Minneapolis ICE shooting

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FLBear5630
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In reply to ShooterTX • 8:25a
ShooterTX said:
C. Jordan said:
Sam Lowry said:
ShooterTX said:
The theory is that the SIG discharged while it was being removed, and the cop thought it was fired by the criminal, so he shot back.
It makes a lot of sense.

Except that Pretti was immobilized, with both palms on the pavement, and the officer who drew his gun had just watched another officer disarm him.

There is some doubt about whether the first officer who shot saw the weapon being removed. However, there is no doubt he could clearly see that Pretti was subdued with his hands nowhere near his weapon. It seems he panicked. He had just turned from beating up the woman whom Pretti had tried to protect, so he really didn't know what was going on.

Then, other officers pumped at least six more rounds in him while he was prone on the ground, motionless.

He died with his cell phone and his glasses in his hands.

Best video breakdown I've seen:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010668660/new-video-analysis-reveals-flawed-and-fatal-decisions-in-shooting-of-pretti.html?smid=url-share

For many years to come, this will be a teaching tool of how poorly trained officers can screw up with deadly results.


It would be far more effective for this to be a teaching tool of just how stupid & dangerous it is to confront & fight with cops while carrying a gun.

Play stupid games, win stupid rewards.


Huh, would have taken you for a 2A NRA guy... They disagree, as do I. Carrying is not a crime and should not be a death sentence. His Sig was holstered and licensed. He did not draw it, he was video taping with his phone.

If carrying is now probable cause to use deadly force, a lot of people are going to be shot.
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Harrison Bergeron
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In reply to ShooterTX • 8:34a
ShooterTX said:
C. Jordan said:
Sam Lowry said:
ShooterTX said:
The theory is that the SIG discharged while it was being removed, and the cop thought it was fired by the criminal, so he shot back.
It makes a lot of sense.

Except that Pretti was immobilized, with both palms on the pavement, and the officer who drew his gun had just watched another officer disarm him.

There is some doubt about whether the first officer who shot saw the weapon being removed. However, there is no doubt he could clearly see that Pretti was subdued with his hands nowhere near his weapon. It seems he panicked. He had just turned from beating up the woman whom Pretti had tried to protect, so he really didn't know what was going on.

Then, other officers pumped at least six more rounds in him while he was prone on the ground, motionless.

He died with his cell phone and his glasses in his hands.

Best video breakdown I've seen:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010668660/new-video-analysis-reveals-flawed-and-fatal-decisions-in-shooting-of-pretti.html?smid=url-share

For many years to come, this will be a teaching tool of how poorly trained officers can screw up with deadly results.


It would be far more effective for this to be a teaching tool of just how stupid & dangerous it is to confront & fight with cops while carrying a gun.

Play stupid games, win stupid rewards.

Philosophically, that's the ultimate problem with the black & white, us vs. them, good & evil thinking so often deployed by the left. The immediate and frequent jump to absolutes is not helpful. I mean look at the idiot that responded to you - rather than responding he just reposts the same stupid Talking Point he saw online and has been posting for days. Shows you how there is not intellectual curiosity and just and effort to make it a game of support my tribe at all costs.

You will never see me comment on the specifics but 1) no single piece of evidence can capture the reality of the situation; 2) the law around these situations are complex; 3) only a full investigation - not a single video - an really capture the complexity; 4) everyone sees in these videos what they want to see.

Regardless, complicated situations really require nuanced, thoughtful response:
1. In a perfect world, no person would ever be killed by police
2. In the real world, they do
3. Sometimes, law enforcement officers make really bad decisions
4. Sometimes, people make really bad decisions
5. Sometimes, a combination of factors cause a tragedy

At the end of the day, often a little bit of all of the above is most likely in most cases.
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ShooterTX
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:09a
FLBear5630 said:
ShooterTX said:
C. Jordan said:
Sam Lowry said:
ShooterTX said:
The theory is that the SIG discharged while it was being removed, and the cop thought it was fired by the criminal, so he shot back.
It makes a lot of sense.

