Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

$16,000 per family for entitlements.

---

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up on here the out of control nature of Federal government spending.

Your opponents have agreed a hundred times on the need for DC to stop endlessly spending/printing money.

But for some reason you think out of control domestic spending will justify out of control foreign spending…

We can not afford our current entitlement programs and we sure as heck can not afford this proxy war

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

Putin's close association with the Orthodox Church is like Modi and the BJP and its association with Hinduism/Hindutva

Both are looking for legitimacy but neither are trying to establish an actual theocracy unlike places like Iran or Afghanistan


[For Indian nationalists, it has subsumed "religious sentiments and public rituals into a larger discourse of national culture (Bharatiya culture) and the Hindu nation, Hindu rashtra", states Hansen.[116] This notion has appealed to the masses in part because it "connects meaningfully with everyday anxieties of security, a sense of disorder" in modern Indian life.[116] The BJP has deployed the Hindutva theme in its election campaign since early 1991, as well as nominated candidates who are affiliated with organisations that support the Hindutva ideology]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva

---

No, it's not. First, local/state politics are much more powerful in India than anything in Russia. They have a wide range of political party participation that varies state to state, and that applies to religious influence as well, especially Muslim. Hinduism is also a variant religion with many subsects, so there's also that. Finally, this cultural and political diversity also fits in with the language variants by state, as well as the reality human mobility inter-India is no where close to countries even like Russia.

Hindu Nationalism is more of an external projection toward Pakistan primarily in their rivalry.

---

The Federalism of the Indian system is not really relevant to the aspersions of the Hindutva ideology.

(Not to mention that Russia of course is a Federal system as well-at least on paper)

Read the article…the point remains that what you dislike about inside of Putin's Russia is present inside of Modi's India

And neither are actual theocracies (both are looking for legitimacy and actually engaged in what they see as a "nation building campaign". India right now being far more successful at that than Russia…and for demographic reasons will be far more successful in the future

As Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his acolytes systematically weaken India’s democratic institutions, they are reshaping the country into a democracy only in name and an electoral autocracy in practice, writes @Ram_Guha. https://t.co/QELWmI2N4C

— Foreign Affairs (@ForeignAffairs) April 21, 2024

---

Modi's approach in India is nothing like Putin. Hinduism isn't controlled by a central institution. Putin is using the central church as a control mechanism. The Hindu nationalism of Modi is more like Trump and cultural nationalism/populism.

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

$16,000 per family for entitlements.

---

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up on here the out of control nature of Federal government spending.

Your opponents have agreed a hundred times on the need for DC to stop endlessly spending/printing money.

But for some reason you think out of control domestic spending will justify out of control foreign spending…

We can not afford our current entitlement programs and we sure as heck can not afford this proxy war

---

I keep bringing it up because we actually collect enough in taxes to cover our discretionary budgeted expenses, including special foreign aid packages, and even when we have a shortfall it is minuscule compared to our collections vs outlays to cover our mandatory spending (i.e. entitlements).

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

Guess you weren't aware that most of sombear's list was happening before Zelensky and the Ukraine War was a thing. Only now you have a crusader against your American imperialist boogeyman, so you are forced to justify or whataboutism it.

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
~ Sir Walter Scott

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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Roads are a legitimate function of government. In general, the maintenance of domestic public infrastructure is. Water supply, sewage, etc also are.

Running up 35 trillion in debt heading on its way to 50 trillion within a decade as the standard of living of citizens is continually degraded and then shipping another 60 billion to country halfway around the world that's involved in an unnecessary war is not.

It is your *opinion* that degrading the Russian military is necessary. You have consistently failed to make a case that the modern Russian state poses any military threat to the west. The majority of the country disagrees with you.

Whiterock is part of - or at least a defender of - that government-american class who can go to the CIA, go on an overseas posting for 5 years, and retire at 40 with a full pension while the majority of Americans have no access to a pension period. He is as big a part of the problem we face as Biden, BLM, and woke academics.

---

Russia has pointedly not joined the modern age and continues to send its armies across borders with its neighbors, with a stated intent of reconstituting the footprint of the former USSR

---

Just a reminder that this is still a lie, no matter how many times it's repeated.

