Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 3 hrs ago by Redbrickbear
historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Incorrect. Words matter.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
"First World" is a term with a specific definition: it is defined by all the NATO nations and those aligned with NATO.
"Second World" is defined by all the nations of the Warsaw Pact.
"Third World" is defined by all the other nations.
It does not mean poor. Like fascism, it often is misused and has become a pejorative for poor nations, but it has a specific definition. India is not a "third world" nation because it is poor but because it was "unaligned."
I wonder what his nom de guerre is on here. His rhetoric sounds very familiar.
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russia-ukraine-american-spy-daniel-martindale-fc7b51f5?st=JCauJA&reflink=article_copyURL_share
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russia-ukraine-american-spy-daniel-martindale-fc7b51f5?st=JCauJA&reflink=article_copyURL_share
Quote:
.The American Who Went Undercover in Ukrainefor Moscow
Daniel Martindale's decision to become a spy comes amid a growing ultraconservative embrace of Russian values
By Brett Forrest and Vera Bergengruen
Feb. 19, 2025 at 9:03 pm ET
As Russian troops poured across Ukraine's border in the opening hours of the February 2022 invasion, Daniel Martindale pedaled through Kyiv, weighted down with suppliesand a secret.
Riding a scavenged mountain bike, the red-bearded 31-year-old from Indiana was planning to offer his services to Russian troops on the front line.
At first, he didn't get far. Ukrainian security agents on high alert in Kyiv detained the unusual visitor, letting him continue his ride east the next morning only after deciding he was no saboteur.
It was the beginning of a high-risk descent into espionage and betrayal for the self-described Christian missionary. The journey would land Martindale in Moscow after he worked undercover in eastern Ukraine for more than two years, secretly calling in Russian attacks on Ukrainian troops and border towns.
To Martindale, Russia symbolized the traditional values that he believed his own country had forsaken. "I realized that I want to be in Russia if World War III starts," he said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "I did not want there to be any chance that I would be fighting on the wrong side."
While his actions may have been extreme, Martindale's view of Russia as a sanctuary from a Western world he believed had lost its way underscores a shift among some American ultraconservatives. Once deriding Russia for its chaos and venality, they now idealize it as the one major power willing to oppose the U.S. and its allies, while arguing that the West provoked Russian President Vladimir Putin into attacking Ukraine.
This worldview migrated from the fringe this week as the Trump administration opened bilateral talks with Russia in Riyadh Tuesday, putting a dramatic end to three years of diplomatic isolation for Moscow and opening a yawning rift with Ukraine. At a news conference, President Trump blamed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for starting the war and failing to pursue a peace deal.
When Zelensky shot back that Trump was parroting a Russian propaganda narrative, Trump took to social media to call his counterpart a "dictator" whose country had stolen U.S. aid. This about-face from the White House, casting Russia as a partner for peace, was celebrated across far-right media channels.
Putin's outreach
Moscow has cultivated Western conservatives like Martindale in recent years, presenting itself as an ideological ally to Americans disaffected with their own country.
In August, Putin established a temporary-residency visa for anyone who opposes the "destructive neoliberal ideological agenda" in their countries and shares "traditional Russian spiritual and moral values." According to Russian state statistics, nearly 5,000 Westerners have received temporary residency in the country since the beginning of 2022, a sharp increase over preceding decades.
A new "Welcome to Russia" office has been set up to help clear their path to a new life and showcase Western families that have emigrated to the country. The effort is headed by Russian parliamentarian Maria Butina, who was convicted in U.S. federal court of acting as an unregistered foreign agent in 2018.
"There is a place in this world where you can live traditional family values, like your best vision of 1950s America," said Joseph Rose, a YouTuber from Florida who moved to Russia in 2022 and lives in Moscow with his wife and four children. "That place exists right now, and it's here in Russia."
'Homesick'
Daniel Martindale grew up riding tractors on farms in upstate New York and Indiana. His parents, Jim and Sandy, instilled in their seven children a deep suspicion of the U.S. government over policies they believed were "defiling" the country. Dan was home-schooled with his siblings, and started classes with a prayer.
In 2001, the family moved to rural China after Jim Martindale began working with a Christian missionary group that helped refugees from North Korea. He took a job building a dairy farm to employ the refugees near the city of Hunchun, wedged between North Korea and Russia, he said.
Living in China enabled the American family to pursue their interest in working the soil while preaching the Gospela life they call "marketplace evangelism."
They befriended a neighbor who said he had been a Russian military-intelligence officer. The former spy and his wife took the Martindales over the border into Russia's Far East and extolled the country's supposed support of Christian values and the purity of its agriculture.
They showed the American family abandoned collective farms with vast tracts of land near the port city of Vladivostok, which they said could be leased for 25 cents an acre. The experience sparked in Dan Martindale a deep attraction to Russia.
Even after the family returned to Indiana, "his heart was in Russia," his father said. "And his goal was to live there, marry a good Russian woman, and farm."
Martindale says he went through a transformation watching the 2005 documentary "Loose Change," which claimed falsely that Washington was responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq left him even more disillusioned with his country.
"Washington is my enemy," he later wrote in a blog post. "They literally are at war with their own citizens since 2001."
