CIA Built "12 Secret Spy Bases" In Ukraine & Waged Shadow War For Last Decade, Bombshell NYT Report Confirms

"On Sunday The New York Times published an explosive and very belated full admission that US intelligence has not only been instrumental in Ukraine wartime decision-making, but has established and financed high tech command-and-control spy centers, and was doing so long prior to the Feb. 24 Russian invasion of two years ago.

Among the biggest revelations is that the program was established a decade ago and spans three different American presidents. The Times says the CIA program to modernize Ukraine's intelligence services has "transformed" the former Soviet state and its capabilities into "Washington's most important intelligence partners against the Kremlin today."

This has included the agency having secretly trained and equipped Ukrainian intelligence officers spanning back to just after the 2014 Maidan coup events, as well constructing a network of 12 secret bases along the Russian border, work which began eight years ago."

We've been unnecessarily poking the bear for a long time, and yet the neocons and their democrat allies would have you believe that Putin! Putin! Putin! woke up one morning and suddenly decided to roll into Ukraine because he's Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional...

---

Honeslty it's the best thing about Trump.

He understands it's a two way relationship with his voters and that he has to do something for them


Vs respectable republicans like Bush and Nikki who do nothing for their voters and actively betray them for the donor class

Evangelical Christian George W Bush

Trump

Who delivered more?

This stuff isn’t hard.

Pray fast do all of that.

Whether a politician is Christian or not is totally irrelevant and usually is a lie, anyway. https://t.co/8LdT0jDQKW

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 24, 2024

---

Fair point.

Trump does try to accommodate his supporters.

If only he could keep his mouth shut while doing it

---

Trump plays to the Christian crowd more than any other candidate I've seen. He plays us like a piano.

---

Literally not true.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is more popular with non-committed Christians and those who don't go to church much if at all.

While he has lower levels of approval among committed Christians.

Many serious Christians hold their nose and vote for Trump (because the other party has become a truly radical anti-religious party and anti-white racialist party)

But they do not love Trump and never will.

---

Trump did better with self-described white evangelicals than W, McCain, and Romney.

But my point was about Trump campaigning for that vote. He surrounded himself with evangelical preachers and other influential members like no candidates before him.

---

Couldn't never understand why in the hell would ministers support that heathen? I give you the all time evangelical clown,, Robert Jeffress. What an idiot.

---

1. Because Republican "Christians" like the Bush family have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep's clothing.


They do nothing for their base and just get us into more wars.


2. The Democratic Party is a functionally anti-religious party.


3. Christianity is in institutional decline in the USA. You are seeing with Trump the rise of the post-religious right.


If you hated the old Christian conservative coalition you are really gonna be afraid of the post-religious Right

---

I'm totally calling bull**** on most of this nonsense and FRWNJ. 1). I know 43 and you can quarrel with his Presidency, however, he is one of the best Christian men you can find. That is a fact.

---

I don't want to get in a fight with you but George W Bush is a moral monster (and a globalist)

His war of choice in Iraq was in violation of international law and got thousands of Americans killed, trillions in taxpayer money wasted, and somewhere between 300,000 to 1 million Iraqis killed.

He is not a good Christian and he will have a LOT to answer for when he stands before the Lord of Hosts at the end times…..I would not want to be in his shoes at the last judgement

---

Again Red, we/me can quarrel with wars etc, but again I know him and he is a good human, Christian man.

Realitybites said:

---

CIA Built "12 Secret Spy Bases" In Ukraine & Waged Shadow War For Last Decade, Bombshell NYT Report Confirms


On Sunday The New York Times published an explosive and very belated full admission that US intelligence has not only been instrumental in Ukraine wartime decision-making, but has established and financed high tech command-and-control spy centers, and was doing so long prior to the Feb. 24 Russian invasion of two years ago.

Among the biggest revelations is that the program was established a decade ago and spans three different American presidents. The Times says the CIA program to modernize Ukraine's intelligence services has "transformed" the former Soviet state and its capabilities into "Washington's most important intelligence partners against the Kremlin today."

This has included the agency having secretly trained and equipped Ukrainian intelligence officers spanning back to just after the 2014 Maidan coup events, as well constructing a network of 12 secret bases along the Russian borderwork which began eight years ago.

We've been unnecessarily poking the bear for a long time, and yet the neocons and their democrat allies would have you believe that Putin! Putin! Putin! woke up one morning and suddenly decided to roll into Ukraine because he's Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!

