The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Whatever he is.....I am trying to figure out what you are.

Some kind of pro-LGTBQ imperialist who wants DC fighting Russia over Donbas but does not want us to reclaim the Panama Canal or fight Cartels

Fascinating.....

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Whatever he is.....I am trying to figure out what you are.

Some kind of pro-LGTBQ imperialist who wants DC fighting Russia over Donbas but does not want us to reclaim the Panama Canal or fight Cartels

Fascinating.....

---

I'm not anti-LG , I don't care about the others either if they don't get special treatment. I'm fine with killing the cartels on our side of the border and want more tarrifs on Mexico until they calm down. Retaking the Canal is not in our best interest at this point and Trump jumped the gun on that one. I guess you could say I'm a conservative

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

Your ultimate goal is for the government to give you something. You're no better than any Democrat or big spending RINO.

---

lol what?

That is a wild non-sequitur to make from the quoted statement.

I put far more into the country than I have gotten back from it... like 1000 fold more... and yeah it would be nice to not have to keep giving so much.

Unlike our politicians, I've never printed money and laundered it back to myself to increase inflation and reduce the value of my constituents life savings.

ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Thats why they call it an exception, genius.

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Whatever he is.....I am trying to figure out what you are.

Some kind of pro-LGTBQ imperialist who wants DC fighting Russia over Donbas but does not want us to reclaim the Panama Canal or fight Cartels

Fascinating.....

---

Retaking the Canal is not in our best interest at this point and Trump jumped the gun on that one.

---

I don't know

Seems like a liability letting such a major artery of world trade and security be getting into bed with China

The_barBEARian said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

Your ultimate goal is for the government to give you something. You're no better than any Democrat or big spending RINO.

---

lol what?

That is a wild non-sequitur to make from the quoted statement.

I put far more into the country than I have gotten back from it... like 1000 fold more... and yeah it would be nice to not have to keep giving so much.

Unlike our politicians, I've never printed money and laundered it back to myself to increase inflation and reduce the value of my constituents life savings.

---

I'm not the one on this message board with several dozen posts saying "the government has never given me this or maybe one day when things get straightened out the government will give me that". You've said it a hundred times. You want the government to give you shlt.

The_barBEARian said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Thats why they call it an exception, genius.

---

Ahh I see, bombing two different sovereign countries is modern isolationism

ATL Bear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

Not to mention the tanks with Russian army division markings suddenly appearing, the BUK AA launcher that shot down an airliner then quickly went back Russia, and the Russian obituaries then and now (they don't hide their first invasion medals and "accomplishments" on obituaries), etc.

---

Indisputable proof doesn't matter. America Bad. Russia Good.

---

So the guy who voted for Kamala is the one writing purity tests for American patriotism... you cant make this stuff up!

---

If you're referring to me, I voted for the other idiot.

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Gotta be honest, seeing The_barBEARian posts make me wish I didn't throw the word wetard around so casually in the past

---

You calling me ******ed would be like me calling Usain Bolt slow.

All you can do is laugh...

ron.reagan said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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ron.reagan said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

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ron.reagan said:

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KaiBear said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. You guys are either intentionally obtuse or just overwhelmed with bad info and stubbornly stuck in your pro Russia position.

---

A don't remember a full scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2014

But I am sure you are talking about the local people rising up with some russian paid for mercs and special forces.

But that just brings us back to the isssue

Are secession movements ok when the US backs them (Kosovo, S. Sudan, E. Timor) but wrong when Moscow backs them (Donbas-Crimea)?

---

Crimea was part of Ukraine until Russia invaded and annexed it. Just own the miss and move on. It was the beginning of Russia's military actions to take over Eastern Ukraine, that was the first step to the larger invasion.

---

You are calling 2014 an invasion... we are calling it a liberation.

---

That is a little far

The people of the Crimea went from being under the rule of some crooks in Kyiv to some crooks in Moscow

But no doubt they wanted to be with their fellow ethnic russians

We will see if it works out for them long term.

---

One man's despot is another man's hero.

I'm pretty consistent in that I am an isolationist and the best policy is to avoid foreign wars... especially when you country has historic debt-to-GDP.

I would make an exception for reclaiming the Panama canal or sending SF into Mexico to assassinate cartel members however...

---

You are not an isolationist

---

Thats why they call it an exception, genius.

