sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

That losers club of broke, many rapidly depopulating, and backwards/dictatorial States is just an example of how over blown the Russian menace is....

Look at the nitwits and nobodies they have in their (very lose) association.

The only one even worth the time is China....who just uses Russia for raw resources....and is itself in population free fall.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

You should tell Biden. It's a quote from him back in 2002. Just to show how things have changed, and no honest observer can deny that they changed largely because of our rebuffs of Russia, not the other way around. Putin is still basically the same guy he was then.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself.

---

This is the part where you pretend NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was not an irrational (an guaranteed to be see as hostile) act?

And that does not even deal with the fact that USA secret alphabet agencies almost certainly were involved in the Kyiv coup of 2014 to throw out the old pro-Moscow government and install a new pro-DC one

[Mr. Kissinger said that The United States should have done more to anchor its vanquished adversary in the post-Cold War settlement just as the Concert [of Europe] integrated a defeated France into it ranks. Instead, Washington launched a process of NATO expansion that excluded Russia. Despite his initial support for NATO enlargement, Mr. [Henry] Kissinger understood that opening the alliance to Ukraine would provoke Moscow, writing in 2014 that Ukraine should function as a "bridge" between East and West and that the country "should not join NATO." Instead, NATO beckoned Ukraine, contributing to the sense of grievance and threat that climaxed in Vladimir Putin's invasion last year.]

---

And you leave out the Russian plant that was run out! Where did he go to when he lost? Russia because he was a Russian plant. You guys are only pissed because Russia lost this game they started. You can say with a straight face that the old Ukrainian President wasn't a Russian Proxy? They played a game of "coup" and lost, than Putin threw a tantrum and invaded. Come on, tell it like it is.

Using your logic, should we invade Venezula now? Russia clearly helped Maduro win. Yet, I don't see Marine Expeditionary Brigade on their way to Venezula

---

Russia played a game of coup in Ukraine? Now that's what I call a conspiracy theory! Can't wait to hear the evidence for that.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

That losers club of broke, many rapidly depopulating, and backwards/dictatorial States is just an example of how over blown the Russian menace is....

Look at the nitwits and nobodies they have in their (very lose) association.

The only one even worth the time is China....who just uses Russia for raw resources....and is itself in population free fall.

---

You far underestimate China.

Some of those nitwits have nukes and are led by nutjobs.

Some are exerting major influence in their regions.

All absolutely despise us and our freedom and will do anything they can to undermine us.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

You should tell Biden. It's a quote from him back in 2002. Just to show how things have changed, and no honest observer can deny that they changed largely because of our rebuffs of Russia, not the other way around. Putin is still basically the same guy he was then.

---

I think we found something we agree on. Putin is the same guys he was then . . . and same guy he was as a KGB agent and same guy he was as an academic writing about reconstituting the Soviet empire.

---

He is not talking about reconstituting the Soviet empire. Western propaganda is completely at odds with his actual statements on that.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

That losers club of broke, many rapidly depopulating, and backwards/dictatorial States is just an example of how over blown the Russian menace is....

Look at the nitwits and nobodies they have in their (very lose) association.

The only one even worth the time is China....who just uses Russia for raw resources....and is itself in population free fall.

---

You far underestimate China.

---

I don't think so....the Han are a remarkably intelligent and hard working people.

Yet having a single party (corrupt) Communist party in control negates those natural advantages.

Its not surprising that The People's Republic of China is the LEAST successful Chinese majority State or Statelet (Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau)

And no matter what else...you can't out run demographics. You must have workers and soldiers to be a great power (and young ones at that)

[China's population has been declining rapidly, and the country is facing a demographic crisis. In 2023, China's population fell by 2.8 million... This is the second year in a row that China's population has declined, and the decrease was larger than in 2022. The working-age population (1659 years) also declined by over 10 million...with the percentage of people aged 60 and older projected to increase from 17.8% in 2020 to 32% in 2040. By 2050, the United Nations projects that China will have 366 million older adults, which is more than the entire current US population.]

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself.

---

This is the part where you pretend NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was not an irrational (an guaranteed to be see as hostile) act?

