Why Are We in Ukraine?

185,082 Views | 4170 Replies | Last: 4 hrs ago by KaiBear
Doc Holliday
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sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?
Sam Lowry
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william said:


Whiterock does not appreciate being outed, sir.
Bear8084
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ron.reagan said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

It's totally insane giving tens of billions of dollars ( we don't actually possess ) to a country that has never been strategically or economically important to the United States.





That is a true statement. It just doesn't apply to Ukraine.



Our 'representatives' must have just given 60 BILLION dollars to someone else then.

But hey it's just paper anyway right ? Won't increase our debt, won't contribute to inflation.

And God knows we don't have any needs here in the US.

Let's act as if WW1 , WW2 , Korea, Vietnam , Iraq, and Afghanistan were all great investments in money and blood.
Actually, each one of those things you cited were all or partly beneficial to the American people.





We can have a long discussion about that but any partial benefits we got from wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were off set by the costs.

Vietnam especially really harmed this country is some serious ways….we have not been the same since it took place.
Come on. This is not Viet Nam. Viet Nam was not being invaded, it was a civil war. We do not have American troops there and there is no draft. The South Vietnamese were never this vested as a Nation to fight.

Ukraine was clearly invaded. You can opine on how Putin was justified or the CIA dropped leaflets, but the bottomline is Putin rolled tanks over a sovereign Border in Europe. THAT IS WAY DIFFERENT.

Either the US is a leader in the World or not. You like your standard of living? You like the options you have here, which are still better than anywhere else. Then being a leader goes with it. The Dollar as the world currency came about AFTER we were the leader.

Basically, this whole endeavor is upgrading our military force sending older ammo and systems and replacing with newer for our troops.

Sorry, there are things that no one wants to do, but it goes with the job. Supporting Ukraine is one of those. This is Putin's war, not the US. Want to stop spending, beat Putin.
You are arguing with clowns not intelligent enough to get past Kremlin propaganda. There is only one reason they are fixated on foreign aid to Ukraine (who is in a major defensive war with our most hostile adversary) and not all the other aid we sprinkle across this planet.


Yup.
sombear
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Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!
The_barBEARian
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Bear8084 said:

ron.reagan said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

It's totally insane giving tens of billions of dollars ( we don't actually possess ) to a country that has never been strategically or economically important to the United States.





That is a true statement. It just doesn't apply to Ukraine.



Our 'representatives' must have just given 60 BILLION dollars to someone else then.

But hey it's just paper anyway right ? Won't increase our debt, won't contribute to inflation.

And God knows we don't have any needs here in the US.

Let's act as if WW1 , WW2 , Korea, Vietnam , Iraq, and Afghanistan were all great investments in money and blood.
Actually, each one of those things you cited were all or partly beneficial to the American people.





We can have a long discussion about that but any partial benefits we got from wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were off set by the costs.

Vietnam especially really harmed this country is some serious ways….we have not been the same since it took place.
Come on. This is not Viet Nam. Viet Nam was not being invaded, it was a civil war. We do not have American troops there and there is no draft. The South Vietnamese were never this vested as a Nation to fight.

Ukraine was clearly invaded. You can opine on how Putin was justified or the CIA dropped leaflets, but the bottomline is Putin rolled tanks over a sovereign Border in Europe. THAT IS WAY DIFFERENT.

Either the US is a leader in the World or not. You like your standard of living? You like the options you have here, which are still better than anywhere else. Then being a leader goes with it. The Dollar as the world currency came about AFTER we were the leader.

Basically, this whole endeavor is upgrading our military force sending older ammo and systems and replacing with newer for our troops.

Sorry, there are things that no one wants to do, but it goes with the job. Supporting Ukraine is one of those. This is Putin's war, not the US. Want to stop spending, beat Putin.
You are arguing with clowns not intelligent enough to get past Kremlin propaganda. There is only one reason they are fixated on foreign aid to Ukraine (who is in a major defensive war with our most hostile adversary) and not all the other aid we sprinkle across this planet.


Yup.


Have you considered joining the Ukrainian foreign legion?

All the money in the world isnt worth anything if there isn't anyone left to fight.

