KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

Well, for 80 years it worked. Someone had to do it and the US as the Policemen limited the wars to regional types.

Are we ready for what happens when the US as cop isn't there? When we are relying on Putin and Xi's sense of fairness and human rights?

Not saying you are wrong, just that there are ramifications either way.

---

WW2

500,000 dead US servicemen

Result : Japan, Germany and Italy crushed. Millions dead.

Soviet Union rules Eastern Europe for over 50 years.
China goes communist


Korean War

38,000 US servicemen killed

Result : Mao shows the rest of the Far East the US can be beaten in a conventional war. China begins its journey towards dominance.

Vietnam War

53,000 US servicemen dead. Hundreds of thousands wounded.
Humiliation for the United States worldwide. American society begins its crumbling.

First Iraqi War. Bush and the US Army kicks ass. Follows UN mandate. Liberates Kuwait. Protects western oil nerfs.

2nd Iraqi War. US Army kicks ass again. Conquers Iraqi in one of the most tactically brilliant displays since the Mexican War.
US politicians then lose the peace. Iran power grows in the vacuum.



Meanwhile

9-11 over 3000 US civilians dead

---

The US started playing Policeman AFTER WW2.

All the wars you describe were regional and limited. They occurred because the US and our allies were in position to keep it to a regional war and not go through WW1 or WW2 again.

That is the point.

Now, you think that Korea wouldn't have grown into Viet Nam and beyond? That is your choice. We have not had a WW since 1945 with the US as Policeman and the number of dead is probably much less than if we weren't the Policeman.

I do agree that times have changed, I am not sure that model works going forward or if the cost has gotten too steep and the cost is outweighing the benefits. It is a good discussion.

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

Waco1947 said:

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Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

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BS

Waco1947 said:

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Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

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I have seen the signs calling Israel's defense initiative genocide, but those same protesters call for the elimination of Israel. The Palestinians are the ones calling for genocide.

Choosing to attack Israel, and take hostages, and shooting rockets into Israel is the reason the IDF is attacking them. It is not a motive of genocide.

Waco1947 said:

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Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

---

True

But your boy Biden and his administration gave Netanyahu the money and green light to proceed.

KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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historian said:

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It's still about survival for the Jews. They are an existential crisis fighting a war against barbaric terrorists who want them all dead. Too many posters in this forum dismiss or forget that fact. What's amazing is how some Israeli's seem to forget that as well. Although I'm I don't believe the propaganda from the antisemitic press on anything, particularly when it comes to numbers of self-hating Jews.

---

Over 550 Lebanese have been killed in the last 48 hours by indiscriminate Israeli air attacks.

What about their survival ?

Why are the lives of Israeli children more precious than Lebanese ?

---

Maybe the Lebanese should stop putting Hezbollah missiles in civilian houses. Could help. Sort of like Ukraine, Putin stops invading, no more attacks on Russia. Lebanon stops allowing missiles to be fired, no more missiles coming in Lebanon.

Or, they can leave. That's right Hezbollah won't let them, but its the IDF fault.

You were in the military, you give an evacuation order, give time to leave and then go forward. What should the IDF do? Just let them fire missiles into Israel? They have cruise missiles in houses.

---

A dead child, is a dead child, regardless if it's Israeli, Lebanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Palestinian, Kuwaitis, Iraqi or American.

With its nuclear weapons, armor and overwhelming air superiority; Israel feels immune to the consequences of its indiscriminate air attacks against a weak neighbor.

Hope Turkey finally brings some reality to the Zionists. Only then is there a real chance for a negotiated settlement.

Especially since our DC politicians have been bought and paid for by the Zionist lobbyists for decades.

The US needs to stop funding these butcheries. Period.
The US needs to stop using our poor and working class overseas to continue to bleed on behalf of our elites.


WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.

---

Might be right.

You have a better shot at peace is Israel wins than Hezbellan or Hamas. They will just find someone else to hate and kill. It is what they do.

---

They don't hate Swedes, Swiss, Hungarians, or anyone in Central or South America.

Maybe, just maybe it's because none of those countries launch air strikes throughout the Middle East periodically.

We simply need to be like a host of other countries and stop attempting to be the worlds policeman.

---

They don't hate those other groups as much as they do Israeli Jews because they are not neighbors. Most important, however, Arab hatred of Jews has been a reality for literally thousands of years. It is never justified but that is the reality of the Middle East.

Israel only launches air strikes against their enemies in retaliation for terrorist attacks. Again, both Hamas & Hezbollah have been killing their citizens fairly regularly for years. It is an act of war and demands a response. Israel is doing what any responsible government would do.

