Osodecentx said:Arab countries won't take them.Redbrickbear said:“we have to move the refugees from Gaza somewhere” https://t.co/ZfUSspJnXZ pic.twitter.com/Lvywvl9b7I
— Kaguya’s Top Gal (@hayasaka_aryan) November 20, 2023
Germany will?
FLBear5630 said:Osodecentx said:Arab countries won't take them.Redbrickbear said:“we have to move the refugees from Gaza somewhere” https://t.co/ZfUSspJnXZ pic.twitter.com/Lvywvl9b7I
— Kaguya’s Top Gal (@hayasaka_aryan) November 20, 2023
Germany will?
Yeah, well coming to neighborhood by you... Biden not going to miss this opportunity to further destabilize the US. Xi will be so happy with him.
Should we start throwing Muslims off buildings? They certainly create more global and social disruption than homosexuals. Plus they imprison and kill apostates, which goes counter to Biblical tenets for Christians.Realitybites said:historian said:
The Christian response should be one of love and compassion.
Toward the penitent. To those who won't listen you shake the dust off your feet and it is not in vain that Godly authorities bear the sword.Quote:
Acting out of hatred, which is the case of sharia, never produces anything good.
Is it though? Or is it simply an acknowledgment that some behaviors are so disruptive to the social order that they must be stopped.
Regardless, the broader point is that on this issue, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
Realitybites said:
Israeli Cabinet Approves Ceasefire
In addition, as part of the deal the Israeli government will release 150 Palestinian women and children from prison to return to their homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Self-serving argument in pursuit of the Palestinian cause. All the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have to do is to accept statehood and let Israel be Israel = the "two state solution." By refusing to do so, THEY create the apartheid. They do so because having their own states is not enough - they demand to control, under sharia law, all of Israel "from the river to the sea."Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
If you want qualifiers then that is reasonable.
Israel acts in the West Bank in an apartheid like fashion.
In the old Union of South Africa... Blacks were not consider citizens of South Africa...but citizens of various small Bantustans with not real power. They were subject to the all kind of cumbersome requirements on where they could live and travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
That is very similar to how Palestinians live in the West Bank.
[Amnesty International's new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians...in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.
Laws, policies and practices which are intended to maintain a cruel system of control over Palestinians, have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity.
Successive Israeli governments have pursued a strategy of establishing domination through discriminatory laws and policies which segregate Palestinians into enclaves, based on their legal status and residence.
Israel denies Palestinian citizens their rights to equal nationality and status, while Palestinians in the OPT face severe restrictions on freedom of movement. Israel also restricts Palestinians' rights to family unification in a profoundly discriminatory manner: for example, Palestinians from the OPT cannot gain residency or citizenship through marriage, which Jewish Israelis can.
Israel also places severe limitations on Palestinians' civil and political rights, to suppress dissent and maintain the system of oppression and domination. For example, millions of Palestinians in the West Bank remain subject to Israel's military rule and draconian military orders adopted since 1967.]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
whiterock said:Self-serving argument in pursuit of the Palestinian cause. All the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have to do is to accept statehood and let Israel be Israel = the "two state solution." By refusing to do so, THEY create the apartheid. They do so because having their own states is not enough - they demand to control, under sharia law, all of Israel "from the river to the sea."Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
If you want qualifiers then that is reasonable.
Israel acts in the West Bank in an apartheid like fashion.
In the old Union of South Africa... Blacks were not consider citizens of South Africa...but citizens of various small Bantustans with not real power. They were subject to the all kind of cumbersome requirements on where they could live and travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
That is very similar to how Palestinians live in the West Bank.
[Amnesty International's new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians...in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.
Laws, policies and practices which are intended to maintain a cruel system of control over Palestinians, have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity.
Successive Israeli governments have pursued a strategy of establishing domination through discriminatory laws and policies which segregate Palestinians into enclaves, based on their legal status and residence.
Israel denies Palestinian citizens their rights to equal nationality and status, while Palestinians in the OPT face severe restrictions on freedom of movement. Israel also restricts Palestinians' rights to family unification in a profoundly discriminatory manner: for example, Palestinians from the OPT cannot gain residency or citizenship through marriage, which Jewish Israelis can.