---

Ahh I see, bombing two different sovereign countries is modern isolationism

---

Panama would not become the next Gaza.

With all the money we spend on defense if we cant retake the Panama canal is a virtually bloodless conflict, then we need to set the Pentagon on fire.

ron.reagan said:

---

In that you both have your own Olympics you go to?

---

That was a sick burn ron... congratulations... you are the cry bully champion. I cannot compete with you.

trey3216 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

In that you both have your own Olympics you go to?

---

That was a sick burn ron... congratulations... you are the cry bully champion. I cannot compete with you.

---

I can't wait until you start having arguments with yourself about which people are actually white and which ones to stake your claims behind. You're gonna bend yourself into a pretzel.

---

Well regardless of whether they are white or not..... I really like and have a lot of respect for the Italian people.

The Sopranos still holds up as one of the greatest television shows ever made.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Maybe they should have just let keep no being neutral and adopt the polices they had pre-2014 instead of getting completely in bed with DC (trade relations with both West and East)

Or maybe they should have just let the poor, backwards, and ethnic russian areas of Donbas and Crimea join the Russian Federation....opening the path for a unified Ukraine to enter the EU and NATO

Instead they decided to wage a futile war to try and retake those areas and forcibly bring those people back into a political union they did not want to be in.

10+ million people displaced....hundreds of thousands of lives lost...and trillions in damage.....and Kyiv still does not have possession of Donbas or Crimea

Talk about a stupid policy and a pointless 10 year military struggle

---

Ukraine should not have worn a provocative dress. No wonder it got raped.

Osodecentx said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Maybe they should have just let keep no being neutral and adopt the polices they had pre-2014 instead of getting completely in bed with DC (trade relations with both West and East)

Or maybe they should have just let the poor, backwards, and ethnic russian areas of Donbas and Crimea join the Russian Federation....opening the path for a unified Ukraine to enter the EU and NATO

Instead they decided to wage a futile war to try and retake those areas and forcibly bring those people back into a political union they did not want to be in.

10+ million people displaced....hundreds of thousands of lives lost...and trillions in damage.....and Kyiv still does not have possession of Donbas or Crimea

Talk about a stupid policy and a pointless 10 year military struggle

---

Ukraine should not have worn a provocative dress. No wonder it got raped.

---

This the kind of dumb takes you steal from Reddit?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Tip of the iceberg https://t.co/mjbObs0Tz5

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 21, 2025

---

It's frightening when even Elon becomes part of the Russian disinformation campaign. This is a story from 2023 and an investigation that actually the Ukrainians conducted and charged and arrested the officials. The embezzlement occurred at the beginning of the war (2022), and they recovered a good portion of the monies. There are a litany of actual news sources out there on this, and not agenda led X randos repurposing and reframing information at a critical juncture.

I would suggest some (perhaps many) are being played, but it appears that you are willing instruments.

Tulsi Gabbard says there’s 30 US FUNDED biolabs in Ukraine..

wtf?? pic.twitter.com/fRw362ej2j

— American AF 🇺🇸 (@iAnonPatriot) February 21, 2025

whiterock said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Putin should not have invaded. But he did.
Not just true, but the most important truth of all. RUSSIA started all of this.

Biden should not have openly assured the Ukraine that they could join Nato. But he did.
False. Refusing to categorically reject the idea is not synonymous with "assuring" membership.

So what exactly do you want the US to do? Will you send your sons/daughters to go fight for the Ukraine? Or do you just want to send our tax dollars? And to what end and how long?
Support others who are willing to fight, for as long as they are willing to fight, up to and including supporting any future insurgency against a victorious Russia (which we most definitely will do, should such happen).

.

---

It is amazing how hard people work to ignore very elementary geo-strategic realities: Ukraine is a sovereign country which was invaded by Russia without any cause whatsoever, an act which was a significant threat to Nato, an alliance to which we are a member. Russia committed an act of war; Ukraine did not. Nato is significantly more threatened by Russian actions than Russia than vice-versa.

---

You're wrong. Biden did in fact assure them that they could join nato.

As for the rest of your comments, I have no problem with Ukraine continuing to fight.
So how much taxpayer money are you willing to just give away so Ukraine can bleed Russia. 100 billion per year? 200 billion? Just curious.