He studied mechanical engineering and worked with his father selling farm equipment. After saving up for years, Dan took the step he had long dreamed of and moved to Russia in 2018. Returning to the Far East, he studied Russian in Vladivostok and taught English in his spare time.
Four years earlier, the Kremlin had annexed Crimea and fomented a war in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region. Eight time zones away, Martindale immersed himself in local life.
A year into Martindale's stay, Russian authorities deported him for violating labor laws for foreign students and banned him from returning for five years, according to his father. "That was heartbreaking, honestly," Martindale said.
Desperate to find a way to return, he enrolled in 2020 at a veterinarian school in Belarus but was turned away by authorities at an airport in Minsk. He moved to southern Poland, teaching English and living in a church at the invitation of priests during the Covid-19 pandemic.
He was homesick "not for the USA, but for Russia," he wrote on a blog years later. When Russian troops massed on the Ukrainian border in early 2022, he decided to act.
Crossing over
After finding a mountain bike in a trash heap near Krakow, Martindale crossed the Ukrainian border in early February 2022. He rode against a flow of Ukrainians fleeing their country on foot, some carrying no more than a change of clothes.
Daniel told people he encountered that he was on a Christian mission. From Lviv, near Ukraine's western border, Martindale hitched a ride to Kyiv.
As the car approached the Ukrainian capital, Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine was just beginning.
Tank columns poured south from Belarus. Russian attack helicopters landed commandos at a military airfield near Kyiv, igniting a battle for its control. Paratroopers jumped into the capital's outskirts, where Ukrainian forces decimated them. In Moscow, military commanders watched their plans to seize Kyiv crumble, auguring a protracted war.
Martindale contacted Russian forces by phone via an account on the Telegram messaging app that was meant to lure Ukrainian soldiers to surrender.
"I asked them for an opportunity to meet up with Russian troops," he said in an interview. "They encouraged me to travel east further. And so that's what I did."
At night, Ukrainian air defense batteries launched missiles at incoming barrages, raining debris on residential buildings and setting them alight. Civilian casualties mounted. By day, Martindale pedaled his bike eastward, wearing several coats and pairs of pants against the cold and carrying homemade peanut butter treats to share with future hosts.
On the road, he read Russian-language social-media postings and spoke with locals who crossed his path. Martindale came to believe that the U.S. had financed Ukraine's split from Russia and that Kyiv had no right to subdue its breakaway regions.
"Washington is pushing every button it can to make the Russian people angry," he later wrote.
Martindale justified mounting evidence of Russian atrocities committed against Ukrainian civilians, reasoning that the Kremlin was "dealing with criminals that have to be dealt with."
He arrived in eastern Ukraine after a nearly two-month journey by bike, train and car. Martindale was closer than ever to Russian-controlled territory, but as a citizen of a country that opposed Moscow, he would have to earn his way across to their side of the war.
A village named 'Epiphany'
He moved into a single-story home in a Ukrainian-held village 30 miles west of Donetsk. The house was made of brick and cinder block, with insulating straw. In a small barn in the back, Martindale accumulated a menagerie of chickens, ducks, goats, and a trio of cows left behind by fleeing Ukrainians.
The name of the village, Bohoyavlenka, translated roughly to "epiphany," and Martindale felt called to live there, he said, in "one of those religious moments."
At times, the village was less than 10 miles from the front line, close enough to hear artillery fire. Martindale recycled a neighbor's discarded dog tag, embossed his name and blood type, and wore it on a chain around his neck.
In his yard, he planted carrots, sweet potatoes and corn. He bought eggs from one villager, milk from another. He helped gather and distribute firewood and repair roofs damaged by Russian shelling. Locals who invited Martindale to birthday and holiday celebrations speculated that he was an international observer of the war or a mercenary gathering intelligence, he said.
They weren't far off.
Martindale was tracking Ukrainian troop movements and positions, including the location of a brigade command-and-control center, and transmitting the information to his Russian contacts.
"I had no clear idea about whether the intelligence I relayed was useful or not," he later wrote.
His parents shipped medical supplies from Indiana, along with prayer books in Ukrainian and Russian. The village had no church, and Sandy Martindale encouraged her son by texting him passages from "They Knew Their God," a book about Christians who had endured ordeals for their faith. He sent back videos of his farmwork and his efforts to aid elderly neighbors.
His parents were unaware of his espionage, they said in an interview with the Journal, though they shared their son's view that Russia was fighting a just war. Jim Martindale said he believed that the Central Intelligence Agency had "orchestrated regime change" in Ukraine and that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was "a paid actor."
Alone in his house at night, Martindale watched the news on Russian state TV and prayed aloud to aid the fight against Ukraine and protect Russian troops.
When a battalion of Ukrainian troops billeted in Bohoyavlenka, a pair of medics moved in with Martindale, testing his ability to conceal his espionage and allegiance.
DANIEL MARTINDALE
"My Russian self had to die and be buried for a while," he later wrote. "I had to be careful about my every word and facial expression."
In the evenings, he recited the Lord's Prayer in Ukrainian with the medics, whose wariness abated with time.
"They had a bad habit of telling me things that were useful for Russian intelligence," Martindale wrote.
