So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Actually it isn't suicidal arrogance, it's practicality in our intertwined world. Russia is learning the lesson we did in Afghanistan. It's harder to end wars than it is to start them. Unfortunately for them, this isn't some low value backwoods hell hole, this was a nation on the brink of EU membership with Western aspirations so the resistance is greater and stakes higher. So yes, their end game is the critical ask.Sam Lowry said:So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Suicidal arrogance summed up in a line.
They already told us.ATL Bear said:Actually it isn't suicidal arrogance, it's practicality in our intertwined world. Russia is learning the lesson we did in Afghanistan. It's harder to end wars than it is to start them. Unfortunately for them, this isn't some low value backwoods hell hole, this was a nation on the brink of EU membership with Western aspirations so the resistance is greater and stakes higher. So yes, their end game is the critical ask.Sam Lowry said:So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Suicidal arrogance summed up in a line.
Which version and period of time?Sam Lowry said:They already told us.ATL Bear said:Actually it isn't suicidal arrogance, it's practicality in our intertwined world. Russia is learning the lesson we did in Afghanistan. It's harder to end wars than it is to start them. Unfortunately for them, this isn't some low value backwoods hell hole, this was a nation on the brink of EU membership with Western aspirations so the resistance is greater and stakes higher. So yes, their end game is the critical ask.Sam Lowry said:So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Suicidal arrogance summed up in a line.
sombear said:Friendly wager . . . I bet that, if Trump wins, he will not end Ukraine support.KaiBear said:sombear said:
I'm 55 and have never voted for a Dem. I do plan on leaving my Pres ballot blank.
And I was just making the point that nobody really knows what Trump will do about Ukraine if he wins. He's been all over the place and back.
Trump is not an unknown commodity.
He was president for 4 years.
And in those 4 years Trump kept the US out of foreign wars.
Despite all the fear mongering Trumps foreign policy moves were excellent for the most part.
I'll take that bet, but curious how you see that playing out.KaiBear said:sombear said:Friendly wager . . . I bet that, if Trump wins, he will not end Ukraine support.KaiBear said:sombear said:
I'm 55 and have never voted for a Dem. I do plan on leaving my Pres ballot blank.
And I was just making the point that nobody really knows what Trump will do about Ukraine if he wins. He's been all over the place and back.
Trump is not an unknown commodity.
He was president for 4 years.
And in those 4 years Trump kept the US out of foreign wars.
Despite all the fear mongering Trumps foreign policy moves were excellent for the most part.
Friendly wager
If Trump wins the war in Ukraine will be over within 8 months of his inauguration.
They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
My how your initial allegation has evolved.Sam Lowry said:It was widely reported that Blinken met with Lavrov (not Putin -- my mistake), that the placement of weapons on Russia's border was an issue, and that no agreement was reached. We already have nuclear-capable installations in Romania and Poland. Nor is anyone denying Putin's claim on our side. It's really not that hard to believe unless you're determined not to.sombear said:I don't trust any politicians. But if I had to rank them, yes, I'd probably trust Putin the least.Sam Lowry said:I forgot the "just listen to Putin" crowd never actually listens. Please tell me you're not that brainwashed.sombear said:Please tell me you're jokingSam Lowry said:Putin talked about it last week while delivering his ultimatum to Ukraine.sombear said:link?Sam Lowry said:Blinken told Putin in January 2022 that we reserved the right to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine. The only thing up for discussion was how many.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:They don't consider Ukraine's existence to be a threat. They consider Ukraine's military alliance with the West to be a threat, and that's why there was a neutrality agreement when Ukraine became independent. They've been very clear about this.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Why did they agree to what?FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Than why did they agree?
Putin draws the line? What makes anyone think Putin draws the line at Ukraine? When has Russia stood by anything they say? Remember, they agreed to Ukraine. Until they didn't.
The creation of Ukraine. They agreed. Ukraine was not some breakaway Republic. There was a lot of negotiation. Now it is unacceptable?? 40 years later? Now as you say it is existential to Russia? BS.
That was AFTER Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 they voted to abandon neutrality. You think taking Crimea changed things s bit?
I really don't get the benefit of being a Putin surrogate. He took Crimea and invaded a neighboring Nation. You and Red have been going through months of mental/historic gymnastics to make thst not only OK, but the US\NATO/Ukraines fault.
He doesn't invade, no US/NATO weapons.
