no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 1 day ago by whiterock
J.R. said:no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Billions of dollars we don't possess doesn't replace Ukraine's dead soldiers .
Their army is on the verge of collapse . Got 18 months left at best .
So the only option is a negotiated settlement or replacing dead Ukrainian soldiers with NATO ground troops.
And the American people would NEVER support that.
A reality every DC war hawk knows .
This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.
As long as Nato keeps sending Ammo, Ukrainians will keep killing Russians, who are in a condition not much better than the Ukrainians.....KaiBear said:whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.A
Wars of attrition are ugly things.
whiterock said:As long as Nato keeps sending Ammo, Ukrainians will keep killing Russians, who are in a condition not much better than the Ukrainians.....KaiBear said:whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.A
Wars of attrition are ugly things.
No it's just entertainment to goofs like you.
A bloodletting that Biden help bring on .
And money can NOT replace dead soldiers .
Russia has far deeper reserves. Far deeper pools of manpower.
This war is either going to end via a diplomatic settlement or a rapid collapse of the Ukrainian army within the next 14 months.
I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
KaiBear said:whiterock said:As long as Nato keeps sending Ammo, Ukrainians will keep killing Russians, who are in a condition not much better than the Ukrainians.....KaiBear said:whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.A
Wars of attrition are ugly things.
No it's just entertainment to goofs like you.
I have a daughter on the front-line of the conflict and would very much prefer she avoid combat, which will be far less likely if we push ahead and help Ukraine finish the job.
A bloodletting that Biden help bring on.
Agreed.
And money can NOT replace dead soldiers.
That is a reciprocal equation. Russia is losing soldiers at a rate greater than their numerical advantage.
Russia has far deeper reserves. Far deeper pools of manpower.
Which they cannot tap due to having to defend a far larger geographic footprint, AND to avoid political destabilization in core Russian demographic areas.
This war is either going to end via a diplomatic settlement or a rapid of the Ukrainian army within the next 14 months.
14 months is a good guess. I would put it closer to 24 months. Everyone wants to see what Trump will do. Those who think he's going to hand Ukraine over to Putin are going to be sorely disappointed.
That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
If that happens, I can see a DMZ similar to Korea. There has to be a buffer or some natural boundary or Putin will just roll tanks. I would also say NATO/EU is a non-negotiable. Ukraine needs to have a legitimate path forward to a real 1st world nation (Notice I didn't say democracy, as that just causes arguments). Without NATO defense and EU economy, Ukraine will remain a vassal state like Moldovia, Belarus, etc...whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
whiterock said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:As long as Nato keeps sending Ammo, Ukrainians will keep killing Russians, who are in a condition not much better than the Ukrainians.....KaiBear said:whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.A
Wars of attrition are ugly things.
No it's just entertainment to goofs like you.
I have a daughter on the front-line of the conflict and would very much prefer she avoid combat, which will be far less likely if we push ahead and help Ukraine finish the job.
A bloodletting that Biden help bring on.
Agreed.
And money can NOT replace dead soldiers.
That is a reciprocal equation. Russia is losing soldiers at a rate greater than their numerical advantage.
Russia has far deeper reserves. Far deeper pools of manpower.
Which they cannot tap due to having to defend a far larger geographic footprint, AND to avoid political destabilization in core Russian demographic areas.
This war is either going to end via a diplomatic settlement or a rapid of the Ukrainian army within the next 14 months.
14 months is a good guess. I would put it closer to 24 months. Everyone wants to see what Trump will do. Those who think he's going to hand Ukraine over to Putin are going to be sorely disappointed.
Bull****
How exactly do you have a daughter on the 'front line' of the Russia Ukraine battlefield ?
Dude
Trump is not going to be president .
Why would the Dems ' steal the election' in 2020 only to play nice in 2024 ?
Besides Trump is continually verbally self destructive.