Israel also places severe limitations on Palestinians' civil and political rights, to suppress dissent and maintain the system of oppression and domination. For example, millions of Palestinians in the West Bank remain subject to Israel's military rule and draconian military orders adopted since 1967.]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Self-serving argument in pursuit of the Palestinian cause. All the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have to do is to accept statehood and let Israel be Israel = the "two state solution." By refusing to do so, THEY create the apartheid. They do so because having their own states is not enough - they demand to control, under sharia law, all of Israel "from the river to the sea."Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
If you want qualifiers then that is reasonable.
Israel acts in the West Bank in an apartheid like fashion.
In the old Union of South Africa... Blacks were not consider citizens of South Africa...but citizens of various small Bantustans with not real power. They were subject to the all kind of cumbersome requirements on where they could live and travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
That is very similar to how Palestinians live in the West Bank.
[Amnesty International's new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians...in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.
Laws, policies and practices which are intended to maintain a cruel system of control over Palestinians, have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity.
Successive Israeli governments have pursued a strategy of establishing domination through discriminatory laws and policies which segregate Palestinians into enclaves, based on their legal status and residence.
Israel denies Palestinian citizens their rights to equal nationality and status, while Palestinians in the OPT face severe restrictions on freedom of movement. Israel also restricts Palestinians' rights to family unification in a profoundly discriminatory manner: for example, Palestinians from the OPT cannot gain residency or citizenship through marriage, which Jewish Israelis can.
Israel also places severe limitations on Palestinians' civil and political rights, to suppress dissent and maintain the system of oppression and domination. For example, millions of Palestinians in the West Bank remain subject to Israel's military rule and draconian military orders adopted since 1967.]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Not even close to all Palestinians want to "drive Israel into the sea"…not to mention with a 1st world economy, modern powerful military, and 80-200 nuclear weapons…its pure insanity to think anyone can do that to Israel.
What interesting is that a majority of Israelis don't want a two State solution.
[Only 35% of Israelis think "a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully," according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April]
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
[44 percent of West Bank respondents, a seven-point plurality, said that ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza to achieve a two-state solution was their main goal.]
But in general majorities on both sides don't favor a two State solution anymore it seems.
Sad
KaiBear said:Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Self-serving argument in pursuit of the Palestinian cause. All the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have to do is to accept statehood and let Israel be Israel = the "two state solution." By refusing to do so, THEY create the apartheid. They do so because having their own states is not enough - they demand to control, under sharia law, all of Israel "from the river to the sea."Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
If you want qualifiers then that is reasonable.
Israel acts in the West Bank in an apartheid like fashion.
In the old Union of South Africa... Blacks were not consider citizens of South Africa...but citizens of various small Bantustans with not real power. They were subject to the all kind of cumbersome requirements on where they could live and travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
That is very similar to how Palestinians live in the West Bank.
[Amnesty International's new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians...in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.
Laws, policies and practices which are intended to maintain a cruel system of control over Palestinians, have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity.
Successive Israeli governments have pursued a strategy of establishing domination through discriminatory laws and policies which segregate Palestinians into enclaves, based on their legal status and residence.
Israel denies Palestinian citizens their rights to equal nationality and status, while Palestinians in the OPT face severe restrictions on freedom of movement. Israel also restricts Palestinians' rights to family unification in a profoundly discriminatory manner: for example, Palestinians from the OPT cannot gain residency or citizenship through marriage, which Jewish Israelis can.
Israel also places severe limitations on Palestinians' civil and political rights, to suppress dissent and maintain the system of oppression and domination. For example, millions of Palestinians in the West Bank remain subject to Israel's military rule and draconian military orders adopted since 1967.]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Not even close to all Palestinians want to "drive Israel into the sea"…not to mention with a 1st world economy, modern powerful military, and 80-200 nuclear weapons…its pure insanity to think anyone can do that to Israel.
What interesting is that a majority of Israelis don't want a two State solution.
[Only 35% of Israelis think "a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully," according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April]
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
[44 percent of West Bank respondents, a seven-point plurality, said that ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza to achieve a two-state solution was their main goal.]
But in general majorities on both sides don't favor a two State solution anymore it seems.
Sad
Yeah the Jews just had 1400 of their people massacred via a surprise attack during one their their most sacred holidays .
Shocking they are not in the mood to turn the other cheek still again.
