Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

Thanks for the answer.

Probably not going to find common ground on this, since we have very different political and moral beliefs. I think it would be difficult for any Christian, or anyone who valued traditional Judeo-Christian values, to pull the trigger for any Dem given the current state of the party. Biden's positions are decidedly not Christian, unfortunately. That's not to say I am any better than him, or don't have my own struggles. I appreciate that he's a family man. But from a policy standpoint, no, he isn't Christian.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Since this thread seems to cover more than Trump...

Can someone name a presidential candidate running in the general presidential election the last two cycles (not primaries) that provided integrity and honor?

What party did that candidate represent, or were they independent?

What shows the candidate to be one of integrity and honor?

---

Hmmmm....

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud. Like his businesses, the Republican Party which I used to respect will be burned down.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

A guy from the Northeast who never worked a day outside of politics represents "midwestern working class values"? I'd disagree, but a stretch would be industrial Union/factory worker values perhaps. Not this label though.

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

Thanks for the answer.

Probably not going to find common ground on this, since we have very different political and moral beliefs. I think it would be difficult for any Christian, or anyone who valued traditional Judeo-Christian values, to pull the trigger for any Dem given the current state of the party. Biden's positions are decidedly not Christian, unfortunately. That's not to say I am any better than him, or don't have my own struggles. I appreciate that he's a family man. But from a policy standpoint, no, he isn't Christian.

---

We don't have to agree. I always appreciate your civility.

ATL Bear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud. Like his businesses, the Republican Party which I used to respect will be burned down.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

A guy from the Northeast who never worked a day outside of politics represents "midwestern working class values"? I'd disagree, but a stretch would be industrial Union/factory worker values perhaps. Not this label though.

---

Rural Pennsylvania (Scranton is rural to me) is a world away from NY City.

Waco is the smallest town I've live in.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Here we go again.

Mitch, FYI, Mothra can tell whether you are a Christian by your vote in a political contest.

---

Anyone who is a Christian knows that you can know a Christian by fruits and works. It's pretty basic theology. So yes, how one votes may be an indicator of where one stands in their faith, but it's certainly not determinative, nor have I ever suggested it was.

Regardless, my reason for asking those questions of Mitch had nothing to do with the above.

---

Theologically shabby and illogical.

This is the Fruit of the Spirit, not your party affiliation
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

---

You are again not only mischaracterizing my position, but also taking a position contrary to basic Christian theology.

The idea that our decisions don't demonstrate the works that proceed from faith in Christ is contrary to scripture. Our decisions identify who our identity is in. When we support things that are contrary to our purported faith, that is evidence of our faith, or lack thereof.

Again, these are very basic theological points. It's a bit shocking that a purported Christian would argue against them. Your idea that someone can believe or do what they want and still be Christian demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of the faith, and borders on Gnosticism.

---

I'm saying your characterization of voting patterns is presumptuous. You aren't God.
You say that voting for a certain political party is a work that indicates one is probably not a Christian. That is simply wrong.
I wish you would speak to your pastor and ask him.

Mothra said:

---

BTW, ever voted Dem, like your friend Oso?

---

You told us that you have voted for Democrats.

Your Christianity is suspect!

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

It's always amusing when the Never Trumpers try to pretend like their protest vote indicates anything other than a preference for Biden over Trump. NT's are a hoot.

---

Candidates have to earn my vote.
Trump and Biden haven't.

---

Not sure of the relevance of that statement to my comments, but thanks for letting me know!

---

My refusal to vote for Trump is not a preference for Biden any more than my refusal to vote for Biden is a preference for Trump.

---

Couldn't disagree more.

---

I refused to vote for Biden long before I refused to vote for Trump. Doesn't mean I have a preference for Trump.

---

So your position is that as a "conservative," it doesn't matter who is president as between the two of them?

---

I'm reluctant to jump into this debate b/c we'll never change others' minds. Views on Trump are too entrenched.

But . . . Mothra, I don't think it is as simple as binary choice and no-vote-helps Dems-so-have-to-vote Trump. My position has evolved. I despised Trump from the beginning. After the MSNBC tapes, I said I'd never vote for him. But I did . . . twice. It came down to what you now argue: If I didn't vote for Trump, I was giving up on issues I cared about for at least 4 years.

Now I can honestly say I will not vote for Trump under any circumstance. My view now is that there has to be a minimum threshold for candidate character. It's an exceedingly low threshold, but there is one. To me, Trump fails to meet it. Jan 6, the "rigged election" BS, and his bizarre attacks on longtime conservatives put me over the top.

