It was just as easy then. Anyone who paid attention could see it.FLBear5630 said:It is very easy 20 years later to say it was lies and a plotRedbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:You only seem to attribute negatives to the US..Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Ok, that is disingenuous. The CIA played a huge role in bringing down the Soviet Union.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Well, in 1990 Ukraine was in the Soviet Union. By 2014 they have a Democratic system,.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Redbrickbear said:Here is Nuland gushing on camera about the protests/coup in 2014....she really seem to be exited about the coup/protests in Kyiv.sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to explain how we planned the 2014 coup. Please answer the following:Sam Lowry said:We're supposed to let them do it, we're just not supposed to talk about it. That's the difference between a loyal American and a conspiracy theorist.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Who said I trusted them? I don't. Far from it.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:I hold my fellow Americans in much higher regardRedbrickbear said:sombear said:With due respect to all of my American bros and sis, any American who does not know that our intel works closely with intel in friendly countries and that Russia does the same and more probably should not be discussing or debating any of this.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
Another tweet from a guy who has no idea - or does and lies - how DC works.
Congress has known about our joint intel ops from day 1. So has the NYT by the way.
But did the American people?
Are most aware that the Goobers at the State Department (when not pushing abortion and LGBTQ ideology around the world) have been trying to overthrow regional governments around Russia since before 2014?
Are most Americans aware of the deep links DC has with Kyiv (we basically own it and direct it)?
We know Congress has no problems with having a corrupt Vassal state in Eastern Europe & fighting for it with Russia....are most Americas aware of that or interesting in that?
I think most Americans would in fact be shocked how deeply the CIA and our State Department is imbedded in other nations.
And I think they would be shocked that the CIA is sponsoring coups in their name.
Not if you think they want unaccountable spy agencies killing people and overthrowing governments in their name.
The American people are far more moral than the DC psychopaths you seem to love.
ps
25 years of failure in the middle east should have at least knocked some of the shine off your trust in our alphabet agencies and DC bureaucrats ...they have been constantly wrong and led us into disaster after disaster.
You just trust them on the war in Ukriane.
A pretty impressive record of failure over the past 25 years in the middle east...and now we are supposed to let them launch coups and fund proxy wars against a nuclear armed state on the doorstep of Europe?
What could go wrong....
"Explain in detail the in depth operations of the CIA and its secret classified programs in Eastern Europe"- Sombear
It will take decades for the operation specifics to come out....but one day it will.
Just like CIA operations in Latin America and Southeast Asia during the 1960s are now known.
Needless to say Nuland has already given us an broad outline....the State Department and CIA have admitting to pouring billions of taxpayer money in Ukraine to influence their political and economic system well before the 2014 coup/revolution.
One day it will be interesting to see what else they did in our name....
Can you at least provide a detailed theory that comports with the timeline and events?
She also then went to talk about how much money we had spent there...odd that she would mention that...almost like it had an effect.
Almost like our money was setting the stage for a change in regime there.
[Protests originally erupted in November 2013 after Yanukovych refused to sign the association agreement with the EU at a meeting of the Eastern Partnership.., choosing closer ties with Russia instead. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid. The EU was willing to offer 610 million ($838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer $15 billion, as well as cheaper gas prices. In addition, the EU demanded major changes to Ukraine's regulations and laws, but Russia did not stipulate regulatory or legal adjustment of such nature or scale.
Yanukovych was widely disliked in Ukraine's west but had support in the east and south, where his native Russian is much more widely spoken.]
So the State Department & CIA poured billions into the country...though various NGOs...and made deep inroads in the political and economic system. (no debate about that...they have admitted it)
Then protests break out right after the government in Kyiv signs a longer term partnership with Russia and agrees to let the Russians extend the Black sea naval base lease in Crimea out until the 2040s
Then DC spooks and apparatchiks celebrate the protests/coup like it was an operation they personally planned.
Its all very very interesting....
Like I said maybe one day in about 40 years we will get some declassified docs released to the public letting us know the behind the seen story.
I think it is really strange that you think trying to help a former Communist country establish and develop Democratic principles and institutions is a waste of money and some type of nephrarious activity.
How do you know what that money was spent on?
Do you trust the people that run the State Department and the CIA to be true guardians of "democratic principles"
Have you not been watching what they have been doing in the US over the last few years?
Spying on Presidential campaigns...demanding censorship of views they don't like...calling their domestic conservative enemies "Nazis"
Get real buddy....