A lengthy struggle for the village of Vuhledar began in mid-2022 and later spilled over into Bohoyavlenka, which was struck repeatedly by GRAD missiles. Blasts shook Martindale's house, jolting him awake in the middle of the night. A direct hit on a school near Martindale killed a number of soldiers.
When the Ukrainians struck back, they pounded Russian positions with artillery supplied by the U.S., infuriating Martindale.
"What the Ukrainian army was doing, killing Russian troops, was unpleasant," Martindale said. "But the fact that it had come from my country made it all the more bitter."
He responded by constructing a homemade bomb, intending to use it against one of the U.S.-made Ukrainian artillery pieces. But as he attempted to assemble the components using explosives he had collected from Ukrainian firing positions, he instead ignited a fire in his house. The village fire brigade rushed to his aid and extinguished the blaze.
The longer he remained in Bohoyavlenka, the more suspicion he aroused. An agitated Ukrainian soldier with a rifle arrived at Martindale's house one afternoon, claiming that the American helped Russian forces carry out strikes on military positions. Martindale's neighbors defended him, "saving my life," he later wrote.
After two years of sending intelligence to his Russian handlers, Martindale's phone was failing last summer. His contacts dropped him a new one from a drone.
His family in Indiana monitored the progress of the war online as the front line neared Martindale's village. "He couldn't go to Russia, but it appears that Russia is coming to him," his brother Christian joked, according to his father.
After helping residents evacuate Bohoyavlenka as advancing Russian troops neared the village last fall, he stayed behind. In late October, he received a message to prepare for extraction.
He freed his animals and texted the Russians a photo of his house. Following their instructions, he huddled in his basement, living on canned meat and dried bread.
Four days later, Russian troops poured into Bohoyavlenka, and Martindale heard someone call out his name. Emerging from the basement, he found Russian soldiers in his yard.
They led him out of the village and into Russian-held territory.
A new life
Under escort, Martindale moved southeast in the direction of the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, he said, and spent the night in a hotel before taking a lie-detector test. He felt like a prisoner, he said, someone to be exchanged for a high-value Russian captive in Ukrainian custody.
"I was prepared for that," he said. "That kind of ending."
His minders installed Martindale in an apartment in a location he has declined to share. In early November, he was dispatched to Moscow, catching glimpses of the capital through the window of a car.
In a press conference there, a state-media representative introduced Martindale to reporters, confirming him as a spy for the Kremlin. Holding up his battered and burned U.S. passport, Martindale said he was ready to trade it for a Russian one "yesterday."
His family watched the event on a YouTube streaming channel. It was their first glimpse of him since he had left Bohoyavlenka. They were unaware that Daniel had been spying for Russia, yet they weren't surprised. "He had announced to us many years ago that his goal was to live out his life in Russia," Jim Martindale said.
They say they share his dark and suspicious view of the U.S. government, and his belief that without the support of U.S. intelligence services, Ukraine wouldn't exist. "There is no such thing as Ukrainian," his father says.
Martindale has been sharing his views on the war and his role in it on social-media channels under the name "Shepherd at War." He worries Trump won't be hard enough on Ukraine as the peace talks proceed. "Kiev must be brought to its knees," he posted on Feb. 16. "If Washington wants a deal, let them gather up the criminals from Kiev and fly them to Moscow for trial."
But the dream of returning to Russia's Far East and living on a farm has eluded Martindale so far. While he has secured temporary political asylum, allowing him to apply for Russian citizenship, he said he has been told the decision can take two years.
For now, he said he lives under the close watch of a security detail and is told where he can and can't go. "I'm not 100% a free man," he said.
ATL Bear said:Wrong, what separates 1st world is a lack of poverty. You're griping about 1st world struggles, when others deal with clean drinking water, food scarcity, and disease. Even Russia deals with this. In fact Moscow, even with its own issues (not a fan of it), is a pleasant veneer to what actually happens in the hundreds of villages and towns around the country.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
So the assertion of the US being similar to any of these places, especially when you get to third world is asinine.
My assertion is America is no longer the sole global hegemon and cant afford to police the world and fund endless proxy wars... and we are actually one election away from being peer-to-peer with a country like Russia, which it sounds like you yourself think of as 2nd world country.
We are already a peer-to-peer with China, which would have been laughable only a few short decades ago.
If you consider processed **** filled with micro-plastics and preservatives food... then maybe there isnt food scarcity in America... your local produce aisle is filled with GMO hybridized fruits and vegetables with a fraction of the nutritional value of naturally grown foods. Unfortunately I dont have a time machine to go back and look at how produce looked and tasted 30 years ago vs today... but is anyone delusional enough to think the quality of our food has improved even as the costs have gone up 5-10x.
In Texas, they are even trying to refine raw sewage from cities into fertilizer for crops and poisoning our agricultural land.
As far as clean drinking water... if I filled up a glass of water straight out of the tap right now I wouldnt be able to see the bottom of the glass for at least 30 seconds. I dont remember that happening when I was a child. You can taste the minerals and god knows what else in the water. Most of the people I know buy their drinking water from Ozarka or Sparkletts.
US still has a long way to go to equal the living standards of most places in the southern hemisphere... but we are not at all that far from becoming a Russia if we arent already there...