As for the issues I care about, I think Trump will do more damage on those issues long term. He has tainted the GOP for the foreseeable future. If he's elected again, it might be irreversible. I am willing to take some near-term pain to avoid a long-term illness. Much of it has been unfair, much of it not, but Trump has damaged our Country and the conservative movement.

It pains me to say it, it really does, but the Never Trumpers were right. I'm not talking about the Never Trumpers who are no longer conservatives or who have "changed their minds" on core issues because . . . Trump.

---

I might be where you are by November 2023. That was an absolute **** show - by even Trump standards. So I appreciate your reasoning, and agree with 99% of it.

---

I assume you mean November 2024. So it is possible that you might betray your most deeply held beliefs, cease to be a conservative, and cast a de facto vote for Biden. You just haven't fully made up your mind yet?

---

Is that what you believe I said? LOL. You are a hoot as always.

---

So what will you do if and when you come around to sombear's point of view?

---

Don't know. But I do know I would never vote for Biden.

---

Me neither

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Here we go again.

Mitch, FYI, Mothra can tell whether you are a Christian by your vote in a political contest.

---

Anyone who is a Christian knows that you can know a Christian by fruits and works. It's pretty basic theology. So yes, how one votes may be an indicator of where one stands in their faith, but it's certainly not determinative, nor have I ever suggested it was.

Regardless, my reason for asking those questions of Mitch had nothing to do with the above.

---

Theologically shabby and illogical.

This is the Fruit of the Spirit, not your party affiliation
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

---

You are again not only mischaracterizing my position, but also taking a position contrary to basic Christian theology.

The idea that our decisions don't demonstrate the works that proceed from faith in Christ is contrary to scripture. Our decisions identify who our identity is in. When we support things that are contrary to our purported faith, that is evidence of our faith, or lack thereof.

Again, these are very basic theological points. It's a bit shocking that a purported Christian would argue against them. Your idea that someone can believe or do what they want and still be Christian demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of the faith, and borders on Gnosticism.

---

I'm saying your characterization of voting patterns is presumptuous. You aren't God.
You say that voting for a certain political party is a work that indicates one is probably not a Christian. That is simply wrong.
I wish you would speak to your pastor and ask him.

---

You need to read my comments again. That's not at all what I said. You either continue to misunderstand or mischaracterize.

I said one's choices, including who they vote for, may indicate where they are in their faith. This is elementary and indisputable. I've already cited the scripture for you. Perhaps you need to get in the Word.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

It's always amusing when the Never Trumpers try to pretend like their protest vote indicates anything other than a preference for Biden over Trump. NT's are a hoot.

---

Candidates have to earn my vote.
Trump and Biden haven't.

---

Not sure of the relevance of that statement to my comments, but thanks for letting me know!

---

My refusal to vote for Trump is not a preference for Biden any more than my refusal to vote for Biden is a preference for Trump.

---

Couldn't disagree more.

---

I refused to vote for Biden long before I refused to vote for Trump. Doesn't mean I have a preference for Trump.

---

So your position is that as a "conservative," it doesn't matter who is president as between the two of them?

---

I'm reluctant to jump into this debate b/c we'll never change others' minds. Views on Trump are too entrenched.

But . . . Mothra, I don't think it is as simple as binary choice and no-vote-helps Dems-so-have-to-vote Trump. My position has evolved. I despised Trump from the beginning. After the MSNBC tapes, I said I'd never vote for him. But I did . . . twice. It came down to what you now argue: If I didn't vote for Trump, I was giving up on issues I cared about for at least 4 years.

Now I can honestly say I will not vote for Trump under any circumstance. My view now is that there has to be a minimum threshold for candidate character. It's an exceedingly low threshold, but there is one. To me, Trump fails to meet it. Jan 6, the "rigged election" BS, and his bizarre attacks on longtime conservatives put me over the top.

As for the issues I care about, I think Trump will do more damage on those issues long term. He has tainted the GOP for the foreseeable future. If he's elected again, it might be irreversible. I am willing to take some near-term pain to avoid a long-term illness. Much of it has been unfair, much of it not, but Trump has damaged our Country and the conservative movement.

It pains me to say it, it really does, but the Never Trumpers were right. I'm not talking about the Never Trumpers who are no longer conservatives or who have "changed their minds" on core issues because . . . Trump.

---

I might be where you are by November 2023. That was an absolute **** show - by even Trump standards. So I appreciate your reasoning, and agree with 99% of it.

---

I assume you mean November 2024. So it is possible that you might betray your most deeply held beliefs, cease to be a conservative, and cast a de facto vote for Biden. You just haven't fully made up your mind yet?