Zelensky and the globalist who control Ukraine and our own government will continue to drink mimosas on their yachts in the Mediterranean
The_barBEARian
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sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?
The_barBEARian
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Everyone in this thread has the ability to fly to Ukraine and join the fight.

But these Ukrainian/Globalist supporters just sit on their asses spending other people's money while other men are dying.

The real evil scumbags are all the "Americans" (I don't consider these ppl American) who cheer on and support this waste of blood and treasure.
sombear
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The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?
The_barBEARian
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sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?
sombear
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The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?


Well, y'all frequently lament the invasion at our border and the war we are fighting there, and how America First means we have to focus on that war. I'm asking if you're down there fighting.
The_barBEARian
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sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?


Well, y'all frequently lament the invasion at our border and the war we are fighting there, and how America First means we have to focus on that war. I'm asking if you're down there fighting.


God damn.

I don't even know where to start with this because it is such a stupid statement on many levels.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how someone could compare supporting the sending American tax dollars to continue a foreign war between two foreign armies on the other side of the world with supporting borders for your own country.

Have you taken a hit to the head recently?
ATL Bear
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The_barBEARian said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.


While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.
Unhinged tripe. Why do you keep bringing religion into this? I can understand some of the arguments for/against supporting Ukraine, but I don't see God anywhere around this. Both sides use the church for propoganda, especially Russia who has co-opted the church as a political tool. The parallels with Islamist regimes is uncanny.
ATL Bear
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Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.
sombear
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The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?


Well, y'all frequently lament the invasion at our border and the war we are fighting there, and how America First means we have to focus on that war. I'm asking if you're down there fighting.


God damn.

I don't even know where to start with this because it is such a stupid statement on many levels.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how someone could compare supporting the sending American tax dollars to continue a foreign war between two foreign armies on the other side of the world with supporting borders for your own country.

Have you taken a hit to the head recently?
I'm not comparing them. I'm poking fun at the silly remarks about "why don't you go fight for Ukraine."
Porteroso
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The_barBEARian said:

Everyone in this thread has the ability to fly to Ukraine and join the fight.

But these Ukrainian/Globalist supporters just sit on their asses spending other people's money while other men are dying.

The real evil scumbags are all the "Americans" (I don't consider these ppl American) who cheer on and support this waste of blood and treasure.

Have you fought all battles you believe in with money, bullets, and your life?
Sam Lowry
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ATL Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.


While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.
Unhinged tripe. Why do you keep bringing religion into this? I can understand some of the arguments for/against supporting Ukraine, but I don't see God anywhere around this. Both sides use the church for propoganda, especially Russia who has co-opted the church as a political tool. The parallels with Islamist regimes is uncanny.
Uh, no. There is a political "Orthodox Church" tied to the Ukrainian state, and an actual Orthodox Church recognized by Orthodoxy worldwide yet persecuted by the Ukrainian regime.There's no wiggle room on this. Your parallel is between the co-opted Ukrainian church and the state-controlled church in China.
The_barBEARian
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Porteroso said:

The_barBEARian said:

Everyone in this thread has the ability to fly to Ukraine and join the fight.

But these Ukrainian/Globalist supporters just sit on their asses spending other people's money while other men are dying.

The real evil scumbags are all the "Americans" (I don't consider these ppl American) who cheer on and support this waste of blood and treasure.

Have you fought all battles you believe in with money, bullets, and your life?


The only battle worth fighting in my mind is against my own government and the fake "Americans" who vote Democrat.
FLBear5630
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ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill. If we won't step up, who will?
.
It appears the only way to be Patriotic or pro-America is to hate on the US and our institutions. How we think, doesn't seem to exist anymore.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill.
Yeah, that's what Ukraine used to believe.

To be an enemy of America is dangerous…to be a friend is fatal.
DallasBear9902
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FLBear5630 said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill. If we won't step up, who will?
.
It appears the only way to be Patriotic or pro-America is to hate on the US and our institutions. How we think, doesn't seem to exist anymore.


Come on. Being an arms supplier and financier isn't leadership in any really meaning of the word.

Leadership is about risk taking and sacrifice. If our way of life is truly at risk here, real leadership would be putting troops at risk. And we all KNOW this admin and Congress will never do that. So either the risk is not real or we are not leading the way.
Redbrickbear
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The_barBEARian said:

Bear8084 said:

ron.reagan said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

It's totally insane giving tens of billions of dollars ( we don't actually possess ) to a country that has never been strategically or economically important to the United States.





