ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

Guy Noir said:

---

The current war against the Hamas is a grim affair. Israel knew this going into the war. The best thing is to let the war run its course and to root out as many Hamas from Gaza as possible and then establish a governing structure that does not allow the Hamas to have any control in Gaza. The pressure the USA is putting on Israel to go to a permanent cease fire, before the IDF completes rooting out the Hamas, is not supporting Israel during this tough time. War is a terrible thing. The Palestinians allowed the Hamas to bring this war on to Gaza.

---

Agreed. War is always terrible but it won't end until Christ returns and establishes His kingdom.

"War is hell."
William T. Sherman

KaiBear said:

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ShooterTX said:

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KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

KaiBear said:

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ShooterTX said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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It's not about revenge. It's about survival. Hamas exists to destroy Israel & murder Jews. They are the genocidal force in this conflict. They must be destroyed so that they can never threaten Israel again. Israel is totally justified in their conduct of the war.

It's an existential crisis for Israel and anyone chanting "From the river to the sea" is also genocidal and not to be trusted. Anyone calling for a ceasefire on any terms other then Israel's is the same. Antisemitism is rampant, on the rise, and NEVER justified. (Harvard anyone?)

It's uncivilized and unintelligent. It's a fraudulent argument. Can I be any more emphatic?

---

With respect

I don't believe killing the entire population of Gaza will insure everlasting peace for the Jewish State .

If Hamas isn't willing to reach a truce at this point ; killing another 20000-40,000 individuals probably won't matter either.

---

It's a fallacy to think that Hamas can be negotiated with, or will honor any negotiated agreement.
Hamas doesn't want to live in peace.
The only hope for any kind of peace is to eradicate them completely.

---

Then you must be willing to eradicate all the orphans in Gaza.

As many will certainly grow up seeking revenge for the deaths of their Mothers and Fathers.

---

That's not true. People have often made this claim that hardship creates terrorists... not true. Plenty of terrorists have come out of affluent households in Britain. It is just the evil that results from the demonic religion of Islam.

If those orphans are educated and raised in a civilized culture... they won't become terrorists.

---

It is currently exceedingly difficult to legally emigrate from Gaza.

The more people the Israelis kill the more Hamas recruits they are going to generate.


So either Israel needs to slaughter them all, somehow coerce Egypt to accept the survivors as legal refugees or make a peace treaty giving the Palestinians their own state.

And none of these options is likely to happen.


So the misery goes on.

---

Yet the Gaza population voted for Hamas, Hamas keeps attacking Israel and complains when they lose and Israel responds. Maybe these people need to not support Hamas .

---

Crowed, under employed, desperate people make desperate choices.

As long as the people can't legally escape from Gaza , in their misery they will continue to lash out.

So either commit genicide on every man, women and child in Gaza, give them their own state ( which is unlikely to bring a lasting peace ) or somehow convince the rest of the Muslim world to accept theim as refugees.

---

This is just bull*****

The people of Gaza have no where NEAR the levels of poverty as people in India... and yet the Indians are not known for terrorism.

Quit making excuses for evil. There is NO excuse for butchering babies and raping women in the hundreds.

Your defense of Hamas is disgusting.

---

LOL

You are kidding right ?

The Hindu's and Muslims has been slaughtering each other throughout India for centuries .

Read up what happened when the English pulled out.


Hundreds of thousands died .



And no one is defending Hamas.


But 25000 dead for 1500 is enough revenge .


Time for a cease fire.

---

That is the kind of thinking that sows the seeds of the next war with fertilizer.

"The purpose of war is to make a better peace."
--Basil Liddell-Hart

Israel cannot afford to go to war and leave in place any ability for any authority in Gaza to pose a military threat to Israel in a meaningful timeframe. That neither Egypt nor Saudi nor Jordan have lifted a finger to stop Israel should tell you that they understand Israel's position and believe they benefit from it as well. The destruction of Hamas has cost Iran decades of huge investment in a proxy army that destabilized the entire area.

Israel has handled its portion of WWIII like a boss.

---

Either

A. Thousands more civilians in Gaza are going to die of exposure, malnutrition, disease or air strikes.

Or


B. A cease fire will established



Those are the only 2 choices.


If 25,000 dead civilians isn't enough…..how many more are necessary ?

If 25,000 dead can't bring security to Israel ….why would an extra 50,000 dead do so ?

---

What was the magic number of dead civilians that finally created the end of WW2?

Moron... wars don't end because of the number of dead civilians. Only a fool thinks that wars are determined in such ways.
Hamas will never agree to a cease fire because they do not want peace. So if you truly think that those are the only two options... then get ready for thousands more dead... because Hamas doesn't give a **** about Palestinians... they only care about killing Jews.

If you want peace in Gaza, then you need to direct your attention towards Hamas not Israel.