People like John Brennan should never ever be trusted...these are malevolent evil people
Russia itself declared its independence and got out of the USSR...so lets no quite give the CIA credit for brining Ukraine out of the Soviet Union.
And Ukraine has never been much of a democracy since its independence.
It constantly has ranked as one of the most corrupt countries on earth (economically and politically)
Its was ruled by mostly pro-Russia types and since 2014 by pro-Western ones.
And during that time plenty of bans on political parties, media, and independent voices
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799
If the CIA and State Department were really trying to install "democratic values" (which they almost certainly were not) then we can all admit they failed in a speculator fashion....the place as been an corrupt mud pit and economic basket case.
The terrible Soviet economic system was one of the main drivers of brining down the USSR.
And the precipitating event that lead to the full break up of the Union was the failed coup launch in August of 1991
Are you trying to make the crazy argument that the CIA made the Soviet Union engage in a terrible communist economic system and that the CIA planned the August Coup of 1991 which lead to the end of the USSR?
[The unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. Planned by hard-line Communists, the coup diminished Gorbachev's power and propelled Yeltsin and the democratic forces to the forefront of Soviet and Russian politics.
On 20 August, the Russian SFSR was scheduled to sign a New Union Treaty that would have converted the Soviet Union into a federation of independent republics with a common president, foreign policy and military. It was strongly supported by the Central Asian republics, which needed the economic advantages of a common market to prosper...
Thousands of Muscovites came out to defend the White House (the Russian Federation's parliament and Yeltsin's office), the symbolic seat of Russian sovereignty at the time. The organizers of the coup tried but ultimately failed to arrest Yeltsin, who rallied opposition to the coup by making speeches from atop a tank.
After three days, on 21 August 1991, the coup collapsed.
The Soviet Union collapsed with dramatic speed in the last quarter of 1991. Between August and December, 10 republics seceded from the union, including the Russian SFSR, largely out of fear of another coup.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union
I think you have failed to make a distinction between the regime that rules in DC and the American people and States.
You understand they are not the same thing right?
And if you think DC has earned trust then you really are deep into the propaganda
Earned our trust? What has the US done not to be trusted?
What you don't get is there is no separation between the American people and DC.
You just forgot the lies that got us into the Iraq war huh?
And yes there is a difference between the Federal government in DC and the people (and States)
Can't believe you would even say something like that….
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 4 min ago by Bear8084
Doc Holliday said:
Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?
Recent polling shows 78% of Americans support Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why you're in the 22%?
sombear said:Doc Holliday said:
Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?
Recent polling shows 78% of Americans support Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why you're in the 22%?
Because he has thought about the issues and is not as susceptible to propaganda coming out of DC and it's media complex?
Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Doc Holliday said:
Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?
Recent polling shows 78% of Americans support Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why you're in the 22%?
Because he has thought about the issues and is not as susceptible to propaganda coming out of DC and its media complex?
Y'all are the chosen few!
The majority is almost always wrong statistically.sombear said:Doc Holliday said:
Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?
Recent polling shows 78% of Americans support Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why you're in the 22%?
If your POV is only "Russia is bad and must be defeated at all costs" then you don't open yourself up to questioning anything else.
The majority puts their faith in a lot of things that end up being wrong.
sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Doc Holliday said:
Have you guys ever questioned why you're in lockstep support with democrats and radical leftists over supporting this war?
Recent polling shows 78% of Americans support Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why you're in the 22%?
Because he has thought about the issues and is not as susceptible to propaganda coming out of DC and its media complex?
Y'all are the chosen few!
I think there is more than a few who question our involvement in this bloody war on the other side of the world.
Just off the top of my head I don't know a single person out in the real world who wants us involved with this war and I have never seen a real life person flying a Ukrainian flag.
Not sure where you live but in my American middle class 100,000 person city no one wants this war or trusts DC
Maybe things are different where you are?
Nikki Haley went on Meet the Press this morning to attack Republicans for not doing enough for Ukraine (even though the vast majority of them have supported and continue to support Biden's policy of sending billions).
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 3, 2024
She urged support for Biden's demand for billions more. https://t.co/iw1FMy3plr
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular. It's mixed out here for sure, but I don't hear the Russian propaganda even from folks who don't want us involved. They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Most of these folks also are very much rooting for Ukraine and respect the hell out of their fight. They also know the kind of evil that is Putin.
Most of these folks also are very much rooting for Ukraine and respect the hell out of their fight. They also know the kind of evil that is Putin.