That is a true statement. It just doesn't apply to Ukraine.



Our 'representatives' must have just given 60 BILLION dollars to someone else then.

But hey it's just paper anyway right ? Won't increase our debt, won't contribute to inflation.

And God knows we don't have any needs here in the US.

Let's act as if WW1 , WW2 , Korea, Vietnam , Iraq, and Afghanistan were all great investments in money and blood.
Actually, each one of those things you cited were all or partly beneficial to the American people.





We can have a long discussion about that but any partial benefits we got from wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were off set by the costs.

Vietnam especially really harmed this country is some serious ways….we have not been the same since it took place.
Come on. This is not Viet Nam. Viet Nam was not being invaded, it was a civil war. We do not have American troops there and there is no draft. The South Vietnamese were never this vested as a Nation to fight.

Ukraine was clearly invaded. You can opine on how Putin was justified or the CIA dropped leaflets, but the bottomline is Putin rolled tanks over a sovereign Border in Europe. THAT IS WAY DIFFERENT.

Either the US is a leader in the World or not. You like your standard of living? You like the options you have here, which are still better than anywhere else. Then being a leader goes with it. The Dollar as the world currency came about AFTER we were the leader.

Basically, this whole endeavor is upgrading our military force sending older ammo and systems and replacing with newer for our troops.

Sorry, there are things that no one wants to do, but it goes with the job. Supporting Ukraine is one of those. This is Putin's war, not the US. Want to stop spending, beat Putin.
You are arguing with clowns not intelligent enough to get past Kremlin propaganda. There is only one reason they are fixated on foreign aid to Ukraine (who is in a major defensive war with our most hostile adversary) and not all the other aid we sprinkle across this planet.


Yup.


Have you considered joining the Ukrainian foreign legion?




We have asked these war mongers on here time and time to go over and fight in Ukraine if it means so much to them.

Instead they sit on their computers in DFW and root on sending billions in America dollars over there (and probably one day American kids to fight and die as well)

Redbrickbear
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sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?


Well, y'all frequently lament the invasion at our border and the war we are fighting there, and how America First means we have to focus on that war. I'm asking if you're down there fighting.


You realize the powers that be in DC would arrest you for trying to defend our own border.

I mean you do realize that right?

That is what the modern USA has become and the kind of regime we are living under
ATL Bear
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Sam Lowry said:

ATL Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.


While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.
Unhinged tripe. Why do you keep bringing religion into this? I can understand some of the arguments for/against supporting Ukraine, but I don't see God anywhere around this. Both sides use the church for propoganda, especially Russia who has co-opted the church as a political tool. The parallels with Islamist regimes is uncanny.
Uh, no. There is a political "Orthodox Church" tied to the Ukrainian state, and an actual Orthodox Church recognized by Orthodoxy worldwide yet persecuted by the Ukrainian regime.There's no wiggle room on this. Your parallel is between the co-opted Ukrainian church and the state-controlled church in China.
LOL!! Do you even know what Patriarch Kirill has done in Russia? I won't even get into the outlawing of other denominations in Russia they pushed or the loyalty requirements they place upon many that run in politics, but if this isn't a quote you'd see straight out of Islamic jihad rhetoric I don't know what is.

Patriarch Kirill: "Sacrifice in the course of carrying out your military duty washes away all sins."

Even Patriarch Bartholomew has chastised his position on the war, and Pope Francis has advised him not to become Putin's "altar boy".
ATL Bear
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DallasBear9902 said:

FLBear5630 said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill. If we won't step up, who will?
.
It appears the only way to be Patriotic or pro-America is to hate on the US and our institutions. How we think, doesn't seem to exist anymore.


Come on. Being an arms supplier and financier isn't leadership in any really meaning of the word.

Leadership is about risk taking and sacrifice. If our way of life is truly at risk here, real leadership would be putting troops at risk. And we all KNOW this admin and Congress will never do that. So either the risk is not real or we are not leading the way.

The risk can be real without the requirement of American blood. We fight risks daily that don't require blood of our own. But this new found cowardice for the smallest of sacrifice has me confounded, especially when the justifications seem to have an air of favoritism to the things and entities we used to find abhorrent.
KaiBear
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ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

II view America first as to be a leader in the world.