---

Somehow, you've managed to completely miss recent developments of the last decade, which have seen Russia send its armies across internationally recognized borders several times.

Put down the Pravda and watch this succinct rebuttal of the Russian propaganda you've ingested:

Radek Sikorski, Poland's foreign minister, told the meting he was "amazed" at the "tone and the content" of comments by Russia's UN ambassador. He then made several statements "correcting" his speechhttps://t.co/ErEn1RwAiN pic.twitter.com/iofoRk15rj

— Sky News (@SkyNews) February 24, 2024

---

I was referring to the "stated intent of reconstituting the footprint of the former USSR." You've never been able to show where they stated this.

I'm not sure what the video is supposed to prove, but the foreign minister's performance is certainly a tour-de-force. I haven't seen that many lies and half-truths in one speech since Blinken's last press briefing.

---

The soviets were also very skilled in studious obtusity. I mean, if one never listens or reads any of Putin's speeches, one could very well think the man never speaks at all about anything.

---

Nice, creative dodge.

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Can anyone answer this following questions?

Is Russia weak or not?

If they are weak, then how are they a global threat?

If they aren't weak, then how is Ukraine going to stop them?

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. .

---

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

$16,000 per family for entitlements.

---

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up on here the out of control nature of Federal government spending.

Your opponents have agreed a hundred times on the need for DC to stop endlessly spending/printing money.

But for some reason you think out of control domestic spending will justify out of control foreign spending…

We can not afford our current entitlement programs and we sure as heck can not afford this proxy war

---

I keep bringing it up because we actually collect enough in taxes to cover our discretionary budgeted expenses, including special foreign aid packages, and even when we have a shortfall it is minuscule compared to our collections vs outlays to cover our mandatory spending (i.e. entitlements).

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KaiBear said:

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Do you have any reputable sources for these comments ?

Seems strange that such activities have not been blared throughout our media.

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whiterock said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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$500 from every family in America to Ukraine is "not a whole lot of money" in Mitch's book.

For context, roughly half of Americans do not have $500 for an emergency.https://t.co/cRlvCCQFNS

— Peter St Onge, Ph.D. (@profstonge) April 25, 2024

---

$16,000 per family for entitlements.

---

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up on here the out of control nature of Federal government spending.

Your opponents have agreed a hundred times on the need for DC to stop endlessly spending/printing money.

But for some reason you think out of control domestic spending will justify out of control foreign spending…

We can not afford our current entitlement programs and we sure as heck can not afford this proxy war

---

I keep bringing it up because we actually collect enough in taxes to cover our discretionary budgeted expenses, including special foreign aid packages, and even when we have a shortfall it is minuscule compared to our collections vs outlays to cover our mandatory spending (i.e. entitlements).

---

The ENTIRE budget for DOD in 2024 is $850 billion
The budget deficit for 2024 is $1.6 TRILLION

Ending ALL defense spending does not balance the budget.
Suggesting that military aid to Ukraine has a significant impact on the deficit is quite silly.

We spend 4x more money on clean energy subsidies than we are spending in Ukraine......

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My friend, you have been deceived. While Putin may share some cultural beliefs with people who call themselves "Christians," he is no ally of Christianity in any way, shape or form. When you pass laws that outlaw evangelism outside of the church building, and severely restrict and penalize those who practice a faith other than the Russian Orthodoxy, that is in no way Christian. You might want to talk to some missionaries to Russia just to see how oppressive it's become.

The irony here is, you're defending a guy who is the antithesis of Christianity and democracy because he is an ally in the cultural war, yet constantly decry Trump because he's an anti-democratic despot, despite the fact he is also an ally in the cultural war and has achieved more in that battle than any Republican president before him. It's remarkable.

---

Evangelism is regulated, not outlawed. Russia recognizes the importance of all forms of Christianity, as well as Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism, not just Russian Orthodoxy. I disagree with many of their policies, but none of that is really relevant to the war.