Personally, I think Europe should foot much of the bill. I also think that if we are going to fund/arm them in huge amounts, getting some favors/pay/guarantees in return for America would be reasonable. So I don't disagree entirely with you. There is value in bleeding Russia, but I wouldn't want to incentivize millions of deaths to do it. So if they want to continue to fight, let's sell them weapons and intelligence, but shelling out unlimited cash clearly makes it very easy for the Ukrainian oligarchs to keep killing off their own people without any personal sacrifice.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Putin should not have invaded. But he did.
Not just true, but the most important truth of all. RUSSIA started all of this.

Biden should not have openly assured the Ukraine that they could join Nato. But he did.
False. Refusing to categorically reject the idea is not synonymous with "assuring" membership.

So what exactly do you want the US to do? Will you send your sons/daughters to go fight for the Ukraine? Or do you just want to send our tax dollars? And to what end and how long?
Support others who are willing to fight, for as long as they are willing to fight, up to and including supporting any future insurgency against a victorious Russia (which we most definitely will do, should such happen).

.

---

It is amazing how hard people work to ignore very elementary geo-strategic realities: Ukraine is a sovereign country which was invaded by Russia without any cause whatsoever, an act which was a significant threat to Nato, an alliance to which we are a member. Russia committed an act of war; Ukraine did not. Nato is significantly more threatened by Russian actions than Russia than vice-versa.

---

You're wrong. Biden did in fact assure them that they could join nato.

As for the rest of your comments, I have no problem with Ukraine continuing to fight.
So how much taxpayer money are you willing to just give away so Ukraine can bleed Russia. 100 billion per year? 200 billion? Just curious.

Personally, I think Europe should foot much of the bill. I also think that if we are going to fund/arm them in huge amounts, getting some favors/pay/guarantees in return for America would be reasonable. So I don't disagree entirely with you. There is value in bleeding Russia, but I wouldn't want to incentivize millions of deaths to do it. So if they want to continue to fight, let's sell them weapons and intelligence, but shelling out unlimited cash clearly makes it very easy for the Ukrainian oligarchs to keep killing off their own people without any personal sacrifice.

---

Show your work here.

https://www.threads.net/@lordrossman/post/DGWKew8u_41?xmt=AQGzdtZHIJIbSotKeVXdQkdH86YMzJKmdYTLv9MmGDS-UQ

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Does anyone seriously believe Ukraine started the war? https://t.co/ivBfB1htMd

— Nathan J Robinson (@NathanJRobinson) February 19, 2025

---

Putin and Biden started the war.

Biden in repeatedly offering Ukraine NATO membership….even when a frustrated Putin had finally put 200,000 troops on the Ukrainian border.

And Putin by actually following through with his threat to invade.

Both Biden and Putin each made a huge miscalculation.

Biden in not believing Putin would actually invade Ukraine rather than allow them in NATO.

And Putin by grossly overestimating the combat capabilities of his military. Putin no doubt thought his army would overwhelm Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

As a result hundreds of thousands of individuals are dead; millions of Ukrainians are refugees and the elites of 3 countries are richer.

---

Biden could have asked Nancy how to get rich that would he a hell of a lot easier than this conspiracy bull**** you got from a gold investing email

---

Yeah

Harris must have thought those 200,000 Russian troops were an illusion when she went to Europe and AGAIN publicly promoted Ukrainian membership into NATO.

Putin invaded shortly afterwards.

APMEX is a good source for gold eagles and gold maple leafs.
Now over $ 3000.00 an ounce. LOL

Too bad you don't have the cash to play.

---

Russia was never not going to invade.

---

From 1991 to 2022 Russia did not invade

There is nothing sure about anything....except that Nations will pursue the geo-strategic objective that gives them the most protection and benefit.

Moscow (under whatever form of government) has been pretty consistent.....they want their borderlands secure. (Ukraine-Belarus-Georgia-Kazakhstan)

DC has been pretty consistent as well. No foreign power can interfere in the Western Hemisphere (our sphere of influence) and we want to project power into the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam) to prevent anyone getting close to our borders/Homeland

If you start trying to put bases in close to the USA you can take a reasonable guess what DC is going to do....same is true of Moscow

---

Now this should be reasonably clear to anyone with a umiversity degree.......however the same guys have been arguing something different for 18 months.