It's more likely that without the prospect of US/NATO weapons, Russia doesn't invade.
That has never been reported anywhere. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe - even if it the source was someone other than Putin. To paraphrase Pat Buchanan on Slick Willy, how do you know when Putin is lying . . . his lips are moving.
So he needed to invade Ukraine to prevent the internal breakup of Russia? That's incredible!Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Move along, the grown-ups are talking.Mothra said:My how your initial allegation has evolved.Sam Lowry said:It was widely reported that Blinken met with Lavrov (not Putin -- my mistake), that the placement of weapons on Russia's border was an issue, and that no agreement was reached. We already have nuclear-capable installations in Romania and Poland. Nor is anyone denying Putin's claim on our side. It's really not that hard to believe unless you're determined not to.sombear said:I don't trust any politicians. But if I had to rank them, yes, I'd probably trust Putin the least.Sam Lowry said:I forgot the "just listen to Putin" crowd never actually listens. Please tell me you're not that brainwashed.sombear said:Please tell me you're jokingSam Lowry said:Putin talked about it last week while delivering his ultimatum to Ukraine.sombear said:link?Sam Lowry said:Blinken told Putin in January 2022 that we reserved the right to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine. The only thing up for discussion was how many.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:They don't consider Ukraine's existence to be a threat. They consider Ukraine's military alliance with the West to be a threat, and that's why there was a neutrality agreement when Ukraine became independent. They've been very clear about this.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Why did they agree to what?FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Than why did they agree?
Putin draws the line? What makes anyone think Putin draws the line at Ukraine? When has Russia stood by anything they say? Remember, they agreed to Ukraine. Until they didn't.
The creation of Ukraine. They agreed. Ukraine was not some breakaway Republic. There was a lot of negotiation. Now it is unacceptable?? 40 years later? Now as you say it is existential to Russia? BS.
That was AFTER Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 they voted to abandon neutrality. You think taking Crimea changed things s bit?
I really don't get the benefit of being a Putin surrogate. He took Crimea and invaded a neighboring Nation. You and Red have been going through months of mental/historic gymnastics to make thst not only OK, but the US\NATO/Ukraines fault.
He doesn't invade, no US/NATO weapons.
It's more likely that without the prospect of US/NATO weapons, Russia doesn't invade.
That has never been reported anywhere. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe - even if it the source was someone other than Putin. To paraphrase Pat Buchanan on Slick Willy, how do you know when Putin is lying . . . his lips are moving.
And you accuse others of moving the goalposts? LOL.
The US was not going to put Nuclear weapons in Ukraine. There's no need to do so. Where the hell do y'all come up with this shlt?KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Blinken told Putin in January 2022 that we reserved the right to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine. The only thing up for discussion was how many.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:They don't consider Ukraine's existence to be a threat. They consider Ukraine's military alliance with the West to be a threat, and that's why there was a neutrality agreement when Ukraine became independent. They've been very clear about this.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Why did they agree to what?FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Than why did they agree?
Putin draws the line? What makes anyone think Putin draws the line at Ukraine? When has Russia stood by anything they say? Remember, they agreed to Ukraine. Until they didn't.
The creation of Ukraine. They agreed. Ukraine was not some breakaway Republic. There was a lot of negotiation. Now it is unacceptable?? 40 years later? Now as you say it is existential to Russia? BS.
That was AFTER Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 they voted to abandon neutrality. You think taking Crimea changed things s bit?
I really don't get the benefit of being a Putin surrogate. He took Crimea and invaded a neighboring Nation. You and Red have been going through months of mental/historic gymnastics to make thst not only OK, but the US\NATO/Ukraines fault.
He doesn't invade, no US/NATO weapons.
It's more likely that without the prospect of US/NATO weapons, Russia doesn't invade.
The eventual placement of NATO nuclear weapons in Ukraine was completely unacceptable to the security of Russia.
The United States bares a significant amount of responsibility for the Russian response and the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Possibly the worst foreign policy blunder since US troops invaded North Korea while ignoring China's warnings that they would respond with a million troops.
And like a good cum dumpster, you lapped it up as if they were words in red from The Good Book.Sam Lowry said:Putin talked about it last week while delivering his ultimatum to Ukraine.sombear said:link?Sam Lowry said:Blinken told Putin in January 2022 that we reserved the right to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine. The only thing up for discussion was how many.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:They don't consider Ukraine's existence to be a threat. They consider Ukraine's military alliance with the West to be a threat, and that's why there was a neutrality agreement when Ukraine became independent. They've been very clear about this.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Why did they agree to what?FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Than why did they agree?
