Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

The Pope imposed his personal opinion but tried to put God's label on it.

That's hubris no matter what you try to excuse it.

---

Hubris is dismissing the deep tradition of Christian teaching on just war as mere "personal opinion."

---

Not what the dictionary says. Not what Christ taught.

Of course, Christ also never taught us to worship Popes.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

The Pope imposed his personal opinion but tried to put God's label on it.

That's hubris no matter what you try to excuse it.

---

Actually if you look at the Gospel, not Paul you will see Jesus didnt justify violence. He who lives by the sword will perish by the sword.

Just war? Very Augustine...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

The Pope imposed his personal opinion but tried to put God's label on it.

That's hubris no matter what you try to excuse it.

---

Actually if you look at the Gospel, not Paul you will see Jesus didnt justify violence. He who lives by the sword will perish by the sword.

Just war? Very Augustine...

---

Already addressed:

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

Context matters.

How that is interpreted matters too.

Was he saying violence is ok? Or prepare for hard times and persecution? Most theologians say the later as he states not to fight later and that twi swords were enough.

FLBear5630 said:

---

How that is interpreted matters too.

Was he saying violence is ok? Or prepare for hard times and persecution? Most theologians say the later as he states not to fight later and that twi swords were enough.

---

Ecclesiastes covered that many years before.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

Nah, you are the one quoting out of context, you're just getting put in your place. Like the pope did. And rumor has it that Trump's favorability rating by Catholics increased when he called the pope out.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

You're growing a clown nose. Pope falsely claims that Jesus doesn't hear the prayers of soldiers and leaders at war.

Sam's defense - "The pope was just {insert whatever sounds good here}".

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

You're growing a clown nose. Pope falsely claims that Jesus doesn't hear the prayers of soldiers and leaders at war.

Sam's defense - "The pope was just {insert whatever sounds good here}".

---

It is certainly possible to miss the point if you try hard enough.

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

You're growing a clown nose. Pope falsely claims that Jesus doesn't hear the prayers of soldiers and leaders at war.

Sam's defense - "The pope was just {insert whatever sounds good here}".

---

It is certainly possible to miss the point if you try hard enough.

---

You would know, Sam.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

These folk believe the United States is the center of the Universe and anything that goes against its will is the Anti-Christ. They're narcissists, just like their President. The Church serves the entire world, and naturally the Pope calls out against war which displaces millions of Iranians.

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Not his personal opinion. It's the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching that condemn the lawless violence and blasphemous rhetoric of the warmongers.

---

Oh it certainly IS his personal opinion, wrapped up in human hubris .

The blasphemy is yanking God's name to glue it onto a human conceit.

---

Well, I expect we'll see what hubris means when the economic consequences of our actions begin to set in. It's the only language we seem to understand. I still prefer a good, cautionary sermon...even at the risk of being exposed to some poetic license.

---

So to you, if you are making money off something God must approve of it?

Don't recall any verses saying that.

---

Let's face it, very few follow what Jesus said. I am talking what Jesus said in the Gospels. If you want to see those following Jesus, go down to the local Workforce Development One Stop, those people making 25k a year trying to help people. Not the Executives, but those working with people. Go see the people working with the addicted homeless. They are following Jesus.

We ended up following Paul. I am just as guilty. How many times have we used Romans 13 to justify to ourselves...

Grace alone? Maybe to make us feel better about not really following Jesus? Same with the Catholics, Confession and works.

---

As I recall, Paul supported himself and his missions by repairing and sewing sails.

Sam was selling the idea that economic troubles means you have offended the Pope, and in his opinion, God.

Jesus Himself made a point that we should lay up treasure in Heaven, not obsess on earthly wealth, so it seems Sam has the problem with Jesus, not Paul.

---

Again, no. The pope is warning against actions that could lead to our downfall, not because they offend him but because of our own hubris.

---

You're growing a clown nose. Pope falsely claims that Jesus doesn't hear the prayers of soldiers and leaders at war.

Sam's defense - "The pope was just {insert whatever sounds good here}".

---

It is certainly possible to miss the point if you try hard enough.

