Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sometimes I question whether you even try to understand.

I have no problem with any of it. It's how the world works. The primary difference between you and me on this issue is that you seem to believe that when we do the same things everyone else does we are leading a coup, justifying an invasion, otherwise acting inappropriately.

And, no, Russia did not win Trump the election - not even close. But it's beyond dispute that they try to affect our elections and always have. And, yes, other countries do also, just as we try elsewhere. I've acknowledged all of this is numerous posts.

---

I think what you misunderstand is the USA is not designed to be a global police state that intervenes everywhere.

The Founding Fathers would be horrified at what we have become.

DC has also proven not to be very good at it (25 years of foreign policy failure)

Nor is it good for Ukraine, currently being destroyed right now in this conflict.


(Anyway done arguing for tonight. Off to Church to pray for peace on Earth and an end to stupid proxy wars run by horrible people in DC

O come, Desire of nations,
Bid envy, strife, and quarrels cease;
Fill the whole world with heaven's peace)

---

You really should educate yourself fully, rather than just parroting… ISW does a very good job of explaining the strategic stakes of the outcome of the war in Ukraine.

NEW: The US has a much higher stake in Russia's war on Ukraine than most people think.

As Americans consider the costs of continuing to help Ukraine fight the Russians in the coming years, they deserve a careful consideration of the costs of allowing Russia to win. 🧵(1/19) pic.twitter.com/xgV1SMcEAT

— Institute for the Study of War (@TheStudyofWar) December 14, 2023

---

Oh wow and who runs that organization?




And who is she related to? Could it be that Robert Kagan is her brother in law…







And who is he married to?







You guys are hilarious…

---

Like I said, you neither read nor understood any of the solid work posted in those Twitter threads. You'd rather live in a very narrow genetic fallacy.

.

---

And you would rather post propaganda from a bunch of ex-Trotskyite neo-cons and liberals who never met a war they did not want to see American boys fight and die in…


Let Nuland and her family of scum bag Kegans from New York can go fight their own grudges from the old country over in Eastern Europe.

I think real Americans can sit this conflict out.

---

adding a "no true Scotsman" fallacy weakens an already threadbare position.

Deal with the facts on the ground. How does letting Russia subsume 40m people and 233k square miles of resource rich territory into its polity have "no impact" on the adjacent alliance to which we have sworn to defend with nuclear exchange if necessary? How does moving Russian strategic and conventional weapons systems 600mi closer to Nato capitals (and US military bases) make the American people safer? How will such reduce the need for additional military spending?

Fact is, you have no policy. You are preemptorily defining away every extant problem with a waive of a hand...."it doesn't matter....we are wasting money to enrich the political caste...." Hint: your policy will guarantee vastly expanded risks and military expenditure, along with even greater feeding at the trough of expanded budgets. And you will lambaste it all as latent imperium, just like you are now, the only difference being that your kids and grandkids will be conducting new-era Reforger exercises in Romania and Poland to deter Russian armies in Ukraine.

---

Those are just a few of the questions we should have asked before starting an unwinnable proxy war against Russia. Too late now.

---

Boy, that's a lot of fallacies to load up into a single sentence. You got your money's worth in law school!

1) we did not start a war. Russia did.
2) no questions went unasked before we acted. All that stuff is wargamed( and budgeted) decades in advance.
3) the war in one sense has already been won. (destruction of half the Russian military for 5% of our DOD budget).
4) the war is very winnable (Russian retreat from Crimea and/or Donbas). We just have to decide to do so.

That's just for starters.

---

Yeah, let's all listen to the guy who's been wrong literally every step of the way. There are probably two people in the known universe now who still think Ukraine can win. One of them is Zelensky, and the other one is right here on our very own message board. Mark it down, folks…we're part of history.

---

It's winnable, with the right kind of support and resources. History is being written in the blood Putin has spilled of innocent civilians in Ukraine, Syria, Georgia and elsewhere. Mark it down.

quash said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

Tell us about the cookies...

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.