He's going to scare the living **** out of independent voters right into Biden's camp.
whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
A coup mechanism is any mechanism that one uses to accomplish a coup. The rest is just you trying to define away the issue.ATL Bear said:So you literally have no actual support of your claim. I mean for it to be considered a coup mechanism, it at least has to enter gray-zone warfare level of conflict, not just general ideological competition, or even favorable position propaganda or advocacy. Gobs of Russian deep fakes, coordinated disinformation campaigns, armed agents, political candidate insertions, take over of broadcasting facilities, etc. have all been identified and made public. You've presented nothing more than supposition after supposition.Sam Lowry said:Transcripts or it didn't happen…LOL. And if they existed you'd just deny them too.ATL Bear said:Such as? I mean give us the goods of the content that sparked the rebellion.Sam Lowry said:This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.ATL Bear said:The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.Sam Lowry said:Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.ATL Bear said:No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.Sam Lowry said:You know you're lying to yourself.ATL Bear said:Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.Sam Lowry said:So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?ATL Bear said:Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.Sam Lowry said:I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.sombear said:
I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.
And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.
I mean the first thing they did in Donetsk when the Russians showed up in 2014 was shut down Kyiv TV and replace it with the Russian state channel. They didn't change the pro Russian TV channels in the rest of Ukraine until they were on the brink of being invaded.
I've drawn you a straight line from our early support of right-wing extremists, to their resurgence after the Cold War with our help, to their key role in Maidan. Nuland met with the leader of Svoboda in December 2013 (she wasn't just there to serve sandwiches) and again a week before the government collapsed. We don't have to speculate about why they met because we have direct evidence in the form of her taped conversation. We know that, contrary to the agreement with Yanukovych, the US was pushing for total regime change with the "Big Three" as a replacement. This was far from mere advocacy, considering how dependent these would-be rulers were on our support. It was a signal of what we would do going forward and what kind of success they could expect if they kept the pressure on.
This is an exceedingly rare and fascinating article in French magazine Marianne, who got access to "several confidential defense reports" from the French army on the situation in Ukraine: https://t.co/awu9xCEISP
— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) March 12, 2024
The situation looks exceedingly bleak for Ukraine, which might in…
- The reports Marianne consulted write that Ukraine's counter-offensive "gradually bogged down in mud and blood and did not result in any strategic gain" and that its planning, conceived by Kiev and Western general staffs, turned out to be "disastrous."
- "The Russian army is today the 'tactical and technical' reference for thinking and implementing the defensive mode," writes the report.
- The reports also highlight that contrary to Ukraine "the Russians have managed their reserve troops well, to ensure operational endurance." According to this document, Moscow reinforces its units before they are completely worn out, mixes recruits with experienced troops, ensures regular rest periods in the rear... and "always had a coherent reserve force to manage unforeseen events."
- "To date, the Ukrainian general staff does not have a critical mass of land forces capable of inter-arms maneuver at the corps level capable of challenging their Russian counterparts to break through its defensive line," concludes this confidential defense report, according to which "the gravest error of analysis and judgment would be to continue to seek exclusively military solutions to stop the hostilities". A French officer summarizes: "It is clear, given the forces present, that Ukraine cannot win this war militarily."
- "Zelensky would need 35,000 men per month, he's not recruiting half of that, while Putin draws from a pool of 30,000 volunteers per month," observes a military officer returned from Kiev. In terms of equipment, the balance is just as unbalanced: the failed offensive of 2023 "tactically destroyed" half of Kiev's 12 combat brigades.
- On February 17, Kiev had to abandon the city of Avdiivka, in the northern suburbs of Donetsk, which had until then been a fortified stronghold. Ukrainian defenses...lost more than 1,000 men per day. "The decision to retreat by the Ukrainian armed forces was a surprise," notes this last report, highlighting "its suddenness and lack of preparation," fearing that this choice was "more endured than decided by the Ukrainian command," suggesting a possible onset of "disarray."
- "The Ukrainian armed forces have tactically shown that they do not possess the human and material capabilities...to hold a sector of the front that is subjected to the assailant's effort," continues the document. "The Ukrainian failure in Avdiivka shows that, despite the emergency deployment of an 'elite' brigade the 3rd Azov Air Assault Brigade , Kiev is not capable of locally restoring a sector of the front that collapses," alerts this last report.