Putin draws the line? What makes anyone think Putin draws the line at Ukraine? When has Russia stood by anything they say? Remember, they agreed to Ukraine. Until they didn't.
The creation of Ukraine. They agreed. Ukraine was not some breakaway Republic. There was a lot of negotiation. Now it is unacceptable?? 40 years later? Now as you say it is existential to Russia? BS.
That was AFTER Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 they voted to abandon neutrality. You think taking Crimea changed things s bit?
I really don't get the benefit of being a Putin surrogate. He took Crimea and invaded a neighboring Nation. You and Red have been going through months of mental/historic gymnastics to make thst not only OK, but the US\NATO/Ukraines fault.
He doesn't invade, no US/NATO weapons.
It's more likely that without the prospect of US/NATO weapons, Russia doesn't invade.
Lol. Think he has any aim to stop this? I'd bet the aid to Ukraine ramps up if Trump is electedKaiBear said:Time to write a check to Trumps campaign.Doc Holliday said:BREAKING: Former President Trump says giving Ukrainian President Zelensky mass sums of “financial aid” has “got to stop.”
— Leading Report (@LeadingReport) June 17, 2024
We know how they plan to win the war in Ukraine. How do we plan to win it? How many missiles fired across Russia's border will it take? What's next if that doesn't work?ATL Bear said:Which version and period of time?Sam Lowry said:They already told us.ATL Bear said:Actually it isn't suicidal arrogance, it's practicality in our intertwined world. Russia is learning the lesson we did in Afghanistan. It's harder to end wars than it is to start them. Unfortunately for them, this isn't some low value backwoods hell hole, this was a nation on the brink of EU membership with Western aspirations so the resistance is greater and stakes higher. So yes, their end game is the critical ask.Sam Lowry said:So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Suicidal arrogance summed up in a line.
Well, Ukraine has nearly made Air Defense radar and missile sites in Crimea completely useless over the past month. Russia is having to divert what systems they have left to Belgorod region and further into Russia. Ukraine is also about to get a bunch of F16's from European nations. They will finish the job and the invasion of Crimea from Kherson will happen shortly after. Crimea will be under Ukrainian control again. Mark that down.Sam Lowry said:We know how they plan to win the war in Ukraine. How do we plan to win it? How many missiles fired across Russia's border will it take? What's next if that doesn't work?ATL Bear said:Which version and period of time?Sam Lowry said:They already told us.ATL Bear said:Actually it isn't suicidal arrogance, it's practicality in our intertwined world. Russia is learning the lesson we did in Afghanistan. It's harder to end wars than it is to start them. Unfortunately for them, this isn't some low value backwoods hell hole, this was a nation on the brink of EU membership with Western aspirations so the resistance is greater and stakes higher. So yes, their end game is the critical ask.Sam Lowry said:So we don't need a plan. We'll just win because we're right and they're wrong.ATL Bear said:You're asking for the end game of the wrong party.Sam Lowry said:
I'm asking for an end game, not a wish list. At this point our grievances, whether real or imagined, have led us to attack Russia's nuclear early warning system. How far do we escalate when that doesn't work? And to what end?
Suicidal arrogance summed up in a line.
What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
trey3216 said:The US was not going to put Nuclear weapons in Ukraine. There's no need to do so. Where the hell do y'all come up with this shlt?KaiBear said:Sam Lowry said:Blinken told Putin in January 2022 that we reserved the right to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine. The only thing up for discussion was how many.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:They don't consider Ukraine's existence to be a threat. They consider Ukraine's military alliance with the West to be a threat, and that's why there was a neutrality agreement when Ukraine became independent. They've been very clear about this.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Why did they agree to what?FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:No, you don't understand. We're not talking about the breakup of the Soviet Union. We're talking about the breakup of Russia itself. That's the threat that Putin believes he's fighting when he draws the line in Ukraine. This talk of decolonization only confirms what he's been saying.FLBear5630 said:Ok, this is where you are off base. It is already done and they did agree to it. You are making an argument that should have been made in 1992ish. This is not a conversation of HOW should the Soviet Union break apart, that ship has sailed. The borders were agreed upon and a lease cut for the port.Sam Lowry said:Remember how some of us have talked about the American goal of weakening and breaking up Russia? You'd probably call it a conspiracy theory. Sombear's sources call it "decolonization." It's the same thing. They're just bringing it out in the open now with a catchy new brand name.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
In reality it's the rough equivalent of saying the US should be made to divide itself along ethnic lines and give up parts of its territory to Hispanics, American Indians, and so on. What makes it spit take-worthy is the blatant hypocrisy. Obviously we would never agree to anything like that.