Looks like Kyiv is also pushing through a new mobilization law…highlights below:

[People are now fully eligible for service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are in "Disability Group III," comprising people who:

1. Are missing or blind in one eye
2. Are partially deaf
3. Have a tracheotomy
4. Have jaw defects that prevent normal chewing
5. Suffer from dwarfism (<130cm for men)
6. Have a missing or nonfunctional arm
7. Have an amputated leg up to the thigh
8. Are missing fingers
9. Are missing both feet
10. Have a pacemaker implanted
11. Have only one working kidney
12. Have only one working lung
13. Have suffered from "traumatic castration"
14. Have a brain abscess (!)
15. Have a substantial skull defect
16. Have Parkinson's (!)
17. Have extreme scoliosis
18. Have severe chest deformities
19. Have "severe adrenal insufficiency" (it's a war eh?)
20. Have no bladder.

It also apparently drops the official conscription age from 27 to 25, but I doubt that's been taken adhered to at any point in the war and particularly not in the last year.]

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.





Looks like Kyiv is also pushing through a new mobilization law…highlights below:

[People are now fully eligible for service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are in "Disability Group III," comprising people who:

1. Are missing or blind in one eye
2. Are partially deaf
3. Have a tracheotomy
4. Have jaw defects that prevent normal chewing
5. Suffer from dwarfism (<130cm for men)
6. Have a missing or nonfunctional arm
7. Have an amputated leg up to the thigh
8. Are missing fingers
9. Are missing both feet
10. Have a pacemaker implanted
11. Have only one working kidney
12. Have only one working lung
13. Have suffered from "traumatic castration"
14. Have a brain abscess (!)
15. Have a substantial skull defect
16. Have Parkinson's (!)
17. Have extreme scoliosis
18. Have severe chest deformities
19. Have "severe adrenal insufficiency" (it's a war eh?)
20. Have no bladder.

It also apparently drops the official conscription age from 27 to 25, but I doubt that's been taken adhered to at any point in the war and particularly not in the last year.]

---

Ukraine has a high conscription age and non conscription eligible if you have multiple young children because they are actually trying to care for their immediate demographic needs. Yes, Russia doesn't care about their proxy army, but they don't care about their regular army either.

The answer continues to be the give U.S. taxpayer dollar to those that fund the Biden Crime Family.

How many oligarchs have we continued to enrich?

Thought Russia collapsed already from those vaunted sanctions ?

A (clearly) Democratic member of Congress essentially says the White House needs to keep lying publicly about Ukraine because Biden is running for re-election. Good stuff. Adults in charge pic.twitter.com/N3WI1ngx5a

— Joe Gabriel Simonson (@SaysSimonson) December 27, 2023

KaiBear said:

---

Thought Russia collapsed already from those vaunted sanctions ?

---

I thought the US dollar was in danger due to Russia/China's power and might….

New narrative dropped. https://t.co/orFGl8Vvkb

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) December 27, 2023

ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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quash said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

Bizarre response. You are the one disregarding the strong majority of Ukrainians. Obviously nobody can speak for every Ukrainian. Brutal straw man there. Strange that it bothers you so much that they want to fight for their country.

I'd like to think I'd fight to defend my country. Would you?

And what do dodgers have to do with anything. That's the case in all wars. It's as old as time.

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Thought Russia collapsed already from those vaunted sanctions ?

---

I thought the US dollar was in danger due to Russia/China's power and might….

---

Don't recall making any forecast about the strength of the US dollar in regards to Russia.

IMO Biden economics is the biggest threat to the strength of the U.S. dollar.

sombear said:

---

Bizarre response. You are the one disregarding the strong majority of Ukrainians. Obviously nobody can speak for every Ukrainian. Brutal straw man there. Strange that it bothers you so much that they want to fight for their country.

I'd like to think I'd fight to defend my country. Would you?

And what do dodgers have to do with anything. That's the case in all wars. It's as old as time.

---

You are shilling for a war in Eastern Europe when your own country is being invaded right now.

