a point of reference, do you believe Jesus the rabbi, existed?

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To be honest there really wasn't any one piece of evidence that I found compelling, but I did find it incredibly interesting that the resurrection's first witnesses were female (counter culture of patriarchal prowess of the ancient world). This was not something that I connected the dots on during my normal reading of the Gospels.

I think it is more probable than not that a Jesus figure existed in Judea, but I am not very confident in that assertion. The Mythicists have some compelling arguments, and unfortunately so much has been lost to time.

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I think your second paragraph speaks volumes. Any serious historian that has looked into Jesus has concluded He was a historical being. It matters not if the historian is Christian, Jew or agnostic or atheist. There is ample evidence to support the life and crucifixion of Jesus.

As I said before, if a person wants to find excuses, that's what they'll find.

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Could you please provide the ample evidence of the life and crucifixion of Jesus?

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Do you eliminate the bible as a historical document? Paul wrote some of his letters within a decade of Jesus' death and resurrection, and he affirms that Jesus did exist, and that he was crucified, and that he rose again. Paul stayed with and spoke to the disciple Peter for 15 days, so he had close contact with a firsthand eyewitness. Paul was an enemy of Christianity and heavily persecuted Christians before he converted.

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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I don't think any serious person doubt the historical Jesus.

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Those looking for excuses do.

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BaylorJacket said:

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I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

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