Now, 40 years later you are saying renegotiate or be invaded. And then actually invading. Saying this is what we think the borders should be now. So, basically there is NO discussion, NO renegotiation just do what we want or we attack you. And in 10 years if we decide we like something else, give it to us or you know what we will do. AND you are good with it.
Than why did they agree?
Putin draws the line? What makes anyone think Putin draws the line at Ukraine? When has Russia stood by anything they say? Remember, they agreed to Ukraine. Until they didn't.
The creation of Ukraine. They agreed. Ukraine was not some breakaway Republic. There was a lot of negotiation. Now it is unacceptable?? 40 years later? Now as you say it is existential to Russia? BS.
That was AFTER Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 they voted to abandon neutrality. You think taking Crimea changed things s bit?
I really don't get the benefit of being a Putin surrogate. He took Crimea and invaded a neighboring Nation. You and Red have been going through months of mental/historic gymnastics to make thst not only OK, but the US\NATO/Ukraines fault.
He doesn't invade, no US/NATO weapons.
It's more likely that without the prospect of US/NATO weapons, Russia doesn't invade.
The eventual placement of NATO nuclear weapons in Ukraine was completely unacceptable to the security of Russia.
The United States bares a significant amount of responsibility for the Russian response and the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Possibly the worst foreign policy blunder since US troops invaded North Korea while ignoring China's warnings that they would respond with a million troops.
I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I'd rather live, period. I don't need to dictate how Russians and Ukrainians live if it means WW3.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
WW3 is probably inevitable no matter what we do. Why let our enemies get stronger beforehand?Sam Lowry said:I'd rather live, period. I don't need to dictate how Russians and Ukrainians live if it means WW3.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
How many American cities are you willing to trade for Kharkiv?
Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Well said. We live in a country where we can vote out bad presidents.FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Sadly, that may become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But Russia is only an enemy because we've spent the last 30 years making them one (contrary to the advice of patriotic realists who knew better). We've been listening to neocon propaganda for so long that we've forgotten what sane foreign policy means.Bestweekeverr said:WW3 is probably inevitable no matter what we do. Why let our enemies get stronger beforehand?Sam Lowry said:I'd rather live, period. I don't need to dictate how Russians and Ukrainians live if it means WW3.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
How many American cities are you willing to trade for Kharkiv?
America shouldn't let Russia bully the world under a threat they have no interest in following up on.
Yes, poor Russia is blameless for why it is a diplomatic pariah for much of the developed world.Sam Lowry said:Sadly, that may become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But Russia is only an enemy because we've spent the last 30 years making them one (contrary to the advice of patriotic realists who knew better). We've been listening to neocon propaganda for so long that we've forgotten what sane foreign policy means.Bestweekeverr said:WW3 is probably inevitable no matter what we do. Why let our enemies get stronger beforehand?Sam Lowry said:I'd rather live, period. I don't need to dictate how Russians and Ukrainians live if it means WW3.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
How many American cities are you willing to trade for Kharkiv?
America shouldn't let Russia bully the world under a threat they have no interest in following up on.
So, how many cities?Bestweekeverr said:Yes, poor Russia is blameless for why it is a diplomatic pariah for much of the developed world.Sam Lowry said:Sadly, that may become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But Russia is only an enemy because we've spent the last 30 years making them one (contrary to the advice of patriotic realists who knew better). We've been listening to neocon propaganda for so long that we've forgotten what sane foreign policy means.Bestweekeverr said:WW3 is probably inevitable no matter what we do. Why let our enemies get stronger beforehand?Sam Lowry said:I'd rather live, period. I don't need to dictate how Russians and Ukrainians live if it means WW3.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
How many American cities are you willing to trade for Kharkiv?
America shouldn't let Russia bully the world under a threat they have no interest in following up on.