Ironically the only countries that seem to be elevating themselves and are now 1st world countries are our "allies" in the middle east - Israel and the Gulf Arabs, who receive so much more support from our own government than most Americans do
You can't be serious about this.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:Wrong, what separates 1st world is a lack of poverty. You're griping about 1st world struggles, when others deal with clean drinking water, food scarcity, and disease. Even Russia deals with this. In fact Moscow, even with its own issues (not a fan of it), is a pleasant veneer to what actually happens in the hundreds of villages and towns around the country.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
So the assertion of the US being similar to any of these places, especially when you get to third world is asinine.
My assertion is America is no longer the sole global hegemon and cant afford to police the world and fund endless proxy wars... and we are actually one election away from being peer-to-peer with a country like Russia, which it sounds like you yourself think of as 2nd world country.
We are already a peer-to-peer with China, which would have been laughable only a few short decades ago.
If you consider processed **** filled with micro-plastics and preservatives food... then maybe there isnt food scarcity in America... your local produce aisle is filled with GMO hybridized fruits and vegetables with a fraction of the nutritional value of naturally grown foods. Unfortunately I dont have a time machine to go back and look at how produce looked and tasted 30 years ago vs today... but is anyone delusional enough to think the quality of our food has improved even as the costs have gone up 5-10x.
In Texas, they are even trying to refine raw sewage from cities into fertilizer for crops and poisoning our agricultural land.
As far as clean drinking water... if I filled up a glass of water straight out of the tap right now I wouldnt be able to see the bottom of the glass for at least 30 seconds. I dont remember that happening when I was a child. You can taste the minerals and god knows what else in the water. Most of the people I know buy their drinking water from Ozarka or Sparkletts.
US still has a long way to go to equal the living standards of most places in the southern hemisphere... but we are not at all that far from becoming a Russia if we arent already there...
Ironically the only countries that seem to be elevating themselves and are now 1st world countries are our "allies" in the middle east - Israel and the Gulf Arabs, who receive so much more support from our own government than most Americans do
sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
If he only lost $100 billion we should put him in charge of our military budget
Harrison Bergeron said:Incorrect. Words matter.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
"First World" is a term with a specific definition: it is defined by all the NATO nations and those aligned with NATO.
"Second World" is defined by all the nations of the Warsaw Pact.
"Third World" is defined by all the other nations.
It does not mean poor. Like fascism, it often is misused and has become a pejorative for poor nations, but it has a specific definition. India is not a "third world" nation because it is poor but because it was "unaligned."
While these definitions were relevant once, the context in which they had those meaning is long gone.
BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 20, 2025
The Telegraph reports that Keir Starmer is traveling to Washington to present Trump with a plan of deploying around 30 000 European peacekeeping to Ukraine after a peace deal.
He will urge Trump to have US jets and missiles on standby in Eastern Europe to respond with… pic.twitter.com/BBgN5OXzkd
Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:Incorrect. Words matter.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
"First World" is a term with a specific definition: it is defined by all the NATO nations and those aligned with NATO.
"Second World" is defined by all the nations of the Warsaw Pact.
"Third World" is defined by all the other nations.
It does not mean poor. Like fascism, it often is misused and has become a pejorative for poor nations, but it has a specific definition. India is not a "third world" nation because it is poor but because it was "unaligned."
While these definitions were relevant once, the context in which they had those meaning is long gone.
Correct
3rd world has now come to mean poor and dysfunctional (like Afghanistan or Haiti) and no longer means unaligned politically between the USA or USSR
lol humor warfare
Greetings to #NAFOfellas at the first-ever #NAFOSummit in Vilnius.#NAFO is a living example of how to disarm Russian disinformation with humour, intelligence and enthusiasm. Behind every Fella is a real person who believes in #Ukraine’s victory.
— Kaja Kallas (@kajakallas) July 8, 2023
Thank you for your service. pic.twitter.com/VWOkAe3udr
KaiBear said:If these numbers are accurate the US has been played for suckers for a very long time.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:My point is, I don't care if these churches are trying to break away from Russian Orthodoxy, nor do I care if they get a tomos or hand job of approval from the Russian Orthodoxy for that matter.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Because the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is literally the equivalent of 2nd in line at the CIA. Dude is a GRU stooge doing extra time as the head of the Russian Orthodox Church.Realitybites said:
Unfortunately, what is happening in Ukraine is not an isolated incident.
Estonia is running plays out of the same playbook.
Estonia demands Orthodox Church to change its name, then refuses to register new name
https://orthochristian.com/167308.html
Always interested in what you want these poor guys to do?
In Ukraine, Estonia, other countries....these are independent churches that are only de jure (not de facto) under the Canonical territory of the Patriarch of Russia
They can't force him to give them a tomos of acrocephaly or cancel his official/historic canonical territory....but they have moved far away from his personal control.
[Estonian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate (EOC MP; is a semi-autonomous church in the canonical jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Moscow
This church numbers roughly 150,000 faithful in 31 congregations and is the largest Eastern Orthodox church in Estonia
On August 20, 2024 the church declared unilaterally their autocephaly. A request to legally change their name to "Estonian Christian Orthodox Church" (Estonian: Eesti Kristlik igeusu Kiri) was denied]
You don't seem to care much about freedom of Religion either.
