President Trump announces military strikes on Iran: Operation Epic Fury

61,734 Views | 1531 Replies | Last: 7 min ago by KaiBear
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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Forest Bueller III said:

D. C. Bear said:

Forest Bueller III said:

FLBear5630 said:

Forest Bueller III said:

muddybrazos said:



As a citizen of the Lowcountry here in SC I have a message for Lady G. You can jump your queer ass off the Ravenel bridge. Its really easy for a childless homesexual to volunteer others kids to die for your continued paychecks.

This dude Graham is insane.

He is the definition of a punk ass.

Volunteer your own ass into harm's way Lindsay.


I agree he is dangerous. He did put his ass in harms way for 33 years. So as crazy as he is, that is one area he walked the walk.

He has never been in a combat zone. Ever.

He is volunteering others children to be in a combat zone when he himself never has been.


Should only people who have been in combat themselves, be eligible to vote on other people going into combat?

It would be the best of course. People who have seen front line action know things nobody else can know. Should they be the only ones. They should. But, I realize that is not how this works. I will note as my dad and other guys that were on the front lines of battle, they do not advocate getting involved in avoidable wars.

All that said, who gets to "vote" for going into war. We all get to vote. I feel you have worded this wrongly.

You should have said who gets to decide that we go into on the ground combat zones. I would certainly hope those making the final decisions to place America's in harms way with ground combat have had the experience of ground combat themselves,



You are assuming all people are reasonable and see war as a horror show. That is not always the case.
Osodecentx
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Does Rogan now speak for Trump supporters?

Joe Rogan Says Trump's Supporters Feel 'Betrayed' by Iran War
The influential podcast host described the conflict as a sharp reversal from the policies the president had campaigned on.
Mitch Blood Green
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Osodecentx said:

Does Rogan now speak for Trump supporters?

Joe Rogan Says Trump's Supporters Feel 'Betrayed' by Iran War
The influential podcast host described the conflict as a sharp reversal from the policies the president had campaigned on.


There are times it feels like Rogan just read a book we all read 30 years ago.

Did you know the Civil War was between the Notth and South?
boognish_bear
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Osodecentx said:

Does Rogan now speak for Trump supporters?

Joe Rogan Says Trump's Supporters Feel 'Betrayed' by Iran War
The influential podcast host described the conflict as a sharp reversal from the policies the president had campaigned on.


For better or worse… His voice carries a lot of weight with voters in the political sphere.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Odds the US already knows the location of these tunnels?

Osodecentx
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Osodecentx said:

Does Rogan now speak for Trump supporters?

Joe Rogan Says Trump's Supporters Feel 'Betrayed' by Iran War
The influential podcast host described the conflict as a sharp reversal from the policies the president had campaigned on.


There are times it feels like Rogan just read a book we all read 30 years ago.

Did you know the Civil War was between the Notth and South?

I'll be damned!!
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Guy Noir
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KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

Forest Bueller III said:

muddybrazos said:



As a citizen of the Lowcountry here in SC I have a message for Lady G. You can jump your queer ass off the Ravenel bridge. Its really easy for a childless homesexual to volunteer others kids to die for your continued paychecks.

This dude Graham is insane.

He is the definition of a punk ass.

Volunteer your own ass into harm's way Lindsay.


I agree he is dangerous. He did put his ass in harms way for 33 years. So as crazy as he is, that is one area he walked the walk.

He was JAG and was stationed in Germany. Was he in harms way in a court in peace time Germany? Gimme a f'n break. He also is on record admitting he never deployed. In 1998, the Capitol Hill daily newspaper The Hill contended that Graham was describing himself on his website as an Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran. Graham responded: "I have not told anybody I'm a combatant. I'm not a war hero, and never said I was. ... If I have lied about my military record, I'm not fit to serve in Congress", further noting that he "never deployed".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-20][20][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-21][21][/url]


To be fair, anyone who signs up for our military is putting him or herself in harms way. Still, that doesn't mean that he has any higher credibility than anyone else speaking on issues of war.

With respect...I disagree.

There is a huge difference between the guys on the front lines risking their precious ass and the glorified paper pushers in the rear. In a perfect world only those who have seen the burning corpses should be pushing for war.