---

Is that what you believe I said? LOL. You are a hoot as always.

---

So what will you do if and when you come around to sombear's point of view?

---

Don't know. But I do know I would never vote for Biden.

---

Me neither

---

Why not? You have no problem voting for wokesters who support abortion on demand, legalization of drugs, and trans rights. Why stop at Biden?

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BTW, ever voted Dem, like your friend Oso?

---

You told us that you have voted for Democrats.

Your Christianity is suspect!

---

In local elections years ago.

Tell us, did you know Rochelle Garza's positions at the time you voted for her in 2022?

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud. Like his businesses, the Republican Party which I used to respect will be burned down.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

The man is a habitual lying cheat who, back when integrity in politics mattered, was laughed out of the presidential race because of his lack thereof. Not sure how that reflects "midwestern working class values."

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

It's always amusing when the Never Trumpers try to pretend like their protest vote indicates anything other than a preference for Biden over Trump. NT's are a hoot.

---

Candidates have to earn my vote.
Trump and Biden haven't.

---

Not sure of the relevance of that statement to my comments, but thanks for letting me know!

---

My refusal to vote for Trump is not a preference for Biden any more than my refusal to vote for Biden is a preference for Trump.

---

Couldn't disagree more.

---

I refused to vote for Biden long before I refused to vote for Trump. Doesn't mean I have a preference for Trump.

---

So your position is that as a "conservative," it doesn't matter who is president as between the two of them?

---

I'm reluctant to jump into this debate b/c we'll never change others' minds. Views on Trump are too entrenched.

But . . . Mothra, I don't think it is as simple as binary choice and no-vote-helps Dems-so-have-to-vote Trump. My position has evolved. I despised Trump from the beginning. After the MSNBC tapes, I said I'd never vote for him. But I did . . . twice. It came down to what you now argue: If I didn't vote for Trump, I was giving up on issues I cared about for at least 4 years.

Now I can honestly say I will not vote for Trump under any circumstance. My view now is that there has to be a minimum threshold for candidate character. It's an exceedingly low threshold, but there is one. To me, Trump fails to meet it. Jan 6, the "rigged election" BS, and his bizarre attacks on longtime conservatives put me over the top.

As for the issues I care about, I think Trump will do more damage on those issues long term. He has tainted the GOP for the foreseeable future. If he's elected again, it might be irreversible. I am willing to take some near-term pain to avoid a long-term illness. Much of it has been unfair, much of it not, but Trump has damaged our Country and the conservative movement.

It pains me to say it, it really does, but the Never Trumpers were right. I'm not talking about the Never Trumpers who are no longer conservatives or who have "changed their minds" on core issues because . . . Trump.

---

I might be where you are by November 2023. That was an absolute **** show - by even Trump standards. So I appreciate your reasoning, and agree with 99% of it.

---

I assume you mean November 2024. So it is possible that you might betray your most deeply held beliefs, cease to be a conservative, and cast a de facto vote for Biden. You just haven't fully made up your mind yet?

---

Is that what you believe I said? LOL. You are a hoot as always.

---

So what will you do if and when you come around to sombear's point of view?

---

Don't know. But I do know I would never vote for Biden.

---

But if you don't vote for Trump, that is a de facto vote for Biden. At least that's what you've told us.

---

With respect to 2020, correct. Any protest vote was a vote for Biden. We will see what 2024 brings. As I said above, I am still in the camp that we should vote for the Republican nominee given the last 2 years of complete and total disaster.

---

Sorry, what? A protest vote was a vote for Biden in 2020 but maybe not in 2024?

Mothra said:

---

BTW, ever voted Dem, like your friend Oso?

---

No, unless it was for some low-level office years ago, like you.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

It's always amusing when the Never Trumpers try to pretend like their protest vote indicates anything other than a preference for Biden over Trump. NT's are a hoot.

---

Candidates have to earn my vote.
Trump and Biden haven't.

---

Not sure of the relevance of that statement to my comments, but thanks for letting me know!

---

My refusal to vote for Trump is not a preference for Biden any more than my refusal to vote for Biden is a preference for Trump.

---

Couldn't disagree more.

---

I refused to vote for Biden long before I refused to vote for Trump. Doesn't mean I have a preference for Trump.

---

So your position is that as a "conservative," it doesn't matter who is president as between the two of them?

---

I'm reluctant to jump into this debate b/c we'll never change others' minds. Views on Trump are too entrenched.