---

Still shilling for the Russians I see.

J.R. said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional...

---

Honeslty it's the best thing about Trump.

He understands it's a two way relationship with his voters and that he has to do something for them


Vs respectable republicans like Bush and Nikki who do nothing for their voters and actively betray them for the donor class

Evangelical Christian George W Bush

Trump

Who delivered more?

This stuff isn’t hard.

Pray fast do all of that.

Whether a politician is Christian or not is totally irrelevant and usually is a lie, anyway. https://t.co/8LdT0jDQKW

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 24, 2024

---

Fair point.

Trump does try to accommodate his supporters.

If only he could keep his mouth shut while doing it

---

Trump plays to the Christian crowd more than any other candidate I've seen. He plays us like a piano.

---

Literally not true.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is more popular with non-committed Christians and those who don't go to church much if at all.

While he has lower levels of approval among committed Christians.

Many serious Christians hold their nose and vote for Trump (because the other party has become a truly radical anti-religious party and anti-white racialist party)

But they do not love Trump and never will.

---

Trump did better with self-described white evangelicals than W, McCain, and Romney.

But my point was about Trump campaigning for that vote. He surrounded himself with evangelical preachers and other influential members like no candidates before him.

---

Couldn't never understand why in the hell would ministers support that heathen? I give you the all time evangelical clown,, Robert Jeffress. What an idiot.

---

1. Because Republican "Christians" like the Bush family have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep's clothing.


They do nothing for their base and just get us into more wars.


2. The Democratic Party is a functionally anti-religious party.


3. Christianity is in institutional decline in the USA. You are seeing with Trump the rise of the post-religious right.


If you hated the old Christian conservative coalition you are really gonna be afraid of the post-religious Right

---

I'm totally calling bull**** on most of this nonsense and FRWNJ. 1). I know 43 and you can quarrel with his Presidency, however, he is one of the best Christian men you can find. That is a fact.

---

I don't want to get in a fight with you but George W Bush is a moral monster (and a globalist)

His war of choice in Iraq was in violation of international law and got thousands of Americans killed, trillions in taxpayer money wasted, and somewhere between 300,000 to 1 million Iraqis killed.

He is not a good Christian and he will have a LOT to answer for when he stands before the Lord of Hosts at the end times…..I would not want to be in his shoes at the last judgement

---

Again Red, we/me can quarrel with wars etc, but again I know him and he is a good human, Christian man.

---

Agreed, I suspect Bush has far more charisma than Trump. But I have never met either of them.

You know ex president Bush personally ?

How did you come to meet the man ?

Realitybites said:

---

CIA Built "12 Secret Spy Bases" In Ukraine & Waged Shadow War For Last Decade, Bombshell NYT Report Confirms

"On Sunday The New York Times published an explosive and very belated full admission that US intelligence has not only been instrumental in Ukraine wartime decision-making, but has established and financed high tech command-and-control spy centers, and was doing so long prior to the Feb. 24 Russian invasion of two years ago.

Among the biggest revelations is that the program was established a decade ago and spans three different American presidents. The Times says the CIA program to modernize Ukraine's intelligence services has "transformed" the former Soviet state and its capabilities into "Washington's most important intelligence partners against the Kremlin today."

This has included the agency having secretly trained and equipped Ukrainian intelligence officers spanning back to just after the 2014 Maidan coup events, as well constructing a network of 12 secret bases along the Russian border, work which began eight years ago."

We've been unnecessarily poking the bear for a long time, and yet the neocons and their democrat allies would have you believe that Putin! Putin! Putin! woke up one morning and suddenly decided to roll into Ukraine because he's Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!

---

lol "secret spy bases"
EGADSBatman!!!!

News flash; Wherever there is a Russian border, we will have intel collection going on against it or die trying. Has always been so. And mostly successful.

For that matter….wherever there is an official American installation of any kind (excerpt for USAID) you can safely presume there is US intel collection going on. And if there is anything Russian in the area, it will be collected against. 24-7/365 around the world.

Talk about blowing nothing out of all proportion.

Below the motto "In God We Trust" there is an often overlooked disclaimer in fine print that says "we poke bears".

It's what we do. Because we can.

[Don't Expect New Sanctions on Russia to Do Anything

A new round of economic punishments, this time for the death of Alexei Navalny, is unlikely to be more successful than previous efforts.