In my view America's greatness peaked at the end of Ronald Reagan's 2nd term.

However the downhill gained its true momentum with the elevation of Barrack Hussein Obama.

Buden is merely the latest figure head for the financial backers who put Obama in office .
Doc Holliday
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ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.
If Ukraine doesn't win or make Russia give up then what will have transpired will be a complete failure to assess the situation correctly, hundreds of billions of dollars wasted and lots of young dead men. That would be an absolute failure on the US, NATO and the west.

Understand that Russia will not give up. If Putin gives up he will be ousted or worse. It's eastern politics. They're insane people. Given those circumstances, do you understand what Ukraine is really up against? Russia/Putin will resort to extreme measures.

You're so convinced that we have this in the bag if we continue to fork over money and weapons because that's what you're being told and you obey. That's a hell of a gamble with the Biden administration running the show.
whiterock
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Realitybites said:

Roads are a legitimate function of government. In general, the maintenance of domestic public infrastructure is. Water supply, sewage, etc also are.

Running up 35 trillion in debt heading on its way to 50 trillion within a decade as the standard of living of citizens is continually degraded and then shipping another 60 billion to country halfway around the world that's involved in an unnecessary war is not.

It is your *opinion* that degrading the Russian military is necessary. You have consistently failed to make a case that the modern Russian state poses any military threat to the west. The majority of the country disagrees with you.

Whiterock is part of - or at least a defender of - that government-american class who can go to the CIA, go on an overseas posting for 5 years, and retire at 40 with a full pension while the majority of Americans have no access to a pension period. He is as big a part of the problem we face as Biden, BLM, and woke academics.
You are wrong about an awful lot up there. Making war is also a legitimate function of government. We sent an expeditionary force to Africa in our earliest days to defend our interests. You make valid points about deficits, but deficits don't matter when your interests are threatened - they must be defended or they will be ceded. And if you wish to fix the budget, I would advise that you start with bigger numbers than $60b, which is a one-time spend that is precisely 0.17% of the debt. To fix a budget deficit, you have to start with the biggest numbers on the books, like payroll and entitlement programs, and cut double-digit percentages out of things, and/or have a meaningful tax increase.

Degrading the Russian war machine is necessary because Russia has pointedly not joined the modern age and continues to send its armies across borders with its neighbors, with a stated intent of reconstituting the footprint of the former USSR, which of course involves a number of Nato members with whom we trade and are obligated to defend. Just mind-numbingly stupid to say Russia poses no threat to us, or that we have zero interest in what happens in Ukraine. As a member of Nato, we have the exact same interests as NATO, which means we have to treat the Russian invasion of Ukraine with the same level of urgency as Finland, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, etc.....and that invasion most definitely is a threat to them.

So your points are completely unserious on both fiscal and foreign policy grounds.

But I save the best part for last. The "cushy retirement" complaint makes the rounds on the internet from time to time, and is always dead-wrong. Congressmen don't get to retire at full pay after a single term. They have standard civil service retirement = the longer you work, the more you make in retirement. CIA officers today have the same basic retirement plan that guys at the Soil Conservation office over on I-35 next to the John Deere dealership get = FERS, aka standard civil service retirement. The only amendment is, if one has served abroad for 5 years, one may retire at age 50 with 20 years of service, or at any age with 25yrs of service. Such terms of course mitigate the amount of money the USG has to contribute to the 401K during the latter years (highest income) of a career, and reduces the defined benefit plan as well, given that it is a simple function of percentage points X number of years. I was a relative rarity in joining CIA straight out of college. Most of my basic training class had done other things before joining, and a fairly goodly percentage of CIA folks are retirees from military service - communicators, tech officers, signals collection officers, paramilitary types, etc...so the average age of CIA personnel is quite older than you'd think. 20-25 years of service takes most CIA officers into their 60's (which of course is why the age/service amendments were made in the first place....) And....of course.....a VERY small percentage of CIA officers serve abroad. The vast majority of folks at Langley get exactly what those soil conservation office guys here in Waco get, because they never had a chance to serve abroad due to the fact that there are no overseas positions in their career category ergo never qualify for the early retirement provisions (ergo the legend of the little old lady in tennis shoes).