---

Except for that part in bold which was not happening. It wasn't happening in Nato states - Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania. And it damned sure wasn't happening in Ukraine, who received no significant lethal aid from Nato states prior to 2022.

It is abundantly clear, however, which power DID try to set up a military base in Ukraine = RUSSIA.

Policy critics literally invert reality as needed to support their argument.

Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Unfortunately, what is happening in Ukraine is not an isolated incident.

Estonia is running plays out of the same playbook.

Estonia demands Orthodox Church to change its name, then refuses to register new name

https://orthochristian.com/167308.html

---

Because the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is literally the equivalent of 2nd in line at the CIA. Dude is a GRU stooge doing extra time as the head of the Russian Orthodox Church.

---

Always interested in what you want these poor guys to do?

In Ukraine, Estonia, other countries....these are independent churches that are only de jure (not de facto) under the Canonical territory of the Patriarch of Russia

They can't force him to give them a tomos of acrocephaly or cancel his official/historic canonical territory....but they have moved far away from his personal control.

[Estonian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate (EOC MP; is a semi-autonomous church in the canonical jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Moscow

This church numbers roughly 150,000 faithful in 31 congregations and is the largest Eastern Orthodox church in Estonia

On August 20, 2024 the church declared unilaterally their autocephaly. A request to legally change their name to "Estonian Christian Orthodox Church" (Estonian: Eesti Kristlik igeusu Kiri) was denied]

---

My point is, I don't care if these churches are trying to break away from Russian Orthodoxy, nor do I care if they get a tomos or hand job of approval from the Russian Orthodoxy for that matter.

---

You don't seem to care much about freedom of Religion either.

Something the Europeans are proving again and again....that free speech and freedom of religion seem to stop at the Atlantic

The Europeans have more in common with the Russians than they think....

---

if one cares about freedom of religion, then one would support the efforts of Orthodox Churches to break free of the Patrirchate of Moscow, which is aggressively pro-Russian

---

They are already independent Bud

That is the whole point.....Kyiv and Tallin are persecuting them for no reason.

[Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC-PM) declared independence from the Russian Orthodox Church in May 2022. The Church has been self governing since 1991]

[The Estonian Orthodox Church, which previously belonged to the Moscow Patriarchate, has officially broken away from the Russian mother church. On Tuesday, a church assembly in the capital Tallinn adopted new statutes of its own, which stipulate independence in the administrative, economic and educational areas, as stated on the website. The name of the church was also changed and now reads "Estonian Orthodox Church" - the addition "of the Moscow Patriarchate" was removed.]

---

So you're saying that religious liberty prevents a government from doing anything to deal with the obvious threat posed by the state Church of Russia, which openly supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

---

You know that is a lie.....it amazes me you keep repeating something easy to disprove.

These Churches condemned the freaking invasion.

[On 12 May 2022, the synod of the UOC met for the first time since the start of the war and issued a statement of support for Ukraine's armed forces, while condemning the Russian invasion.]

They are not "obvious threats to the State"

They have only 6% of the population as followers... and most of their followers are in the Ukrainian armed forces fighting Russia and their Clerics (vast majority of the 12,000 they have) also support the war.

They have completely declared their independence

---

LOL there you go again, inverting reality to suit your argument, no matter how often it pokes in its ugly head, in this instance to purvey Russian propaganda about rampant paganism in Ukraine and depicting the war as a battle for the soul of "Holy Rus" (a concept which joins Ukraine and Russia at the hip....like Putin does).

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-patriarch-says-weirdos-spreading-paganism-ukraine-frontline-2025-02-12/

Redbrickbear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Vance lays it out perfectly. Ukraine doesn't have a pathway to victory.

If your goal is to send Ukrainians to die in order to weaken Russia, that is evil. That is the neocon mindset. Hundreds of thousands of men dying has created countless fatherless homes and will have a major negative impact for generations.

It's anti Christian to use their death as a means to seek our desires against Russia. Peace, diplomacy and red lines are the way.

In this thread I'll respond to some of what I've seen out there. Let's start with Niall:

1) On the general background, yes, you have been more right than wrong on a lot of the details of the conflict. Which is why I'm surprised to hear you call the administration's posture… https://t.co/w7OQemI3R7

— JD Vance (@JDVance) February 21, 2025

---

Yea, Ukraine never had a path to victory that did not include US-NATO ground troops

(something Obama and Biden said they would not do)

Not even certain that Russia has been all that weakened....Russia is of course replacing what they lost with new equipment.