I also recognize that Trump is a cultural ally and has done many good things. I'm not willing to support him any more because I actually care about democracy in this country. The irony is that you criticize others while still supporting Trump, despite his open assaults on the republic, as long as he furthers your cultural agenda.

---

Yes, there are a number of countries around the world that significantly impinge on Christianity in the guise of "regulation." But that wasn't the point. I took issue with your absurd position that Putin was an "ally" of Christianity. If by "ally" you mean he allows Christians to merely exist, well, sure, so long as of course they confine their beliefs to themselves and live in Russia (Ukraine is apparently a different matter altogether).

You're not willing to support Trump, but you will vociferously defend and support Putin for being a cultural ally. Is it because you are ethnocentric and only care about policies that personally affect you? Don't give a **** about the average every day Russian? We already know you couldn't give two ****s about the average Ukrainian, of course, so perhaps that's the case.

I would submit anyone who thinks there is any real danger Trump is going to overthrow democracy in our country is either a moron, or is all up in their emotions. There literally is zero chance Trump could come close to doing any of the things your little buddy Putin has done in Russia. Yet, you don't appear to care very much about winning the culture war here.

---

If Trump was going to end Democracy, he had four years to do it the first go-around. He was CIC of the entire military and federal apparatus. If he wanted to go full-Putin, he could have won the 2020 election 90-10, or he could have just made a few phone calls and dared anyone to throw him out.

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

---

I don't know. Maybe because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined?

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

Realitybites said:

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KaiBear said:

---

Do you have any reputable sources for these comments ?

Seems strange that such activities have not been blared throughout our media.

---

https://rumble.com/v3rz9ug-tucker-carlson-interviews-lawyer-for-ukrainian-orthodox-church.html


"Fox News journalist Tucker Carlson assessed the situation accurately: "Zelenskyy's secret police have raided monasteries across Ukraine, and even a convent full of nuns, and arrested dozens of priests for no justifiable reasons whatsoever and in clear violation of the Ukrainian Constitution, which no longer matters. And in the face of this, the Biden's administration has said nothing. Not one word. Instead, they continue to push to send Zelenskyy more tax dollars."

Carlson is absolutely right. The president, in violation of Ukrainian laws, imposed sanctions against Ukrainian bishops and then revoked the Ukrainian citizenship of some other bishops, despite the fact that this clearly contradicts the constitution.

The situation is even more absurd because the UOC is doing everything to help its people in this unjust war. According to official data, the church renders great assistance to the army, internally displaced persons, and the needy. The assistance to the army has reached nearly a million dollars, and 180 tons of humanitarian aid have been delivered for the Armed Forces of Ukraineimpressive given that people in Ukraine are not at all rich and their donations to temples are very scarce. In addition, at the UOC's main council in May 2022, it adopted a number of decisions to break off canonical spiritual ties with the ROC.

However, it seems that Zelenskyy is set to completely outlaw and destroy the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. On January 20, a bill on the de facto ban of the UOC was submitted to parliament. The initiator of the law was no ordinary parliamentarian but the prime minister, Denys Shmyhal. It marks a return to a shameful era when a state in the center of Europe intends to crack down on the religion of its own people."

It's been thoroughly documented, but state-controlled pro-LGBT media doesn't talk about it.

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

It's incredible to me that Sam is seriously attempting to make this argument. He is the same guy who was highly critical of Evangelicals who cozied up to Trump or called Trump a Christian.

Perhaps if Trump weren't American...

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

It's incredible to me that Sam is seriously attempting to make this argument. He is the same guy who was highly critical of Evangelicals who cozied up to Trump or called Trump a Christian.

Perhaps if Trump weren't American...

---

Trump is NO Christian. Anyone who thinks he is, is seriously delusional . Get your Bibles right here says the carnival barker. When asked if he had ever asked for forgiveness and Trumps said "NO". I don't need to. I think that puts his faith or lack of in perspective.

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

It's incredible to me that Sam is seriously attempting to make this argument. He is the same guy who was highly critical of Evangelicals who cozied up to Trump or called Trump a Christian.

Perhaps if Trump weren't American...