---

Perhaps you shouldn't speak like that about Catholics.

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

Lol, did that happen recently?

But yes, Jesus hears the prayers of all kinds of people that waged war.. Some civilizations need to be destroyed. Those currently controlling Iran seem to be worthy of being destroyed.
But hey thankfully those murderers have bright minds like you and Sam to defend and protect them.
Hard to believe how ridiculous grown American men have become defending Iran. I hope the American military curb stomps them out of existence. Let's drop more Bombs than Obama did. It's time for the decent people of Iran to get their country back.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

These folk believe the United States is the center of the Universe and anything that goes against its will is the Anti-Christ. They're narcissists, just like their President. The Church serves the entire world, and naturally the Pope calls out against war which displaces millions of Iranians.

---

False.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

Lol, did that happen recently?

But yes, Jesus hears the prayers of all kinds of people that waged war.. Some civilizations need to be destroyed. Those currently controlling Iran seem to be worthy of being destroyed.
But hey thankfully those murderers have bright minds like you and Sam to defend and protect them.
Hard to believe how ridiculous grown American men have become defending Iran. I hope the American military curb stomps them out of existence. Let's drop more Bombs than Obama did. It's time for the decent people of Iran to get their country back.

---

Both of those things can't be true.

The decent people? You do realize that everyone with experience in Democracy left. It has been 3 generations since the Shah. Who there has any idea about anything but living in a Theocracy? Who is there that is not Moslem and puts secular believes ahead of Shia Law? You really believe there are enough there to do that or the people that have never lived in Iran or not since being kids are going back? After we carpet bomb it?

Who is overthrowing the 300k Republican Guard that has such strength left we will not invade because of casualties? You throw this stuff out; do you think of the logistics of what you are saying? Do you have any idea of what that comment means in real terms?

FLBear5630 said:

---

The decent people? You do realize that everyone with experience in Democracy left. It has been 3 generations since the Shah. Who there has any idea about anything but living in a Theocracy? Who is there that is not Moslem and puts secular believes ahead of Shia Law? You really believe there are enough there to do that or the people that have never lived in Iran or not since being kids are going back? After we carpet bomb it?

Who is overthrowing the 300k Republican Guard that has such strength left we will not invade because of casualties? You throw this stuff out; do you think of the logistics of what you are saying? Do you have any idea of what that comment means in real terms?

---

So your argument is that it's too late for Iran to be anything but an Islamic Theocracy.

Well, about 75 years passed between the Revolution which toppled the Czar and the end of the Soviet regime, so it seems there is time for the people of Iran to decide to throw out the garbage of Jihadism.

And from what I read, the Republican Guard has been targeted in a lot of attacks, so it seems reasonable that those numbers are down a bit.

No, I am saying bombing ain't enough. If you are truly talking about establishing a Democracy in the Western style. We are occupying, for 30 plus years.

We are becoming the Government and rebuilding the infrastructure. Even then, it is a crapshoot to get the Nation the decent people of Iran should have. Don't believe me, look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. We stayed in one and have weak, so-called Democracy. We left the other, Taliban is back.

Can you name one place that what you guys are saying will happen can happen with just bombing?? I don't know of any. Poland, but they had Pope JP2 and Lech Welsa. Got one?

I am saying more is going on than random bombing.

Stop, step back, take a breath.

These missions are planned and executed by skilled military professionals, not politicians.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I am saying more is going on than random bombing.

Stop, step back, take a breath.

These missions are planned and executed by skilled military professionals, not politicians.

---

That is where you are missing the point.

No one doubts the military and their ability to win. That is one part of this. If you do not occupy, you do not get to set up the next Government. You are relying on other inside, there is no one inside and we are not invading/occupying. You will end up with the same, like we saw in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq.

The military piece is the easy piece, as we have witnessed. We are at what 40 days? That is not the problem and this is something this Administration does routinely. They do not think it through to the end. Great at the initial step, because military is run by professionals, and then nothing...

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

Lol, did that happen recently?