Spoken like someone that has never had to generate projections, data or make an inference weighing risk and reward.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:All that you have shown is that Sadaam's henchmen said they had no WMDs and that Bush didn't have that information….Redbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:
image from salon as source. lmao
You like Newsweek better comrade?
So you admit the intelligence agencies you love were wrong and incompetent?
[Powell's presentation was forceful, seemingly exhaustive and had the effect of cinching the US case for preemptive war against Iraq before the international community.
"What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence," Powell told the Security Council.
But it was not true. The underlying intelligence was false.
Years later, confronted with the facts, Powell was forced to acknowledge that his UN presentation, painstakingly prepared across several days by the CIA, was wrong.
"It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong," said Powell]
You make decisions with the best information available. And I do love our military and intelligence Agencies, they put their lives on the line so people like you can call them incompetent without worry of being targeted. So, the answer is yes. I do love our Agencies that try to keep us safe. I served long enough to know the risk is very real. Even REMFs, to quote some people on this site, put their lives on the line. A double malfunction for an airborne cook ends up with the same as an infantryman, dead. A missile doesn't delineate between a legal specialist and a tanker. A source getting information to the CIA can end up just as dead as a SEAL. It is all connected and they all play a role.
Whether you think it is of value or if they are incompetent doesn't lower the risk the people in those Nations took to get that information. How quickly we forget, the Iraq Invasion occurred 2 years after 911. The risk of Sadaam having those weapons was determined to be much higher than in the 1990s. But, that doesn't matter right, 20 years later people like you can call those people out as incompetent.
Let's hear more about Russia's right to invade Ukraine and how it is our fault...
sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
Nikki knows this is just a campaign talking point. The money will continue to flow to Ukraine after the election regardless of who wins. Trump would get nothing done in 4 years without doing so.
At the risk of parsing your words too closely, I wouldn't say not interested. I think most realize our closest allies are and always have been the EUs, and our biggest adversary since WWII has been Russia. The EUs are unified in their concern about and opposition to Russia's aggression. I haven't heard many folks say we have no interest or they are not at all interested. It's more a balancing, which I completely understand.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
sombear said:At the risk of parsing your words too closely, I wouldn't say not interested. I think most realize our closest allies are and always have been the EUs….Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
Again….Ukraine is not in the EU or NATO.
Most Americans realize this and certainly do not trust the ruling class on DC to make good foreign policy choices.
Of course. I was making the point that most folks understand wanting to stick with our allies (Euro friends) who obviously have an interest in containing Russia. In this forum, I've always used "EUs" more informally referring to our Euro allies.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:At the risk of parsing your words too closely, I wouldn't say not interested. I think most realize our closest allies are and always have been the EUs….Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
Again….Ukraine is not in the EU or NATO.
Most Americans realize this and certainly do not trust the ruling class on DC to make good foreign policy choices.
sombear said:stick with our allies (Euro friends) who obviously have an interest in containing Russia.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:At the risk of parsing your words too closely, I wouldn't say not interested. I think most realize our closest allies are and always have been the EUs….Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
Again….Ukraine is not in the EU or NATO.
Most Americans realize this and certainly do not trust the ruling class on DC to make good foreign policy choices.
Where is Russian expanding to that they have not been before?
Right now it's DC messing around in places like Ukraine and Georgia….places we have never been before and have no vital national security interests.
Redbrickbear said:sombear said:stick with our allies (Euro friends) who obviously have an interest in containing Russia.Redbrickbear said:sombear said:At the risk of parsing your words too closely, I wouldn't say not interested. I think most realize our closest allies are and always have been the EUs….Redbrickbear said:sombear said:
I live in a mostly rural area in Montgomery County - maybe the most conservative extra-large county in Texas, and my area in particular…They stick to the argument that I understand and respect - not enough of an interest to spend money given our debt.
Sounds reasonable.
And another reason that DC should be very careful with their foolish proxy war in Eastern Europe.
No Americans want to fight this war for them….
Even in some of the most conservative and military friendly parts of the county the vast majority are not interested in this conflict.
Again….Ukraine is not in the EU or NATO.
Most Americans realize this and certainly do not trust the ruling class on DC to make good foreign policy choices.
Where is Russian expanding to that they have not been before?
Right now it's DC messing around in places like Ukraine and Georgia….places we have never been before and have no vital national security interests.