Although, in the wake of attacks by Iran-supported groups in the Middle East, a senior White House adviser claimed that "extreme sanctions" had throttled the Iranian energy sector, a New York Times investigation reported that the country was still exporting billions of dollars of oil. The investigative reportcomplete with substantial photographic evidence of sanctions evasion by oil tankers coming from Iranian ports or transshipping oil to other tankers at seablows a big hole in the White House narrative of effectively ratcheting up the pressure on Iran for its proxies' attacks on U.S. military activities in the region.

Similar evasion has occurred with trying to limit Russian exports of oil in the wake of its 2022 invasion of Ukraine. In that case, because Russia is such a big oil producer, the aim was not to choke off all its oil exportswhich could have resulted in a sustained elevation in the world price of oil, thereby endangering the election prospects of certain Western politiciansbut to create a price ceiling under which only Russian oil could be sold. Enforcing this price ceiling regime is difficult too. Spoofing tanker locations and oil transfers at sea can also help hide the origin of Russian oil to evade the price ceiling. The Times also found spoofing on cargoes of sanctioned Venezuelan oil exports.

And economic sanctions on oil exports are not the only ones that can be flouted. Sanctions can be unilaterally imposed or multilaterally promulgated by a cartel of countries. Unless a single country imposing the sanctions has a monopoly (is a single seller) or a monopsony (is a single buyerin which case unilateral sanctions might substantially raise or lower the price of the product, respectively, thus hurting target countryunilateral sanctions usually are merely symbolic to indicate displeasure with target by the sanctioning nation. Getting other countries to go along with sanctions to form a sanctioning cartelas the United States normally attemptscan increase the price effects but rarely can completely cut off the target from importing or exporting target products because of the evasion techniques, including those above.

Multilateral sanctions take more time to coordinate and implement than unilateral sanctions and may bite for a while, but then most target countries learn ways to substantially evade them over time. The sanctions against Russia for its invasion (and likely the ones to be imposed for the death of dissident Alexei Navalny), and on Iran and Venezuela for behaviors the United States doesn't like, have all had some economic effect, but they cannot be evaluated for success solely by short- or long-term economic pain inflicted. They have in fact not radically changed those countries' actions.

Economic sanctions are economic punishments used to achieve political ends...]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dont-expect-new-sanctions-on-russia-to-do-anything/

The narrative is coming apart quickly now:
— Budanov says Navalny died of natural causes, contradicting Biden & Nuland
— NYT blows the lid off 10 years of CIA provocations in Ukraine
— Zelensky is laughed off the internet for his 31k casualty count
— TIME calls General Ben a 🤡

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) February 26, 2024

The @nytimes recently published a bombshell report that the CIA has been playing a much more significant role in Ukraine than previously thought.

According to the report, the CIA has been instrumental in Ukraine's wartime decision-making, establishing and financing high-tech… pic.twitter.com/3KkKW4nOJM

— Jeff Dornik (@jeffdornik) February 26, 2024

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional...

---

Honeslty it's the best thing about Trump.

He understands it's a two way relationship with his voters and that he has to do something for them


Vs respectable republicans like Bush and Nikki who do nothing for their voters and actively betray them for the donor class

Evangelical Christian George W Bush

Trump

Who delivered more?

This stuff isn’t hard.

Pray fast do all of that.

Whether a politician is Christian or not is totally irrelevant and usually is a lie, anyway. https://t.co/8LdT0jDQKW

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 24, 2024

---

Fair point.

Trump does try to accommodate his supporters.

If only he could keep his mouth shut while doing it

---

Trump plays to the Christian crowd more than any other candidate I've seen. He plays us like a piano.

---

Literally not true.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is more popular with non-committed Christians and those who don't go to church much if at all.

While he has lower levels of approval among committed Christians.

Many serious Christians hold their nose and vote for Trump (because the other party has become a truly radical anti-religious party and anti-white racialist party)

But they do not love Trump and never will.

---

Trump did better with self-described white evangelicals than W, McCain, and Romney.

But my point was about Trump campaigning for that vote. He surrounded himself with evangelical preachers and other influential members like no candidates before him.

---

Couldn't never understand why in the hell would ministers support that heathen? I give you the all time evangelical clown,, Robert Jeffress. What an idiot.

---

1. Because Republican "Christians" like the Bush family have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep's clothing.


They do nothing for their base and just get us into more wars.