But yes, Jesus hears the prayers of all kinds of people that waged war.. Some civilizations need to be destroyed. Those currently controlling Iran seem to be worthy of being destroyed.
But hey thankfully those murderers have bright minds like you and Sam to defend and protect them.
Hard to believe how ridiculous grown American men have become defending Iran. I hope the American military curb stomps them out of existence. Let's drop more Bombs than Obama did. It's time for the decent people of Iran to get their country back.

---

Both of those things can't be true.

---

Of course they can

FLBear5630 said:

---

The decent people? You do realize that everyone with experience in Democracy left. It has been 3 generations since the Shah. Who there has any idea about anything but living in a Theocracy? Who is there that is not Moslem and puts secular believes ahead of Shia Law? You really believe there are enough there to do that or the people that have never lived in Iran or not since being kids are going back? After we carpet bomb it?

Who is overthrowing the 300k Republican Guard that has such strength left we will not invade because of casualties? You throw this stuff out; do you think of the logistics of what you are saying? Do you have any idea of what that comment means in real terms?

---

Actually, I do think about it in real terms. I specified what would be ideal to counter your ridiculous post. I did not say it'd be worth the cost in American lives. I can wish the government was crushed absolutely and finally, but not endorse the action due to cost. But I have zero problem with stating that some civilizations need to be removed from the playing field. You struggle with that and take the side of the Iranian devils.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I am saying more is going on than random bombing.

Stop, step back, take a breath.

These missions are planned and executed by skilled military professionals, not politicians.

---

That is where you are missing the point.

No one doubts the military and their ability to win. That is one part of this. If you do not occupy, you do not get to set up the next Government. You are relying on other inside, there is no one inside and we are not invading/occupying. You will end up with the same, like we saw in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq.

The military piece is the easy piece, as we have witnessed. We are at what 40 days? That is not the problem and this is something this Administration does routinely. They do not think it through to the end. Great at the initial step, because military is run by professionals, and then nothing...

---

It's not necessarily hopeless and beyond the realm of possibility for a new Iran. Unlikely, sure.
So I will settle for a much diminished bad actor, one significantly weaker, and hopefully with greater transparency into their nuclear ambitions... and hopefully some form of US influence and incentives in the flow of oil.

Fair enough.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

Lol, did that happen recently?

But yes, Jesus hears the prayers of all kinds of people that waged war.. Some civilizations need to be destroyed. Those currently controlling Iran seem to be worthy of being destroyed.
But hey thankfully those murderers have bright minds like you and Sam to defend and protect them.
Hard to believe how ridiculous grown American men have become defending Iran. I hope the American military curb stomps them out of existence. Let's drop more Bombs than Obama did. It's time for the decent people of Iran to get their country back.

---

Both of those things can't be true.

---

Of course they can

---

So which do you want to do first, destroy it or give it back to them?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I am saying more is going on than random bombing.

Stop, step back, take a breath.

These missions are planned and executed by skilled military professionals, not politicians.

---

That is where you are missing the point.

No one doubts the military and their ability to win. That is one part of this. If you do not occupy, you do not get to set up the next Government. You are relying on other inside, there is no one inside and we are not invading/occupying. You will end up with the same, like we saw in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq.

The military piece is the easy piece, as we have witnessed. We are at what 40 days? That is not the problem and this is something this Administration does routinely. They do not think it through to the end. Great at the initial step, because military is run by professionals, and then nothing...

---

OK first, IIRC you have been one of the people making a big deal about drones and new technology. That applies to the Iran condition. Just because occupation in WW2 was necessary to change a regime, does not necessarily mean that is the case now.

Second, you still seem to think this is a video game where it's over before your microwave burrito is done. 40 days of very selective use of weapons is nothing in real terms. The only wild card there is Congress, whose ability to take a stand for anything but pay raises has been non-existent for decades. No one in the House really seems to want to put their name on the line in this conflict, nor the Senate that I can see. That's letting Trump take credit or the blame for how things play out.

Now as to the Iran strategy. Trump is getting all the attention, for 3 reasons:

1. It's Trump. He wants the attention no matter what.

2. It's to the US' advantage in negotiations to have Iran's side think the variable mood President is making the decisions, if only to keep the Iranians from figuring out what we're up to.'