Please learn more and think better.
Realitybites
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FLBear5630 said:


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill. If we won't step up, who will?


We are not in a position to lead the way right now, we are trillions in debt and adding more. It is a number we can never repay. It threatens our currency and its strength. It threatens our standard of living and that of our children. Our border is open. Our medical system is on the ropes. 15% of the people residing within our borders are illegal aliens. 40% of our population and a majority of our government officials don't know or aren't willing to say what a woman is.

This is currently not a country or culture that can lead the way to anything but hell on earth.

Physician, heal thyself. We are a long way from either Camelot or the Shining City on a Hill.
Realitybites
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Quote:

Making war is also a legitimate function of government. We sent an expeditionary force to Africa in our earliest days to defend our interests.

By "interests", you mean when the Barbary Coast Pirates were intercepting US flagged merchant vessels and killing or capturing US citizens as slaves. Point out where that is occurring on earth right now, and we can have a discussion about declaring war and invading that country. Maybe Somalia?

50, not 40, typo. Nothing else you've said really contradicts my point. At a time when most Americans don't have access to 1,000 for an emergency, Federal .gov retirements are unbelievable rich.

whiterock said:


Degrading the Russian war machine is necessary because Russia has pointedly not joined the modern age


In other words, a nuclear armed traditional Christian nation that doesnt embrace the vision of Soros/the WEF/the Democrats and won't fly the freak flag at its embassies or embrace third wave feminism.

At least Democrats (the same ones who feted the USSR for decades, remember?) have a philosophical antipathy behind their hatred of modern Russia. GOP neocons are just doing the bidding of their lobbyists.

Quote:

continues to send its armies across borders with its neighbors, with a stated intent of reconstituting the footprint of the former USSR, which of course involves a number of Nato members with whom we trade and are obligated to defend. Just mind-numbingly stupid to say Russia poses no threat to us, or that we have zero interest in what happens in Ukraine.


You are talking about Lugansk, Donbass, and Ossetia here. Not rolling into Berlin. Modern Russia has no desire to rule Poles or Germans.

Quote:

As a member of Nato, we have the exact same interests as NATO


Then we should get out of NATO. But that would really upset the lobbyists at Boeing and Lockheed.
FLBear5630
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Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

ATL Bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

Redbrickbear said:

Doc Holliday said:

whiterock said:

Doc Holliday said:

You can have your wars…but this BS has got to stop:


add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. It causes allocation of expenses into the margins.

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.


If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom…then what is the point of global hegemony?


Great point
Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.
You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex.

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns.
Entitlement programs are absolutely the worst fiscal drain we have. No argument there.

It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to point out.

This was a $77B slush fund in the Ukrainian supplemental ($61B in budget outlays + $16B blank check for drawdowns & loans for any foreign country or intl organization), only $13.8B - somewhat direct military aid. That while we can't get border funding or immigration solved because "it costs too much".

America last is the status quo. Y'all are completely fine with it, and you're in lockstep with the establishment whose responsible for our fiscal disaster of a country.

Look at these psychopaths:

I never considered Russia first as America last, but given some of the opines around here, I may have to reconsider. I view America first as to be a leader in the world. You surrender guys flinging around the coward label has to be one of the more ironic things I've witnessed.


I agree with you. America needs to lead the way and we are the shining City on the hill.
Yeah, that's what Ukraine used to believe.

To be an enemy of America is dangerous…to be a friend is fatal.
Yeah, better to give up and hide in a hole than to help when asked. I can see how that would helpful to people facing tanks. Don't worry, there are quite a few that agree with you, from both sides. I am sure it is in some way Ukraine's fault, after all we know Mr. Putin would never infringe on others for Russia's benefit. He is a Prince...


sombear
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Redbrickbear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Bear8084 said:

ron.reagan said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

whiterock said:

KaiBear said:

It's totally insane giving tens of billions of dollars ( we don't actually possess ) to a country that has never been strategically or economically important to the United States.





That is a true statement. It just doesn't apply to Ukraine.



Our 'representatives' must have just given 60 BILLION dollars to someone else then.

But hey it's just paper anyway right ? Won't increase our debt, won't contribute to inflation.

And God knows we don't have any needs here in the US.