The horrors of sudden death are too easily sanitized by the time the casket arrives at Dover Air Force Base.

Bush was the last president to see combat. That is very unfortunate.


You might not end up in combat and you may never suffer anything greater than a paper cut, but when you sign up, you are (potentially) putting yourself in harms way, whether it be a terrorist attack on a military base or an unforeseen military disaster that puts you in a combat role.

Understand your perspective.

But if one has not experienced the horror......one is more likely to be thrilled playing Rambo.

And senator Graham is a classic example.

My growing concern is that TRUMP has now caught the Rambo bug.






I think Trump caught the "Oh crap, they're about to have a nuclear bomb" bug.

Realistically, the only way to keep the Islamic regime in Iran from getting nuclear weapons and, eventually, the means to deliver it to American cities is for them to no longer run a nation state. I know Trump says it's not about regime change, but regime change is the only solution to the problem and it has been the only solution for the problem for many, many years.

Angry we have lost so many people over the years protecting Israel. If we were not killing Muslims on their behalf......the US would not be a target for nuclear warheads from Iran.

Or at least no more of a target than we already are from Russia, Which has continually had at least 2 'boomer' subs off the east coast of the US for over 25 years. Each sub contains at least 20 hydrogen bombs. Amazing that 95% of the American people are totally unaware of it. Guess no president wants to create still another media storm.

However now that we are in this.....regime change in Iran is the only way to 'win'. And that is going to take months,,,not days.

And even then we are going to have to start carpet bombing Iranian oil facilites and ground troops.



Did you hear about the 9/11 attack in the US World Trade Center? or the Pentagon? Did you hear about the takeover of the US Embassy during the Iranian Revolution (1979)? At that time the US had a positive relationship with Iran. I have a difficult time believing your statement that the US would not be a target for a Nuclear Bomb.
boognish_bear
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BearFan33
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boognish_bear said:



I have talked to some Israeli officials and read a good deal of Israeli media. Here is how the war in Iran is perceived there so far:

1) On a tactical level, they believe it has gone very well and Israel has destroyed more of the Iranian military capability than expected.
2) They are disappointed that the regime has not been weakened as much as expected and that they remain in firm control. In particular the lack of a "rise up" among the population is a cause of concern.
3) They are finding Trump to be unreliable. While Israel favors a prolonged campaign to ensure total dismantlement of threats, Trump has signaled a desire to end the war "soon," creating a potential rift in war aims.
4) Hezbollah is stronger than expected. It has hit Israel with drones and missiles and killed soldiers. They have recovered better than expected.
5) The inability of Ben-Gurion airport to withstand closing and chaos has shown fragility in Israeli social cohesion.
6) They are disappointed in the lack of support from Gulf States who want an end to the war rather than the escalation Israel wants.
7) Israel accepts that the regime in Tehran will survive and just hopes that this weakens them in preparation for the next round.
8) There is a growing fear among Israeli strategists that they are winning the war but losing the region. While military targets are being obliterated, the civilian infrastructure damage is causing a backlash.
9) The war is proving very expensive. The need to divert NIS 28 billion ($9 billion) to the military has forced the government to freeze social projects, leading to the first significant anti-government protests since the war began, specifically from the middle class bearing the tax burden.
10) They are aware that the war is very unpopular in the US and that Israel is being blamed. They are concerned about the ramifications for the alliance.

I know not in the US main objectives but regime change would be nice.

The lack of a rise up is a concern. Maybe the Kurds can press them from the West.
william
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Guy Noir said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

Forest Bueller III said:

muddybrazos said:



As a citiz..............


















However now that we are in this.....regime change in Iran is the only way to 'win'. And that is going to take months,,,not days.

And even then we are going to have to start carpet bombing Iranian oil facilites and ground troops.



Did you hear about the 9/11 attack in the US World Trade Center? or the Pentagon? Did you hear about the takeover of the US Embassy during the Iranian Revolution (1979)? At that time the US had a positive relationship with Iran. I have a difficult time believing your statement that the US would not be a target for a Nuclear Bomb.

pyrethrin talk.......

- UF

D!