---

Trump is NO Christian. Anyone who thinks he is, is seriously delusional . Get your Bibles right here says the carnival barker. When asked if he had ever asked for forgiveness and Trumps said "NO". I don't need to. I think that puts his faith or lack of in perspective.

---

I am not saying he is. We haven't had an actual Christian in the White House in a long time, IMO. But that wasn't my point.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

It's incredible to me that Sam is seriously attempting to make this argument. He is the same guy who was highly critical of Evangelicals who cozied up to Trump or called Trump a Christian.

Perhaps if Trump weren't American...

---

Trump is NO Christian. Anyone who thinks he is, is seriously delusional . Get your Bibles right here says the carnival barker. When asked if he had ever asked for forgiveness and Trumps said "NO". I don't need to. I think that puts his faith or lack of in perspective.

---

I am not saying he is. We haven't had an actual Christian in the White House in a long time, IMO. But that wasn't my point.

---

Bingo,

JR keeps bringing up Trump (and his lack of Christianity) on this thread...when there are MANY politics and Trump threads active right now.

But to say the least there is very little to show us that Clinton, or Obama, or Biden were/are very serious about religion.

(And G.W.Bush might have been serious about his Methodist faith but it did not stop his Presidency from being a disaster in terms of war, debt, and the size of government.)

And anyway Evangelicals are not looking for a head "Pastor in Chief"....they are looking for a protector and a fighter and voting based on those issues alone...not on who is the "most moral" whatever that means.

Not to mention that religion in general is in massive decline in the USA (and the West in general) and the non-religious make up an increasing large share of the electorate (even on the Right).

Trump won in 2016 by getting blue collar workers in the Midwest....men who are angry at the direction of the country and not particularly religious or Church going.

JR has never focused on that issue because its a hard one for him to use as a club to beat on Evangelicals (his real hobby horse)

---

Mothra said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We were talking about the church in Russia. Ukraine is obviously rife with suspicion and conflict, and both sides carry out raids in search of enemy spies.

---

No. You said Putin is more Christian . . . . .

He has a history of slaughtering Christians.

He bribed the head of the Russian Church and heavily restricts non-Orthodox churches.

He does not believe in individual freedom or liberty.

He murders or incarcerates domestic political opponents.

He's in bed with the Russian mob and looks the other way on child sex and human trafficking.

His closest allies are countries that persecute Christians and even sentence them to death.

He has opposed numerous churches and sects and instead fought for secular socialist governments.

He is literally torturing and murdering Ukrainian Christians and Christian leaders and burning down their churches.

I worked with Russians. Many were afraid to publicly identify as Christians.

Contrary to what idiot propagandists say, Russia is one of the least Christian countries in Europe when it comes to church attendance and people who say their Christianity is important to them. BTW Ukraine is at or near the top.

I could go on and on.

Putin is not a Christian and doesn't act like one. He is the epitome of anti-Christian.

---

I guess you weren't aware that Zelensky's government had seized and locked down 250 churches as of 2022. Or that UOC churches were vandalized and burned. Or that priests were forcibly dragged out, kidnapped, imprisoned, and replaced by officially recognized clergy. Or that parishioners were beaten and coerced to attend officially recognized churches. Or that priests have disappeared or been murdered by Ukrainian security forces. Or that Zelensky canceled elections and outlawed opposition parties. Or that he introduced a bill to ban the UOC outright. I could go on too.

---

False

---

So you were aware?

---

Putin does not support Christianity. He is everything that Christianity is not.

---

It's incredible to me that Sam is seriously attempting to make this argument. He is the same guy who was highly critical of Evangelicals who cozied up to Trump or called Trump a Christian.

Perhaps if Trump weren't American...

---

Trump is NO Christian. Anyone who thinks he is, is seriously delusional . Get your Bibles right here says the carnival barker. When asked if he had ever asked for forgiveness and Trumps said "NO". I don't need to. I think that puts his faith or lack of in perspective.

---

I am not saying he is. We haven't had an actual Christian in the White House in a long time, IMO. But that wasn't my point.

---

Bingo,

JR keeps bringing up Trump (and his lack of Christianity) on this thread...when there are MANY politics and Trump threads active right now.