200,000 illegal invaders over the borders monthly.

A war our own intelligence agencies in large part helped to start by overthrowing the last government in Kyiv and helping to scuttle any peace deals since.

lol give me a freaking break

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Bizarre response. You are the one disregarding the strong majority of Ukrainians. Obviously nobody can speak for every Ukrainian. Brutal straw man there. Strange that it bothers you so much that they want to fight for their country.

I'd like to think I'd fight to defend my country. Would you?

And what do dodgers have to do with anything. That's the case in all wars. It's as old as time.

---

You are shilling for a war in Eastern Europe when your own country is being invaded right now.

200,000 illegal invaders over the borders monthly.

A war our own intelligence agencies in large part helped to start by overthrowing the last government in Kyiv and helping to scuttle any peace deals since.

lol give me a freaking break

---

And back to Nuland the Conqueror. Excellent pivot!

. . .

---

I have noticed you are incapable of admitting that DC was involved in anyway with regime change in Kyiv.

Anyway how is the war you wanted so badly going for Ukraine?

Looks like the DC backed faction of oligarchs in Kyiv is having to call up 55 year olds and people in bad heath conditions to keep this war going.

(Not to mention arresting at gun point any Ukrainian man that tries to flee)

How much longer until you think DC will let them negotiate an end to this war?

That spring offense you were counting on ended like a wet fart.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war, and we told y'all they were going to full scale attack for months. You chose not to believe they would actually attack. I laid out a very well defined reason why Russia had to attack because they had no economic options to not do it given the military buildup. That's not insider trading, that's seeing shlt written on the wall and buying. Maybe buy an out of the money put underneath it in case it doesn't happen. That's actual trading

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

---

boomer?!! lol, I'm like 5 years older than you

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

---

a state that abided by de-militarization the first time around with the understanding that if Russia fully invaded them they'd be given aide, otherwise, they'd not have demilitarized. Anyone with knowledge of Putin and Russia could see the writing on the wall that it'd eventually happen. Anyone with knowledge of economics could see that it had to happen after the "6 month training exercise with 1/3 of the entire enlisted army" happened in'21.

Redbrickbear said:

---

New narrative dropped. https://t.co/orFGl8Vvkb

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) December 27, 2023

---

I pointed out long ago that the point of this war is for the west and Russia to divvy up the spoils of putting Ukrainian men through the meat grinder.

Now western media is laying the groundwork for promoting a peace deal where Ukraine gives up some land.

This ends with Russia acquiring some territory and western banks and corporations like blackrock owning half a trillion worth of real estate and rental properties.

Since Ukraine is a good little DC puppet they'll be flooded with mass immigration.

trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

---

boomer?!! lol, I'm like 5 years older than you

---

Why I said you…and the boomers (technically I think you're 4 years older)

Though I get the feeling most people on here are millennials and Gen. X

There is a strange Cold War mentality on here that seems unable to make a distinction between the old USSR and the modern Russian state.

They are not the same entities nor or that even remotely militarily similar in power.

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

Yes. Particularly the human cost of American citizens, which right now stands at ZERO in Ukraine, thanks to our wise policy of helping Ukraine fight for their own country (which they are highly motivated to do) thus resulting in a destruction of approximately half of the Russian military (which would otherwise be building to threaten NATO and by extension American lives.)

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Bizarre response. You are the one disregarding the strong majority of Ukrainians. Obviously nobody can speak for every Ukrainian. Brutal straw man there. Strange that it bothers you so much that they want to fight for their country.

I'd like to think I'd fight to defend my country. Would you?

And what do dodgers have to do with anything. That's the case in all wars. It's as old as time.

---

You are shilling for a war in Eastern Europe when your own country is being invaded right now.

200,000 illegal invaders over the borders monthly.

A war our own intelligence agencies in large part helped to start by overthrowing the last government in Kyiv and helping to scuttle any peace deals since.

lol give me a freaking break

---

you give us a freaking break with the freaking false dilemmas. If we shut down the Ukraine show tomorrow, it will have no impact on the border whatsoever.