You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Why is that? Gaza has a port, beaches, and a City of 2 million. They have had control since 2005, yet there is no economic base, no education, no basic services. BUT, they do have a tunnel system the most sophisticated in the world. They do have 100k missiles. They are able to train a terrorist army. Gaza is in the shape it is because it trusted Hamas. Hama is about HamasRedbrickbear said:You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Hamas controls a poor area of land about the size of McLennan county with no real economy to speak of and with about 2 million people.
Israel is a first world economy, has 9 million people, much larger in land size, and has nuclear weapons.
Lets deal in reality.
Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis....Israel just killed at least 12,000+ Palestinians and is leveling most of Gaza. Some say 1.7 million Gazan residents have been displaced.
Attacking Israel just gets the Palestinians killed...they have no real power to threated the existence of that powerful nation-state.
FLBear5630 said:Why is that? Gaza has a port, beaches, and a City of 2 million. They have had control since 2005, yet there is no economic base, no education, no basic services. BUT, they do have a tunnel system…Redbrickbear said:You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Hamas controls a poor area of land about the size of McLennan county with no real economy to speak of and with about 2 million people.
Israel is a first world economy, has 9 million people, much larger in land size, and has nuclear weapons.
Lets deal in reality.
Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis....Israel just killed at least 12,000+ Palestinians and is leveling most of Gaza. Some say 1.7 million Gazan residents have been displaced.
Attacking Israel just gets the Palestinians killed...they have no real power to threated the existence of that powerful nation-state.
We are in agreement there. I also believe if the Palestinians want to create a Nation or City State Israel would work with them. World is getting to small to fight in your own region, same with us and Mexico and Central America. China is enough of a threat without making it more difficult.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Why is that? Gaza has a port, beaches, and a City of 2 million. They have had control since 2005, yet there is no economic base, no education, no basic services. BUT, they do have a tunnel system…Redbrickbear said:You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Hamas controls a poor area of land about the size of McLennan county with no real economy to speak of and with about 2 million people.
Israel is a first world economy, has 9 million people, much larger in land size, and has nuclear weapons.
Lets deal in reality.
Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis....Israel just killed at least 12,000+ Palestinians and is leveling most of Gaza. Some say 1.7 million Gazan residents have been displaced.
Attacking Israel just gets the Palestinians killed...they have no real power to threated the existence of that powerful nation-state.
Well then we are talking about how much Hamas sucks.
And you are right.
Hamas decided to attack Israel, a country they can NOT defeat, instead of working with the Ashkenazi economic class of Israel to make Gaza a successful place.
As much as I criticize the Israeli occupation of the West Bank…Hamas needs far far more criticism for how they have ruled Gaza.
Hamas is directly responsible for killed Palestinians
Instead of engaging in a non-violent resistance movement …which could be successful…they have chosen a violent resistance movement which is doomed to failure.
historian said:
Gaza has no economy to speak of because they devote most of their resources to obtaining weapons to use in killing Jews. And all the smokescreen about "innocent Palestinians" is a red herring. When they had a chance the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power & now the place is under a brutal dictatorship which is not a surprise to anyone. Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people routinely use them as human shield. Their Headquarters was in the hospital! Besides there's plenty of evidence that the Palestinian people still support them. I've seen reports that on October 7 civilians joined in on the brutality.
It's amazing what lengths Leftists (aka Hamas supporters, aka antisemites) will go to defend the indefensible!
Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Why is that? Gaza has a port, beaches, and a City of 2 million. They have had control since 2005, yet there is no economic base, no education, no basic services. BUT, they do have a tunnel system…Redbrickbear said:You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Hamas controls a poor area of land about the size of McLennan county with no real economy to speak of and with about 2 million people.
Israel is a first world economy, has 9 million people, much larger in land size, and has nuclear weapons.
Lets deal in reality.
Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis....Israel just killed at least 12,000+ Palestinians and is leveling most of Gaza. Some say 1.7 million Gazan residents have been displaced.
Attacking Israel just gets the Palestinians killed...they have no real power to threated the existence of that powerful nation-state.
Well then we are talking about how much Hamas sucks.
And you are right.
Hamas decided to attack Israel, a country they can NOT defeat, instead of working with the Ashkenazi economic class of Israel to make Gaza a successful place.
As much as I criticize the Israeli occupation of the West Bank…Hamas needs far far more criticism for how they have ruled Gaza.