And that does not even deal with the fact that USA secret alphabet agencies almost certainly were involved in the Kyiv coup of 2014 to throw out the old pro-Moscow government and install a new pro-DC one

[Mr. Kissinger said that The United States should have done more to anchor its vanquished adversary in the post-Cold War settlement just as the Concert [of Europe] integrated a defeated France into it ranks. Instead, Washington launched a process of NATO expansion that excluded Russia. Despite his initial support for NATO enlargement, Mr. [Henry] Kissinger understood that opening the alliance to Ukraine would provoke Moscow, writing in 2014 that Ukraine should function as a "bridge" between East and West and that the country "should not join NATO." Instead, NATO beckoned Ukraine, contributing to the sense of grievance and threat that climaxed in Vladimir Putin's invasion last year.]

---

And you leave out the Russian plant that was run out! Where did he go to when he lost? Russia because he was a Russian plant. You guys are only pissed because Russia lost this game they started. You can say with a straight face that the old Ukrainian President wasn't a Russian Proxy? They played a game of "coup" and lost, than Putin threw a tantrum and invaded. Come on, tell it like it is.

Using your logic, should we invade Venezula now? Russia clearly helped Maduro win. Yet, I don't see Marine Expeditionary Brigade on their way to Venezula

---

Russia played a game of coup in Ukraine? Now that's what I call a conspiracy theory! Can't wait to hear the evidence for that.

---

Really Sam? You are now going to tell us how independent Yanukovych was and had no ties to Russia. Where is he now?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I think you mean disproportionately old. The idea that Ukraine has a largely young population and is saving it for a rainy day while their aging army collapses is completely illogical.

As for the women, they'll be better off under Russian rule than fleeing west to fill the brothels of Europe. Those poor souls will be putting the "slav" in slavery for years to come, naturally without a word of complaint from the West. It's the only thing Europe really likes about them.

---

Given the fact that your Russian comrades are raping their way across Ukraine, I suspect if you ask a Ukrainian woman, she might feel she's better off working at a brothel in Europe.

---

Few Westerners bother to talk to Ukrainians under Russian rule...

---

What's the scoop?

Let me guess: they recommend to just sit back and enjoy it.

---

They're not just sitting back by any means. They've been fighting the Kiev regime for ten years and counting. Anti-Russian resistance is virtually non-existent in the Donbas. It's minimal in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, where most of your horror stories come from. Many of the separatists are former Ukrainian military. The civilian population has suffered wanton attacks from Western proxies for years. The Russians are widely considered liberators, and with good reason.

---

Thanks for the scoop. So, it's the Ukrainians raping and killing the Ukrainians.

Of course.

Thank God for the Russian "liberators." Afterall, it's far better to live under Russian rule than any Western democracy.

---

Ukrainians have been engaged in a civil war, yes.

Most of them live a long way from any Western democracy...and even the Poles are halfway glad to see them suffering.

---

Dang, who knew the Russians were getting such a bad rap - well, outside of you of course. I'm glad to hear that. The Russians are the good guys and all the many reports we hear about them committing atrocities is just anti-Russian propaganda.

It's probably because the Russians are just trying to save Christianity.

---

I condemn such crimes whether committed in Ukraine or Abu Ghraib. Does that really matter? I'm sure you didn't bring it up just to let me condemn what we all agree is wrong. You brought it up to distract from the issue of our crimes against the Ukrainian people.

---

Does it really matter? You guys are constantly bring up Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia every past event that has nothing to do with today.

---

Depends on the context

---

Quote:

---

.We are not discussing the intricacies of SALT 2 or the impact of missiles in Turkey. You are advocating for the invasion of a sovereign Nation by Russia over phone calls and posturing.

Sorry, I feel pretty strongly that I have the high ground on this one. Putin is wrong.

Comparing to Iraq? I agree Iraq was the wrong move. The no-fly with inspectors was working. Bush being wrong about the Invasion of Iraq doesn't make Putin OK on Ukraine.

---

---

The point is that Russia acted rationally in response to the Iraq War instead of acting like it was the beginning of WW3. If the US could do the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

---

Rational? How more rational could the US and NATO act? They gave military hardware for Ukraine to defend itself.

---

This is the part where you pretend NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was not an irrational (an guaranteed to be see as hostile) act?

