Sam Lowry said:They are actually rather poorly documented. A few attempts have been claimed, and one Ukrainian official said simply that he "believed" there had been a dozen or more. The best known attempt was carried out by Ukrainian military officers with alleged ties to Russia, but we only have Ukraine's word for that. An attempt by Ukraine's military makes plenty of sense given widespread discontent with Zelensky's leadership. Putin on the other hand has plenty for which to thank Zelensky. His unwavering stubbornness and tendency to reinforce failure have stymied negotiations, but they've also greatly helped Russia on the battlefield. Anyway, the bottom line is that Zelensky spends most of his time in a bunker in Kyiv with little or no air defense at this point. If Putin really wanted him gone, he'd be buried alive tomorrow.Mothra said:There's some pretty well-documented failed assassination attempts. Are you arguing they were half-hearted?Sam Lowry said:Not really.sombear said:Sam Lowry said:The Russians could take out Zelensky any time they wanted.Mothra said:Well, let's use your logic for a moment. You allege that Ukraine is calling for regime change because it wants Putin to be prosecuted. We know that since the beginning of this war, Russia has attempted to assassinate Zelensky literally dozens of times. Does that not qualify as a demand for regime change, using the logic you've employed regarding war crimes prosecution?Sam Lowry said:If anyone's making stuff up, it's those who say Russia has always demanded regime change in Kiev. I made a similar point to yours--what kind of sense would it have made for Putin to make such a demand while negotiating in 2022? Of course the difference is that Putin wasn't calling for Zelensky's arrest at the time. Absurd as it is, that's exactly the kind of thing Zelensky does. Maybe you should take it up with him. It's almost as if he's not serious about negotiations and just wants a ceasefire to reconstitute his forces.Mothra said:And yet, there's been no demand by Ukraine that Putin step down in any of the negotiations. You're just wholesale making **** up at this point.Sam Lowry said:There's been very little in terms of direct negotiation with Ukraine. The US and Russia are the principal parties to the conflict, and they both increasingly see Zelensky as an obstacle.Mothra said:So, Ukraine's call for an international war crime tribunal to examine Putin's conduct is an "implied" call for regime change in direct negotiations between Russia and Ukraine?Sam Lowry said:Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.sombear said:Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.Sam Lowry said:Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.
I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.
There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .
Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.
The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.
Lol. There is that trademark spin we've all come to know and love. You're a hoot.
They've tried for over 3 years
Russia could win the war pretty quickly with the use of nukes as well. There's a reason they haven't used them.
But again, this doesn't change the point - Russia has tried for years to kill Zelensky.
Nothing but Russian propaganda BS from the lying traitor.
