How To Get To Heaven When You Die

264,419 Views | 3190 Replies | Last: 13 hrs ago by xfrodobagginsx
BUDOS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dude, I realize that I may be spitting against the wind; however, I am only trying to make the point that there may be some participating in this discussion who might be more apt to reflect upon your responses and their validity if you were not so often inclined to be in assassin mode.

IMO, you often make good points substantiated by good reasoning, including a few I don't fully agree with at this time. IMO, Jesus saved such a tone only when addressing the Pharisees, Scribe and Sadducees, and deservedly so.

Some on this thread apparently would classify you as a bit too self righteous. To those I would caution a few of them to look in a mirror, as indicated below:

Those who condemn the self-righteous for the sake of self-discovery do so with ironic self-righteousness."
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There is a sharp divide between Roman Catholics and Protestants over how Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, should be treated. There are some who believe Mary is a very important person, almost comparable to her Son our Redeemer, while others worry that such an opinion makes too much of Mary, even to the point of Idolatry. It's difficult to have a productive discussion on the issue, as opinions are strong and sharp.

For my part, I want to be open-minded about customs of Christian groups outside my own, but being reasonable depends on having reason to consider a position the right one. That is, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and few claims in Christian theology are as extraordinary as claiming special rank for a human, even Mary.

The first claim that needs addressing is whether Mary was 'sinless', as many Marians claim. If I understand the argument correctly, the idea is that for the Son of God to be born on this Earth, He could not be part of evil but immaculate, which is the reason why a virgin birth was needed. However, there are problems with that assumption, principally the reason Christ came to be the Messiah in the first place.

Humanity needs Salvation because even if we were to lead a perfect life, the sin of Adam and Eve, known as the Original Sin, is in us, all of us, all down the generations. Exodus Chapter 29, for example, makes clear that daily sacrifices must be made by the priests for seven days in row in order that God would speak to the nation of Israel (Ex 29:42-43). If it were possible for God to simply create a condition where someone was sinless, even if that purpose was to expedite the birth of Christ, it would prove that Christ's atonement was not needed. God could simply choose to create sinless people. Instead, it was absolutely necessary that Christ be presented as a "sacrifice of atonement" (Romans 3:25) in order for us to receive the Lord in faith.

Consequently, it is clearly not the case that Mary was sinless, as no human except for Christ Himself was so. I think Scripture gives us better guidance on Mary's condition she was not sinless but was blameless.

"Blameless" shows up many times in Scripture. It's used to describe Noah (Gen 6:9), Abraham (Gen 17:1), David (1 Sam 22:24), and Job (Job 1:1), for example. This is important to the point, because all of these men sinned at some time, yet God counted them blameless because they were reconciled to Him.

Mary is described in a manner consistent with being counted blameless. In Matthew, an angel explained to Joseph "do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 1:20). In Luke, an angel tells Mary "Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God" (Luke 1:30). You can see from both passages that Mary is someone who has pleased the Lord, but in no place is she referred to as sinless.

Now regarding Mary's station in things, consider that in the Gospel of Mark, she is not mentioned until the third chapter, and then because she sends people in to where Jesus is teaching to have him come out to her. This is where Christ says ""Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. "Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." (Mark 3:33-35)

The Gospel of John does not even mention Mary the Mother of Jesus. That's not disrespecting her, but if she was a person so important that she should be ranked alongside the Messiah, well, we would surely have seen more in Gospels about her.

I understand that tradition in the Roman Catholic Church plays a prominent role, however that does not create authority in the absence of Scripture.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
xfrodobagginsx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ:

Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ
xfrodobagginsx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sorry, it was having errors.
xfrodobagginsx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Errors

xfrodobagginsx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ

Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.