---

Amusing when a clod like you, who clearly doesn't know the first thing about history or geopolitics ; draws the exactly wrong conclusion.

Wars are greatly impacted by the death count of civilians.

And that has been the case from the beginning off WW2.

Yes, the mentally impaired enjoy playing Rambo from the safety of their desktop computer, but in the real world human suffering is an unforgivable nightmare.

Israel has made its point. There is nothing to be gained security wise killing another 25,000 to 50,000 women and children.

I expect a cease fire to be established within the month.
As it is in Israel interests to do so.

---

Israel's strategic thinking is not based upon the number of enemy deaths but on their success obtaining their strategic goals. This is correct. They would be extremely foolish if they were to end the war prematurely: that is, before they achieve victory. The genocidal terrorists must be completely destroyed. No other outcome is acceptable.

This is the wrong conclusion. Israel already had security, surrounded by Arab nations, and was solidifying that reality before the Islamofascists tried to carry out their genocidal fantasies on October 7.

The ONLY acceptable outcome is the total & complete destruction of Hamas.

They had a two state solution in Gaza. Hamas negated that in October 7. What follows might be an independent Arab govt, the ideal, but it might be something else.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Israel isn't worried about being "beaten".

---

Then why are the Israeli lobbyists over here begging & threating our politicians and extorting them for billions in tax payer money?

You are telling me that the Israelis did not need our cash this whole time?

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Israel isn't worried about being "beaten".

---

Then why are the Israeli lobbyists over here begging & threating our politicians and extorting them for billions in tax payer money?

You are telling me that the Israelis did not need our cash this whole time?

---

Nice deflection. Try to stay on topic.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

FWIW, it's easier to hold an area 1/8 the size of Rhode Island than an area the size of Texas.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

Hamas is not an ethnicity

historian said:

---

This is the wrong conclusion. Israel already had security, surrounded by Arab nations, and was solidifying that reality before the Islamofascists tried to carry out their genocidal fantasies on October 7.

The ONLY acceptable outcome is the total & complete destruction of Hamas.

---

Comfortably typed without having to witness thousands of children slowly dying from exposure, disease and malnutrition.

Let's be honest; if it was your family involved; there would be several other 'acceptable' outcomes.

In any case you are most likely to be disappointed.

Because unless Israel is willing ( and able ) to kill every single resident of Gaza........Hamas will not be completely destroyed. In fact it is far more likely other organizations will rise up.

The murder of 1500 Jews has been avenged.

Being responsible for the deaths of additional thousnds of civilians at this point is irresponsible and self defeating.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

Hamas is not an ethnicity

---

Neither is the Taliban or the IRA

Do US was NEVER committed in Afghanistan to the degree that Israel is committed to fighting for their survival against threats like Hamas.

My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

Hamas is not an ethnicity

---

Neither is the Taliban or the IRA

---

Your point is?

You're the one who referenced ethnic cleansing.I have accused nobody of that.

historian said:

---

My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

---

If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

Does he know what a woman is?

Blinken does not have a record of honesty and integrity. No one in this administration does. He's probably parroting Hamas propaganda like the media does.

The ONLY time for a ceasefire is after Israel destroys Hamas completely.

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

---

My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

---

If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

---

Based on what scenario ?

---

Hamas. Hezbollah and friends will recover and do what they live to do

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

---

The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

Hamas is not an ethnicity

---

Neither is the Taliban or the IRA

---

Your point is?

You're the one who referenced ethnic cleansing.I have accused nobody of that.

---

Well it's ethnic cleansing if they plan on expelling all the Palestinians from Gaza.

Something a few of their politicians have floated and a few posters on here have rooted on

Again what is the plan here? Hold 2 million Palestinians in Gaza under military rule forever? Along with 3.5 million more in the West Bank? Expel them to Europe?

KaiBear said:

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ShooterTX said:

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KaiBear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

historian said:

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It's not about revenge. It's about survival. Hamas exists to destroy Israel & murder Jews. They are the genocidal force in this conflict. They must be destroyed so that they can never threaten Israel again. Israel is totally justified in their conduct of the war.

It's an existential crisis for Israel and anyone chanting "From the river to the sea" is also genocidal and not to be trusted. Anyone calling for a ceasefire on any terms other then Israel's is the same. Antisemitism is rampant, on the rise, and NEVER justified. (Harvard anyone?)

It's uncivilized and unintelligent. It's a fraudulent argument. Can I be any more emphatic?

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With respect

I don't believe killing the entire population of Gaza will insure everlasting peace for the Jewish State .

If Hamas isn't willing to reach a truce at this point ; killing another 20000-40,000 individuals probably won't matter either.

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It's a fallacy to think that Hamas can be negotiated with, or will honor any negotiated agreement.
Hamas doesn't want to live in peace.
The only hope for any kind of peace is to eradicate them completely.