And that does not even deal with the fact that USA secret alphabet agencies almost certainly were involved in the Kyiv coup of 2014 to throw out the old pro-Moscow government and install a new pro-DC one

[Mr. Kissinger said that The United States should have done more to anchor its vanquished adversary in the post-Cold War settlement just as the Concert [of Europe] integrated a defeated France into it ranks. Instead, Washington launched a process of NATO expansion that excluded Russia. Despite his initial support for NATO enlargement, Mr. [Henry] Kissinger understood that opening the alliance to Ukraine would provoke Moscow, writing in 2014 that Ukraine should function as a "bridge" between East and West and that the country "should not join NATO." Instead, NATO beckoned Ukraine, contributing to the sense of grievance and threat that climaxed in Vladimir Putin's invasion last year.]

---

And you leave out the Russian plant that was run out! Where did he go to when he lost? Russia because he was a Russian plant. You guys are only pissed because Russia lost this game they started. You can say with a straight face that the old Ukrainian President wasn't a Russian Proxy? They played a game of "coup" and lost, than Putin threw a tantrum and invaded. Come on, tell it like it is.

Using your logic, should we invade Venezula now? Russia clearly helped Maduro win. Yet, I don't see Marine Expeditionary Brigade on their way to Venezula

---

Russia played a game of coup in Ukraine? Now that's what I call a conspiracy theory! Can't wait to hear the evidence for that.

---

Really Sam? You are now going to tell us how independent Yanukovych was and had no ties to Russia. Where is he now?

---

I didn't say he didn't have ties. That's a far cry from what you're claiming.

Yanukovych was fairly elected, at least by Ukrainian standards. It's awfully bold to assert that his government was less legitimate than the coup regime.

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

Ukr birth data 1H 2024 vs (1H 2023)

87,655 births (96,755) -9.4%

Would mean 170k births if decline sustained through ‘24. Almost down to level of Netherlands. With 28m people, means CBR of 6.1/1000, similar level to Italy. TFR around 1.2 by my est.https://t.co/om3RxAHPAP

— Annatar (@Annatar_I) August 3, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Conspiracy theories now?

Russia, Iran, China are in a lose (very lose) association…they are not even formal allies.

And they are only untied in so much as they dislike the DC led world order.

They can (and will) turn on each other in a heart beat.

And Russia already owned the Kaliningrad oblast (the old Konigsburg/East Prussia province stolen from the Germans by Stalin)…if Russia thinks NATO will not wipe them out if they try to take the Baltic States they will soon find out.

Russia can not even take the regions of Ukraine in the east…much less take on the full might of NATO.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

ConNah,spiracy theories now?

Russia, Iran, China are in a lose (very lose) association…they are not even formal allies.

And they are only untied in so much as they dislike the DC led world order.

They can (and will) turn on each other in a heart beat.

And Russia already owned the Kaliningrad oblast (the old Konigsburg/East Prussia province stolen from the Germans by Stalin)…if Russia thinks NATO will not wipe them out if they try to take the Baltic States they will soon find out.

Russia can not even take the regions of Ukraine in the east…much less take on the full might of NATO.

---

Nah, just looking at the facts from the Iran situation, Russia's visit with NK, Chinese/Russian Bombers in AK, now the Google ban, etc... These are all facts, not speculation. They should get people's guard up.

I don't think you get what a conspiracy theory is if you think getting your guard up from actions that are occurring is a conspiracy theory. Maybe that is why you don't get the Ukraine being Russia's fault fact.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

ConNah,spiracy theories now?

Russia, Iran, China are in a lose (very lose) association…they are not even formal allies.

And they are only untied in so much as they dislike the DC led world order.

They can (and will) turn on each other in a heart beat.

And Russia already owned the Kaliningrad oblast (the old Konigsburg/East Prussia province stolen from the Germans by Stalin)…if Russia thinks NATO will not wipe them out if they try to take the Baltic States they will soon find out.

Russia can not even take the regions of Ukraine in the east…much less take on the full might of NATO.

---

Nah, just looking at the facts from the Iran situation, Russia's visit with NK, Chinese/Russian Bombers in AK, now the Google ban, etc... These are all facts, not speculation. They should get people's guard up.

I don't think you get what a conspiracy theory is if you think getting your guard up from actions that are occurring is a conspiracy theory. Maybe that is why you don't get the Ukraine being Russia's fault fact.