2. The Democratic Party is a functionally anti-religious party.


3. Christianity is in institutional decline in the USA. You are seeing with Trump the rise of the post-religious right.


If you hated the old Christian conservative coalition you are really gonna be afraid of the post-religious Right

---

I'm totally calling bull**** on most of this nonsense and FRWNJ. 1). I know 43 and you can quarrel with his Presidency, however, he is one of the best Christian men you can find. That is a fact.

---

I don't want to get in a fight with you but George W Bush is a moral monster (and a globalist)

His war of choice in Iraq was in violation of international law and got thousands of Americans killed, trillions in taxpayer money wasted, and somewhere between 300,000 to 1 million Iraqis killed.

He is not a good Christian and he will have a LOT to answer for when he stands before the Lord of Hosts at the end times…..I would not want to be in his shoes at the last judgement

---

Again Red, we/me can quarrel with wars etc, but again I know him and he is a good human, Christian man.

---

Agreed, I suspect Bush has far more charisma than Trump. But I have never met either of them.

You know ex president Bush personally ?

How did you come to meet the man ?

---

yes. My mother ran his campaign in Texas. He officed in the building across from mine in Preston Center. Members of the same clubs. He lives in Dallas where I live. Funny story here. He bought a friend of mine's house. When he moved in, Dan would get calls from him asking where is this that and the other. He has always been really kind. Another funny story...about 4 years ago, my son and 3 buddies were playing golf and here comes 2 carts, one with 2 people in golf attire and another cart with 2 dudes in suits. So my son's grew were like wth? They rolled up on the tee and asked to play through as he only had 2. He walks up on the tee, walks over to my son's crew and asked all of them where they went to HS. What they do. Where are yall going to college? Then, he says, "boys get over here and get a pic. Then he absolutely shanked the tee shot. He turned around and said "boys I suck, hope yall are better. Kinda cool. During his campaign , we had a fundraiser in my parent's backyard where the great Joe Ely played. That is how.

BREAKING:

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announces the Netherlands will contribute EUR 100 million to a Czech initiative to buy artillery shells for Ukraine across the world

Czech President @prezidentpavel says Czechia has found 800 000 shells that can be bought quickly

🇳🇱🇨🇿 pic.twitter.com/iODq4Z2hkN

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 26, 2024

"It is the cold logic of the situation in Ukraine that if NATO becomes directly involved, a strategic nuclear exchange becomes very possible. It is in everyone's immediate interest this not happen.

And while it may seem very unlikely, it's probably not good to be complacent, based solely on how the previous generation managed to survive the Cold War. The people leading the west today are orders of magnitude more deranged and stupid than anyone from that period.

In addition, a defining fact of the Cold War was the fear of a nuclear exchange, whereas it plays almost no role in the public consciousness today. This poses a risk of 'sleepwalking' into disaster."

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

NATO is destabilizing, not the guy that took Crimea in 2014 and rolled 200k troops and tanks across the Ukraine border. He is just a nice guy...

---

And the CIA was involved in Ukraine long before that and helped launch a coup against the old government leading directly to a separatist war in the East and the secession/occupation of Crimea

They’re patting themselves on the back, and If you’re a serious person, you’ll applaud. They’ve played this beautifully from the start, just like they did with Operation Cyclone and in the lead to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

But if you’re a crank like me, you’ll wonder about… pic.twitter.com/KOgO4eINuq

— Lafayette Lee (@Partisan_O) February 26, 2024

Bumping this because of today’s NYT article on the CIA in Ukraine. Subs for the past 8 weeks have heard me talk about the tell for the CIA’s role in Ukraine from the known roles of the State Dept & the Pentagon in Ukraine — which means, by definition, CIA is active in the region. https://t.co/fw2MmG3MUY

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 26, 2024

The President of France, Emmanuel Macron stated tonight that “All Options are on the Table” to prevent Russia from Succeeding in their Invasion of Ukraine including the possible Deployment of NATO Ground Troops, with him further stating, “We will do whatever it takes to ensure… pic.twitter.com/ozKmJ3yah8

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) February 26, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

---

The @nytimes recently published a bombshell report that the CIA has been playing a much more significant role in Ukraine than previously thought.