But . . . Mothra, I don't think it is as simple as binary choice and no-vote-helps Dems-so-have-to-vote Trump. My position has evolved. I despised Trump from the beginning. After the MSNBC tapes, I said I'd never vote for him. But I did . . . twice. It came down to what you now argue: If I didn't vote for Trump, I was giving up on issues I cared about for at least 4 years.

Now I can honestly say I will not vote for Trump under any circumstance. My view now is that there has to be a minimum threshold for candidate character. It's an exceedingly low threshold, but there is one. To me, Trump fails to meet it. Jan 6, the "rigged election" BS, and his bizarre attacks on longtime conservatives put me over the top.

As for the issues I care about, I think Trump will do more damage on those issues long term. He has tainted the GOP for the foreseeable future. If he's elected again, it might be irreversible. I am willing to take some near-term pain to avoid a long-term illness. Much of it has been unfair, much of it not, but Trump has damaged our Country and the conservative movement.

It pains me to say it, it really does, but the Never Trumpers were right. I'm not talking about the Never Trumpers who are no longer conservatives or who have "changed their minds" on core issues because . . . Trump.

---

I might be where you are by November 2023. That was an absolute **** show - by even Trump standards. So I appreciate your reasoning, and agree with 99% of it.

---

I assume you mean November 2024. So it is possible that you might betray your most deeply held beliefs, cease to be a conservative, and cast a de facto vote for Biden. You just haven't fully made up your mind yet?

---

Is that what you believe I said? LOL. You are a hoot as always.

---

So what will you do if and when you come around to sombear's point of view?

---

Don't know. But I do know I would never vote for Biden.

---

But if you don't vote for Trump, that is a de facto vote for Biden. At least that's what you've told us.

---

With respect to 2020, correct. Any protest vote was a vote for Biden. We will see what 2024 brings. As I said above, I am still in the camp that we should vote for the Republican nominee given the last 2 years of complete and total disaster.

---

Sorry, what? A protest vote was a vote for Biden in 2020 but maybe not in 2024?

---

I said we will see. Can't predict what Trump will do by 2024 that might render himself unfit for office.

In his mind its a mothra world. Others just live in it.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

---

Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud. Like his businesses, the Republican Party which I used to respect will be burned down.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

---

A guy from the Northeast who never worked a day outside of politics represents "midwestern working class values"? I'd disagree, but a stretch would be industrial Union/factory worker values perhaps. Not this label though.

---

Rural Pennsylvania (Scranton is rural to me) is a world away from NY City.

Waco is the smallest town I've live in.

---

Biden was 11 when his family left Scranton for Delaware. This political working class myth is just that.

ATL Bear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Trump is willing to burn down everything to get his way. I'm most surprised that Evangelicals fell for this okie doke.

As a none Evangelical, it appears to me that Christian values are just are not closely healed. They're just talking points.

I never thought I'd see a day where the family, American values Christians would line up behind a guy who cheats on all his wives including with a porn actress (I don't know that she's a star) - and justify it.

To me, it's sad because those values DO matter. Not just when it suits my politics.

---

A few questions:

1) Do you consider yourself a Christian?
2) Who did you vote for?
3) Do you think a vote for Biden is lining up with Christian values?

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Not anymore. Evangelicals ran me out of the tribe.
Biden, Obama, Clinton,

In all those votes, Trump was the person I would never vote for. I like Romney (worked with him) Love W. GREAT GUY.

Trump is and always will be a fraud. Like his businesses, the Republican Party which I used to respect will be burned down.

Biden lines up with my values. You decide if it's Christian. He's a family man. Loves his son through his sins.

He represents midwestern working class values.

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A guy from the Northeast who never worked a day outside of politics represents "midwestern working class values"? I'd disagree, but a stretch would be industrial Union/factory worker values perhaps. Not this label though.

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Rural Pennsylvania (Scranton is rural to me) is a world away from NY City.

Waco is the smallest town I've live in.

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Biden was 11 when his family left Scranton for Delaware. This political working class myth is just that.

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Yes, and a while back he was asked his favorites placed to go when he visits, and two he mentioned had been closed since the 70s! Kind of like Gore's favorite childhood memory was his mother rocking him to sleep to the union label song . . . except that song wasn't written until he was an adult . . . .

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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BTW, ever voted Dem, like your friend Oso?

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You told us that you have voted for Democrats.

Your Christianity is suspect!

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In local elections years ago.

Tell us, did you know Rochelle Garza's positions at the time you voted for her in 2022?

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We both sin

Did I miss something? Was Trump heard singing "I'm A Good Old Rebel" in the shower?

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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BTW, ever voted Dem, like your friend Oso?

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You told us that you have voted for Democrats.

Your Christianity is suspect!