{ sipping cola }

{ eating wendy's combo }

Go Bears!!
pro ecclesia, pro javelina
Oldbear83
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Good post. My thoughts are as follows:

1) Nation-building is a daydream. Especially in the Middle East. Changing a regime actually depends on making friends with neighboring countries' leaders, and bring change through influence of the citizens there.

2) Iran is a crucial geographic location in the Middle East. The Soviets wanted very badly to damage US influence in the Middle East, and were linked to Khomeini's movement to topple the Shah. if a US-friendly Iran were to come to power, the entire region would pivot. That would damage the relative power of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and a number of other powers who naturally would resist that pivot.

3) Trump's foreign policy and military preferences were made obvious in his first term. Trump prefers to make strikes which send signals, rather than commit troops which risks costs with little to no benefits. The problem is that anyone paying attention can see this, and understand that boots on the ground are not really on the table as an option. Trump tries economic actions first, then escalates to targeted strikes.

4) Israel is a valuable US ally in the Middle East, but should not be allowed to gain primacy in the region, which it has tried to claim since 2001. This requires diplomacy but also candor.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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Oldbear83 said:

Good post. My thoughts are as follows:

1) Nation-building is a daydream. Especially in the Middle East. Changing a regime actually depends on making friends with neighboring countries' leaders, and bring change through influence of the citizens there.

2) Iran is a crucial geographic location in the Middle East. The Soviets wanted very badly to damage US influence in the Middle East, and were linked to Khomeini's movement to topple the Shah. if a US-friendly Iran were to come to power, the entire region would pivot. That would damage the relative power of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and a number of other powers who naturally would resist that pivot.

3) Trump's foreign policy and military preferences were made obvious in his first term. Trump prefers to make strikes which send signals, rather than commit troops which risks costs with little to no benefits. The problem is that anyone paying attention can see this, and understand that boots on the ground are not really on the table as an option. Trump tries economic actions first, then escalates to targeted strikes.

4) Israel is a valuable US ally in the Middle East, but should not be allowed to gain primacy in the region, which it has tried to claim since 2001. This requires diplomacy but also candor.



5) Russia and China are playing the same game in Iran that we played in Ukraine, use a proxy to bleed an opponent dry.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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KaiBear
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boognish_bear said:




If even one lone wolf kills a handful of Americans this video will get tons of air time.

Beyond stupid.
EatMoreSalmon
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boognish_bear said:




Sounds low. Maybe we haven't used as many munitions and flown as many sorties as it sounds like.
Wangchung
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EatMoreSalmon said:

boognish_bear said:




Sounds low. Maybe we haven't used as many munitions and flown as many sorties as it sounds like.
I like how they added the decimal point and cents to make the number look larger than the average Somalian run state's fraud...
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

ATL Bear
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KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

Forest Bueller III said:

muddybrazos said:



As a citizen of the Lowcountry here in SC I have a message for Lady G. You can jump your queer ass off the Ravenel bridge. Its really easy for a childless homesexual to volunteer others kids to die for your continued paychecks.

This dude Graham is insane.

He is the definition of a punk ass.

Volunteer your own ass into harm's way Lindsay.


I agree he is dangerous. He did put his ass in harms way for 33 years. So as crazy as he is, that is one area he walked the walk.

He was JAG and was stationed in Germany. Was he in harms way in a court in peace time Germany? Gimme a f'n break. He also is on record admitting he never deployed. In 1998, the Capitol Hill daily newspaper The Hill contended that Graham was describing himself on his website as an Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran. Graham responded: "I have not told anybody I'm a combatant. I'm not a war hero, and never said I was. ... If I have lied about my military record, I'm not fit to serve in Congress", further noting that he "never deployed".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-20][20][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-21][21][/url]


To be fair, anyone who signs up for our military is putting him or herself in harms way. Still, that doesn't mean that he has any higher credibility than anyone else speaking on issues of war.

With respect...I disagree.

There is a huge difference between the guys on the front lines risking their precious ass and the glorified paper pushers in the rear. In a perfect world only those who have seen the burning corpses should be pushing for war.

The horrors of sudden death are too easily sanitized by the time the casket arrives at Dover Air Force Base.

Bush was the last president to see combat. That is very unfortunate.