[IISS assessed that Russia refurbished and built over 1,500 tanks and 2,800 IFVs and APCs in 2024 suggesting that Russia produced enough vehicles to replace all of IISS's estimated tank losses and three quarters of IISS's assessed Russian armored vehicle losses in 2024.]

And even it that is the case...its strengthen China that is the problem.

It gives the Communists in Beijing a resource rich country that is isolated and totally dependent on them.

That is a geo-strategic disaster for the West

---

LOL you do not understand what you're reading.

"refurbishing" is largely "pulling WWII and Soviet-era tanks out of mothballs" and that effort has come at the expense of building any significant numbers of new tanks.

Russia has lost a 5-digit number of tanks. Their manufacturing capacity is (sources vary a bit between 200-500/yr). When the next war happens (which depends on the specifics of how the war ends), Russia will no longer have an enormous store of armored vehicles. It will have to support a war effort on what it can produce, which is a small fraction of what Nato will have at its disposal. Logistics will sharply limit its future options. Which of course was a major factor in western support for Ukraine - to cut Russia down to size.

This entire narrative that this bloodfest in Ukraine was somehow worth it in order to 'weaken' the Russian military is ludicrous.

Hundreds of thousands of people have been slaughtered.

Only folks thousands of miles from the carnage can even attempt to be smug about it.

And for what …..to argue about tanks ?

Russia will easily rebuild their tank numbers.

The United States might even get back some of the hundreds of billions Biden cynically gave away.

But those lives are irrevocably lost.

ATL Bear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Putin should not have invaded. But he did.
Not just true, but the most important truth of all. RUSSIA started all of this.

Biden should not have openly assured the Ukraine that they could join Nato. But he did.
False. Refusing to categorically reject the idea is not synonymous with "assuring" membership.

So what exactly do you want the US to do? Will you send your sons/daughters to go fight for the Ukraine? Or do you just want to send our tax dollars? And to what end and how long?
Support others who are willing to fight, for as long as they are willing to fight, up to and including supporting any future insurgency against a victorious Russia (which we most definitely will do, should such happen).

.

---

It is amazing how hard people work to ignore very elementary geo-strategic realities: Ukraine is a sovereign country which was invaded by Russia without any cause whatsoever, an act which was a significant threat to Nato, an alliance to which we are a member. Russia committed an act of war; Ukraine did not. Nato is significantly more threatened by Russian actions than Russia than vice-versa.

---

You're wrong. Biden did in fact assure them that they could join nato.

As for the rest of your comments, I have no problem with Ukraine continuing to fight.
So how much taxpayer money are you willing to just give away so Ukraine can bleed Russia. 100 billion per year? 200 billion? Just curious.

Personally, I think Europe should foot much of the bill. I also think that if we are going to fund/arm them in huge amounts, getting some favors/pay/guarantees in return for America would be reasonable. So I don't disagree entirely with you. There is value in bleeding Russia, but I wouldn't want to incentivize millions of deaths to do it. So if they want to continue to fight, let's sell them weapons and intelligence, but shelling out unlimited cash clearly makes it very easy for the Ukrainian oligarchs to keep killing off their own people without any personal sacrifice.

---

Show your work here.

---

You have google, it's quite easily found in the public domain. And two months later after Biden assured them it was up to the Ukraine to join or not, Russia invaded.

Yeah, I know ... Russia was always going to invade, blah blah blah. That conversation had nothing to do with it, blah blah blah.

Ukraine’s military intelligence has followed Israel’s suit by sending goggles for FPV drone operators with hidden explosives inside them to Russian volunteer groups that have been donating such goggles to Russian troops in Ukraine for years.

Many explosions reported at the front pic.twitter.com/Bj5lXfBWpz

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) February 22, 2025

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

---

Putin should not have invaded. But he did.
Not just true, but the most important truth of all. RUSSIA started all of this.

Biden should not have openly assured the Ukraine that they could join Nato. But he did.
False. Refusing to categorically reject the idea is not synonymous with "assuring" membership.

So what exactly do you want the US to do? Will you send your sons/daughters to go fight for the Ukraine? Or do you just want to send our tax dollars? And to what end and how long?
Support others who are willing to fight, for as long as they are willing to fight, up to and including supporting any future insurgency against a victorious Russia (which we most definitely will do, should such happen).