---

They are not capable of working that closely together or in coordinating operations.

Now China might to do something like invade Taiwan while the West was occupied with Ukraine. But that is a long shot anyway (China most likely can't even accomplish such a task)….but they would not work actively with Russia and might not even bother to inform Moscow at all.

FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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And good grief, how miserable and nihilistic does our political class have to be, risking Western civilization in an obviously failed war over a backwater country because they can't afford to lose face? They value nothing except money and power. Everything else is expendable. If you ever wanted wanted an example of cultural despair, you're looking right at it.

---

If you think Western Civilization is at risk over modest military aid to a "backwater country" trying to defend itself against a despotic invader, you are the very over dramatic weakling bent on the precise decline you claim to abhor.

---

If you want to confront a nuclear power without factoring in that risk, you're being naive. Neocons are often referred to as liberals who got mugged by "reality." In other words, you're witnessing what happens when the flower power generation gets actual power and figures out that their utopian ideas can't be realized without violence. Of course utopian ideas are never realized, but no one in post-modern America wants to hear that.

---

Nary an ideal throughout history has been realized without violence whether it is actual or the threat therof. That's the Utopian navet you and many others can't fathom. This isn't about neocon, neo liberal, isolationism or populism. The nuclear equation is already cast when rogue despotism armed as such is in existence. When it actively asserts itself it played the card of requiring an address.

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Except that the only rogue actor here is NATO. We're the ones who flagrantly violate national sovereignty at our every whim, while Russia takes decades to try to negotiate a solution.

We had a rules-based international order. Too bad we weren't satisfied with it

---

which national sovereignty did Nato violate?
Specific examples, please.

---

[The 78-day NATO bombing campaign against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) in 1999, known as Operation Allied Force, was illegal because it was not authorized by the UN Security Council. NATO attempted to gain authorization, but other security council members threatened to veto the measure, so NATO launched the campaign without UN approval, calling it a humanitarian intervention.]

Still waiting for the explanation of how NATO got involved in a war where no NATO members were apart of the conflict...and how that was just.

---

I was quite sure you would toss up Afghanistan as an example, but very much appreciate you pointing out that Nato did NOT invade FRY. It was a bombing campaign to stop a bona fide crisis during the break-up of a failed state (FRY) in which one of the component parts wans engaging in military action in pursuit of ethnic cleansing. It was not an effort to seize control of all or parts of the FRY. There was no invasion. Just bombing to deplete assets being used to target civilians.

Are you saying Nato has no interest whatsoever in what happens in a nation not just contiguous to its borders, but is actually wholly within (surrounded by) Nato? A failed state in which ethnic cleansing was occurring? Ethnic cleansing which causes uncontrolled refugee flows? Are you saying civil war and ethnic cleansing and mass migration are not a threat to regional instability? (at this point you might want to refer to international law about rights/responsibilities of states.)

That's why the Russian "little green men" in Donbas are relevant to the discussion. Russia used special forces actions to pick at ethnic tensions in Donbas, which elevated tensions and created space for irregular forces, which in turn created actual civil war (which would give Russia grounds for intervention). The difference is, Russia provoked with purpose of inflaming existing tensions, then invaded for the purpose of keeping Donbas, complete with forced relocation of ethnic Ukranian citizens to far-flung parts of Russia. Nato did none of that, seeking to end the crisis WITHOUT invading or seizing an inch of the FRY. Nato was only interested in regional stability.

Very bad example you picked here......

Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower.

---

LMAO. Not even close to reality.

Realitybites said:

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boognish_bear said:

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There is no moral or practical equivalence here. We bend over backward to deliver our civilians from persecution. In return, they get tactical or strategic assets lawfully convicted by democratically responsive regimes. Americans, don’t go to Russia.

— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) August 1, 2024

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There are around 100,000 American ctizens living in Russia in 2024. Why do you think it was that these two were singled out for arrest and prosecution? It is a perfectly fine place to go so long as you follow their laws. Try and import drugs, engage in espionage, or bring drag queen story time to a Russian library and you are going to see the inside of a Russian prison.