According to the report, the CIA has been instrumental in Ukraine's wartime decision-making, establishing and financing high-tech… pic.twitter.com/3KkKW4nOJM

— Jeff Dornik (@jeffdornik) February 26, 2024

---

I have said as much in this thread in others. Only a fool could think Ukraine figured out how to stop the Russian invasion all on its own. Much intel liaison and military training going on post-2014. As well there should have been.

What we've done in Ukraine the past decade is a smashing foreign policy success, exponentially driving up the cost of Russian expansionism. Greatest return on federal spending in decades.

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional...

---

Honeslty it's the best thing about Trump.

He understands it's a two way relationship with his voters and that he has to do something for them


Vs respectable republicans like Bush and Nikki who do nothing for their voters and actively betray them for the donor class

Evangelical Christian George W Bush

Trump

Who delivered more?

This stuff isn’t hard.

Pray fast do all of that.

Whether a politician is Christian or not is totally irrelevant and usually is a lie, anyway. https://t.co/8LdT0jDQKW

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 24, 2024

---

Fair point.

Trump does try to accommodate his supporters.

If only he could keep his mouth shut while doing it

---

Trump plays to the Christian crowd more than any other candidate I've seen. He plays us like a piano.

---

Literally not true.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is more popular with non-committed Christians and those who don't go to church much if at all.

While he has lower levels of approval among committed Christians.

Many serious Christians hold their nose and vote for Trump (because the other party has become a truly radical anti-religious party and anti-white racialist party)

But they do not love Trump and never will.

---

Trump did better with self-described white evangelicals than W, McCain, and Romney.

But my point was about Trump campaigning for that vote. He surrounded himself with evangelical preachers and other influential members like no candidates before him.

---

Couldn't never understand why in the hell would ministers support that heathen? I give you the all time evangelical clown,, Robert Jeffress. What an idiot.

---

1. Because Republican "Christians" like the Bush family have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep's clothing.


They do nothing for their base and just get us into more wars.


2. The Democratic Party is a functionally anti-religious party.


3. Christianity is in institutional decline in the USA. You are seeing with Trump the rise of the post-religious right.


If you hated the old Christian conservative coalition you are really gonna be afraid of the post-religious Right

---

You might want to do some more research on item 3. Recent trends are at odds with your statement.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/number-of-americans-attending-church-in-person-is-rising.html

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

Lol no.

---

Isn't it amazing to see such illogic?

Russia invades Crimea, to virtually universal international opprobrium. Then annexes it, to virtually universal international opprobrium. Then, 8 years later, it invades Ukraine to take the rest of the country, again to virtually universal opprobrium. As a result of the last invasion, two long-time paragon neutral countries spin on a dime to join NATO, which against all expectations rallies unanimously to support Ukraine and (belatedly) ramp up their own military spending. In view of all of that, the isolationist wing of the US electorate decides that the pre-2014 territorial territorial integrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table. So, too, they say, is the prospect of a remnant Ukrainian entity belonging to Nato - because, all of it, from start to finish, is USA's fault for poking the bear. That Nato expansionism the root cause of it all, despite the fact that NATO has never invaded a square inch of anything, that membership in NATO is completely voluntary, that membership in NATO requires unanimous consent to join.

And then they bristle when people call them soft on Russia.

Redbrickbear said:

---

[Don't Expect New Sanctions on Russia to Do Anything

A new round of economic punishments, this time for the death of Alexei Navalny, is unlikely to be more successful than previous efforts.

Although, in the wake of attacks by Iran-supported groups in the Middle East, a senior White House adviser claimed that "extreme sanctions" had throttled the Iranian energy sector, a New York Times investigation reported that the country was still exporting billions of dollars of oil. The investigative reportcomplete with substantial photographic evidence of sanctions evasion by oil tankers coming from Iranian ports or transshipping oil to other tankers at seablows a big hole in the White House narrative of effectively ratcheting up the pressure on Iran for its proxies' attacks on U.S. military activities in the region.

Similar evasion has occurred with trying to limit Russian exports of oil in the wake of its 2022 invasion of Ukraine. In that case, because Russia is such a big oil producer, the aim was not to choke off all its oil exportswhich could have resulted in a sustained elevation in the world price of oil, thereby endangering the election prospects of certain Western politiciansbut to create a price ceiling under which only Russian oil could be sold. Enforcing this price ceiling regime is difficult too. Spoofing tanker locations and oil transfers at sea can also help hide the origin of Russian oil to evade the price ceiling. The Times also found spoofing on cargoes of sanctioned Venezuelan oil exports.