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In local elections years ago.

Tell us, did you know Rochelle Garza's positions at the time you voted for her in 2022?

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No, I just couldn't vote for a dishonest person. Did it bother you to vote for a crook?

I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

Unfortunately you will not be with Wanger or mothra after you pass.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

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Yep

Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

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You are out of your f-ing mind if you believe a single democrat believes anything you wrote.

Democrats do not favor feeding the poor; they favor giving kickbacks to their donors who claim to represent the poor. Poor people are merely their slaves, forever trapped in their democrat run plantations.

Welcoming strangers? Please. Did you not see how fast those strangers were lassoed in Martha's Vineyard and shipped off? "Strangers" to democrats are mere political chattel.

Gospel of Matthew? To present Jesus as a teacher even greater than Moses? Name one democrat position that does this. Homo? Loppers? Baby killers? Enslavement of millions of Americans?

Get a clue dude.

GrowlTowel said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

You are out of your f-ing mind if you believe a single democrat believes anything you wrote.

Democrats do not favor feeding the poor; they favor giving kickbacks to their donors who claim to represent the poor. Poor people are merely their slaves, forever trapped in their democrat run plantations.

Welcoming strangers? Please. Did you not see how fast those strangers were lassoed in Martha's Vineyard and shipped off? "Strangers" to democrats are mere political chattel.

Gospel of Matthew? To present Jesus as a teacher even greater than Moses? Name one democrat position that does this. Homo? Loppers? Baby killers? Enslavement of millions of Americans?

Get a clue dude.

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Shame you don't know you fellow statesmen. You should get out and wet some of them. Don't be scared. We don't bite.

D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

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So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

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So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

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A question like that suggests to me that you slept through Religion classes ...

Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

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So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

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There was nothing at all about Republicans in my post.

Oldbear83 said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

---

So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

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A question like that suggests to me that you slept through Religion classes ...

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Legit question. As I stated earlier, the Bible doesn't care about American politics. Yet, conservatives act as if they are voting as Jesus would.

D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

---

So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

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There was nothing at all about Republicans in my post.

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That's not true. You make a reference to political parties.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

---

So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

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There was nothing at all about Republicans in my post.

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That's not true. You make a reference to political parties.

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Of course it's true. I made a reference to "a" political party, not to "political parties." Have you mistaken someone else's post for mine?

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

---

So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

---

A question like that suggests to me that you slept through Religion classes ...

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Legit question. As I stated earlier, the Bible doesn't care about American politics. Yet, conservatives act as if they are voting as Jesus would.

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That's just not true.

Conservatives, by definition, hold to traditional American values. As in, what would Washington and Monroe support?

I think you get confused by

A) the charlatans who sell themselves as holy-as-Jesus rather than actual policies and qualifications, and

B) those on both the Left and Right who treat the next election as a Crusade against Evil ('Evil' incarnate always being their political opponent)

Now, Abortion is murder of a human fetus, not 'reproductive medicine' or whatever excuse their supporters want to use. That doesn't mean someone can't support Abortion as a legal right if they see it that way, but let's not pretend it's not deliberate killing of a human organism.

But going back to traditional American values, the US was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and again pretending anything else (1619, anyone?) is intellectually dishonest. And for some reason, a lot of people don't want an open debate on what that should mean.

That is, someone who supports Open Borders could make a case that Biblically, a lot of God's People entered other countries from Abraham through Moses all the way to the missionaries. Someone who supports Abortion could show occasions in the Bible where children died. For whatever reason, the Progressives long ago abandoned Christianity as a political tool.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. There's nothing in the Bible that knows or recognize American Political Parties.

In places where the Bible describes expected Christian Behavior, (Feeding the poor, Welcoming strangers into your country, Gospel of Matthew) Democrat policies than are more aligned biblically than Republican policies).

Republican ideology is more aligned with the Old Testament (Judaism) than Christianity.

Regardless, Bible don't care about D or R.

---

Since we're sharing secrets, I will let you in on one. When a political party sponsors killing unborn human offspring a litmus test for morality, claims to being aligned with "expected Christian behavior" do tend to ring a little hollow.

---

So, you believe when Jesus returns, he'll vote Republican?

---

A question like that suggests to me that you slept through Religion classes ...

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Legit question. As I stated earlier, the Bible doesn't care about American politics. Yet, conservatives act as if they are voting as Jesus would.

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Respectfully, God cares about our every thought and action.

Neither side has the market cornered on God's will, but only one party subscribes to positions that are diametrically opposed to his will.

Have you ever asked yourself why so few of your party claim to be Christian? There's a reason.