We have to engage and win on BOTH problems.

trey3216 said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

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Quote:

---

Quote:

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Quote:

---

Quote:

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

---

boomer?!! lol, I'm like 5 years older than you

---

the genetic fallacy is part of his DNA.

All he can do is whine that Russia is no threat to us, as if the Cold War never happened. As if the last 20 years of Russian aggression never happened. As if the world would all live as one if the USA would just retreat back within its borders and studiously ignore everything beyond our borders.

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

---

and many of those "tens of thousands" were ordered to fight against Ukraine at the barrel of a Russian rifle. Let's not forget the 3mm+ St. Pete and Muscovite men that fled their country so they don't get marched to slaughter in Andiivka and Bakhmut at the orders of their General Major Lieutenant Sergeant

---

Sure, both sides are forcing men to fight who don't want to.

DC and Moscow don't care about their proxy forces. And there are lots of people on both sides who don't want to fight this conflict.

---

The only people forcing Ukrainians to fight are Russians. Not proxies, but actual Russian military regulars.

But I thought you said DC cared too much? Which is it? They don't care so they let them get slaughtered, or they care too much about them and not the American people that they waste Billions of our tax dollars on Ukrainians?

---

You think DC is not getting a huge cut from that money being spent?

You don't think DC is making money by insider trading on defense stocks?


They obviously don't care about dead Ukrainians anymore than they care about dead Iraqis, afghans, or Syrians


Heck they don't even really care about Americans

---

it's not really insider trading when they're literally at war, and when we knew they were going to be at war,

---

Again they…not us


When the heck did Ukraine become a part of the USA or even an enrolled rally of the USA?

You and the rest of the boomers on here act like we are obligated to spend billions on this corrupt falling apart Eastern European State that apparently can't remain on good terms with its larger neighbor.

A corrupt state than could not even beat some separatists in the Donbas.

But yes I agree that DC insides saw the conflict coming, rooted it on, and have profited obscenely on the bloodshed since.

---

boomer?!! lol, I'm like 5 years older than you

---

the genetic fallacy is part of his DNA.

All he can do is whine that Russia is no threat to us, as if the Cold War never happened. As if the last 20 years of Russian aggression never happened..

---

Yea I forgot now Russia has been moving its military alliance closer to our borders and building up bases right on our door step over the last 20 years




In reality is the geopolitical situation is more like:

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Bizarre response. You are the one disregarding the strong majority of Ukrainians. Obviously nobody can speak for every Ukrainian. Brutal straw man there. Strange that it bothers you so much that they want to fight for their country.

I'd like to think I'd fight to defend my country. Would you?

And what do dodgers have to do with anything. That's the case in all wars. It's as old as time.

---

You are shilling for a war in Eastern Europe when your own country is being invaded right now.

200,000 illegal invaders over the borders monthly.

A war our own intelligence agencies in large part helped to start by overthrowing the last government in Kyiv and helping to scuttle any peace deals since.

lol give me a freaking break

---

you give us a freaking break with the freaking false dilemmas. If we shut down the Ukraine show tomorrow, it will have no impact on the border whatsoever.

We have to engage and win on BOTH problems.

---

One of those issues is a possible existential problem for the USA and its future survival as a nation-state.

At best it will determine if the USA will be ruled by a political coalition of progressive coastal liberals and destitute 3rd worlders for the foreseeable future.

The other is a rusting out ex-Soviet state that has never been an ally of ours or in our sphere of influence.

It's not a problem for Americans at all really.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

That is difficult for many of us to understand. We have lives that the vast majority of the world can only dream about, and we are not surrounded by enemies who could invade at any time.

Or perhaps Nuland the Conqueror is coercing Ukrainians by sending them shiploads of cookies.

---

Further, the lives we enjoy today are in very large part due to the leadership roll the US has played on the world stage in defending freedom and democracy since WWII. Absent our roll, the world and the US would look a lot different.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Your "Western Guilt" sounds exactly like the ultra-progressives "White Guilt". Go far enough one way and you're the exact same person you bltch about on the other side.