Except that Pretti was immobilized, with both palms on the pavement, and the officer who drew his gun had just watched another officer disarm him.

There is some doubt about whether the first officer who shot saw the weapon being removed. However, there is no doubt he could clearly see that Pretti was subdued with his hands nowhere near his weapon. It seems he panicked. He had just turned from beating up the woman whom Pretti had tried to protect, so he really didn't know what was going on.

Then, other officers pumped at least six more rounds in him while he was prone on the ground, motionless.

He died with his cell phone and his glasses in his hands.

Best video breakdown I've seen:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010668660/new-video-analysis-reveals-flawed-and-fatal-decisions-in-shooting-of-pretti.html?smid=url-share

For many years to come, this will be a teaching tool of how poorly trained officers can screw up with deadly results.


It would be far more effective for this to be a teaching tool of just how stupid & dangerous it is to confront & fight with cops while carrying a gun.

Play stupid games, win stupid rewards.


Huh, would have taken you for a 2A NRA guy... They disagree, as do I. Carrying is not a crime and should not be a death sentence. His Sig was holstered and licensed. He did not draw it, he was video taping with his phone.

If carrying is now probable cause to use deadly force, a lot of people are going to be shot.


Carrying is not probable cause, and no one has ever said so.
Carrying a gun while obstructing officers, and then resisting arrest.... that's just stupid & dangerous.
He was not there to just film, he was there to stop officers from performing their duty and to aid the criminals who were trying to evade arrest.

It is a very false narrative to say he was just an observer. He was part of the organized group who were trying to stop ICE from arresting illegals.

The idea that he was shot because he was peacefully carrying a weapon is just insane.

If you're going to be confronting officers, you should know that carrying a gun is VASTLY increasing your chances of death instead of arrest.

Why the hell was he carrying a gun? The only people out there were cops, illegals and anti-ICE operatives. Since he was one of the anti-ICE folks, then he was either concerned about the illegals or the ICE officers. If he was concerned about the illegals, then he should be supporting ICE. If he was carrying to protect himself from ICE officers.... then it went down exactly as it did.
ShooterTX
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D. C. Bear
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:13a
FLBear5630 said:
ShooterTX said:
C. Jordan said:
Sam Lowry said:
ShooterTX said:
The theory is that the SIG discharged while it was being removed, and the cop thought it was fired by the criminal, so he shot back.
It makes a lot of sense.

Except that Pretti was immobilized, with both palms on the pavement, and the officer who drew his gun had just watched another officer disarm him.

There is some doubt about whether the first officer who shot saw the weapon being removed. However, there is no doubt he could clearly see that Pretti was subdued with his hands nowhere near his weapon. It seems he panicked. He had just turned from beating up the woman whom Pretti had tried to protect, so he really didn't know what was going on.

Then, other officers pumped at least six more rounds in him while he was prone on the ground, motionless.

He died with his cell phone and his glasses in his hands.

Best video breakdown I've seen:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010668660/new-video-analysis-reveals-flawed-and-fatal-decisions-in-shooting-of-pretti.html?smid=url-share

For many years to come, this will be a teaching tool of how poorly trained officers can screw up with deadly results.


It would be far more effective for this to be a teaching tool of just how stupid & dangerous it is to confront & fight with cops while carrying a gun.

Play stupid games, win stupid rewards.


Huh, would have taken you for a 2A NRA guy... They disagree, as do I. Carrying is not a crime and should not be a death sentence. His Sig was holstered and licensed. He did not draw it, he was video taping with his phone.

If carrying is now probable cause to use deadly force, a lot of people are going to be shot.


Two things can be true at the same time. You can have a legal right to carry a weapon and carrying a weapon and confronting law enforcement officers in a very chaotic situation can increase the odds of a very, very bad outcome.

If you see someone close to an intersection at 60 m.p.h but you have a green light, you don't pull out in front of them even though the light is green. The accident won't be your "fault" but you will be the dead or seriously injured.
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Robert Wilson
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In reply to Harrison Bergeron • 9:15a
Harrison Bergeron said:
You will never see me comment on the specifics but 1) no single piece of evidence can capture the reality of the situation; 2) the law around these situations are complex; 3) only a full investigation - not a single video - an really capture the complexity; 4) everyone sees in these videos what they want to see.