Two separate issues. One can recognize the Euro interests in containing Russia and still believe our interest is not strong enough. If I were a Russian neighbor, I would be very concerned. And the Euros are virtually unanimous in their concern and their strong support for Ukraine. Again, that does not necessarily mean we should join our friends. I understand both sides.
I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Such as? I mean give us the goods of the content that sparked the rebellion.Sam Lowry said:This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.ATL Bear said:The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.Sam Lowry said:Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.ATL Bear said:No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.Sam Lowry said:You know you're lying to yourself.ATL Bear said:Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.Sam Lowry said:So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?ATL Bear said:Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.Sam Lowry said:I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.sombear said:
I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.
And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.
I mean the first thing they did in Donetsk when the Russians showed up in 2014 was shut down Kyiv TV and replace it with the Russian state channel. They didn't change the pro Russian TV channels in the rest of Ukraine until they were on the brink of being invaded.
ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
When they get bored, when they tire of living in tents, a significant percentage of them will resort to crime.
Our law enforcement officers are already noticing a pattern within these sanctuary areas. But their voices are being ignored.
Do you wake up every morning and decide to either brush your teeth or take a shower?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
When they get bored, when they tire of living in tents, a significant percentage of them will resort to crime.
Our law enforcement officers are already noticing a pattern within these sanctuary areas. But their voices are being ignored.
KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
.
I am genuinely interested in how bringing in millions of unskilled males from the 3rd world makes the U.S. stronger or makes the lives of average Americans better….
If you wanted to invade Ukraine you could use them as cannon fodder to keep your primary population contentRedbrickbear said:KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
.
I am genuinely interested in how bringing in millions of unskilled males from the 3rd world makes the U.S. stronger or makes the lives of average Americans better….
When, not if, these millions of illegals organize..............ron.reagan said:If you wanted to invade Ukraine you could use them as cannon fodder to keep your primary population contentRedbrickbear said:KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
.
I am genuinely interested in how bringing in millions of unskilled males from the 3rd world makes the U.S. stronger or makes the lives of average Americans better….
it will be you and yours that will be cannon fodder.
Do you ever attempt to think; or are childish little one liners all you've got ?ron.reagan said:Do you wake up every morning and decide to either brush your teeth or take a shower?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
When they get bored, when they tire of living in tents, a significant percentage of them will resort to crime.
Our law enforcement officers are already noticing a pattern within these sanctuary areas. But their voices are being ignored.
The Urkranine army is getting soundly beaten. Tens of thousands of their solders are dead. Hundreds of thousands are wounded.
Over 12 MILLION Ukranians have abandoned their country.
The Russians still dominate the air cover and have hundreds of thousands of troops in reserve.
Despite billions in aid; Ukranian forces still claim a lack of weapons and ammunition. Their best troops are already dead or cripples.
But tell us again how Ukraine is 'winning'. In reality Ukraine better ask for a cease fire before their entire army melts away.
Meanwhile over 4 million illegals have entered our country since your boy bacame president.
Really think we need an extra 2-3 million fruit pickers every year ?
Who are going to train and employ these surplus millions EVERY YEAR ?
Your Mommy and Daddy ?
If one presumes they will never be deported and are allowed to stay & find private sector employment, then we have 8M extra people paying Social Security taxes, which is a pretty big deal given our demographics and the growth of the entitlement.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
.
I am genuinely interested in how bringing in millions of unskilled males from the 3rd world makes the U.S. stronger or makes the lives of average Americans better….
That's just for starters. And make no mistake, that is the plan.
whiterock said:If one presumes they will never be deported and are allowed to stay & find private sector employment, then we have 8M extra people paying Social Security taxes, which is a pretty big deal given our demographics and the growth of the entitlement.Redbrickbear said:KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:I live in Ukraine and hear Russian every day.
— Jimmy Rushton (@JimmySecUK) March 3, 2024
I spent three days last week touring the front-line with a Russian speaking Ukrainian from Luhansk (who doesn’t speak any Ukrainian) and is the most patriotic man I’ve ever met.
The suggestion Russian is banned here is ludicrous.
Very jealous of Ukraine for having so many patriots willing to give their life to the country while we have an ever growing number of people wanting to run away from conflict and the first sign of danger.
Danger is coming to you and all Americans with the admission of MILLIONS of unskilled illegals.
The vast majority of whom are single males.
.
I am genuinely interested in how bringing in millions of unskilled males from the 3rd world makes the U.S. stronger or makes the lives of average Americans better….
That's just for starters. And make no mistake, that is the plan.
I can see that…but what if a majority of them never work?