The charge against the WSJ reporter was "It was established that E. Gershkovich, acting on the assignment of the American side, collected information constituting a government secret about the activities of one of the enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex" Do you think that it was a mere coincidence that of all the things he could have chosen to report on, he was doing a story on the Wagner group? What happens to an American citizen in the US in posession of classified information, even inadvertently? I guess that depends on if you are a Republican President or a Democrat one.

As far as bending over backwards to protect civilians from persecution, ask anyone subject to the DOJ's political lawfare over the past four years how true that statement is.

Some of you sound like Hillary Clinton with her Russia! Russia! Russia! meme.

---

Journalists are terrible assets for anything other than placement of articles in their publication. They are highly visible, gadding about town meeting in public with sources, in a profession routinely singled out for extra scrutiny by autocratic regimes. Worst cover for status imaginable for an intel officer.

to that, we must add that Gershkovich is Jewish, that his (also Jewish) parents are Russian emigrees. That's two marks against him. then he shows up in Russia as a western journalist (another two marks against him, one for being a westerner, another being a journalist). To boot, he is not just some minor blogger seeking to make a name for himself. He's a correspondent to one of the largest and most influential newspapers in the world (5th mark against him). Then he actually did some journalism. (6th mark). Being a WSJ correspondent made him high value (guaranteed to make news), much in the same way that Brittney's Griner's status worked against her when she was arrested. Some random black woman with a vape pen with opiod residues in it would not have been worth the nickel to prosecute and jail. But an American sports star.....big news stories. High PR value. High negotiating value.

Don't presume Russia is embarrassed by acting this way. Russia thinks it's demonstrating strength when it does stuff like this.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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"All resources in Russian economy are exhausted. Inflation is rising, interest rates cannot be significantly increased. Extreme lack of the workforce. Adding money from reserves to market will just increase inflation without bringing new growth. Russia is likely facing stagnation… pic.twitter.com/rXRQULbrKt

— Jaanika Merilo (@jaanikamerilo) July 29, 2024

---

2.6% unemployment rate is full employment, which means, from this point forward, every single soldier mobilized and sent to the front has a negative effect on GDP. Sure, Russia can keep transferring resources to keep war production at current levels, but they can't do it forever. Eventually people are going to need new clothes, new cars, replacement household items, etc......

Russia will be able to sustain current war production into at least the summer of 2025, but they stay at that level indefinitely. They'll have to increasingly rob Peter (private sector) to pay Paul (war production).

---

More importantly than that is the loss of any solider is a devastating thing for Russia.

They don't have the birth rate to replace any losses.


[Russia's death rate has been higher than its birth rate for years, resulting in a natural population decline. In 2022, Russia's crude birth rate was 8.9 per 100,000 people, the lowest it's been since 2000, while its death rate was about 1.7 times higher than its birth rate. Russia's fertility rate is also one of the lowest in the world, with women having an average of 1.42 children in 2022, compared to the 2.1 children needed to maintain the population]

---

indeed. But Russia doesn't care about that if they subsume Ukraine into the Russia. They pick up 40m people, disproportionately young & female (given that Ukraine is fighting this war with +30 year old men).

---

I doubt they even want to try to "subsume" the whole of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

It was pretty obvious the plan for the war in Ukraine was to drive to Kyiv and install a more friendly (puppet) government in Ukraine.

Not much different than the US strategy in Iraq in 2003

Only difference is that Russia (who is not a major military power) could not even accomplish that simple task against a much smaller adversary....while the USA (who is a major military power) could and did accomplish a similar task in a matter of weeks.

---

they have stated it multiple times, increasingly so. Publicly.

---

I have seen them cast doubt on the historic nature of the Ukrainian state…but that is propaganda for internal Russian consumption. Along with excuse making for how they are allowed to invade another nation (the excuse being that Ukraine is not a nation….obviously when Ukraine had a pro-Russian government they never made such foolish claims)

I have never seen them say they want to physically absorb all of ukriane into Russia…

Not to mention they can't actually do it…they have yet to even take all of the Donbas…much less central or western Ukraine where they have little to no support.

I don't think Russia wants to do it…and they can't even if they foolishly decided that was the course they would follow.

We could not occupy Iraq forever and they can not occupy Ukraine forever

---

I can't be your news service. Please keep up.

How does Russia plan to "de-Natzify" Ukraine if it does not control all of Ukraine?