You might not end up in combat and you may never suffer anything greater than a paper cut, but when you sign up, you are (potentially) putting yourself in harms way, whether it be a terrorist attack on a military base or an unforeseen military disaster that puts you in a combat role.

Understand your perspective.

But if one has not experienced the horror......one is more likely to be thrilled playing Rambo.

And senator Graham is a classic example.

My growing concern is that TRUMP has now caught the Rambo bug.




One need not serve, or serve in a forward military position to see and/or experience the horrors of war.
Bestweekeverr
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boognish_bear said:




Reeks of desperation
Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear said:




If they play that game they will not end up with regime change…they will end up with map change

Geographic erasure of the entity previously known as Iran. (or at the least some big geographic reduction)

Gulf Arab states, Israel, nuclear armed France, USA, and everyone else would be coming down on them at once. (China in desperate need of cheap energy would sit back and do nothing to help them)

Ask old Prussia how it works out going hog wild against multiple well armed and economically powerful opponents all at once…Iraq, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan might be getting bigger soon. A independent Kurdistan might be getting established on the former territory of the country once known as Iran
FLBear5630
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ATL Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

KaiBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

Forest Bueller III said:

muddybrazos said:



As a citizen of the Lowcountry here in SC I have a message for Lady G. You can jump your queer ass off the Ravenel bridge. Its really easy for a childless homesexual to volunteer others kids to die for your continued paychecks.

This dude Graham is insane.

He is the definition of a punk ass.

Volunteer your own ass into harm's way Lindsay.


I agree he is dangerous. He did put his ass in harms way for 33 years. So as crazy as he is, that is one area he walked the walk.

He was JAG and was stationed in Germany. Was he in harms way in a court in peace time Germany? Gimme a f'n break. He also is on record admitting he never deployed. In 1998, the Capitol Hill daily newspaper The Hill contended that Graham was describing himself on his website as an Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran. Graham responded: "I have not told anybody I'm a combatant. I'm not a war hero, and never said I was. ... If I have lied about my military record, I'm not fit to serve in Congress", further noting that he "never deployed".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-20][20][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham#cite_note-21][21][/url]


To be fair, anyone who signs up for our military is putting him or herself in harms way. Still, that doesn't mean that he has any higher credibility than anyone else speaking on issues of war.

With respect...I disagree.

There is a huge difference between the guys on the front lines risking their precious ass and the glorified paper pushers in the rear. In a perfect world only those who have seen the burning corpses should be pushing for war.

The horrors of sudden death are too easily sanitized by the time the casket arrives at Dover Air Force Base.

Bush was the last president to see combat. That is very unfortunate.


You might not end up in combat and you may never suffer anything greater than a paper cut, but when you sign up, you are (potentially) putting yourself in harms way, whether it be a terrorist attack on a military base or an unforeseen military disaster that puts you in a combat role.

Understand your perspective.

But if one has not experienced the horror......one is more likely to be thrilled playing Rambo.

And senator Graham is a classic example.

My growing concern is that TRUMP has now caught the Rambo bug.




One need not serve, or serve in a forward military position to see and/or experience the horrors of war.


True. Anyone who saw Highway 80 or the oil fires wouldn't wish war on anyone.
Redbrickbear
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FLBear5630 said:

Oldbear83 said:

Good post. My thoughts are as follows:

1) Nation-building is a daydream. Especially in the Middle East. Changing a regime actually depends on making friends with neighboring countries' leaders, and bring change through influence of the citizens there.

2) Iran is a crucial geographic location in the Middle East. The Soviets wanted very badly to damage US influence in the Middle East, and were linked to Khomeini's movement to topple the Shah. if a US-friendly Iran were to come to power, the entire region would pivot. That would damage the relative power of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and a number of other powers who naturally would resist that pivot.

3) Trump's foreign policy and military preferences were made obvious in his first term. Trump prefers to make strikes which send signals, rather than commit troops which risks costs with little to no benefits. The problem is that anyone paying attention can see this, and understand that boots on the ground are not really on the table as an option. Trump tries economic actions first, then escalates to targeted strikes.