And economic sanctions on oil exports are not the only ones that can be flouted. Sanctions can be unilaterally imposed or multilaterally promulgated by a cartel of countries. Unless a single country imposing the sanctions has a monopoly (is a single seller) or a monopsony (is a single buyerin which case unilateral sanctions might substantially raise or lower the price of the product, respectively, thus hurting target countryunilateral sanctions usually are merely symbolic to indicate displeasure with target by the sanctioning nation. Getting other countries to go along with sanctions to form a sanctioning cartelas the United States normally attemptscan increase the price effects but rarely can completely cut off the target from importing or exporting target products because of the evasion techniques, including those above.

Multilateral sanctions take more time to coordinate and implement than unilateral sanctions and may bite for a while, but then most target countries learn ways to substantially evade them over time. The sanctions against Russia for its invasion (and likely the ones to be imposed for the death of dissident Alexei Navalny), and on Iran and Venezuela for behaviors the United States doesn't like, have all had some economic effect, but they cannot be evaluated for success solely by short- or long-term economic pain inflicted. They have in fact not radically changed those countries' actions.

Economic sanctions are economic punishments used to achieve political ends...]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dont-expect-new-sanctions-on-russia-to-do-anything/

---

False dilemma. Sanctions never cause collapse of states. Look at South Africa. Could have gone on for decades more under the most onerous sanctions ever put in place (given its relative power position).

Sanctions drive up the cost of policy for the state on the receiving end, and put in place things to negotiate over (removal of all/parts of sanctions) at denouement. They are one of many tools, not a solution.

whiterock said:

---

You might want to do some more research on item 3. Recent trends are at odds with your statement.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/number-of-americans-attending-church-in-person-is-rising.html

---

Using a data point when all but a few churches bowed the knee to Caesar and closed during Covid as a standard of comparison doesn't give you the true picture.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/pf_10-17-19_rdd_update-00-017/

whiterock said:

---

False dilemma. Sanctions never cause collapse of states. Look at South Africa. Could have gone on for decades more under the most onerous sanctions ever put in place (given its relative power position).

---

South Africa wasn't in the business of printing the world's reserve currency.

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

False dilemma. Sanctions never cause collapse of states. Look at South Africa. Could have gone on for decades more under the most onerous sanctions ever put in place (given its relative power position).

---

South Africa wasn't in the business of printing the world's reserve currency.

---

Neither is Russia.

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

You might want to do some more research on item 3. Recent trends are at odds with your statement.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/number-of-americans-attending-church-in-person-is-rising.html

---

Using a data point when all but a few churches bowed the knee to Caesar and closed during Covid as a standard of comparison doesn't give you the true picture.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/pf_10-17-19_rdd_update-00-017/

---

2019 is an even less true picture.

Facts are facts. Church attendance is rising, and it's rising fastest in the demographics that were in steepest decline before the pandemic.

Christianity has been declared dead before, yet, a couple of millennia down the road, it's doing just fine. USA will be a majority Christian nation long after you and I are dead.

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The @nytimes recently published a bombshell report that the CIA has been playing a much more significant role in Ukraine than previously thought.

According to the report, the CIA has been instrumental in Ukraine's wartime decision-making, establishing and financing high-tech… pic.twitter.com/3KkKW4nOJM

— Jeff Dornik (@jeffdornik) February 26, 2024

---

I have said as much in this thread in others. Only a fool could think Ukraine figured out how to stop the Russian invasion all on its own. Much intel liaison and military training going on post-2014. As well there should have been.

What we've done in Ukraine the past decade is a smashing foreign policy success, exponentially driving up the cost of Russian expansionism. Greatest return on federal spending in decades.

---

You still fail to understand that without what we were doing in Ukraine circa 2014 onward, there would have been no invasion. There still is no "Russian expansionism". Modern Russia has no interest in ruling Western Ukrainians, Poles, or Germans. They have an extremely high level of interest in preventing NATO munitions from falling on Russians going to this grocery store. I know that is a little hard to grasp given the utter lack of concern DC has for the lives of main street Americans.

Just yesterday one of our illustrious DC politicians said that the single data point of a Venezuelan illegal crossing the border, going to New York and then on to Athens, Georgia before getting a job with a fake green card at UGA and beating a coed to death shouldn't affect policy.

This is the same kind of vermin who will vote to degrade your standard of living by printing and sending billions to Ukraine to fight Russia for no good reason.