---

Plan A: Negotiated agreement.

Plan B: Destroy the Ukrainian army.

Not a difficult question.

---

You mean to say that Russia would withdraw its armies from Ukraine (without seizing all of it) as long as the Ukrainian government promised to "deNatzify"?

How exactly does one destroy the Ukrainian Army without controlling all of Ukraine?

You are not being serious here.

---

They would have withdrawn the small army that was there in spring 2022, at least outside of the Donbas. What they would have done with their troops in the Donbas is unclear, as I believe the draft agreement was silent on that issue and it was one of the points to be discussed by Putin and Zelensky.

They're destroying Ukraine's army by fighting it to the last Ukrainian. Strangely enough that seems to be the one policy that all parties agree on.

FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

---

Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

---

Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

---

NATO is not intervening unless Putin goes in to Poland or goes after the Baltics. He does not seem that stupid. But who knows.

whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

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Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

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Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

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No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

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I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

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That losers club of broke, many rapidly depopulating, and backwards/dictatorial States is just an example of how over blown the Russian menace is....

Look at the nitwits and nobodies they have in their (very lose) association.

The only one even worth the time is China....who just uses Russia for raw resources....and is itself in population free fall.

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You far underestimate China.

Some of those nitwits have nukes and are led by nutjobs.

Some are exerting major influence in their regions.

All absolutely despise us and our freedom and will do anything they can to undermine us.

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They have rejected the pathway to power that Korea and Japan and Germany have chosen = to enrich their countries by joining and cooperating with other great powers. They have taken the pathway of allying with weaker powers working jointly to destabilize the existing international order.

If they are not resisted, they will be successful..

So difficult to understand how someone could think ignoring problems is good policy.

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1. Well to be fair Japan and Germany did not have much a of a choice.

They were incorporated into the international order (American empire) via force.

Both were crushed in a world war and left in rubble…Germany alone lost 40% of its territory and was disassembled for a while.








2. I don't think China is interested in overthrowing the current world order…it makes a lot of money providing products to the U.S. and EU

And it needs the U.S. navy to keep the oceans free for trade.

They seem more opportunistic and are just looking to tilt things in their favor.

Aka the way they have taken advantage of the Russian fall out with the West to get cheaper raw materials and natural gas from Moscow

FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

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We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

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Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

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Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

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Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

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Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

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NATO is not intervening unless Putin goes in to Poland or goes after the Baltics. He does not seem that stupid. But who knows.

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I don't see NATO going to war over the Baltic States.

The people in Western Europe don't give a **** about them.

Maybe if Russia attacked Poland; but even then there would be several NATO members doing the minimum.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Russians are on the ground right now supporting their close friend. But we're the bad guy and Putin is just misunderstood.

Disgusting dictator methods by Maduro…

Maduro releases a video showing 75 young protesters captured by Maduro’s thugs

They have put them in jail and forced them to raise “a communist fist” and chant slogans in honor of Hugo Chavez

Via @AlertaMundoNews pic.twitter.com/ucrA8VLI5f

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) August 2, 2024

---

Come on now...you having to engage in feminine coded snark and attribute statements to others does not help your cause.

Putin can be an ex-KGB thug and the USA can have no business in a costly ukraine proxy war...all at the same time.

Russia has no business in the American sphere of influence (the entire Western Hemisphere)....and we have no business playing around inside of theirs

---

Actually although you and I mostly disagree on Ukraine, you are not one to defend Putin/Russia. This was not direct at you. There are others who consistently give Putin the benefit of the doubt and recoil when I call him evil or a true enemy.

---

No Russian leader since Peter the Great has cast his lot as much with the West as Putin has.

---

I didn't know Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, North Korea, Iran, Syrian, and China were now considered the West.

---

That losers club of broke, many rapidly depopulating, and backwards/dictatorial States is just an example of how over blown the Russian menace is....

Look at the nitwits and nobodies they have in their (very lose) association.

The only one even worth the time is China....who just uses Russia for raw resources....and is itself in population free fall.

---

You far underestimate China.

Some of those nitwits have nukes and are led by nutjobs.

Some are exerting major influence in their regions.

All absolutely despise us and our freedom and will do anything they can to undermine us.