But to say the least there is very little to show us that Clinton, or Obama, or Biden were/are very serious about religion.

(And G.W.Bush might have been serious about his Methodist faith but it did not stop his Presidency from being a disaster in terms of war, debt, and the size of government.)

And anyway Evangelicals are not looking for a head "Pastor in Chief"....they are looking for a protector and a fighter and voting based on those issues alone...not on who is the "most moral" whatever that means.

Not to mention that religion in general is in massive decline in the USA (and the West in general) and the non-religious make up an increasing large share of the electorate (even on the Right).

Trump won in 2016 by getting blue collar workers in the Midwest....men who are angry at the direction of the country and not particularly religious or Church going.

JR has never focused on that issue because its a hard one for him to use as a club to beat on Evangelicals (his real hobby horse)

---

Yes, I've never really understood the argument by JR, LIQR and others about, "How can Christians support Trump"? Well, when you have a binary choice, and neither option is a Christian or behaves like a Christian in their persona lives, of course you're going to vote for the guy whose policies most closely align with your principles, as opposed to the guy (Biden) whose policies are diametrically opposed to same. This seems elementary.

But the Trump haters, or those leaning left politically, love to use Trump as a cudgel to beat Christians over the head. They're real goal is of course to get anyone but Trump elected, as they're not really conservative in any meaningful sense. Hell, even JR admits he leans left on social issues and makes more money under Dem admins. So another Biden election is probably a net positive for him. That being the case, why would he want to see the more conservative candidate elected? The answer is: he wouldn't.

I think there are a lot of people in this country and on this board who are Christians in name only, and don't really see the harm in another Biden election (throw Sam in there as well, in addition to the names mentioned above).

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

---

I don't know. Maybe because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined?

---

The war in Iraq killed between 500,000 to 1 million Iraqis

Plus millions displaced

I very much doubt the Russo-Ukrainian war has killed that many…but if it has the Moscow can join DC in the shame of having unleashed a hateful and evil war that has killed & destroyed lots of lives

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

---

No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

---

Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

---

I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

---

I don't know. Maybe because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined?

---

The war in Iraq killed between 500,000 to 1 million Iraqis

Plus millions displaced

I very much doubt the Russo-Ukrainian war has killed that many…but if it has the Moscow can join DC in the shame of having unleashed a hateful and evil war that has killed & destroyed lots of lives

---

I know you always want to bring it back to the big bad U.S. of A., but what you're saying isn't germane.

---

Mothra said:

---

Post 9/11 wars were a mistake, IMO, with the possible exception of Afghanistan, had it been handled correctly. But the link you posted said that the wars have contributed to 4.5 million deaths,

---

Realitybites said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Do you have any reputable sources for these comments ?

Seems strange that such activities have not been blared throughout our media.

---

https://rumble.com/v3rz9ug-tucker-carlson-interviews-lawyer-for-ukrainian-orthodox-church.html


"Fox News journalist Tucker Carlson assessed the situation accurately: "Zelenskyy's secret police have raided monasteries across Ukraine, and even a convent full of nuns, and arrested dozens of priests for no justifiable reasons whatsoever and in clear violation of the Ukrainian Constitution, which no longer matters. And in the face of this, the Biden's administration has said nothing. Not one word. Instead, they continue to push to send Zelenskyy more tax dollars."

Carlson is absolutely right. The president, in violation of Ukrainian laws, imposed sanctions against Ukrainian bishops and then revoked the Ukrainian citizenship of some other bishops, despite the fact that this clearly contradicts the constitution.

The situation is even more absurd because the UOC is doing everything to help its people in this unjust war. According to official data, the church renders great assistance to the army, internally displaced persons, and the needy. The assistance to the army has reached nearly a million dollars, and 180 tons of humanitarian aid have been delivered for the Armed Forces of Ukraineimpressive given that people in Ukraine are not at all rich and their donations to temples are very scarce. In addition, at the UOC's main council in May 2022, it adopted a number of decisions to break off canonical spiritual ties with the ROC.

