cms186 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

No hate for my RC brothers in Christ, but their papacy is intent on selling the world out to the globalist Satanists.

Sticking his head in politics under the guise of a false peace religion, bending the knee to Islam in some ways, making up false doctrine about military use, attacking conservatives, ignoring the plight of the Iranian people, defending the mass illegal immigration and the harm it does to communities, etc. It's a One way ticket to heavily progressive societies, resulting in Godlessness.

I get the RC's will rush to nuance their way in defense of the man, but it rings hollow.

Last, Christ will here the prayers of the God fearing soldiers.

---

No need to bore anyone with nuance. Church doctrine on military use is true and just. The rationale for the war and the supposed concern for the Iranian people are simply false.

---

didnt you know, Trump and Hegseth, those fake Christians, know far more about Religion and Morality than the leader of the catholic Church

---

Sounds like a joke, but yeah...only in MAGA world.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Tell me the win move...

Seriously, what is the win move?

---

I don't know if it's one move, but here's what I believe will be the results once Trump is done:

• No nukes, full transparency
• Weakening Iran militarily
• Weaking Iran's terrorist proxies
• US has greater control in the region + strategic control of the waterways
• Reduce BRICS to a shell of its former self + a shift in global energy markets

---

Expect opposite results across the board, plus worldwide energy and economic crises blamed on the US.

I stumbled across something the other day wandering through a thrift store.

It's a small leatherbound book titled "My Mass", an officially recognized Roman Catholic publication with the Vatican's impramatur. Just a really high quality piece of work, from the binding, to the quality of the paper, to the hand drawn illustrations.

It walks you through the order of the Roman Catholic mass. But here's the catch: It was published in 1958. So it's not the order of the Novus Ordo mass instituted by Vatican 2 and supported by the Popes since then. Its the order of the much older Tridentine mass, something that more closely resembled our Orthodox LIturgy of Saint John Chrysostom. This was the liturgy used by the Latin Church from 1570 and published thereafter with amendments up to 1962. It's still a thousand years newer than our original Orthodox liturgy, but follows that form.

Top Changes Between the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo

It isn't till you see an artifact like this that the full force of Roman Catholic innovation comes into view.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

So the Vatican has dedicated a Muslim prayer room at the Vatican library.

So brave

---

Are you Protestants really going to try and play the "holier than thou" game? It appears you and many on this board have a clear disdain for the Church, that's very unfortunate. Its still Easter, I wish we could spend our time spreading the good news instead of trying to tear each other down

---

I don't have a disdain for Catholics, I believe the devout ones will end up in heaven alongside the devout protestants. I just don't believe the pope is someone that cannot be criticized.

dude in a dress out front tried to tell them...................

- el UF

{ sipping War }

{ eating War }

D!!!

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Tell me the win move...

Seriously, what is the win move?

---

I don't know if it's one move, but here's what I believe will be the results once Trump is done:

• No nukes, full transparency
• Weakening Iran militarily
• Weaking Iran's terrorist proxies
• US has greater control in the region + strategic control of the waterways
• Reduce BRICS to a shell of its former self + a shift in global energy markets

---

Expect opposite results across the board, plus worldwide energy and economic crises blamed on the US.

---

I mean you aren't necessarily wrong. It's up in the air at this point. Trump either finishes the job or he doesn't, the longer he drags on with peace talks, the more likely you are correct. Iranian military needed to be further demoralized and demolished awhile longer. Trump stopped too soon.

Sam Lowry said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

No hate for my RC brothers in Christ, but their papacy is intent on selling the world out to the globalist Satanists.

Sticking his head in politics under the guise of a false peace religion, bending the knee to Islam in some ways, making up false doctrine about military use, attacking conservatives, ignoring the plight of the Iranian people, defending the mass illegal immigration and the harm it does to communities, etc. It's a One way ticket to heavily progressive societies, resulting in Godlessness.

I get the RC's will rush to nuance their way in defense of the man, but it rings hollow.

Last, Christ will here the prayers of the God fearing soldiers.

---

No need to bore anyone with nuance. Church doctrine on military use is true and just. The rationale for the war and the supposed concern for the Iranian people are simply false.

---

didnt you know, Trump and Hegseth, those fake Christians, know far more about Religion and Morality than the leader of the catholic Church

---

Sounds like a joke, but yeah...only in MAGA world.

---

nah, no one believes those two know more. It's just clear to everyone that the pope intentionally misused scripture to make a misleading statement about Jesus not hearing prayers of people engaged in war. It's a ridiculous assertion not supported by church history or scripture studied in context.

Whoever said he can't be criticized? Do you know when the last time a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra? 1950's, the Ascension of Mary. That is it. Since 1950, there is nothing a Pope has said or done that is "beyond" scrutiny.

Criticize away.

That said, doesn't seem we or the Pope are able to criticize this President. He seems to speak Ex Cathedra daily...

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

No hate for my RC brothers in Christ, but their papacy is intent on selling the world out to the globalist Satanists.

Sticking his head in politics under the guise of a false peace religion, bending the knee to Islam in some ways, making up false doctrine about military use, attacking conservatives, ignoring the plight of the Iranian people, defending the mass illegal immigration and the harm it does to communities, etc. It's a One way ticket to heavily progressive societies, resulting in Godlessness.