- According to this analysis, after two years of war, Russian forces have thus shown their ability to "develop operational endurance" that allows them to wage "a slow and long-intensity war based on the continuous attrition of the Ukrainian army."
Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
The mafia made a living off of people as gullible as you areRedbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
ron.reagan said:The mafia made a living off of people as gullible as you areRedbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
And here I thought they made a living running prostitution rings, loan sharking, having gambling dens, sports books, no-show jobs, and protection rackets?
I did not think "gullibility" had much to do with it.
are you kidding? We don't have the $. BS. Give Ukraine what they need. **** Israel.KaiBear said:J.R. said:no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Billions of dollars we don't possess doesn't replace Ukraine's dead soldiers .
Their army is on the verge of collapse . Got 18 months left at best .
So the only option is a negotiated settlement or replacing dead Ukrainian soldiers with NATO ground troops.
And the American people would NEVER support that.
A reality every DC war hawk knows
I think you termed it correctly. "verbally self destructive". He is his own worst enemy and it all has to do with his amazingly frighting narcism .KaiBear said:whiterock said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:As long as Nato keeps sending Ammo, Ukrainians will keep killing Russians, who are in a condition not much better than the Ukrainians.....KaiBear said:whiterock said:This war can go on for years, and likely will until well after Trump is inaugurated. And if Trump does indeed follow up on his statement about a "lend/lease" to Ukraine, Russia will be in a world of hurt. They are stretched to the breaking point. We start building bases in Finland and Sweden, increasing troop deployments to the Baltics, and loading Ukraine up on arty rounds & long-range missiles....Russia will have to sue for peace.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other.
The manicheanism of "zero/any" renders this statement flatly untrue. Not true of Finland or Sweden. Not true of the Baltics. Nor is it true of Poland, or Romania. And the numbers jump if we talk about further Russian encroachments.
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
again, more manicheanism. The militaries are smaller than they should be, and in aggregate the level of readiness is subpar, but there are several nations who have very capable armies that are far more capable than the Russians.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Ukraine is running out of ammo. They have enough men to soldier on for years.
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
Flatly untrue. Russia is sending 70-year old tanks to the front, borrowing-back ammo it gave to North Korea 70 years ago. Russia is unable to replace mechanized vehicles or arty tubes at the rate it's burning it up.
The false dilemma you've created here is one of expectations - that economic sanctions which do not crater a country's eonomy have no value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sanctions drive up the cost of doing business, and afford diplomats more things to negotiate over. They can cripple key sectors of the economy, and have done so specifically on weapons & ordnance to great effect.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Russia is making small, tactical gains in some sectors, after having suffered several months of tactical losses in some sectors, which was preceded by a prior period of some tactical gains, which of course was prefaced by some significant tactical losses.
You are nuts.
Ukraine can't endure continued infrastructure and manpower losses for years .
They are barely holding on now.
And your hero Trump is never going to be president again.
His latest political gaffe will be followed by even more erratic ones as Election Day approaches.A
Wars of attrition are ugly things.
No it's just entertainment to goofs like you.
I have a daughter on the front-line of the conflict and would very much prefer she avoid combat, which will be far less likely if we push ahead and help Ukraine finish the job.
A bloodletting that Biden help bring on.
Agreed.
And money can NOT replace dead soldiers.
That is a reciprocal equation. Russia is losing soldiers at a rate greater than their numerical advantage.
Russia has far deeper reserves. Far deeper pools of manpower.
Which they cannot tap due to having to defend a far larger geographic footprint, AND to avoid political destabilization in core Russian demographic areas.
This war is either going to end via a diplomatic settlement or a rapid of the Ukrainian army within the next 14 months.
14 months is a good guess. I would put it closer to 24 months. Everyone wants to see what Trump will do. Those who think he's going to hand Ukraine over to Putin are going to be sorely disappointed.