Let's act as if WW1 , WW2 , Korea, Vietnam , Iraq, and Afghanistan were all great investments in money and blood.
Actually, each one of those things you cited were all or partly beneficial to the American people.





We can have a long discussion about that but any partial benefits we got from wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were off set by the costs.

Vietnam especially really harmed this country is some serious ways….we have not been the same since it took place.
Come on. This is not Viet Nam. Viet Nam was not being invaded, it was a civil war. We do not have American troops there and there is no draft. The South Vietnamese were never this vested as a Nation to fight.

Ukraine was clearly invaded. You can opine on how Putin was justified or the CIA dropped leaflets, but the bottomline is Putin rolled tanks over a sovereign Border in Europe. THAT IS WAY DIFFERENT.

Either the US is a leader in the World or not. You like your standard of living? You like the options you have here, which are still better than anywhere else. Then being a leader goes with it. The Dollar as the world currency came about AFTER we were the leader.

Basically, this whole endeavor is upgrading our military force sending older ammo and systems and replacing with newer for our troops.

Sorry, there are things that no one wants to do, but it goes with the job. Supporting Ukraine is one of those. This is Putin's war, not the US. Want to stop spending, beat Putin.
You are arguing with clowns not intelligent enough to get past Kremlin propaganda. There is only one reason they are fixated on foreign aid to Ukraine (who is in a major defensive war with our most hostile adversary) and not all the other aid we sprinkle across this planet.


Yup.


Have you considered joining the Ukrainian foreign legion?




We have asked these war mongers on here time and time to go over and fight in Ukraine if it means so much to them.

Instead they sit on their computers in DFW and root on sending billions in America dollars over there (and probably one day American kids to fight and die as well)


Truly comical. We who support a free nation defending itself against a tyrant invader are the war mongers, not Putin! The pretzel knots y'all twist yourselves into are impressive.
sombear
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Redbrickbear said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

The_barBEARian said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


You re the 2nd, congrats!


I think anyone supporting a war they aren't willing to fight in themselves is evil.

Do you consider yourself an evil person?


I assume you moved down to the border and are fighting that war?


What?


Well, y'all frequently lament the invasion at our border and the war we are fighting there, and how America First means we have to focus on that war. I'm asking if you're down there fighting.


You realize the powers that be in DC would arrest you for trying to defend our own border.

I mean you do realize that right?

That is what the modern USA has become and the kind of regime we are living under
So you answered, which I respect. You're not willing to give up your life or liberty for a cause you believe in.
Mothra
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Doc Holliday said:

sombear said:

Doc Holliday said:




With all the Russian propaganda spewed over the last 2 years, this is the first I've seen someone actually claim Ukraine declared war on Russia in 2014. Totally unhinged.
They did.

Can we please acknowledge all of the western hate for Ukraine in the past decade +?


At no point has Ukraine ever declared war on Russia. The closest you can come is the Ukraine parliament declared Russia, a terrorist state in 2022.

It is remarkable to me some of the bull**** propaganda you guys buy, when a simple, google search would tell you it's bull*****
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

Roads are a legitimate function of government. In general, the maintenance of domestic public infrastructure is. Water supply, sewage, etc also are.

Running up 35 trillion in debt heading on its way to 50 trillion within a decade as the standard of living of citizens is continually degraded and then shipping another 60 billion to country halfway around the world that's involved in an unnecessary war is not.

It is your *opinion* that degrading the Russian military is necessary. You have consistently failed to make a case that the modern Russian state poses any military threat to the west. The majority of the country disagrees with you.

Whiterock is part of - or at least a defender of - that government-american class who can go to the CIA, go on an overseas posting for 5 years, and retire at 40 with a full pension while the majority of Americans have no access to a pension period. He is as big a part of the problem we face as Biden, BLM, and woke academics.
As a member of Nato, we have the exact same interests as NATO
A fundamental misunderstanding of how alliances work, and an incredibly dangerous one at that.
Mothra
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For those who are in favor of withdrawing all funding and weaponry from the Ukrainian war, I am curious as to whether you believe Russia annexing, Ukraine somehow serves American strategic interests. I am curious whether you see Russia, expanding its territory is a good thing. Or is it you just don't care and it's not worth the money and resources?
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