I do not understand how anyone could think that anyone should willingly be victims of indiscriminate murder and not be allowed to defend themselves, whether it's Israeli victims of terrorism or Americans victims of criminals.

Guy Noir said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Netanyahu and his right wing are committing genocide and we are complicit

---

I have seen the signs calling Israel's defense initiative genocide, but those same protesters call for the elimination of Israel. The Palestinians are the ones calling for genocide.

Choosing to attack Israel, and take hostages, and shooting rockets into Israel is the reason the IDF is attacking them. It is not a motive of genocide.

---

The antisemites are falling for genocide against Jess and are trying to do it. Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Hitler. It's all the same in their irrational hatred of a people. I don't understand it in Americans but antisemitism has never been rational. Bigotry of any kind is inherently irrational & evil.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
Matthew 22:39b

KaiBear said:

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Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

And communists didn't meddle?

What major countries have avoided Muslim terrorist attacks?

sombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

And communists didn't meddle?

What major countries have avoided Muslim terrorist attacks?

---

Really think our legions of permanently crippled servicemen care who is a 'major' country in the eyes of internet posters ?

We are being led into still more wars.


THINK !


Vote for a different approach.

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it. But you fail to recognize the cost of staying at home. You fail to recognize that the US stayed out of WW1 & WW2 for years, costing many more lives and allowing it to grow to WW size. A wise men once said isn't the life of a Lebanese baby the same as a Israeli? Isn't it humane if the US can save lives by entering earlier?

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it. But you fail to recognize the cost of staying at home. You fail to recognize that the US stayed out of WW1 & WW2 for years, costing many more lives and allowing it to grow to WW size. A wise men once said isn't the life of a Lebanese baby the same as a Israeli? Isn't it humane if the US can save lives by entering earlier?

---

Exactly what lives did our 53,000 KIA's save in Vietnam ?

Go Israel!!!!! Kick terrorist ****.

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

The U.S. had no reason to fight in WWI until 1917 and it was a world war in 1914. Our involvement did not cause that.

WWII was very different in many ways.

How can anyone overlook the fact that Israel was created in 1948 without regard to those who occupied the land for centuries?

Imagine if someone knocked on your front door and said your property belongs to us now.

When you have religious fanatics like Muslims and Jews stiring the pot you have a war with one side supplied with the West's latest and greatest military vs stone throwers.

I don't care who occupied the land centuries ago, we helped create this monster who is willing to kill 100 civilians to get 1 target.

Do I side with Hamas and Hezbollah? No. But when we try and paint Israel as the villian just remember who helped create this idiotic situation. Us. Yeah we had help from UK but we drove the bus.

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

ScottS said:

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Go Israel!!!!! Kick terrorist ****.

---

This aint football

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

How can anyone overlook the fact that Israel was created in 1948 without regard to those who occupied the land for centuries?

Imagine if someone knocked on your front door and said your property belongs to us now.

When you have religious fanatics like Muslims and Jews stiring the pot you have a war with one side supplied with the West's latest and greatest military vs stone throwers.

I don't care who occupied the land centuries ago, we helped create this monster who is willing to kill 100 civilians to get 1 target.

Do I side with Hamas and Hezbollah? No. But when we try and paint Israel as the villian just remember who helped create this idiotic situation. Us. Yeah we had help from UK but we drove the bus.

---

Wasn't near this simple but the UK and US did fundamentally 'drive the bus '.

+ 1

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

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Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines with billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

Your a n isolationist, get it.

---

Your a person who constantly throws that accusation out constantly

We get it

It's the card in your back pocket you always play.

"Muh World War II!"

---

No there are realities of the world where we don't have the luxury of just taking our ball and going home. It may make you feel better, but no one else is standing up to the Putin's and Xi's of the world.

There is more going on than your inconvenience or pocket book. Ostrich all you like. But the reason you had the opportunity for big pay checks and cheap prices was Americas role as policeman. You are experiencing some of what awaits if we don't police the world right now. When America is weak or withdrawn it goes to ****

---

We are in a military alliance network with more than 50 counties across the globe.

We have military bases all over the planet.

What the heck are you talking about "taking our ball and going home"?

No one has ever said we should withdraw from the whole world…something probably impossible for us even to do now….we argue against more unnecessary sand box wars in bum-f-Istan

[The USA has at least 750 military bases installed in 80 countries around the world. 173,000 troops are deployed in at least 159 countries]





https://ubique.americangeo.org/map-of-the-week/map-of-the-week-u-s-military-bases-around-the-world/

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900. Literally a class of one. I'm not naive to the internal and existential threats we face today in order to maintain that, but with all due respect, we aren't here without our efforts to exert might across the globe.