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Then you must be willing to eradicate all the orphans in Gaza.

As many will certainly grow up seeking revenge for the deaths of their Mothers and Fathers.

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That's not true. People have often made this claim that hardship creates terrorists... not true. Plenty of terrorists have come out of affluent households in Britain. It is just the evil that results from the demonic religion of Islam.

If those orphans are educated and raised in a civilized culture... they won't become terrorists.

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It is currently exceedingly difficult to legally emigrate from Gaza.

The more people the Israelis kill the more Hamas recruits they are going to generate.


So either Israel needs to slaughter them all, somehow coerce Egypt to accept the survivors as legal refugees or make a peace treaty giving the Palestinians their own state.

And none of these options is likely to happen.


So the misery goes on.

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Yet the Gaza population voted for Hamas, Hamas keeps attacking Israel and complains when they lose and Israel responds. Maybe these people need to not support Hamas .

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Crowed, under employed, desperate people make desperate choices.

As long as the people can't legally escape from Gaza , in their misery they will continue to lash out.

So either commit genicide on every man, women and child in Gaza, give them their own state ( which is unlikely to bring a lasting peace ) or somehow convince the rest of the Muslim world to accept theim as refugees.

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This is just bull*****

The people of Gaza have no where NEAR the levels of poverty as people in India... and yet the Indians are not known for terrorism.

Quit making excuses for evil. There is NO excuse for butchering babies and raping women in the hundreds.

Your defense of Hamas is disgusting.

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LOL

You are kidding right ?

The Hindu's and Muslims has been slaughtering each other throughout India for centuries .

Read up what happened when the English pulled out.


Hundreds of thousands died .



And no one is defending Hamas.


But 25000 dead for 1500 is enough revenge .


Time for a cease fire.

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That is the kind of thinking that sows the seeds of the next war with fertilizer.

"The purpose of war is to make a better peace."
--Basil Liddell-Hart

Israel cannot afford to go to war and leave in place any ability for any authority in Gaza to pose a military threat to Israel in a meaningful timeframe. That neither Egypt nor Saudi nor Jordan have lifted a finger to stop Israel should tell you that they understand Israel's position and believe they benefit from it as well. The destruction of Hamas has cost Iran decades of huge investment in a proxy army that destabilized the entire area.

Israel has handled its portion of WWIII like a boss.

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Either

A. Thousands more civilians in Gaza are going to die of exposure, malnutrition, disease or air strikes.

Or


B. A cease fire will established



Those are the only 2 choices.


If 25,000 dead civilians isn't enough…..how many more are necessary ?

If 25,000 dead can't bring security to Israel ….why would an extra 50,000 dead do so ?

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What was the magic number of dead civilians that finally created the end of WW2?

Moron... wars don't end because of the number of dead civilians. Only a fool thinks that wars are determined in such ways.
Hamas will never agree to a cease fire because they do not want peace. So if you truly think that those are the only two options... then get ready for thousands more dead... because Hamas doesn't give a **** about Palestinians... they only care about killing Jews.

If you want peace in Gaza, then you need to direct your attention towards Hamas not Israel.

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Amusing when a clod like you, who clearly doesn't know the first thing about history or geopolitics ; draws the exactly wrong conclusion.

Wars are greatly impacted by the death count of civilians.

And that has been the case from the beginning off WW2.

Yes, the mentally impaired enjoy playing Rambo from the safety of their desktop computer, but in the real world human suffering is an unforgivable nightmare.

Israel has made its point. There is nothing to be gained security wise killing another 25,000 to 50,000 women and children.

I expect a cease fire to be established within the month.
As it is in Israel interests to do so.

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You are a moron.

Name a single war that ended because a certain number of civilians died, to make it equal.
It's never happened.

Wars end when one side is defeated or surrenders or when both sides agree to a negotiated peace.
Hamas doesn't want peace and cannot be trusted to hold to any negotiations.
So either Hamas or Israel will be defeated or forced to surrender.
Anything else is just the rantings of an idiot.

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

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The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

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If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

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Based on what scenario ?

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Hamas. Hezbollah and friends will recover and do what they live to do

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So you really believe these 2 organizations have the immediate capability to kill 'thousands' of Israelis in the event of a ceasefire ?

With what....AK 47's ?

KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

---

If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

---

Based on what scenario ?

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Hamas. Hezbollah and friends will recover and do what they live to do

---

So you really believe these 2 organizations have the immediate capability to kill 'thousands' of Israelis in the event of a ceasefire ?

With what....AK 47's ?

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Rocks I guess

KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

---

If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

---

Based on what scenario ?

---

Hamas. Hezbollah and friends will recover and do what they live to do

---

So you really believe these 2 organizations have the immediate capability to kill 'thousands' of Israelis in the event of a ceasefire ?