4) Israel is a valuable US ally in the Middle East, but should not be allowed to gain primacy in the region, which it has tried to claim since 2001. This requires diplomacy but also candor.



5) Russia and China are playing the same game in Iran that we played in Ukraine, use a proxy to bleed an opponent dry.


Well then they are playing it very badly

The USA is not losing 9,000 men killed or wounded each and every single month so about 90,000k-100,000 a year.
Nor are we losing half our over all military assets.

That was Russia in Ukraine.

Right now Iran is using their elite Republican guard army bases, naval ships, and leaders heads to absorb Israeli & American missiles….

Not exactly a great strategy for success

All that's gonna do in the end is revitalize American military production in the Rust Belt

Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan blue collar workers say thanks for the over time pay and new career opportunities.
Sam Lowry
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Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




If they play that game they will not end up with regime change…they will end up with map change

Geographic erasure of the entity previously known as Iran. (or at the least some big geographic reduction)

Gulf Arab states, Israel, nuclear armed France, USA, and everyone else would be coming down on them at once. (China in desperate need of cheap energy would sit back and do nothing to help them)

Ask old Prussia how it works out going hog wild against multiple well armed and economically powerful opponents all at once…Iraq, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan might be getting bigger soon. A independent Kurdistan might be getting established on the former territory of the country once known as Iran

Maybe...but there's also something that the neocons probably failed to consider. What if their claims that Iran is weeks away from a nuclear weapon turn out to be true?
boognish_bear
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FLBear5630
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Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Oldbear83 said:

Good post. My thoughts are as follows:

1) Nation-building is a daydream. Especially in the Middle East. Changing a regime actually depends on making friends with neighboring countries' leaders, and bring change through influence of the citizens there.

2) Iran is a crucial geographic location in the Middle East. The Soviets wanted very badly to damage US influence in the Middle East, and were linked to Khomeini's movement to topple the Shah. if a US-friendly Iran were to come to power, the entire region would pivot. That would damage the relative power of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and a number of other powers who naturally would resist that pivot.

3) Trump's foreign policy and military preferences were made obvious in his first term. Trump prefers to make strikes which send signals, rather than commit troops which risks costs with little to no benefits. The problem is that anyone paying attention can see this, and understand that boots on the ground are not really on the table as an option. Trump tries economic actions first, then escalates to targeted strikes.

4) Israel is a valuable US ally in the Middle East, but should not be allowed to gain primacy in the region, which it has tried to claim since 2001. This requires diplomacy but also candor.



5) Russia and China are playing the same game in Iran that we played in Ukraine, use a proxy to bleed an opponent dry.


Well then they are playing it very badly

The USA is not losing 9,000 men killed or wounded each and every single month so about 90,000k-100,000 a year.
Nor are we losing half our over all military assets.

That was Russia in Ukraine.

Right now Iran is using their elite Republican guard army bases, naval ships, and leaders heads to absorb Israeli & American missiles….

Not exactly a great strategy for success

All that's gonna do in the end is revitalize American military production in the Rust Belt

Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan blue collar workers say thanks for the over time pay and new career opportunities.



You really think the population will put up with this long enough to revitalize the rust belt? We are 11 days in and there is already pressure to end it. There are different ways to drain. Manpower? We are at 7 and it is in the news.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Realitybites
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Osodecentx said:

Does Rogan now speak for Trump supporters?

Joe Rogan Says Trump's Supporters Feel 'Betrayed' by Iran War
The influential podcast host described the conflict as a sharp reversal from the policies the president had campaigned on.

Joe Rogan speaks for more Trump supporters than Lindsey Graham, that's for certain.
Realitybites
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    Wednesday Night Update (You can get updates from X, RT, Al Jazeera, and Hindustan Times as our newsrooms shut down for the night)
  • Oil prices surge as two oil tankers are attacked and explode in Iraqi waters



  • 'Largest wave of missiles since hostilities began' launched into northern Israel by Hezbollah
  • The US Navy said it was 'too dangerous' to escort tankers through still.
  • President of Iran demands reparations and guarantees against future aggression.
  • Trump says the war with Iran will end soon, as there is 'practically nothing left to target."
  • Yet U.S. and Israeli officials plan at least two more weeks of strikes
 
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