---

They have rejected the pathway to power that Korea and Japan and Germany have chosen = to enrich their countries by joining and cooperating with other great powers. They have taken the pathway of allying with weaker powers working jointly to destabilize the existing international order.

If they are not resisted, they will be successful..

So difficult to understand how someone could think ignoring problems is good policy.

---

1. Well to be fair Japan and Germany did not have much a of a choice.

They were incorporated into the international order (American empire) via force.

Both were crushed in a world war and left in rubble…Germany alone lost 40% of its territory and was disassembled for a while.








2. I don't think China is interested in overthrowing the current world order…it makes a lot of money providing products to the U.S. and EU

And it needs the U.S. navy to keep the oceans free for trade.

They seem more opportunistic and are just looking to tilt things in their favor.

Aka the way they have taken advantage of the Russian fall out with the West to get cheaper raw materials and natural gas from Moscow

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China needs resources, it can only get them expanding. They have already expanded, people just dont talk about it. Tibet, Manchuria, India, Napal, Viet Nam, Bhutan, and that does not include the South China Sea. Maritime expansion is just as bad as land in that part of the world. Philipines, Singapore, Korea, Japan, etc. China is in an expansion mode, but like Russia, they make excuses for why it is Ok. You rail on the US imperialism yet we have not expanded near as much as either.

KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

---

Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

---

NATO is not intervening unless Putin goes in to Poland or goes after the Baltics. He does not seem that stupid. But who knows.

---

I don't see NATO going to war over the Baltic States.

The people in Western Europe don't give a **** about them.

Maybe if Russia attacked Poland; but even then there would be several NATO members doing the minimum.

---

I agree with you. I think the next line to test, since we showed Ukraine is not worth fight for, is the Baltics or Romania. Will NATO go to war for a former Soviet block NATO member? We will have the Sam's telling us about historic influence and the Redbears telling us it is the US fault and the others saying not worth US soldier dying. Putin will test that line...

Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

---

Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

---

Russia isn't starting a war with anyone anytime soon because their conventional military capabilities have been exposed for what they are. Only a fool believe Russia is stronger now than it was before the war.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

BREAKING:

Russia to block Google, IOS and Android.

Aleksei Didenko, a member of the Russian State Duma, has announced that Google, along with its Android operating system and Apple's iOS, will soon be blocked in Russia. pic.twitter.com/SUTx3s7FvA

— Globe Eye News (@GlobeEyeNews) August 2, 2024

---

We better start coordinating better with NATO, Asia and Aus/NZ. Russia and China are positioning for a move. Iran with Israel and N Korea making munitions deals with Russia. Now this.

Whiterock, are you hearing anything that Russia is not showing its true capabilities in Ukraine? It is using basically the B and C teams? Just curious, not liking the chess board at the current time. Also, Asian allies in line? Curious...

---

Russia has large numbers of troops still waiting to join battle. Ukraine can't mobilize fast enough to create reserves at this point; they're just plugging holes.

Pokrovsk may well be the last nail in the coffin. Absolutely crucial supply hub linking the northeastern and southwestern halves of the front.

---

Where we differ, is that I believe Ukraine was the test case. When we allowed it to happen, the dominoes started falling. They are going for it all before the Nov election. Iran, Russia and China are all setting up the Board.

Too many things. Ukraine is not the end game for Russia. Next is Kalinburg Oblesk and the Baltics. They don't believe NATO will do a thing.

---

Their biggest concern is whether NATO will intervene directly in Ukraine. That's why they're making alliances, stockpiling ammo, conserving manpower. Even if they wanted to attack Kaliningrad or the Baltics, which I don't think they do, it would be a way down the road.

---

Yeah, it is much easier for them to subjugate their neighbors if nobody does anything. Silly NATO not realizing that...

You are really serious with this stuff? If NATO just agreed to stay out of it, Russia will go into Ukraine and sanitize it. What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Dr Evil line from Austin Powers movie. You really believe this stuff?

---

Whether NATO should intervene is another question. I'm just explaining why it makes no sense for Russia to start another war right now.

---

Russia isn't starting a war with anyone anytime soon because their conventional military capabilities have been exposed for what they are. Only a fool believe Russia is stronger now than it was before the war.

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They're quite obviously stronger, but that's beside the point. They're not stronger in a way that enables them to go on the offensive against NATO.