Hamas is directly responsible for killed Palestinians
Instead of engaging in a non-violent resistance movement …which could be successful…they have chosen a violent resistance movement which is doomed to failure.
Osodecentx said:Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Why is that? Gaza has a port, beaches, and a City of 2 million. They have had control since 2005, yet there is no economic base, no education, no basic services. BUT, they do have a tunnel system…Redbrickbear said:You think Hamas has the power to threated the "survival of Israel"KaiBear said:
Doesn't matter and you know it .
Events have overcome any silly polling .
Israel is attempting to guarantee their own survival for another 50 years.
Hamas controls a poor area of land about the size of McLennan county with no real economy to speak of and with about 2 million people.
Israel is a first world economy, has 9 million people, much larger in land size, and has nuclear weapons.
Lets deal in reality.
Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis....Israel just killed at least 12,000+ Palestinians and is leveling most of Gaza. Some say 1.7 million Gazan residents have been displaced.
Attacking Israel just gets the Palestinians killed...they have no real power to threated the existence of that powerful nation-state.
Well then we are talking about how much Hamas sucks.
And you are right.
Hamas decided to attack Israel, a country they can NOT defeat, instead of working with the Ashkenazi economic class of Israel to make Gaza a successful place.
As much as I criticize the Israeli occupation of the West Bank…Hamas needs far far more criticism for how they have ruled Gaza.
Hamas is directly responsible for killed Palestinians
Instead of engaging in a non-violent resistance movement …which could be successful…they have chosen a violent resistance movement which is doomed to failure.
Who are you & what have you done with Red?
You can't even frame the problem correctly. Words mean things. That statement in bold is not what Israeli's want. It's what they think is possible.Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Self-serving argument in pursuit of the Palestinian cause. All the Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have to do is to accept statehood and let Israel be Israel = the "two state solution." By refusing to do so, THEY create the apartheid. They do so because having their own states is not enough - they demand to control, under sharia law, all of Israel "from the river to the sea."Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" is said (as you have repeatedly) with no qualifiers. Most are simply ignorant of how factually incorrect that truly is. Some even spin so badly as to say "occupied territories" as if to suggest that Gaza is occupied (which it was not) instead of pointing to reality - that only the West Bank is occupied territory. Only an even smaller number (like you) know that only the West Bank is occupied, yet still use the phrase "Israel is an apartheid state" (even though it's not exactly "apartheid" as the term itself was practiced in South Africa.)Redbrickbear said:Quote:But. wait. I thought you said Israel was an apartheid state? how could that be? Which statement is in error? The one above, or the prior one about apartheid state?Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
So now you are using the word stolen.
Ok, the past being what it is and all….should the USA steal more Indian land in 2023?
Should our Army occupy the last reservations and brutalize the local population?
Should we let settlers establish new settlements on the land and shoot rubber bullets and billy club Indians if they protest?
If the native Americans on a reservation decided to take a trip to Norman Oklahoma and slaughter hundreds of people I would absolutely stand behind the demolition of those people as well as any measures designed to make sure they couldn't do it again. As would any sane, rational person.
Would be interesting for him to finally disclose what motivates his antisemitism.
lol I would like to know what criticism of Palestinians has to do with "Islamophobia" or criticism of Israel has to do with "anti-semitism"
You use progressive terminology which is strange for someone who considers themselves conservative.
Not all Palestinians are even Muslims.
Not all Israelis are even Jews
They most certainly practice apartheid (separateness) in the occupied territories.
I think that is what most people are alluding to when they use that term.
Different roads, schools, areas of cities, check points, etc depending on your ethnic group
But the phrase "apartheid" does have a lot more "oomph" than the word "occupied." So ends justify the means.
If you want qualifiers then that is reasonable.
Israel acts in the West Bank in an apartheid like fashion.
In the old Union of South Africa... Blacks were not consider citizens of South Africa...but citizens of various small Bantustans with not real power. They were subject to the all kind of cumbersome requirements on where they could live and travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
That is very similar to how Palestinians live in the West Bank.
[Amnesty International's new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians...in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.
Laws, policies and practices which are intended to maintain a cruel system of control over Palestinians, have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently impoverished, and in a constant state of fear and insecurity.