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional...

---

Honeslty it's the best thing about Trump.

He understands it's a two way relationship with his voters and that he has to do something for them


Vs respectable republicans like Bush and Nikki who do nothing for their voters and actively betray them for the donor class

Evangelical Christian George W Bush

Trump

Who delivered more?

This stuff isn’t hard.

Pray fast do all of that.

Whether a politician is Christian or not is totally irrelevant and usually is a lie, anyway. https://t.co/8LdT0jDQKW

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 24, 2024

---

Fair point.

Trump does try to accommodate his supporters.

If only he could keep his mouth shut while doing it

---

Trump plays to the Christian crowd more than any other candidate I've seen. He plays us like a piano.

---

Literally not true.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is more popular with non-committed Christians and those who don't go to church much if at all.

While he has lower levels of approval among committed Christians.

Many serious Christians hold their nose and vote for Trump (because the other party has become a truly radical anti-religious party and anti-white racialist party)

But they do not love Trump and never will.

---

Trump did better with self-described white evangelicals than W, McCain, and Romney.

But my point was about Trump campaigning for that vote. He surrounded himself with evangelical preachers and other influential members like no candidates before him.

---

Couldn't never understand why in the hell would ministers support that heathen? I give you the all time evangelical clown,, Robert Jeffress. What an idiot.

---

1. Because Republican "Christians" like the Bush family have shown themselves to be wolves in sheep's clothing.


They do nothing for their base and just get us into more wars.


2. The Democratic Party is a functionally anti-religious party.


3. Christianity is in institutional decline in the USA. You are seeing with Trump the rise of the post-religious right.


If you hated the old Christian conservative coalition you are really gonna be afraid of the post-religious Right

---

You might want to do some more research on item 3. Recent trends are at odds with your statement.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/number-of-americans-attending-church-in-person-is-rising.html

---

I certainly hope that is true. But it might just be a small rebound effect from the Covid closures.

I guess we will find out.

But the trend line has been decline in Christianity and rise in "nones"

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

NATO is destabilizing, not the guy that took Crimea in 2014 and rolled 200k troops and tanks across the Ukraine border. He is just a nice guy...

---

And the CIA was involved in Ukraine long before that and helped launch a coup against the old government leading directly to a separatist war in the East and the secession/occupation of Crimea

They’re patting themselves on the back, and If you’re a serious person, you’ll applaud. They’ve played this beautifully from the start, just like they did with Operation Cyclone and in the lead to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

But if you’re a crank like me, you’ll wonder about… pic.twitter.com/KOgO4eINuq

— Lafayette Lee (@Partisan_O) February 26, 2024

Bumping this because of today’s NYT article on the CIA in Ukraine. Subs for the past 8 weeks have heard me talk about the tell for the CIA’s role in Ukraine from the known roles of the State Dept & the Pentagon in Ukraine — which means, by definition, CIA is active in the region. https://t.co/fw2MmG3MUY

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 26, 2024

---

Just because you keep repeating a lie, doesn't make it real, even though the social media echo chamber makes it seem so.

---

Wise words. You should heed them.

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

Yep.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

NATO is destabilizing, not the guy that took Crimea in 2014 and rolled 200k troops and tanks across the Ukraine border. He is just a nice guy...

---

And the CIA was involved in Ukraine long before that and helped launch a coup against the old government leading directly to a separatist war in the East and the secession/occupation of Crimea

They’re patting themselves on the back, and If you’re a serious person, you’ll applaud. They’ve played this beautifully from the start, just like they did with Operation Cyclone and in the lead to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

But if you’re a crank like me, you’ll wonder about… pic.twitter.com/KOgO4eINuq

— Lafayette Lee (@Partisan_O) February 26, 2024

Bumping this because of today’s NYT article on the CIA in Ukraine. Subs for the past 8 weeks have heard me talk about the tell for the CIA’s role in Ukraine from the known roles of the State Dept & the Pentagon in Ukraine — which means, by definition, CIA is active in the region. https://t.co/fw2MmG3MUY

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 26, 2024

---

Just because you keep repeating a lie, doesn't make it real, even though the social media echo chamber makes it seem so.

---

Wise words. You should heed them.

---

That's hilarious coming from you, simp.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

JUST IN: 🇺🇦 Ukraine will join NATO, Chief says. pic.twitter.com/6zVyjrTOEu

— BRICS (@BRICSinfo) February 24, 2024

---

nothing surprising about that, nor objectionable. WHEN is the key question. My timeframe is decades. I want to see political stability and institutionalization of western order.