Bull****
How exactly do you have a daughter on the 'front line' of the Russia Ukraine battlefield ?
Dude
Trump is not going to be president .
Why would the Dems ' steal the election' in 2020 only to play nice in 2024 ?
Besides Trump is continually verbally self destructive.
He's going to scare the living **** out of independent voters right into Biden's camp.
This is a complete fabrication and false alignment of events. It's not even worth rehashing because I've dealt with each point independently, and shown where it doesn't fit with the events. Now you're parsing the Nuland phone call, which was a Russian intel op by the way, and going hook line and sinker there with wild inferences.Sam Lowry said:A coup mechanism is any mechanism that one uses to accomplish a coup. The rest is just you trying to define away the issue.ATL Bear said:So you literally have no actual support of your claim. I mean for it to be considered a coup mechanism, it at least has to enter gray-zone warfare level of conflict, not just general ideological competition, or even favorable position propaganda or advocacy. Gobs of Russian deep fakes, coordinated disinformation campaigns, armed agents, political candidate insertions, take over of broadcasting facilities, etc. have all been identified and made public. You've presented nothing more than supposition after supposition.Sam Lowry said:Transcripts or it didn't happen…LOL. And if they existed you'd just deny them too.ATL Bear said:Such as? I mean give us the goods of the content that sparked the rebellion.Sam Lowry said:This makes no sense. No one is saying that all webcasts are "coup mechanisms." Only the ones that, you know, work in support of a coup.ATL Bear said:The lie is framing that as some sort of coup mechanism. Did you know there were multiple channels of similar style operating in Ukraine for years prior? Hell, Yanukovych even did interviews on them. This is absolutely laughable association.Sam Lowry said:Again that is just a straight up lie. As one of many examples, I called attention to the online TV channel that Pyatt helped launch before the coup and showed you exactly how it fit the timeline. You're free to ignore the evidence, but please don't deliberately misrepresent it.ATL Bear said:No one's lying to themselves but you Sam. You still haven't provided any credible evidence to your point. It doesn't even match up with on ground events or timelines. It is the equivalent of circumstantial here say.Sam Lowry said:You know you're lying to yourself.ATL Bear said:Its because I did read the links that I know it doesn't support what you're saying and is gross innuendo. In fact I thought we spent most of the time on your (and Putin's) Nazi fetish.Sam Lowry said:So when you said you took all that time to read the links, that wasn't true?ATL Bear said:Literally no explanation or support, but keep grinding Sam.Sam Lowry said:I've explained it in fairly good detail, and with sources. You and ATL are waiting for the Hollywood version, which we all know you're not going to get.sombear said:
I've asked the generic question several times without response, so trying very straightforward specific questions. But I'm not holding my breath on answers.
And we spent most of the time on the Nazi thing because you and Mothra wouldn't let it go. I always said NATO was the real issue.
I mean the first thing they did in Donetsk when the Russians showed up in 2014 was shut down Kyiv TV and replace it with the Russian state channel. They didn't change the pro Russian TV channels in the rest of Ukraine until they were on the brink of being invaded.
I've drawn you a straight line from our early support of right-wing extremists, to their resurgence after the Cold War with our help, to their key role in Maidan. Nuland met with the leader of Svoboda in December 2013 (she wasn't just there to serve sandwiches) and again a week before the government collapsed. We don't have to speculate about why they met because we have direct evidence in the form of her taped conversation. We know that, contrary to the agreement with Yanukovych, the US was pushing for total regime change with the "Big Three" as a replacement. This was far from mere advocacy, considering how dependent these would-be rulers were on our support. It was a signal of what we would do going forward and what kind of success they could expect if they kept the pressure on.
Not every counter policy opinion or effort is a coup mechanism.
Amusing to read your childish rants. The majority of Russian people obviously do not agree with your inexperienced assessment of ' watching their homeland get bombed and raped'.ron.reagan said:Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
In reality Putin is more popular with his people than Biden is with ours .