However, it seems that Zelenskyy is set to completely outlaw and destroy the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. On January 20, a bill on the de facto ban of the UOC was submitted to parliament. The initiator of the law was no ordinary parliamentarian but the prime minister, Denys Shmyhal. It marks a return to a shameful era when a state in the center of Europe intends to crack down on the religion of its own people."

It's been thoroughly documented, but state-controlled pro-LGBT media doesn't talk about it.

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

---

add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

---

If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

---

Great point

---

Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

---

You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

---

While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

---

There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

---

The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

---

Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

---

If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

---

If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

---

They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

---

You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

---

I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

---

Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

---

The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

---

Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

---

Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

---

Because your last sentence is patently false,

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No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

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Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

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I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

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I don't know. Maybe because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined?

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The war in Iraq killed between 500,000 to 1 million Iraqis

Plus millions displaced

I very much doubt the Russo-Ukrainian war has killed that many…but if it has the Moscow can join DC in the shame of having unleashed a hateful and evil war that has killed & destroyed lots of lives

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I know you always want to bring it back to the big bad U.S. of A., but what you're saying isn't germane.

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And you always want to pretend that criticizing the actions of the DC political class is "attacking the US of A"

Plus of course a discussion of deaths is germane to the subject at hand!

You said "because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined"

This is of course a lie or at the least willful misinformation.

The Iraq war killed between 500,000 to 1 million iraqis....the post 9/11 wars might have killed up to 4.5 million people.

Russia has not killed that many civilians in Europe...

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it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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You can have your wars%85but this BS has got to stop:

Waltz: How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?

Sec. Kendall: I don't know.

Waltz: $90,000.

pic.twitter.com/9WwmkP3MVr

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 17, 2024

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add this to the stories of four-digit hammers and five-digit toilet seats...... %A0It's what happens when you place cost controls on the big-ticket parts of the program. %A0It causes allocation of expenses into the margins. %A0 %A0

If this was a case of garden-variety bilking, we would not be seeing steady trends of consolidation in our defense industrial base.

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If global hegemony domination means we turn into a quasi socialist country made of wage slaves forking over financial freedom%85then what is the point of global hegemony?

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Great point

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Thanks

I kind of see it like selling our soul. We're willing to drop trillions on Ukraine and any other war/s in order to supposedly dominate Russia or other countries that pose a threat to western dominance and in process of doing so we print trillions further devaluing the dollar by creating insane inflation.

We "succeed" in war efforts at the cost of destroying our middle class, in effect it's like we're becoming that which we're fighting against.

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You guys are distracted. In 2022 we spent $4.5 Trillion on medical services of which 90% was paid for by private insurance (highly subsidized/regulated industry) or the preponderance by Medicare and Medicaid. %A0A number that rises at a 4-8% clip annually regardless of inflation. %A0Check it out. How much of your income goes toward Ukraine versus the healthcare costs of others from your private insurance to your Medicare tax to your income tax that gets allocated to Medicaid? %A0If there's a "MIC" you're a wage slave to it's the Medical/Healthcare Industrial Complex. %A0

That is if we want to have an honest conversation about fiscal concerns. %A0

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While I agree in principle, at least Medicare has a direct benefit on actual Americans.

Foreign aid has a negligible benefit to Americans and is the most obvious and insulting waste of tax dollars.

Especially in the case of Ukraine, where supporting them turns a Christian Orthodox Russia into an unnecessary enemy.

Putin already said multiple times he is ready to take a peace deal. Was Hitler offering peace deals after he annexed Austria?

It is you psychopaths who support Biden who are perpetrating this war but ofc you are too cowardly and pathetic to actually go fight it yourselves.

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There you go again thinking Russia is this bastion of Christian ideals and defender of Christianity. %A0Absolutely insane. %A0

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The GOP is no bastion of Christian ideals, but it is often a defender of Christianity. Two things can be true at once.

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Considering any political entity a defender of Christianity in any form is as misguided as it is idiotic. %A0

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If so then it's equally misguided to criticize any political entity for not being a defender of Christianity.

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If so, then it is lobial absentia to believe Russian Orthodoxy is a victim and at stake here. %A0The poor poor persecuted Russian Orthodox Christians, following their despot in the fight against the anti-Christian world around them. %A0

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They are certainly being persecuted in Ukraine, but there's no point in arguing about that. The next time you recognize an obvious fact will be the first.