I get the RC's will rush to nuance their way in defense of the man, but it rings hollow.

Last, Christ will here the prayers of the God fearing soldiers.

---

No need to bore anyone with nuance. Church doctrine on military use is true and just. The rationale for the war and the supposed concern for the Iranian people are simply false.

---

didnt you know, Trump and Hegseth, those fake Christians, know far more about Religion and Morality than the leader of the catholic Church

---

Sounds like a joke, but yeah...only in MAGA world.

---

nah, no one believes those two know more. It's just clear to everyone that the pope intentionally misused scripture to make a misleading statement about Jesus not hearing prayers of people engaged in war. It's a ridiculous assertion not supported by church history or scripture studied in context.

---

On the contrary:

One who turns his ear away from listening to the Law, Even his prayer is an abomination. (Proverbs 28:9)

So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. (Isaiah 1:15)

But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear. (Isaiah 59:2)

Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." (Matthew 26:52)

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Whoever said he can't be criticized? Do you know when the last time a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra? 1950's, the Ascension of Mary. That is it. Since 1950, there is nothing a Pope has said or done that is "beyond" scrutiny.

Criticize away.

That said, doesn't seem we or the Pope are able to criticize this President. He seems to speak Ex Cathedra daily...

---

Nah, you can criticize both. Trump's got lots of flaws. Trump is his own worst enemy.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Whoever said he can't be criticized? Do you know when the last time a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra? 1950's, the Ascension of Mary. That is it. Since 1950, there is nothing a Pope has said or done that is "beyond" scrutiny.

Criticize away.

That said, doesn't seem we or the Pope are able to criticize this President. He seems to speak Ex Cathedra daily...

---

Nah, you can criticize both. Trump's got lots of flaws. Trump is his own worst enemy.

---

We agree there.

I miss Trump from 2016...

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

---

You'd think the Popes would have learned that by now ...

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

---

You'd think the Popes would have learned that by now ...

---

They've seen more empires rise and fall than you have, by far.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

---

You'd think the Popes would have learned that by now ...

---

They've seen more empires rise and fall than you have, by far.

---

And caused unjust suffering more than many kings and emperors, come to that.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

---

You'd think the Popes would have learned that by now ...

---

They've seen more empires rise and fall than you have, by far.

---

And caused unjust suffering more than many kings and emperors, come to that.

---

The truth may hurt, but it's never unjust.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

No, I'm just saying that bad acts tend to bring bad consequences.

---

You'd think the Popes would have learned that by now ...

---

They've seen more empires rise and fall than you have, by far.

---

And caused unjust suffering more than many kings and emperors, come to that.

---

The truth may hurt, but it's never unjust.

---

We're talking about Popes, not truth.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

It was a generic comment. I really didn't mean it to either of your responses. Just some thing a Jesuit Priest and nun brought up to me as they were going down to the Bus Station to fight pimps over young girls getting off the buses. Made me think.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Whoever said he can't be criticized? Do you know when the last time a Pope spoke Ex Cathedra? 1950's, the Ascension of Mary. That is it. Since 1950, there is nothing a Pope has said or done that is "beyond" scrutiny.

Criticize away.

---

"More frequently, the Pope appeals to the deposit of faith by use of the ordinary Magisterium...Because these teachings have not been proposed or confirmed through a solemn definition, many mistakenly believe that such teachings can be revised. However, the Pope exercises the authentic Magisterium whenever he teaches on faith and morals. Whether the document contains infallible statements or not, the document as a whole carries this authority."

Canon 754. All Christ's faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which lawful ecclesiastical authority issues for the purpose of proposing doctrine or of proscribing erroneous opinions; this is particularly the case of those published by the Roman Pontiff.

For the record, I'm not Roman Catholic. I've simply come to the point where I'm at war with all forms of religious modernism be it baptism/fruit optional evangelicalism, pope optional Roman Catholicism, or Jesus optional leftist churchianity.

FLBear5630 said:

---

It was a generic comment. I really didn't mean it to either of your responses. Just some thing a Jesuit Priest and nun brought up to me as they were going down to the Bus Station to fight pimps over young girls getting off the buses. Made me think.

---

There is certainly a strong infernal effort to cause believers to fall away. And the danger is different for each believer and congregation.

Personally, I always liked the Jesuits, in part because they are well known for asking difficult questions which make higher-ups uncomfortable.

The Methodists which have not fallen away have something like that with the Stephen Ministers, but it's truly sad to see how many UMC congregations have fallen for lies which pull them away from Christ.

It's easy to go after the non-doctrinal mega-Churches or the flashy preachers who are all about themselves, really. But every congregation should be careful to make sure they are on course to where The Holy Spirit send them, not just look at the failings elsewhere and assume they have no weaknesses in their defenses.

Your last sentence is where I put my hopes....

The Holy Spirit sends us according to our skills. Very Jesuit...

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

The Pope imposed his personal opinion but tried to put God's label on it.

That's hubris no matter what you try to excuse it.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

The Pope imposed his personal opinion but tried to put God's label on it.

That's hubris no matter what you try to excuse it.

---

Hubris is dismissing the deep tradition of Christian teaching on just war as mere "personal opinion."