This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
When you do business, do you want your company to learn from its mistakes and improve? Or do you want it to double down on incompetence just to show you're strong and no one can tell you anything? How well does that work in the real world?FLBear5630 said:This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
As for cheerleading, sure is better than beating up your own people. Talk to Chinese, they are proud of their Nation and will defend 1China and China's expected place in the world. Talk to Russians, they are scared to talk against it because of how their countrymen will react. Talk to a lot of Americans, the US is responsible for all evil in the world or we are incompetent. Education system has done its job well.
But, you are a reasonable, sophisticated man, keep defending Putin He is counting on it. Meanwhile he holds people that go against Mother Russia in such contempt he assassinates and poisons them. I am sure he thinks highly of Americans pointing out America's flaws.
Perhaps you should go ask Vlad and his army of gangsters. They've been on the ferris wheel of doubling down and repeating old habits for decades now.Sam Lowry said:When you do business, do you want your company to learn from its mistakes and improve? Or do you want it to double down on incompetence just to show you're strong and no one can tell you anything? How well does that work in the real world?FLBear5630 said:This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
As for cheerleading, sure is better than beating up your own people. Talk to Chinese, they are proud of their Nation and will defend 1China and China's expected place in the world. Talk to Russians, they are scared to talk against it because of how their countrymen will react. Talk to a lot of Americans, the US is responsible for all evil in the world or we are incompetent. Education system has done its job well.
But, you are a reasonable, sophisticated man, keep defending Putin He is counting on it. Meanwhile he holds people that go against Mother Russia in such contempt he assassinates and poisons them. I am sure he thinks highly of Americans pointing out America's flaws.
Internal, you double down. Outward facing, you continue to show a strong, confident front. If you want a run on the banks or to close down show "the real problems" to the public?Sam Lowry said:When you do business, do you want your company to learn from its mistakes and improve? Or do you want it to double down on incompetence just to show you're strong and no one can tell you anything? How well does that work in the real world?FLBear5630 said:This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
As for cheerleading, sure is better than beating up your own people. Talk to Chinese, they are proud of their Nation and will defend 1China and China's expected place in the world. Talk to Russians, they are scared to talk against it because of how their countrymen will react. Talk to a lot of Americans, the US is responsible for all evil in the world or we are incompetent. Education system has done its job well.
But, you are a reasonable, sophisticated man, keep defending Putin He is counting on it. Meanwhile he holds people that go against Mother Russia in such contempt he assassinates and poisons them. I am sure he thinks highly of Americans pointing out America's flaws.
Most of them aren't monitored by Russia and China, they were created by Russia and China to sow the discord in the politesse that we've seen for the last 15-20 years and that you are speaking of.FLBear5630 said:Internal, you double down. Outward facing, you continue to show a strong, confident front. If you want a run on the banks or to close down show "the real problems" to the public?Sam Lowry said:When you do business, do you want your company to learn from its mistakes and improve? Or do you want it to double down on incompetence just to show you're strong and no one can tell you anything? How well does that work in the real world?FLBear5630 said:This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
As for cheerleading, sure is better than beating up your own people. Talk to Chinese, they are proud of their Nation and will defend 1China and China's expected place in the world. Talk to Russians, they are scared to talk against it because of how their countrymen will react. Talk to a lot of Americans, the US is responsible for all evil in the world or we are incompetent. Education system has done its job well.
But, you are a reasonable, sophisticated man, keep defending Putin He is counting on it. Meanwhile he holds people that go against Mother Russia in such contempt he assassinates and poisons them. I am sure he thinks highly of Americans pointing out America's flaws.
The US blaming Ukraine on Nuland does not make the US stronger. It does not give our allies confidence to stand by us. This is why Obama's apology tour was so bad. People say, it is only one person on a message board or just one person. You think that soldier defecting to North Korea was viewed as a positive?
What people think is level-headed and showing logical credibility is received by enemies as weakness and " a house divided". That is why I am so against the current Congressional make-up. AOC and her crowd AND MTG and her crowd are not helping the US on the world stage. Actually, they probably have more South American nations running to the Belt and Road Program. Total transparency is not a good thing if it re-enforces your enemies.
But, we have no internal pride left, it is more about what can I get and cash out. Sorry, but call me tin foil hat but I honestly believe these sites are monitored by China and Russia. That the message they send out to the US is crafted by what they read and to get more people believing for example that Nuland caused Ukraine and Russia is a victim.