Something the Europeans are proving again and again....that free speech and freedom of religion seem to stop at the Atlantic
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I 100% care about freedom of religion, but I cannot do anything about the 175 or so countries in the world who don't have that explicitly laid out in their founding documents like we do.
Yea I guess the USA is powerless to exert any influence on these euro-crat authoritarians
Time for Europe to defend themselves.
Yes and no. It's no coincidence that the US was/is the most dominant country on the planet both militarily and economically. Much of that influence came from our role as defense leader.
Long term strategy has to be considered and a "free" West is important to us. Can anyone trust Euro socialists to lead their own defense long term? So let's make them up their spending significantly but retain long term leadership role.
Thee tinfoil hat couch-potato prognosticator, not a bible school preacher.
sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Thanks. I did not know that.Harrison Bergeron said:Incorrect. Words matter.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
"First World" is a term with a specific definition: it is defined by all the NATO nations and those aligned with NATO.
"Second World" is defined by all the nations of the Warsaw Pact.
"Third World" is defined by all the other nations.
It does not mean poor. Like fascism, it often is misused and has become a pejorative for poor nations, but it has a specific definition. India is not a "third world" nation because it is poor but because it was "unaligned."
Facebook Groups at; Memories of: Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Through a Texas Lens and also Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
The United States has been protecting western Europe for almost 80 years. However now the country is deeply in debt and our middle / working class is struggling to stay afloat. We have hundreds of thousands of Americans living on the streets and millions more with various mental and physical ailments.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:KaiBear said:If these numbers are accurate the US has been played for suckers for a very long time.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:My point is, I don't care if these churches are trying to break away from Russian Orthodoxy, nor do I care if they get a tomos or hand job of approval from the Russian Orthodoxy for that matter.Redbrickbear said:trey3216 said:Because the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is literally the equivalent of 2nd in line at the CIA. Dude is a GRU stooge doing extra time as the head of the Russian Orthodox Church.Realitybites said:
Unfortunately, what is happening in Ukraine is not an isolated incident.
Estonia is running plays out of the same playbook.
Estonia demands Orthodox Church to change its name, then refuses to register new name
https://orthochristian.com/167308.html
Always interested in what you want these poor guys to do?
In Ukraine, Estonia, other countries....these are independent churches that are only de jure (not de facto) under the Canonical territory of the Patriarch of Russia
They can't force him to give them a tomos of acrocephaly or cancel his official/historic canonical territory....but they have moved far away from his personal control.
[Estonian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate (EOC MP; is a semi-autonomous church in the canonical jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Moscow
This church numbers roughly 150,000 faithful in 31 congregations and is the largest Eastern Orthodox church in Estonia
On August 20, 2024 the church declared unilaterally their autocephaly. A request to legally change their name to "Estonian Christian Orthodox Church" (Estonian: Eesti Kristlik igeusu Kiri) was denied]
You don't seem to care much about freedom of Religion either.
Something the Europeans are proving again and again....that free speech and freedom of religion seem to stop at the Atlantic
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I 100% care about freedom of religion, but I cannot do anything about the 175 or so countries in the world who don't have that explicitly laid out in their founding documents like we do.
Yea I guess the USA is powerless to exert any influence on these euro-crat authoritarians
Time for Europe to defend themselves.
Yes and no. It's no coincidence that the US was/is the most dominant country on the planet both militarily and economically. Much of that influence came from our role as defense leader.
Long term strategy has to be considered and a "free" West is important to us. Can anyone trust Euro socialists to lead their own defense long term? So let's make them up their spending significantly but retain long term leadership role.
We no longer have the luxury to spend billions of dollars defending Europe......and why should we ?
Europe has been constantly embroiled in wars for centuries. Our Founding Fathers recognized this and wanted no part of them.
Past time to return to a true America First reality.
Redbrickbear said:Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:Incorrect. Words matter.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
"First World" is a term with a specific definition: it is defined by all the NATO nations and those aligned with NATO.
"Second World" is defined by all the nations of the Warsaw Pact.
"Third World" is defined by all the other nations.
It does not mean poor. Like fascism, it often is misused and has become a pejorative for poor nations, but it has a specific definition. India is not a "third world" nation because it is poor but because it was "unaligned."
While these definitions were relevant once, the context in which they had those meaning is long gone.
Correct
3rd world has now come to mean poor and dysfunctional (like Afghanistan or Haiti) and no longer means unaligned politically between the USA or USSR
Those terms have gone to mean that because all too often that is the reality. Unfortunately, wealthy western nations deserve some of the blame. Biden trying to force African countries to kill their babies as a precondition to receiving aid is one example. Their efforts to force the perv & trans agendas on countries culturally with more sense is another. The Left has tried to push their radical agenda on other countries for decades: abortion, perversion, the trans cult, the climate cult, sex trafficking, etc. And it's not only governments: wealthy NGO's like the WEF have a similar agenda. Naturally, some of those NGO's were financed by USAID & other corrupt US govt programs.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
"he saves but he rapes. He saves probably more than he rapes, but he does rape" - Dave Chappellehistorian said:sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
Funding Ukraine is incredibly unpopular among voters. This was shown even in the most rigged polls. There's no debate to be had here. It's anti-democratic to keep sending money to gangster oligarchs.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 19, 2025
Zelensky has blocked reportedly blocked Truth Social in Ukraine.