3. Every action take up to now has been planned and worked out long ago on the US side. Some things worked out as expected, many did not, which is what happens in war. The US IC has certainly long been aware of who was running various parts of Iran's government and military, as well as those who were behind shooting the protesters, which was a big part of why the war went hot in late February.

The people I talk to are for obvious reasons not sharing strategy, but they are doing a great job of radiating confidence, and these are professionals, not MAGA internet warriors. There is a lot going on that is not getting attention in the media, for good reason and for good purpose.

Once again, you are talking executing the war. We agree on that. I agreed it was only 40 days so far. Military outcome is not the issue.

I asked about after. Are we occupying? And if so, how long?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Once again, you are talking executing the war. We agree on that. I agreed it was only 40 days so far. Military outcome is not the issue.

I asked about after. Are we occupying? And if so, how long?

---

Not even, 60 days and counting, and it appears we've reached some sort of stalemate

FLBear5630 said:

---

Once again, you are talking executing the war. We agree on that. I agreed it was only 40 days so far. Military outcome is not the issue.

I asked about after. Are we occupying? And if so, how long?

---

Short answer, no we will not occupy. It's high-risk low-reward to do that, something too many did not understand.


That does not mean there won't be regime change in Iran, however.

There are a number of ways to work that plan.

No, there isnt. If we dont occupy, old group will come back. There wont be regime change as you are talking without day to day control backed by infantry.

FLBear5630 said:

---

No, there isnt. If we dont occupy, old group will come back. There wont be regime change as you are talking without day to day control backed by infantry.

---

Enjoy your tantrum. I'm going to listen to the men who planned this for years.

You can keep listening to the voices in your head, because you sure as all get out are not listening to reason.

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

No, there isnt. If we dont occupy, old group will come back. There wont be regime change as you are talking without day to day control backed by infantry.

---

Enjoy your tantrum. I'm going to listen to the men who planned Iraq and Afghanistan.

---

Good luck with that!

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

No, there isnt. If we dont occupy, old group will come back. There wont be regime change as you are talking without day to day control backed by infantry.

---

Enjoy your tantrum. I'm going to listen to the men who planned [ lie inserted by Sam in hopes of looking cool ]

---

Good luck with that!

---

Poor Sam.

Dude, Iraq and Afghanistan were planned and coordinated by men two decades ago in a very different world.

You're going to have to do better than pretend those guys are still calling the plans.

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam ignores the context. He also ignores these verses:

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:7

" you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock." Deueronomy 13:15

" The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho." Joshua 10:30

" He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

---

These points would be better addressed to FoilHat since he's the one claiming the pope is a pacifist.

Leo is referring to those who wage unjust war, and who add to their own sin by clothing their conduct in religion.

---

The pope didn't add much clarification. He made a blanket statement that was false, he very easily could have provided context but chose not to.

---

Sermons are meant to instruct, not necessarily to present a systematic theology. This one was very much in the prophetic mode. The context is in the catechism and current events.

---

Or, in English, the Pope inserted his personal opinion but wants to say it's God talking.

---

Yep. "Jesus doesn't answer hear the prayers of people I disagree with ..."

---

So, you are saying Jesus does answer the prayers of people to destroy a whole civilization?

---

Lol, did that happen recently?

But yes, Jesus hears the prayers of all kinds of people that waged war.. Some civilizations need to be destroyed. Those currently controlling Iran seem to be worthy of being destroyed.
But hey thankfully those murderers have bright minds like you and Sam to defend and protect them.
Hard to believe how ridiculous grown American men have become defending Iran. I hope the American military curb stomps them out of existence. Let's drop more Bombs than Obama did. It's time for the decent people of Iran to get their country back.

---

Both of those things can't be true.

---

Of course they can

---

So which do you want to do first, destroy it or give it back to them?

---

Was it Cyrus the Great the destroyed the Babylonian civilization, and built a new Persian civilization. I need to check my history, or maybe you should. Civilizations get conquered and the people become part of something else. It's not a hard concept. You're just a clown these days.

Anyway let's go with the modern evil Iran replaced by something better for its people.