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

The people who occupied what is now Israel for centuries were never self-governing. For most of the past 3,500 years they were part of one empire of another: British, ottoman, Byzantine, Roman, Greek, Persian, Babylonian. Except for a few decades between the Greeks and the Romans, the last time the people who lived there governed themselves was the Old Testament kingdoms of Judah and Israel!

The new United Nations did offer the Palestinians their own state, the first of several such offers, when they recognized the new state of Israel but the Palestinians rejected this because of their irrational & genocidal hatred of the Jews and unwillingness to coexist beside them.

No one in 1948 had a reason to think more about them because they kept spitting people in the face who tried to help them. Modern sympathies for the Palestinians by western Marxists are due to a combination of antisemitism, ignorance, stupidity, and the desire to use them as pawns in larger geopolitical struggles (the Cold War, for example). This same combination explains at least some of those who paint Israel as the villain. Israel is not the villain.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

---

Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

---

The objective is to become the hyper power..

---

Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….


[the founding generation worried that an armed, professional force represented an untenable threat to the liberty of the people generally. Throughout history, the threat of military coupgovernments deposed from within by the very forces raised to protect themhas been a frequent concern….The experience with professional armies during the 40 years before the Constitutional Convention, and the values that sprang from those experiences, helps explain why the founders never seriously considered maintaining the Continental Army past the end of the War of Independence. The beliefs that grew organically from their experiences with the British also help explain Madison's passionate anti-military rhetoric (he would later refer to the establishment of a standing army under the new Constitution as a "calamity,"]

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…its not blundering into crises that destroy it

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

---

How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

---

With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

---

We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

---

I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

---

I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

---

Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

---

Not dodging any point. You simply can't compare an apple and an orange.

Britain exhausted itself fighting back to back mass world wars. We're exhausting ourselves on entitlement spending and an apathetic work force. Ironically, one thing we actually do well is fight wars (whether you believe worthy or not).

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

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How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

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Not as dangerous if you are the lone hyper power military/economic giant on earth.

Goat herders vs U.S. marines will billions in tech was always going to be a one sided casualty event.

But to the thousands of dead Americans and their families it's still bad.

(And the 1 million dead Iraqis and millions displaced)

Not to mention in most cases the world policing has just not worked well.

The one world policing duty the USA can do well….that costs little on lives…and that is of great help to the world is keeping the ocean shipping lanes open.

That is world policing we do well and that benefits everyone

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The objective is to become the hyper power..

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Leaving aside I'm not sure how that fits into the Founders ideals of being a free Republic with limited government….

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -Madison

The big problem is not getting there…it's not blundering into crises that destroy it

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Madison was speaking at a time where fighting for freedom was a nascent ideal. Most wars of the era were for Monarchical power.

And I agree that the key is to not blunder it away.

ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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KaiBear said:

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Inaccurate

The US played 'policeman' in the Philippines, Cuba, China, and throughout Central America prior to WW2.

We have spent trillions of dollars and almost a million lives since 1917.

Meanwhile other countries throughout the world magically avoid the excitement of a 9-11 attack.

Strange how that happens when you focus on your own affairs.

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How many U.S. lives military and otherwise have been lost in the last 50 years? Then compare that to every 50 year increment prior to that. It would appear that modern day "war mongering" or "world policing" isn't really as dangerous as you seem to draw it out as.

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With respect …..

There are dozens of countries throughout the world who never needed to sacrifice thousands of lives and trillions of dollars for the minimal results we have experienced since 1900.

Our foreign policy has been a continual disaster and the worst is yet to come under a Harris administration.

Clueless as Trump is in many areas, his foreign policy instincts are better than most.

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We are a global economic and military powerhouse by a huge multiple compared to 1900..

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I wonder what lessons we can learn from another global military super power that went bankrupt after getting involved in two horrifying world wars…leading to the collapse of its empire

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I think the direct rule colonial empires deserve to be on the scrap heap of history. I know you guys like to beat up on globalism, but one of the outcomes of the collapse of colonialism is more sovereign participation in the world economy, and the intertwined self interests that help thwart mass conflict and encourage alignment. It's not perfect, but has merits.

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Dodging the point

In 1900 there was a great military power on the planet.

Though foolish and costly wars it went bankrupt and lost its power

Today in 2024 there is a great military power on the planet….its also trillions in debt and with a ruling class that seems addicted to costly and foolish military conflicts

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Not dodging any point. You simply can't compare an apple and an orange.

Britain exhausted itself fighting back to back mass world wars. We're exhausting ourselves on entitlement spending and an apathetic work force..

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So not so apple and orange after all

Both "empires"/hyper powers…both going broke via bad leadership and decisions