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) February 20, 2025
George Washington's Farewell Address on the occasion of his leaving the presidency advised Americans to stay out of European politics because it was detrimental to our interests. Of course, he was correct and our nation managed to follow that advice pretty well for 150 years. But we live in a very different world: in 1792 the US was weak while the European great powers were each very strong (it really was a miracle that we defeated the strongest of them in 1781). In the 20th century we were crucial to allied victories in both world wars. American leadership was also crucial to winning the Cold War (without firing a shot). Isolationism today would be foolish & dangerous, despite the temptation. Same with leaving the UN or NATO.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Doc Holliday said:Zelensky has blocked reportedly blocked Truth Social in Ukraine.
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) February 20, 2025
What was his stance on slavery? Was he planning on building an Iron dome to protect against ICBMs?historian said:
George Washington's Farewell Address on the occasion of his leaving the presidency advised Americans to stay out of European politics because it was detrimental to our interests. Of course, he was correct and our nation managed to follow that advice pretty well for 150 years. But we live in a very different world: in 1792 the US was weak while the European great powers were each very strong (it really was a miracle that we defeated the strongest of them in 1781). In the 20th century we were crucial to allied victories in both world wars. American leadership was also crucial to winning the Cold War (without firing a shot). Isolationism today would be foolish & dangerous, despite the temptation. Same with leaving the UN or NATO.
BREAKING: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has directed senior leaders at the Pentagon and throughout the U.S. military to formulate strategic plans for an 8% annual reduction in the defense budget over the next 5 years, according to a memo.
— Leading Report (@LeadingReport) February 19, 2025
I'd say I'm shocked about how absolutely unintelligible this post is, but given who made it, I get to save 2.3 seconds of my day.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:Wrong, what separates 1st world is a lack of poverty. You're griping about 1st world struggles, when others deal with clean drinking water, food scarcity, and disease. Even Russia deals with this. In fact Moscow, even with its own issues (not a fan of it), is a pleasant veneer to what actually happens in the hundreds of villages and towns around the country.The_barBEARian said:Harrison Bergeron said:Not to be a dick, but America is by definition a First World country.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:You're ****ing crazy.Realitybites said:Harrison Bergeron said:
The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....
I would much rather live in Moscow than Berlin, Paris, or Loondon.
Actually, the double O was a typo, but rather than correct it I left it alone as it seemed to be fairly accurate.
And some of you have never sniffed an actual 3rd world country or have any idea how China or Russia operates domestically.
Is America still a 1st world country?
Do we still have a middle class?
How would you define "middle class" in 2025?
It would have seemed a ridiculous thing to ask a couple decades ago... but I think it's worth debating in 2025.
The average age of new home owners in America is 40.
Americans net worth on average has been shrinking while cost of living has been increasing.
If you dont have a 7 figure net worth are you still "middle class" in America?
What seperates a 1st world country from a 2nd world country isn't a lack of rich people... its lack of a middle class.
Mexico has rich people with ungodly wealth.... and of the rest of the population lives on less than $1000 USD a month.
So the assertion of the US being similar to any of these places, especially when you get to third world is asinine.
My assertion is America is no longer the sole global hegemon and cant afford to police the world and fund endless proxy wars... and we are actually one election away from being peer-to-peer with a country like Russia, which it sounds like you yourself think of as 2nd world country.
We are already a peer-to-peer with China, which would have been laughable only a few short decades ago.
If you consider processed **** filled with micro-plastics and preservatives food... then maybe there isnt food scarcity in America... your local produce aisle is filled with GMO hybridized fruits and vegetables with a fraction of the nutritional value of naturally grown foods. Unfortunately I dont have a time machine to go back and look at how produce looked and tasted 30 years ago vs today... but is anyone delusional enough to think the quality of our food has improved even as the costs have gone up 5-10x.
In Texas, they are even trying to refine raw sewage from cities into fertilizer for crops and poisoning our agricultural land.
As far as clean drinking water... if I filled up a glass of water straight out of the tap right now I wouldnt be able to see the bottom of the glass for at least 30 seconds. I dont remember that happening when I was a child. You can taste the minerals and god knows what else in the water. Most of the people I know buy their drinking water from Ozarka or Sparkletts.
US still has a long way to go to equal the living standards of most places in the southern hemisphere... but we are not at all that far from becoming a Russia if we arent already there...
Ironically the only countries that seem to be elevating themselves and are now 1st world countries are our "allies" in the middle east - Israel and the Gulf Arabs, who receive so much more support from our own government than most Americans do
I only buy bottled water when I am driving from one place to another and it's going to take more than 30 minutes since I don't have a water tap in any of my vehicles.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
[The "missing $100 billion claim is false]historian said:sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
Since the full-scale Russian military invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the U.S. Congress has passed five Ukraine aid bills totaling $175 billion. Of that, $106 billion is designated for direct support to Ukraine, comprising some $69.8 billion in military aid, $33.3 billion for budget support, and $2.8 billion in humanitarian assistance, as tracked by the Washington, D.C.-based Council on Foreign Relations.