---

White guilt is woke nonsense.

Banks and mega corporations bankrolling politicians to benefit themselves is a FACT.

Putin got the 'Lord of War/Merchant of Death' Viktor Bout released in exchange for petty dope fiend basketball player Brittney Griner, We're not serious people my guy. Its embarrassing.

There's a reason why DC won't do anything about mass illegal immigration, healthcare costs, inflation and any of the other insane bs screwing the middle class. It has everything to do with who benefits financially from these problems. How can America help Ukraine when we can't even stop millions of illegals from crossing the border, can't stop fentanyl, lost in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and so on?

Ukraine is exhausting its young combatants and their injuries will be chronic/long lasting. Further they loses their labor productivity. They'll have a country of old men, also wounded, that have no positive economic yield. Taxes cant cover this cost.

Anybody who is actually familiar with the defense industry, listens to every earnings call and etc, knew the Ukraine war was gonna have a short shelf life and asymmetrical advantage to Russia once they got air cover and their defense industry ramped up.

Economics of war isn't new.

---

a reminder what military aid to ukraine prevents:

if kyiv fell, projected military bases on the border with nato pic.twitter.com/Iz6sZER61i

— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) December 19, 2023

---

So this war was always about getting NATO military bases closer to Russia?

Good to see people are dropping the charade that the war in Ukraine was being conducted by the US leadership to "save democracy".

About as ludicrous as Putin's "we are going into Ukraine to fight Nazis"

It was and is all about geo-strategic military power plays

---

Ironic you admit that quietly about fighting Nazis now considering earlier in this war you were making comments affirming how Russia was fighting real Nazis.

---

I affirmed there were and are neo-Nazis fighting with the Ukrainian forces.

I didn't try to deny that inconvenient fact (like you did)

It's also just obvious that Putin does not care anymore about fighting against nazism than our ruling class cares about fighting for democracy….both are excuses

---

the excuses for what? What? What is Putin fighting for? Say it.

---

Keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Keep the Black Sea fleet at their current base.

What are we fighting for again? Why are we wasting billions?

---

But Ukraine had not even applied for Nato partner status, much less Nato membership.
But the Russian fleet WAS safe & secure at Sevastopol when all of this started in 2014 (or even 2022).
But WE are not fighting.
Ukrainians are fighting for their own, internationally recognized sovereign territory.

We are not wasting billions. We are destroying the Russian war machine, literally chewing up 70-80 years of munitions and weaponry, to deny Russian ability to bring it all to bear against NATO member states.

If it weren't for false premises, you have no premises at all.

---

I've seen this calculation a lot lately. US $, Russian hardware and materiel.

Does nobody count the human cost? Lives matter.

---

They are always ready to fight to the last dead Ukrainian.

All the while telling us victory against Putler is just another $100 billion in US taxpayer cash away from happening.

---

For someone who speaks out so often against meddling, you sure have no problem speaking for the Ukrainian people. As has been the case in most countries throughout history, Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to defend their country. Most are willing to risk their lives.

.

---

Tens of thousands of eastern Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to get independence from the U.S. backed government in Kyiv.

And let's not forget the many thousands and thousands fleeing out of the country to avoid fighting in this proxy war.

The Ukrainian people are not of a single mind on this war… you sure as hell don't know what they all think.

You wanna get your balls blown off fighting the big bad russkies then get on a plane buddy and head over.

Zelensky would be happy to have another pawn.

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And thousands of Russian men have fled to avoid the fight. The truth is, a vast majority of Ukrainians support the war, and do not want to live under a Russian dictator. They're proving it everyday. I know Ukrainians, and they don't consider themselves a Zelensky pawn - rather a Putin victim.

With what they have, they've done far better than what you and Putin expected. Y'all thought it would be over in weeks if not days. It's abundantly clear the Ukrainian people don't want to live under Putin's thumb. The war is still going on, and Putin is stymied. They'll be successful as long as the west supports them.