Nobody here wants to live in an oligarchy like Russia.FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Yeah, that is my feeling. To make the enlightened feel special.trey3216 said:Most of them aren't monitored by Russia and China, they were created by Russia and China to sow the discord in the politesse that we've seen for the last 15-20 years and that you are speaking of.FLBear5630 said:Internal, you double down. Outward facing, you continue to show a strong, confident front. If you want a run on the banks or to close down show "the real problems" to the public?Sam Lowry said:When you do business, do you want your company to learn from its mistakes and improve? Or do you want it to double down on incompetence just to show you're strong and no one can tell you anything? How well does that work in the real world?FLBear5630 said:This is a Baylor Board, not the UN! I expect the pot shots from China, Russia, Iran, etc... Baylor? Not so much. There is enough negative propaganda against the US in the world, they don't need any help from inside the US.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
As for cheerleading, sure is better than beating up your own people. Talk to Chinese, they are proud of their Nation and will defend 1China and China's expected place in the world. Talk to Russians, they are scared to talk against it because of how their countrymen will react. Talk to a lot of Americans, the US is responsible for all evil in the world or we are incompetent. Education system has done its job well.
But, you are a reasonable, sophisticated man, keep defending Putin He is counting on it. Meanwhile he holds people that go against Mother Russia in such contempt he assassinates and poisons them. I am sure he thinks highly of Americans pointing out America's flaws.
The US blaming Ukraine on Nuland does not make the US stronger. It does not give our allies confidence to stand by us. This is why Obama's apology tour was so bad. People say, it is only one person on a message board or just one person. You think that soldier defecting to North Korea was viewed as a positive?
What people think is level-headed and showing logical credibility is received by enemies as weakness and " a house divided". That is why I am so against the current Congressional make-up. AOC and her crowd AND MTG and her crowd are not helping the US on the world stage. Actually, they probably have more South American nations running to the Belt and Road Program. Total transparency is not a good thing if it re-enforces your enemies.
But, we have no internal pride left, it is more about what can I get and cash out. Sorry, but call me tin foil hat but I honestly believe these sites are monitored by China and Russia. That the message they send out to the US is crafted by what they read and to get more people believing for example that Nuland caused Ukraine and Russia is a victim.
Neither is being the disgruntled teen where Mom and Dad are always wrong.Sam Lowry said:Because we're better than everyone else, what is it you think is supposed to happen? The world will give us a big hug and a gold sticker?FLBear5630 said:Agree. I remember when we were taught positive things about our Nation and it was a good thing to be an American.Bestweekeverr said:I think they just equate the West/NATO with leftist progressives and see Russia as a force against that.FLBear5630 said:What puzzles me is that I see Russia literally forcing Nations to do what they want, with tanks, and that is fine. I see China literally occupying Tibet, Hong Kong, and trying to get Taiwan with force.Bestweekeverr said:They want the US to be more like Russia.FLBear5630 said:You guys sure like Russia. Or maybe just dislike the US??? I don't know but there really seems to be support for Putin's Special Military Operation among a group. Really, struggling to see why invading another Nation is a "good thing", yet selling weapons to a Nation to defend itself is evil. Really puzzled...Sam Lowry said:sombear said:
These guys get it.Polish President Duda speaking at Zelensky’s peace summit in 🇨🇭:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) June 15, 2024
“Russia, called the ‘prison of nations,’ is home to 200+ ethnic groups, most acquired through colonial methods.
Unlike European powers, Russia never decolonized and remains the world's largest colonial empire” pic.twitter.com/tJEHTYC4dW
I don't see NATO or the US forcing anyone to apply, you have to apply and be accepted into NATO. Yet, according to some on this Board, the US is the bad guy... Poor Putin is being forced to invade Ukraine.
If the US WAS like Putin's Russia, the US would invade and hold Ukraine, invade and hold Cuba, and not allow navigation around the US. But, poor Putin. He is the real victim in this.
Just don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is that they are Attorneys and are trying to see if they can defend the indefensible. Some legal training exercise.
I think they would rather live in a dictatorship of their party than a democracy involving opposing views.
Now, all I hear about is the 20% we do poorly or screwed up and no mention of the 80% of the positives that come from living in the US and what the US does.
4 years under a screw up like Biden in American is still better than 1 day under a tyrant like Putin. But, I am sure there will be some on here that will say no. They live in the US, take advantage of the opportunities in the US, got educated in the US, yet the US is worse than Russia and poor victimized Putin. Amazing. I do miss Reagan and the esprit de corps that we seemed to feel. Just my opinion. I am sure I will hear how wrong I am...
Cheerleading isn't a strategy.