The remaining funds support U.S. activities related to the war in Ukraine, as well as U.S. aid to countries affected by Russia's war in Ukraine. A significant portion of the aid is spent in the U.S., funding factories and workers to produce weapons for Ukraine and replenishing Pentagon stockpiles.
A November 2023 article in The Washington Post broke down the U.S. military aid to Ukraine, reporting that most of it is spent in the U.S., used to build new weapons or replenish U.S. stockpiles, rather than going directly to Ukraine. Nearly 90% of the $68 billion in military assistance benefits American workers, with 117 production lines across 31 states and 71 cities producing weapons for Ukraine.
The Post's findings corroborated earlier estimates by Mark Cancian of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies that much of the U.S. aid for Ukraine is spent domestically.
On Feb. 5, 2025, General Keith Kellogg, President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, reaffirmed that the $174 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine is accounted for and being distributed through a transparent process:
"The United States, the American people, the U.S. citizens have given Ukraine over $174 billion. And we have put inspector generals on the ground in Ukraine and here to track that money. So, we have fairly good reporting on where it's going," Kellogg said on the Newsmax TV channel.
sombear said:[The "missing $100 billion claim is false]historian said:sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
Since the full-scale Russian military invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the U.S. Congress has passed five Ukraine aid bills totaling $175 billion. Of that, $106 billion is designated for direct support to Ukraine, comprising some $69.8 billion in military aid, $33.3 billion for budget support, and $2.8 billion in humanitarian assistance, as tracked by the Washington, D.C.-based Council on Foreign Relations.
The remaining funds support U.S. activities related to the war in Ukraine, as well as U.S. aid to countries affected by Russia's war in Ukraine. A significant portion of the aid is spent in the U.S., funding factories and workers to produce weapons for Ukraine and replenishing Pentagon stockpiles.
A November 2023 article in The Washington Post broke down the U.S. military aid to Ukraine, reporting that most of it is spent in the U.S., used to build new weapons or replenish U.S. stockpiles, rather than going directly to Ukraine. Nearly 90% of the $68 billion in military assistance benefits American workers, with 117 production lines across 31 states and 71 cities producing weapons for Ukraine.
The Post's findings corroborated earlier estimates by Mark Cancian of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies that much of the U.S. aid for Ukraine is spent domestically.
On Feb. 5, 2025, General Keith Kellogg, President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, reaffirmed that the $174 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine is accounted for and being distributed through a transparent process:
"The United States, the American people, the U.S. citizens have given Ukraine over $174 billion. And we have put inspector generals on the ground in Ukraine and here to track that money. So, we have fairly good reporting on where it's going," Kellogg said on the Newsmax TV channel.
Biden provided additional funds to Ukraine using discretionary funds m beyond what was authorized by Congress on multiple occasions.
I don't know precise numbers but no one does. The Ukraine funds were never properly audited, just like the rest of the government. That's the real problem, along with the money laundering & the US financing a corrupt dictatorship.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Join the Brave | International Legionnaires of Ukraine
Ukraine is running out of gay ******s to volunteer to save the free world!
You would be the ideal candidate!
They even issue kevlar dunce caps!
Ukraine is running out of gay ******s to volunteer to save the free world!
You would be the ideal candidate!
They even issue kevlar dunce caps!
trey3216 said:
I'd say I'm shocked about how absolutely unintelligible this post is, but given who made it, I get to save 2.3 seconds of my day.
Thank you for not saying this to my face.
I see, so at a fundamental level it's billions in tax dollars going to the military industrial complex and benefiting solely those workers while we simultaneously can't find funds to benefit domestic hurricane victims.sombear said:[The "missing $100 billion claim is false]historian said:sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
Since the full-scale Russian military invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the U.S. Congress has passed five Ukraine aid bills totaling $175 billion. Of that, $106 billion is designated for direct support to Ukraine, comprising some $69.8 billion in military aid, $33.3 billion for budget support, and $2.8 billion in humanitarian assistance, as tracked by the Washington, D.C.-based Council on Foreign Relations.
The remaining funds support U.S. activities related to the war in Ukraine, as well as U.S. aid to countries affected by Russia's war in Ukraine. A significant portion of the aid is spent in the U.S., funding factories and workers to produce weapons for Ukraine and replenishing Pentagon stockpiles.
A November 2023 article in The Washington Post broke down the U.S. military aid to Ukraine, reporting that most of it is spent in the U.S., used to build new weapons or replenish U.S. stockpiles, rather than going directly to Ukraine. Nearly 90% of the $68 billion in military assistance benefits American workers, with 117 production lines across 31 states and 71 cities producing weapons for Ukraine.
The Post's findings corroborated earlier estimates by Mark Cancian of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies that much of the U.S. aid for Ukraine is spent domestically.
On Feb. 5, 2025, General Keith Kellogg, President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, reaffirmed that the $174 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine is accounted for and being distributed through a transparent process:
"The United States, the American people, the U.S. citizens have given Ukraine over $174 billion. And we have put inspector generals on the ground in Ukraine and here to track that money. So, we have fairly good reporting on where it's going," Kellogg said on the Newsmax TV channel.