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You'd think on a Baylor message board there'd be the slightest bit of sympathy for the Baptist's in Eastern Ukraine getting tortured and demanded to pledge loyalty to the Russian Orthodox Church under the guidance of priests. %A0Or the outlawing and restrictions on evangelism in Russia proper, or the outlawing of denominations like Jehovah's Witness under terrorism laws. %A0But then you provided a crusade era quote in defending Patriarch Kirill. %A0I knew you guys held Putin and Russia above the U.S., I just never expected you to hold them above our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. %A0Welcome to the shame of Christian nationalism. %A0

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I don't lack sympathy for Baptists under Russian law, nor am I saying we should follow the example of the Crusades. I'm just pointing out the irony of your comparing Patriarch Kirill to an Islamic jihadist when Christians have long justified anti-Muslim crusades in the same manner. And of course Protestants and Catholics have committed many crimes against each other over the centuries, with Protestants being the worse by far. None of this is new. Just get a little sense of history before making such absurd statements, that's all.

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Absurd? It's because I know the history that I point out what Putin with his Patriarch lackey Kirill are doing. They've even added a greater Rus prayer to the liturgy. Your boy's so enthralled with his history he's apparently thinking they're building the third Rome with the techniques from the Middle Ages. The West put away the holy war approach a long time ago, unlike the Islamists. Kirill is bringing it back under Russo-nationalism. Your crusade era quote appears to try and justify it.

I know Putin is using the church to manipulate and control Russia, I'm just shocked at how many of you seem to sympathize with the effort.

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The laws you're talking about are part of Russia's anti-terrorism legislation. Obviously they've taken a different approach and chosen to limit free speech in order not to give free rein to Islamist ideology and other foreign influences. Time will tell the results, but calling it a holy war is indeed absurd.

It would be arrogant to presume that the "modern" way is the only way of doing things. The American experiment is just that, an experiment. It is not the measure of all things. Our system of laws is the product of many centuries of social and economic development. If we really want to nurture liberal democracy in Russia, we should stop trying to bully and exploit them and allow progress to occur.

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Sam, you can twist it however you want, but you know what's going on here. It's just hard to admit it given how you've dug in for the Russians. Coercing the populace toward the preferred religious structure, and using that platform as a pillar of power is as old as religion and as modern as today.

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Of course it's as old as time. So what's your point? Why single out Russia when Ukraine does as bad or worse?

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Because your last sentence is patently false,

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No, but let's say it is false. Why single them out in any case? Are they worse than Saudi Arabia? For that matter are they worse than Europe? The Brits will arrest you these days if you stand in front of an abortion clinic with a less than exuberant look on your face.

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Well, Russia hasn't quite reached Saudi levels of state religious tyranny, but they're getting close to Indonesia. And I'm not the one defending any of this, you are.

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I'm only defending Russia to the extent that I don't think we should wage a proxy war against them. If you disagree, it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis.

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I don't know. Maybe because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined?

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The war in Iraq killed between 500,000 to 1 million Iraqis

Plus millions displaced

I very much doubt the Russo-Ukrainian war has killed that many…but if it has the Moscow can join DC in the shame of having unleashed a hateful and evil war that has killed & destroyed lots of lives

---

I know you always want to bring it back to the big bad U.S. of A., but what you're saying isn't germane.

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And you always want to pretend that criticizing the actions of the DC political class is "attacking the US of A"

Plus of course a discussion of deaths is germane to the subject at hand!

You said "because in the last 25 years Russia has killed more European civilians than the entire Middle East combined"

This is of course a lie or at the least willful misinformation.

The Iraq war killed between 500,000 to 1 million iraqis....the post 9/11 wars might have killed up to 4.5 million people.

Russia has not killed that many civilians in Europe...

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You have a reading comprehension problem. You're answering a question that wasn't asked in your exuberance to defend Russia and take a potshot at the US. The specific question:

Quote:

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it's your burden to explain why they're a bigger menace than the Saudis

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