Regardless, complicated situations really require nuanced, thoughtful response:
1. In a perfect world, no person would ever be killed by police
2. In the real world, they do
3. Sometimes, law enforcement officers make really bad decisions
4. Sometimes, people make really bad decisions
5. Sometimes, a combination of factors cause a tragedy

At the end of the day, often a little bit of all of the above is most likely in most cases.

Well said.

People see a video and think they can totally dissect a complex / dynamic situation. Newsflash: you can't. "I trust what I see." Well, you shouldn't - at least not nearly so much. People are wrong about what they see and the interpretation of what they see ALL THE TIME, despite being 100% convinced of it. In almost all of these situations, I'm willing to bet each party fkd up a little and left an opportunity to avoid this outcome on the table. Portioning out blame is way more difficult than people like to think that it is.

So ... what does any sane person tell those he loves about this? Say your kids? Probably something like ... yeah don't show up at police actions at all - much less armed and agitated / filming / making noise. Bad **** can happen even if no one intends it. Go to work. Get a hobby. Find a girl. Build a boat. Read a book. Get a side hustle. Whatever. But don't go stick your nose into law enforcement that has nothing to do with you.
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KaiBear
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9:15a
D C for the win.

Post of the Month

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ScottS
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 9:34a
Sam Lowry said:
Jessica Hauser

I was Alex Pretti's final nursing student. He was my friend and my nursing mentor. For the past four months, I stood shoulder to shoulder with him during my capstone preceptorship at the Minneapolis VA Hospital. There he trained me to care for the sickest of the sick as an ICU nurse. He taught me how to care for arterial and central lines, the intricacies of managing multiple IVs filled with lifesaving solutions, and how to watch over every heartbeat, every breath, and every flicker of life, ready to act the moment they wavered. Techniques intended to heal.

Alex carried patience, compassion and calm as a steady light within him. Even at the very end, that light was there. I recognized his familiar stillness and signature calm composure shining through during those unbearable final moments captured on camera.

It does not surprise me that his final words were, "Are you okay?" Caring for people was at the core of who he was. He was incapable of causing harm. He lived a life of healing, and he lived it well.

Alex believed strongly in the Second Amendment and in the rights rooted in our Constitution and its amendments. He spoke out for justice and peace whenever he could, not only out of obligation, but out of a belief that we are more connected than divided, and that communication would bring us together.

I want his family to know his legacy lives on. I am a better nurse because of the wisdom and skills he instilled in me. I carry his light with me into every room, letting it guide and steady my hands as I heal and care for those in need.

Please honor my friend by standing up for peace, preferably with a cup of black coffee in hand and a couple of pieces of candy in your pocket, just as he would. He would remind you that caring for others is hard work, and we must do whatever it takes to get through the long shifts. Step outside with your dog, breathe in the world, hike or bike as he loved to do, and let yourself find peace in the quiet moments within nature. Stand up for justice and speak with those whose views differ from your own. Hold your beliefs with strength, but always extend love outward, even in the face of adversity.

Take one step, no matter how small, to help heal our world. Through these acts, carry his light forward in his name. Let his legacy continue to heal.

Is that step to stand up for open borders?
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boognish_bear
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11:37a
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Oldbear83
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 11:41a
" If carrying is now probable cause to use deadly force, a lot of people are going to be shot."

Yet again a dishonest attempt to ignore the context of the situation.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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Robert Wilson
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:00p
boognish_bear said:

This is extremely reasonable - basically make a guest worker program for those here illegally but with no criminal record, have jobs, etc. Put a withholding tax on their income. Deport immediately upon any criminal activity.

My only issue is with their kids being citizens, but hell we already have that problem. Also, interestingly, Democrats can't count on these Hispanic voters. Dems will run them off over time with trans issues or other similar nonsense. The Catholicism / familial culture helps quite a bit there over time.
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