Where's the audit on how much these weapons manufacturers are charging and are there profit margins through the roof? I'm willing to bet we could have spent 1/5 of the amount we have and these corporations could have still made insanely large net profits.
When tax dollars are being given to a corporation or contractor, there needs to be a limit on the profit margin because it's paid for with tax dollars. Charge whatever you want in the private sector, but not here. Also they should be completely banned from providing campaign funding, insider information or giving kickbacks.
Doc Holliday said:I see, so at a fundamental level it's billions in tax dollars going to the military industrial complex and benefiting solely those workers while we simultaneously can't find funds to benefit domestic hurricane victims.sombear said:[The "missing $100 billion claim is false]historian said:sombear said:historian said:
We didn't send him $100 billion.
Closer to $200 billion. He claimed $100 billion was missing. So where did it go?
Just as important, whatever the amount why wasn't it audited? For any government expenditure there should be detailed accounting so that we know exactly where all of it went. That's the problem with the fascists wasting our money: there has been almost no accountability. They have been robbing us for decades creating slush funds for all kinds of evils and using our money to tyrannies us.
Trump & Musk are doing something about this so they are heroes. Many of the loudest critics are probably in the take and belong in prison.
Since the full-scale Russian military invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the U.S. Congress has passed five Ukraine aid bills totaling $175 billion. Of that, $106 billion is designated for direct support to Ukraine, comprising some $69.8 billion in military aid, $33.3 billion for budget support, and $2.8 billion in humanitarian assistance, as tracked by the Washington, D.C.-based Council on Foreign Relations.
The remaining funds support U.S. activities related to the war in Ukraine, as well as U.S. aid to countries affected by Russia's war in Ukraine. A significant portion of the aid is spent in the U.S., funding factories and workers to produce weapons for Ukraine and replenishing Pentagon stockpiles.
A November 2023 article in The Washington Post broke down the U.S. military aid to Ukraine, reporting that most of it is spent in the U.S., used to build new weapons or replenish U.S. stockpiles, rather than going directly to Ukraine. Nearly 90% of the $68 billion in military assistance benefits American workers, with 117 production lines across 31 states and 71 cities producing weapons for Ukraine.
The Post's findings corroborated earlier estimates by Mark Cancian of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies that much of the U.S. aid for Ukraine is spent domestically.
On Feb. 5, 2025, General Keith Kellogg, President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, reaffirmed that the $174 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine is accounted for and being distributed through a transparent process:
"The United States, the American people, the U.S. citizens have given Ukraine over $174 billion. And we have put inspector generals on the ground in Ukraine and here to track that money. So, we have fairly good reporting on where it's going," Kellogg said on the Newsmax TV channel.
Where's the audit on how much these weapons manufacturers are charging and are there profit margins through the roof? I'm willing to bet we could have spent 1/5 of the amount we have and these corporations could have still made insanely large net profits.
When tax dollars are being given to a corporation or contractor, there needs to be a limit on the profit margin because it's paid for with tax dollars. Charge whatever you want in the private sector, but not here. Also they should be completely banned from providing campaign funding, insider information or giving kickbacks.
The MIC are the biggest grifters of all... if it costs $2 million to build a missile, they'll charge the tax payer $20 million
Doc Holliday said:Funding Ukraine is incredibly unpopular among voters. This was shown even in the most rigged polls. There's no debate to be had here. It's anti-democratic to keep sending money to gangster oligarchs.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 19, 2025
I live in 100K mid size city
Have not seen a Ukraine flag in years
Well take that back....the local Episcopalian church fly's a gay pride flag and Ukraine flag and has a BLM banner up. lol
But they always like to loudly proclaim their loyalty to whatever the current thing is....
Take that for what it is worth but no one seems to like this war (other than DC)
Doc Holliday said:Zelensky has blocked reportedly blocked Truth Social in Ukraine.
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) February 20, 2025
This reply:
— American.357 (@ASimplePatriot) February 20, 2025
Wild that any church would promote a pride flag when Jesus explicitly condemns pride in anything and any sex outside marriage between and man and woman.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:Funding Ukraine is incredibly unpopular among voters. This was shown even in the most rigged polls. There's no debate to be had here. It's anti-democratic to keep sending money to gangster oligarchs.
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) February 19, 2025
I live in 100K mid size city
Have not seen a Ukraine flag in years
Well take that back....the local Episcopalian church fly's a gay pride flag and Ukraine flag and has a BLM banner up. lol
But they always like to loudly proclaim their loyalty to whatever the current thing is....
Take that for what it is worth but no one seems to like this war (other than DC)
Vance is making the exact same argument.ATL Bear said:This is truly a rich statement.Doc Holliday said:Love it!Realitybites said:
Trump lowing the boom on President Borat.
He's pissing off the boomercons whose heads are permanently stuck in the mid 2000s and have no idea how the real world works.
This is moralistic garbage, which is unfortunately the rhetorical currency of the globalists because they have nothing else to say.
— JD Vance (@JDVance) February 20, 2025
For three years, President Trump and I have made two simple arguments: first, the war wouldn't have started if President Trump was in office;… https://t.co/xH33s6X5yf