You really need to upgrade the quality of your recreational narcotics. Maybe mommy and daddy will increase your stipend.
I'm not sure I could come up with a list that targets gullible people more exclusively than that.Redbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:The mafia made a living off of people as gullible as you areRedbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
And here I thought they made a living running prostitution rings, loan sharking, having gambling dens, sports books, no-show jobs, and protection rackets?
I did not think "gullibility" had much to do with it.
We aren't talking about Russians living in Russia. I don't think you use so many logical fallacies on purpose but rather just generally confused about most things.KaiBear said:Amusing to read your childish rants. The majority of Russian people obviously do not agree with your inexperienced assessment of ' watching their homeland get bombed and raped'.ron.reagan said:Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
In reality Putin is more popular with his people than Biden is with ours .
You really need to upgrade the quality of your recreational narcotics. Maybe mommy and daddy will increase your stipend.
I'm not the one that needs a mommy and daddy nanny state to tell me not to do drugs. I make that choice for myself.
We are over 32 trillion in debt.J.R. said:are you kidding? We don't have the $. BS. Give Ukraine what they need. **** Israel.KaiBear said:J.R. said:no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Billions of dollars we don't possess doesn't replace Ukraine's dead soldiers .
Their army is on the verge of collapse . Got 18 months left at best .
So the only option is a negotiated settlement or replacing dead Ukrainian soldiers with NATO ground troops.
And the American people would NEVER support that.
A reality every DC war hawk knows
Approximately 30% of all federal revenue is required to just pay the interest .
No business could survive such a business model .
Our economy won't either.
'**** Israel ' ?
LOL
Your girlfriend's certainly have 'motivated' you.
Based on your erratic posting history I doubt you can tie your own shoelaces without parental supervision.ron.reagan said:We aren't talking about Russians living in Russia.KaiBear said:Amusing to read your childish rants. The majority of Russian people obviously do not agree with your inexperienced assessment of ' watching their homeland get bombed and raped'.ron.reagan said:Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
In reality Putin is more popular with his people than Biden is with ours .
You really need to upgrade the quality of your recreational narcotics. Maybe mommy and daddy will increase your stipend.
I'm not the one that needs a mommy and daddy nanny state to tell me not to do drugs. I make that choice for myself.
My point should have been obvious. As long as Putin is popular in Mother Russia ( and he is most certainly is ) the war in Ukraine will continue.
Despite your ridiculous hyperbole .
Meanwhile Putin is winning his war, Ukraine desperately needs a way out of it, and your boy Biden is going to spend another 100 billion before the final surrender documents are drawn up.
Best case Ukraine will lose thousands of square miles of their eastern territory, the Ukrainian president will be forced to abdicate to one of his newly aquired mansions in the US and Ukraine will agree formally to never join NATO.
Hundreds of billions of dollars lost, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians killed, over 12 million Ukrainians displaced throughout Europe ........and all for nothing.
First, you are making a huge mistake comparing a Government to a Business. A Government is not a Business nor should it operate under the same principles. Same are your personal finances are different from a Business and if you did things Personally that a Business can you would never get another loan!KaiBear said:We are over 32 trillion in debt.J.R. said:are you kidding? We don't have the $. BS. Give Ukraine what they need. **** Israel.KaiBear said:J.R. said:no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Billions of dollars we don't possess doesn't replace Ukraine's dead soldiers .
Their army is on the verge of collapse . Got 18 months left at best .
So the only option is a negotiated settlement or replacing dead Ukrainian soldiers with NATO ground troops.
And the American people would NEVER support that.
A reality every DC war hawk knows
Approximately 30% of all federal revenue is required to just pay the interest .
No business could survive such a business model .
Our economy won't either.
'**** Israel ' ?
LOL
Your girlfriend's certainly have 'motivated' you.
Agree or Not, some believe Modern Monetary Theory, Keynesian Economics believe that Federal debt is a stimulus.
I am more conservative, but I understand where they are coming from. We are getting to see if it really works as well as the theory.