That would be my question.
For instance in Germany almost 70% of the Syrians they let in still don't have jobs almost a decade later.
Transcripts or it didn't happen…LOL. And if they existed you'd just deny them too.ATL Bear said:Such as? I mean give us the goods of the content that sparked the rebellion.Sam Lowry said:This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.ATL Bear said:The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.Sam Lowry said:Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.ATL Bear said:No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.Sam Lowry said:You know you're lying to yourself.ATL Bear said:Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.Sam Lowry said:So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?ATL Bear said:Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.Sam Lowry said:I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.sombear said:
I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.
And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.
I mean the first thing they did in Donetsk when the Russians showed up in 2014 was shut down Kyiv TV and replace it with the Russian state channel. They didn't change the pro Russian TV channels in the rest of Ukraine until they were on the brink of being invaded.
So you literally have no actual support of your claim. I mean for it to be considered a coup mechanism, it at least has to enter gray-zone warfare level of conflict, not just general ideological competition, or even favorable position propaganda or advocacy. Gobs of Russian deep fakes, coordinated disinformation campaigns, armed agents, political candidate insertions, take over of broadcasting facilities, etc. have all been identified and made public. You've presented nothing more than supposition after supposition.Sam Lowry said:Transcripts or it didn't happen…LOL. And if they existed you'd just deny them too.ATL Bear said:Such as? I mean give us the goods of the content that sparked the rebellion.Sam Lowry said:This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.ATL Bear said:The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.Sam Lowry said:Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.ATL Bear said:No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.Sam Lowry said:You know you're lying to yourself.ATL Bear said:Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.Sam Lowry said:So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?ATL Bear said:Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.Sam Lowry said:I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.sombear said:
I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.
And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.
I mean the first thing they did in Donetsk when the Russians showed up in 2014 was shut down Kyiv TV and replace it with the Russian state channel. They didn't change the pro Russian TV channels in the rest of Ukraine until they were on the brink of being invaded.
It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Western legacy media reporting on this war is as good as how they report on everything...so its not trustworthy.ATL Bear said:This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Hell look at them try to blame crap on Musk:
American trying to blame its total humiliation by Russia on musk, lol. These people couldn’t win a war against Greenland pic.twitter.com/vdsJyZaLHC
— Adam Townsend (@adamscrabble) September 12, 2023
Real reporting on this war isn't from Russia sources or US media sources. You can get good insight on what's really going on by looking at economic/financial US data.
Sorry, that's not a good source. But then I wasn't really being facetious about Cernovich. Guy parrots Russian propaganda too much.Doc Holliday said:Western legacy media reporting on this war is as good as how they report on everything...so its not trustworthy.ATL Bear said:This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Hell look at them try to blame crap on Musk:American trying to blame its total humiliation by Russia on musk, lol. These people couldn’t win a war against Greenland pic.twitter.com/vdsJyZaLHC
— Adam Townsend (@adamscrabble) September 12, 2023
Real reporting on this war isn't from Russia sources or US media sources. You can get good insight on what's really going on by looking at economic/financial US data.
https://sputnikglobe.com/20220909/weak-us-workforce-risks-defense-industrys-ability-to-supply-arms-to-allies---reports-1100620286.html
This of course doesn't match the reality of massive production increases that actually have occurred at a greater pace than anticipated.
https://www.defenseone.com/business/2023/11/race-make-artillery-shells-us-eu-see-different-results/392288/
ATL Bear said:This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Again, just because you do not like what someone else is saying...does NOT mean they are getting paid by the big bad russkies
Who needs to be paid when social media allows it to be done for free? We are the ultimate disinformation vehicle because we (fortunately) don't have any guardrails on our speech. But we also live in echo chambers easily manipulated.Redbrickbear said:ATL Bear said:This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Again, just because you do not like what someone else is saying...does NOT mean they are getting paid by the big bad russkies
And it wasn't about like/dislike. It was counter to the facts.
BTW, when are one of you going to produce something tangible about the U.S. engineering the Ukraine coup? It would be a nice parting gift to the Nuland resignation.
ATL Bear said:This guy must moonlight for TASS or Sputnik News.Doc Holliday said:It’d have been better to have no war in Ukraine.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) March 5, 2024
The useful information obtained is that the US cannot win a real war against a nuclear power.
It was a stress test. We failed miserably. We can’t even produce artillery.
In a different world, we would get to fixing it.
Take a close look at the US army.
Zero chance it could defeat Russia or China.