.

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It is amazing how hard people work to ignore very elementary geo-strategic realities: Ukraine is a sovereign country which was invaded by Russia without any cause whatsoever, an act which was a significant threat to Nato, an alliance to which we are a member. Russia committed an act of war; Ukraine did not. Nato is significantly more threatened by Russian actions than Russia than vice-versa.

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You're wrong. Biden did in fact assure them that they could join nato.

As for the rest of your comments, I have no problem with Ukraine continuing to fight.
So how much taxpayer money are you willing to just give away so Ukraine can bleed Russia. 100 billion per year? 200 billion? Just curious.

Personally, I think Europe should foot much of the bill. I also think that if we are going to fund/arm them in huge amounts, getting some favors/pay/guarantees in return for America would be reasonable. So I don't disagree entirely with you. There is value in bleeding Russia, but I wouldn't want to incentivize millions of deaths to do it. So if they want to continue to fight, let's sell them weapons and intelligence, but shelling out unlimited cash clearly makes it very easy for the Ukrainian oligarchs to keep killing off their own people without any personal sacrifice.

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Show your work here.

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You have google, it's quite easily found in the public domain. And two months later after Biden assured them it was up to the Ukraine to join or not, Russia invaded.

Yeah, I know ... Russia was always going to invade, blah blah blah. That conversation had nothing to do with it, blah blah blah.

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Didn't find it on Google. Furthermore, you didn't say "it was up to Ukraine". You said Biden assured them they could join. Everyone knows that "up to Ukraine" goes back to all the required changes necessary to qualify, as well as a vote by the members. You guys are playing fast and loose with the truth. It's getting old.

ATL Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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whiterock said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Ukraine Never Should Have Made the Mistake of Getting Invaded

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Putin should not have invaded. But he did.
Not just true, but the most important truth of all. RUSSIA started all of this.

Biden should not have openly assured the Ukraine that they could join Nato. But he did.
False. Refusing to categorically reject the idea is not synonymous with "assuring" membership.

So what exactly do you want the US to do? Will you send your sons/daughters to go fight for the Ukraine? Or do you just want to send our tax dollars? And to what end and how long?
Support others who are willing to fight, for as long as they are willing to fight, up to and including supporting any future insurgency against a victorious Russia (which we most definitely will do, should such happen).

.

---

It is amazing how hard people work to ignore very elementary geo-strategic realities: Ukraine is a sovereign country which was invaded by Russia without any cause whatsoever, an act which was a significant threat to Nato, an alliance to which we are a member. Russia committed an act of war; Ukraine did not. Nato is significantly more threatened by Russian actions than Russia than vice-versa.

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You're wrong. Biden did in fact assure them that they could join nato.

As for the rest of your comments, I have no problem with Ukraine continuing to fight.
So how much taxpayer money are you willing to just give away so Ukraine can bleed Russia. 100 billion per year? 200 billion? Just curious.

Personally, I think Europe should foot much of the bill. I also think that if we are going to fund/arm them in huge amounts, getting some favors/pay/guarantees in return for America would be reasonable. So I don't disagree entirely with you. There is value in bleeding Russia, but I wouldn't want to incentivize millions of deaths to do it. So if they want to continue to fight, let's sell them weapons and intelligence, but shelling out unlimited cash clearly makes it very easy for the Ukrainian oligarchs to keep killing off their own people without any personal sacrifice.

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Show your work here.

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You have google, it's quite easily found in the public domain. And two months later after Biden assured them it was up to the Ukraine to join or not, Russia invaded.

Yeah, I know ... Russia was always going to invade, blah blah blah. That conversation had nothing to do with it, blah blah blah.

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Didn't find it on Google. Furthermore, you didn't say "it was up to Ukraine". You said Biden assured them they could join. Everyone knows that "up to Ukraine" goes back to all the required changes necessary to qualify, as well as a vote by the members. You guys are playing fast and loose with the truth. It's getting old.

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Biden said it's up to Ukraine, so that means if Ukraine wants in, they can join. You want to make that some huge obstacle and hoops they'd have to jump through. Whatever you want to pretend, Clearly it's an invitation. So yeah, it's not fast and loose with what he said, you're just being obtuse.