The Arguments For and Against Higher Government Debt Levels | Builder Magazine (builderonline.com)
ron.reagan said:I'm not sure I could come up with a list that targets gullible people more exclusively than that.Redbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:The mafia made a living off of people as gullible as you areRedbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
And here I thought they made a living running prostitution rings, loan sharking, having gambling dens, sports books, no-show jobs, and protection rackets?
I did not think "gullibility" had much to do with it.
One that you left off is supper gullible Dallas guys who think the big bad russkies can roll their tanks into Poland.
Or that poorly trained russian conscripts are any threat to our powerful Western European allies.
The lesson you are trying to get across is that military strength doesn't change over time or that we shouldn't take national security seriously?Redbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:I'm not sure I could come up with a list that targets gullible people more exclusively than that.Redbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:The mafia made a living off of people as gullible as you areRedbrickbear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Well let's try and it out and see.
A two ukriane solution is better than a never ending bloody war.
One that has already killed and wounded hundreds of thousands
And here I thought they made a living running prostitution rings, loan sharking, having gambling dens, sports books, no-show jobs, and protection rackets?
I did not think "gullibility" had much to do with it.
One that you left off is supper gullible Dallas guys who think the big bad russkies can roll their tanks into Poland.
Or that poorly trained russian conscripts are any threat to our powerful Western European allies.
Considering your age I'm not sure Biden isn't your boy. Stop acting like you are a conservative when you need a nanny state.KaiBear said:Based on your erratic posting history I doubt you can tie your own shoelaces without parental supervision.ron.reagan said:We aren't talking about Russians living in Russia.KaiBear said:Amusing to read your childish rants. The majority of Russian people obviously do not agree with your inexperienced assessment of ' watching their homeland get bombed and raped'.ron.reagan said:Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
In reality Putin is more popular with his people than Biden is with ours .
You really need to upgrade the quality of your recreational narcotics. Maybe mommy and daddy will increase your stipend.
I'm not the one that needs a mommy and daddy nanny state to tell me not to do drugs. I make that choice for myself.
My point should have been obvious. As long as Putin is popular in Mother Russia ( and he is most certainly is ) the war in Ukraine will continue.
Despite your ridiculous hyperbole .
Meanwhile Putin is winning his war, Ukraine desperately needs a way out of it, and your boy Biden is going to spend another 100 billion before the final surrender documents are drawn up.
Best case Ukraine will lose thousands of square miles of their eastern territory, the Ukrainian president will be forced to abdicate to one of his newly aquired mansions in the US and Ukraine will agree formally to never join NATO.
Hundreds of billions of dollars lost, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians killed, over 12 million Ukrainians displaced throughout Europe ........and all for nothing.
FLBear5630 said:First, you are making a huge mistake comparing a Government to a Business. A Government is not a Business nor should it operate under the same principles. Same are your personal finances are different from a Business and if you did things Personally that a Business can you would never get another loan!KaiBear said:We are over 32 trillion in debt.J.R. said:are you kidding? We don't have the $. BS. Give Ukraine what they need. **** Israel.KaiBear said:J.R. said:no , **** that. we need to give Ukraine what they need to push them back and defeat them on Ukraine land. Eff Russia. If we don't , Baltics are next, followed by Poland. We cannot permit that. Where is the end? Putin needs to be neutered or killed.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Billions of dollars we don't possess doesn't replace Ukraine's dead soldiers .
Their army is on the verge of collapse . Got 18 months left at best .
So the only option is a negotiated settlement or replacing dead Ukrainian soldiers with NATO ground troops.
And the American people would NEVER support that.
A reality every DC war hawk knows
Approximately 30% of all federal revenue is required to just pay the interest .
No business could survive such a business model .
Our economy won't either.
'**** Israel ' ?
LOL
Your girlfriend's certainly have 'motivated' you.