Here's the irony for those who oppose Nato membership for Ukraine: The only way to avoid it is to restore the pre-2014 territorial integrity of Ukraine. The greater the level of dismemberment of Ukraine, the weaker the viability of argument of neutral status for the remnant state.

So. Choose your poison.

---

What about those of us who think that it's time NATO needs to be dismembered because it has turned into a destabilizing force for peace?

The pre-2014 territorial intergrity of Ukraine as a neutral state is off the table at this point.

What is on the table is Ukraine west of the Dniper as a military neutral non-NATO member that's free to trade with the EU. The harder NATO pushes to get what is left of Ukraine into NATO, the smaller what is left of Ukraine will be and the larger the DMZ will be.

---

Yep.

---

Not even close.

whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The @nytimes recently published a bombshell report that the CIA has been playing a much more significant role in Ukraine than previously thought.

According to the report, the CIA has been instrumental in Ukraine's wartime decision-making, establishing and financing high-tech… pic.twitter.com/3KkKW4nOJM

— Jeff Dornik (@jeffdornik) February 26, 2024

---

I have said as much in this thread in others. Only a fool could think Ukraine figured out how to stop the Russian invasion all on its own. Much intel liaison and military training going on post-2014. As well there should have been.

What we've done in Ukraine the past decade is a smashing foreign policy success, exponentially driving up the cost of Russian expansionism. Greatest return on federal spending in decades.

---

You still fail to understand that without what we were doing in Ukraine circa 2014 onward, there would have been no invasion. There still is no "Russian expansionism". Modern Russia has no interest in ruling Western Ukrainians, Poles, or Germans. They have an extremely high level of interest in preventing NATO munitions from falling on Russians going to this grocery store. I know that is a little hard to grasp given the utter lack of concern DC has for the lives of main street Americans.

Just yesterday one of our illustrious DC politicians said that the single data point of a Venezuelan illegal crossing the border, going to New York and then on to Athens, Georgia before getting a job with a fake green card at UGA and beating a coed to death shouldn't affect policy.

This is the same kind of vermin who will vote to degrade your standard of living by printing and sending billions to Ukraine to fight Russia for no good reason.

---

LOL. Russian propaganda BS wrapped in a tortilla of profound ignorance.

The thousand-year history of Russia is expansionism. It's what they do. They expand over their neighbors until they over-extend, then collapse back to core. Then the expansion starts all over again. Finding a way to succeed with what they have is not what they do. Oh no. It's far to easy to just go take stuff from others. So they've invaded all their neighbors over and over and over again. Thru it all, they remain culturally and economically backwards, politically unstable, yet arrogantly entitled to control everything that touches them for the purpose of preventing the sunlight of prosperity and liberty from killing the turd-eating fungus of autocracy that is the bedrock of Russian polity.

There is a reason why so many Russian neighbors want to join NATO!

---

Sounds like we just need to drop a nuclear bomb on Russia since peace is impossible.

Why not end their terror for good?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Excellent interview with American video journalist Patrick Lancaster on the liberation of Avdiivka:

---

LIBERATION?????!!!!!!

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, you are out there.

Realitybites said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

You think Trump is a conservative? Trump is for Trump. No different than the Russian Oligarchs. He is for Trump making money and having power. He is nobodies Champion but his own.

---

Trump isn't conservative. He is transactional. The same could be said about most politicians and business people. The question is, what are the guardrails to someone like that behaving in a purely transactional manner to the detriment of America? Love of country, religious faith, what exactly?

Someone like Biden has no guardrails. He is perfectly willing to watch the world burn for his self interest and will sign a deal with the devil to make it happen. You are living through that right now.

Despite not being a "conservative" or having a deep religious faith Trump's guardrail is a love of country. Given where most CEOs and politicians have none, that's a win, and a big one.

Frankly, "conservative" as a political term is a dead letter because forty years post Reagan there is nothing left to conserve. What you need is a disruptor candidate, an Anti-Obama.

RDS, Trump, and RFK are the only three this cycle that fit that description.

---

I think Trump's "love of country" is as convenient as his current wife. He throws whatever it takes out there to secure the commitment, but whatever winds of change that are blowing at some point down the road, in his favor, is where his 'heart' is at.