Successive Israeli governments have pursued a strategy of establishing domination through discriminatory laws and policies which segregate Palestinians into enclaves, based on their legal status and residence.
Israel denies Palestinian citizens their rights to equal nationality and status, while Palestinians in the OPT face severe restrictions on freedom of movement. Israel also restricts Palestinians' rights to family unification in a profoundly discriminatory manner: for example, Palestinians from the OPT cannot gain residency or citizenship through marriage, which Jewish Israelis can.
Israel also places severe limitations on Palestinians' civil and political rights, to suppress dissent and maintain the system of oppression and domination. For example, millions of Palestinians in the West Bank remain subject to Israel's military rule and draconian military orders adopted since 1967.]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Not even close to all Palestinians want to "drive Israel into the sea"…not to mention with a 1st world economy, modern powerful military, and 80-200 nuclear weapons…its pure insanity to think anyone can do that to Israel.
What interesting is that a majority of Israelis don't want a two State solution.
[Only 35% of Israelis think "a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully," according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April]
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
[44 percent of West Bank respondents, a seven-point plurality, said that ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza to achieve a two-state solution was their main goal.]
But in general majorities on both sides don't favor a two State solution anymore it seems.
Sad
Biden: “I cannot prove what I’m about to say,” but Hamas attacked Israel because I was very close to bringing peace to the region. pic.twitter.com/m8IfJvlivL
— Tom Elliott (@tomselliott) November 24, 2023
BearFan33 said:
None of the Americans that I could see. America last is Team Biden's philosophy.
Also, Iran is seeing how much they can push Biden and just how weak he is. You will see an uptick in attacks against US troops in Syria, I would be. That is just how Iran operates, they will push diplomatically, than push militarily. Biden is sending a message of weakness. This is getting more dangerous every move Biden makes.Realitybites said:BearFan33 said:
None of the Americans that I could see. America last is Team Biden's philosophy.
No Americans released.
Americans last is sort of the ruling philosophy in DC. You saw it after this initially started when other nations flew their citizens all the way home for free while US citizens were only flown to the nearest non hostile location and dropped off, only to be charged for that privilege.
Hamas say they've decided to delay second phase of hostage release until Israel commits to allowing aid trucks to enter northern Gazahttps://t.co/WzMJWrTXwi
— Haaretz.com (@haaretzcom) November 25, 2023
Keep in mind that we don't even actually know how many of the hostages are alive. It was inevitable that Hamas would start playing games and try to create delays/add demands. The goal was to get as many out before that happens as you can before that happens. https://t.co/CdIqm8psZ1
— AG (@AGHamilton29) November 25, 2023
If hostages are not released as agreed in 5hrs (midnight in Israel), Israel says it will resume the war. https://t.co/1wdsNnkMic
— Laura E. Adkins (@Laura_E_Adkins) November 25, 2023
"lost and has now been found" https://t.co/4p4z7drkOh pic.twitter.com/bw8W5tX6PU
— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) November 25, 2023
Jack Bauer said:
This is who you are marching in the streets for...."lost and has now been found" https://t.co/4p4z7drkOh pic.twitter.com/bw8W5tX6PU
— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) November 25, 2023
Quote:
Abigail's father, Roy, was reportedly holding his daughter in his arms when he was shot and killed, along with her mother, Smadar, during an attack on the Kfar Aza kibbutz, in southern Israel.
"We thought at the beginning that Abigail had died, but we later found out that she survived. Her father was able to shield her with his body," said cousin Noa Naftali, according to CBS News.
"She crawled out from underneath him and went over to the neighbors, who took her in, and they were also taken hostage a mother, a 10-year-old, an 8-year old and a 4-year old who goes to preschool with Abigail."
4 year Abigail Edan is free from Hamas terrorists pic.twitter.com/OhnfqYpv1I
— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) November 26, 2023
Realitybites said:
We are not a strong country right now. Yes we have nukes and a large military. We also have a massive debt, inflation, lack of social cohesion, no control of our borders, out of control crime, failed education system... Rather than pretending to be strong through cosmetic gunboat diplomacy, we need to retrench and address those factors that weakened us as a nation. Continuing to pretend that this is 1985 is only going to result in us going off the cliff like Wile E. Coyote. We can start by closing all our military bases in the EU. Almost 100 years after the end of the second world war there is no excuse for us to be there.