Gotta luv the internet
ron.reagan said:Considering your age I'm not sure Biden isn't your boy. Stop acting like you are a conservative when you need a nanny state.KaiBear said:Based on your erratic posting history I doubt you can tie your own shoelaces without parental supervision.ron.reagan said:We aren't talking about Russians living in Russia.KaiBear said:Amusing to read your childish rants. The majority of Russian people obviously do not agree with your inexperienced assessment of ' watching their homeland get bombed and raped'.ron.reagan said:Your dementia is at an all time high today. What the hell does the Russian election have to do with Russians watching their homeland get bombed and raped by Putin?KaiBear said:ron.reagan said:If Russia actually won the war they wouldn't even be able to hold onto that area before they broke away as most of the Russians there want nothing to do with Putin.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:That would be a massive victory for Russia. Very generous, given status quo. Similarly, a return to pre-2014 borders would be a modest victory for Ukraine. Neither is likely, given status quo.FLBear5630 said:I do think that the solution will be splitting Ukraine at the Dnieper. But, the only way it works is if the Western Half is admitted to NATO and EU. Otherwise, just a matter of time before Emperor Putin comes for rest.KaiBear said:
NATO is a shell.
There is zero willingness of any of the NATO populations to fight and die for Ukraine or even other each other .
The combat readiness of almost every NATO country is non existent.
Ukraine is running out of resources; especially in manpower .
Meanwhile Russia's infrastructure has barely been touched .
The vaunted economic sanctions a complete joke.
By any measure Russia is winning this war and as a result Ukraine needs to reach an accord while they still can salvage their sovereignty.
Most likely outcome is something closer to current battle lines. Russia desperately needs a land bridge to Crimea. Kharkiv not so much.
Yea I don't see anyway a divided Ukriane comes into being.
I think you are correct about stalemate along current lines.
But a divided two Ukriane solution would make some sense
A Republic of Ukraine in the EU and NATO….a Ukrainian peoples republic aligned to Moscow
Putin just got elected for a 5th term by an overwhelming majority.
As the Russian people have always preferred a Stalin like strongman even if he was brutal.
And Ukraine has been under the thumb of the Russians for most of the last 300 years.
Looks as though that trend is destined to continue .
In reality Putin is more popular with his people than Biden is with ours .
You really need to upgrade the quality of your recreational narcotics. Maybe mommy and daddy will increase your stipend.
I'm not the one that needs a mommy and daddy nanny state to tell me not to do drugs. I make that choice for myself.
My point should have been obvious. As long as Putin is popular in Mother Russia ( and he is most certainly is ) the war in Ukraine will continue.
Despite your ridiculous hyperbole .
Meanwhile Putin is winning his war, Ukraine desperately needs a way out of it, and your boy Biden is going to spend another 100 billion before the final surrender documents are drawn up.
Best case Ukraine will lose thousands of square miles of their eastern territory, the Ukrainian president will be forced to abdicate to one of his newly aquired mansions in the US and Ukraine will agree formally to never join NATO.
Hundreds of billions of dollars lost, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians killed, over 12 million Ukrainians displaced throughout Europe ........and all for nothing.
If you mean a basic social safety net then that is actually Conservative.
Conservatives have long opposed massive tax sucking welfare states...not basic services and programs that help the middle and lower classes. Conservative nationalists actually care about their people and fellow countrymen
It was the old ultra-Conservative Junker Otto Von Bismarck who helped created the first social insurance program
[Germany became the first nation in the world to adopt an old-age social insurance program in 1889, designed by Germany's Chancellor, Otto von Bismarck. The idea was first put forward, at Bismarck's behest, in 1881 by Germany's Emperor, William the First, in a ground-breaking letter to the German Parliament. William wrote: ". . .those who are disabled from work by age and invalidity have a well-grounded claim to care from the state."
Bismarck was motivated to introduce social insurance in Germany both in order to promote the well-being of workers in order to keep the German economy operating at maximum efficiency, and to stave-off calls for more radical socialist alternatives. Despite his impeccable right-wing credentials...]
Childish quips is all you've got boy.
Along with a mountain of debt others aren't going to carry for you indefinitely.
Along with a mountain of debt others aren't going to carry for you indefinitely.