With what....AK 47's ?

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Why "immediate"? They will continue to murder innocent people as long as Iran keeps providing them tickets, guns, ammo, etc. This has been their M.O. since they were founded. If they kill thousands over a few days or a few years what difference does it make? The victims are still dead and the genocidal maniacs will still celebrate, along with their soulmates in the west.

No ceasefire until they are destroyed.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

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I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

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The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

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How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

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Apple meet orange

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I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

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Hamas is not an ethnicity

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Neither is the Taliban or the IRA

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Your point is?

You're the one who referenced ethnic cleansing.I have accused nobody of that.

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Well it's ethnic cleansing if they plan on expelling all the Palestinians from Gaza.

Something a few of their politicians have floated and a few posters on here have rooted on

Again what is the plan here? Hold 2 million Palestinians in Gaza under military rule forever? Along with 3.5 million more in the West Bank? Expel them to Europe?

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One of your favorite tactics is to take something someone (usually on the fringe) said and suggest it is official policy.

Nobody is expelling 2 million Gazans.

Yes, there will have to be some kind of interim rule, hopefully joint Arab.

historian said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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My family would never be involved in genocidal activity or support a terrorist organization determined to create a modern Holocaust.

I will not be disappointed because I take the long view of things and I know God will win in the end. I read the Bible & believe in it.

It's not about revenge. It's about destroying an enemy that must be destroyed.

Also, you keep repeating numbers, general or specific, that are based on Hamas propaganda. We have no reason to trust them.

---

The numbers come straight from the secretary of defense.

In fact US intelligence says the numbers involved may be even higher.

Enough is enough.


Time for a ceasefire .


Or the next 2000 to 10,000 lives lost might be Israelis .

---

If there is a ceasefire, the next thousands killed will definitely be Israelis.

---

Based on what scenario ?

---

Hamas. Hezbollah and friends will recover and do what they live to do

---

So you really believe these 2 organizations have the immediate capability to kill 'thousands' of Israelis in the event of a ceasefire ?

With what....AK 47's ?

---

Why "immediate"? They will continue to murder innocent people as long as Iran keeps providing them tickets, guns, ammo, etc. This has been their M.O. since they were founded. If they kill thousands over a few days or a few years what difference does it make? The victims are still dead and the genocidal maniacs will still celebrate, along with their soulmates in the west.

No ceasefire until they are destroyed.

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You are in for a major disappointment.

There will be a ceasefire within the next 45 days.

As Biden is feeling increasing heat from his core constituents.

Women, young and minority voters.

So Israel will be forced to play along. Not only by Biden, but by the economic cost of their extensive military mobilization.

Hamas will survive , although in a much weaker condition.

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

There is no body count metric in asymmetrical warfare, especially when the objective is the elimination of a threat. This is further complicated by the very nature of a threat that doesn't follow a traditional military engagement.

---

I guess normal people in the West...and the rest of the world want to know what the strategy is here.

Most reputable news sources say Hamas has about 30,000 fighters. (Israel has about 200,00 active troops and just called up about 360,000 reservists)

Israel says they have captured 9,000 Hamas fighters....the IDF claims to have killed another 12,000.

And they have blown up about 70% of the buildings in Gaza

Plus how many thousands of women and children they have killed.

There are two Million civilians in Gaza....how long do they have to suffer for this?

Its a small terrorist group with no chance of beating Israel...what's the end game? Destroy all the houses in Gaza? Kill 100,000 vs the 30,000 already killed.

Like us in Afghanistan a real question can be asked what is the end game and how is "victory" going to be defined in this situation?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

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The end game is removing Hamas from power either through force or surrender.

---

How did that work out for us in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

---

Apple meet orange

---

I don't know.

Eventually the USA had to realize it could not hold a poor area filled with Muslims forever...an area with a long term Islamist insurgency...

How will Israel do it?

If ethnic cleansing is what they are planning...the "final solution to the Gaza Palestinian problem"?

---

Hamas is not an ethnicity

---

Neither is the Taliban or the IRA

---

Your point is?

You're the one who referenced ethnic cleansing.I have accused nobody of that.

---

Well it's ethnic cleansing if they plan on expelling all the Palestinians from Gaza.

Something a few of their politicians have floated and a few posters on here have rooted on

Again what is the plan here? Hold 2 million Palestinians in Gaza under military rule forever? Along with 3.5 million more in the West Bank? Expel them to Europe?

---

One of your favorite tactics is to take something someone (usually on the fringe) said and suggest it is official policy.

Nobody is expelling 2 million Gazans.

...

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Well again then…what is the long term plan?

If it's not to expel the Palestinians (fringe it might be up still floated by some of the more evil Israeli ultras) then the plan is an endless military occupation of the area?


How will that solve the problem?