Coke Bear said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
- you're still avoiding the question. I find it strange, yet I'm not surprised, that you are so resistant to give glory to Jesus over that to the saints. See the last sentence of this post.
- if you think that from that example, that the WIFE is the one with the problem, then it explains everything about you and your beliefs. Again, see last sentence.
- if you agree with King Solomon that only God knows the heart of man, then why do you believe Mary and the saints know your heart when you pray?
- There is NO defense of those prayers. NO true Christian with the Holy Spirit would think those prayers are ok, or defend them. That includes JPII. There are no outstanding articles defending such blatant idolatry and heresy. You are stuck in a circular logic of error. It's so sad how this is so obvious but you don't see it. I'm sorry if I offend you, but in my mind it is quite clear that you are not a Christian.
You don't offend me, you just won't accept what has been taught for the last 2000 years. You prefer to ascribe to your own bias because you can't break out of your paradigm.
Irrespective, I don't believe I would ever say to a person (unless they were a professed JW or LDS) that they were not a Christian. But, in your mind, you must feel that your beliefs are the arbiter of Christianity.
* Giving glory * We Catholics give glory to Jesus EVERY day. Mass is held 364 (no mass on Good Friday) days around the world at every hour of the day. Giving respect to saints does not take away from Jesus' glory. I'm sorry that you can't fathom that. I mentioned the analogy before that no artist is upset when we appreciate the art. You just can't understand that. I feel for you.
* Wife * another failed analogy on your part. We can honor Mary without taking away from the glory of Jesus. Jesus loves when we love his mother. He's not jealous. You need to take a step back and try to look at the other side without your blinders on. Why does the full moon shine so brightly? Because the sun illuminates it.
* King Solomon * you have once again either misinterpreted or attempted to twist scripture toward your view. KS is NOT referring to knowing prayers. He's referring to God judging one's soul.
Finally, I'll repost the link to a defense of the The Glories of Mary from Catholic Answers. If you really want to understand or want to question a real apologist, I'd suggest that you call Catholic Answers Live (888-31-TRUTH) tomorrow between 5PM and 7PM (CST). Tim Staples is the guest tomorrow. He literally wrote the book on Mary called Behold Thy Mother. Full disclosure, tomorrow is the last day of their quarterly pledge drive. They can't spend a great deal of time with a "back and forth", but answer any question that you pose to him. He's a former Southern Baptist turned Assemblies of God preacher who then converted to the Church.
As a matter of fact, he's looking for individuals to dialogue (not a debate) with on his podcast. 1-on-1 w/ Time Staples. He's very charitable and wants to field your objections.
What's really sad is that you think I'M the one stuck in a paradigm, when all I've been demonstrating through history, facts, logic, and scripture is that it's you who is stuck.
Your above response illustrates that. For example, just to pick one, you're arguing that I'm twisting scripture to show King Solomon is referring to prayers. The verse explicitly states "knowing the hearts of all men". That would most certainly include prayers from the heart, wouldn't it? And you completely avoided the point - if you pray to Mary or the saints silently in your heart, then how can they know what's in your heart if God is the only one who does, according to this verse??
It doesn't matter how many masses you hold. The bottom line remains that in addition to all the things (ESPECIALLY The Glories of Mary) which is obvious "worship" of Mary and the saints to any rational, honest person outside Roman Catholicism, it's being made EVIDENT RIGHT HERE by your unwillingness to confess that it is better and more fitting to call JESUS the "seed of the church" rather than the saints. I've asked you probably three times already, and you have refused every time. Like Peter who also denied Jesus three times, you need to repent. We know them by their fruits - so what does denying glory to Jesus and giving it to the saints reveal??
You, as a Roman Catholic, believe that I, a bible believing Christian who places his faith and trust on Jesus Christ for his salvation, is
anathematized to HELL just for believing the deuterocanon should not be in Scripture, and for refusing to bow down and kiss icons -
both which are historically based in the early church, as well as scripture itself. The veneration of icons was even
universally denounced by the early church!! I would like you and others here to think really hard and long about that. Is that the gospel of Jesus Christ?? You're anathemetizing to HELL those who believe what the resounding, universal view of the early church was, and rather was a belief that originated in the 6th-7th century! If The Glories of Mary and this fact doesn't wake you up, I'm afraid nothing will.
