Eball said:

---

Thee University said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

Its real simple.

I hold him responsible, more than anyone associated with Baylor, for allowing our current fiasco to bring us to this point. He could have prevented it. He could have stopped it. He could have lessened the impact.

He chose to remain unattached and seemingly aloof.

When someone brings Baylor Football down to the depths it has been brought to, a program I helped build, I tend to distance myself from them. I have skin in the game that probably 95% of poster's on this board can not identify with. I was allowed to enter the Baylor Football program for 4 years. When I left Baylor the football program was in much better shape than when I got there. I was proud of this FACT.

Sure, winning was fun but I'd rather Baylor be an 8-4 or 10-2 without the discipline problems and nationwide black eyes. We did it before. We can do it again.

Art let me down.

---

So you think Art was supposed to change BU culture in so far as how they viewed victims of sexual assault? And implement title IX reforms campus wide ?

---

Did I say that?

57Bear said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Harass her and burglarize her apartment?

---

Did she file a police report? How did she know who burglarized her apartment?

OR is this just another allegation from her lawyer?

---

if she filed it with BaylorPD, would it still exist?

Weren't you quoting the plaintiff attorney reciting Ian's deposition as gospel last week.

YoakDaddy said:

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Thee University said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

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Everybody take note. Bookmark this thread and Thee's post. Thee agrees with the current BOFR that covering up sexual assaults for the sake of the brand is acceptable.

---

The sad and tragic thing in this entire fiasco that Briles brought down on our heads is that none of you guys cared one iota about the smoke billowing out of BU concerning lack of discipline, assaults, beatings, rapes, grades changed, etc. until your boy got rightfully axed. Once this happened you all scrambled to find someone else to blame.

I don't agree with covering up anything poindexter. Particularly when it cheapens my alma mater. I merely reminded you guys that "cover ups" have been going on at BU for YEARS.

Reality escapes many Baylor alumni for a variety of reasons. Mommy and daddy allowed you to suckle at the teat too long. The Baylor Bubble is a safe place for most of the snowflakes on here. Winning football games became a drug for those that had sand kicked in their faces for so many years. Collateral damage is fine no matter how damning as long as it does not affect YOU and YOUR family.

Bookmark the hell out of it! If you want more bookmark material just let me know.

---

Let me quote you again so you see what a scumbag you are in defending the BOFR and their actions at all costs.

"This sewer hole must stink so bad that a cover up was the only thing to do. BU is going to protect the school/brand over football all day long. As well they should." - Thee

With that attitude and statement, you and Chief Doak must be related.

You gonna tell a girl's dad, sorry your little girl was part of that 90% rape stat, but we had to protect the brand since we were collectively too stupid to ask basic questions about compliance. It's fluffers like you that the BOFR loves because you seek no consequences and no accountability for mistakes made.

Many of us haven't given a rip about Briles for a long time. Keep blaming Briles tho.

---

I STILL believe that based on what I know, what I have seen and what I have heard that the BOR had no choice to do anything different. There are too many bright folks on the BOR to believe they could have done anything differently that would have made us all happy.

At all costs? You just made that up. The costs were enormous but I never insinuated that it did not matter what it costs. Only that BU has been protecting its name and brand for years and that it will NEVER change.

It is none of my business to try to defend the BU rape stats. My business, when I raised my two girls and one son was to raise them to be smart, not put yourself in tough situations, be careful who you choose as friends and go out with, know your limits when drinking, understand that hormones can go crazy and to protect yourself at all times, don't go out alone and never go to an apartment with any boy alone until you know that person like they knew their brother.

I've never been nominated for Father of the Year but I did do everything in my power for 18 years to raise my kids to conduct themselves like ladies and gentlemen at all times. I think based on the reviews of them (28, 25 and 23 years old) so far that I can give myself a passing grade and that most of what I taught them stuck. I allowed them to make their own choices on where to go to school and while saddened temporarily that none of them chose Baylor, I realized why they went elsewhere.

I have two lawyer friends (not Baylor grads) who thought enough of Baylor to send their daughters to Waco. Both of them, on separate occasions, told me that when their daughters came home after Year 1 they said, "the Baylor football players are out of control".

The wins mattered most to some. Collateral damage never entered their minds until we found out just how bad it was. But even then many on here were blaming others and telling us that this is just the way it is in NCAA football today. BS!

You are wrong. The gnashing of teeth continues from the Briles apologists. Briles is the reason we are where we are today. He controlled his future. He had Baylor by the tail. All he had to do was institute discipline, self-control, honor and pride. All he had to do was win by toeing the Baylor Line., He either couldn't or didn't want to bad enough.

Thee University said:

---

Eball said:

---

Thee University said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

Its real simple.

I hold him responsible, more than anyone associated with Baylor, for allowing our current fiasco to bring us to this point. He could have prevented it. He could have stopped it. He could have lessened the impact.

He chose to remain unattached and seemingly aloof.

When someone brings Baylor Football down to the depths it has been brought to, a program I helped build, I tend to distance myself from them. I have skin in the game that probably 95% of poster's on this board can not identify with. I was allowed to enter the Baylor Football program for 4 years. When I left Baylor the football program was in much better shape than when I got there. I was proud of this FACT.

Sure, winning was fun but I'd rather Baylor be an 8-4 or 10-2 without the discipline problems and nationwide black eyes. We did it before. We can do it again.

Art let me down.

---

So you think Art was supposed to change BU culture in so far as how they viewed victims of sexual assault? And implement title IX reforms campus wide ?

---

Did I say that?

---

Nope.

NoBSU said:

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Gruvin said:

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xiledinok said:

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TheAgentGrant said:

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I have issues? Your law degree doesn't impress me you piece of ***** I'm honest and when a women tells guys let's get it on and then changes her story that's a problem.

---

"You" meant the guys in the action.
A degree means nothing, they have problems once she calls off consent.

---

if she calls off consent the day after or a week later, then what does a guy do?

---

Harass her and burglarize her apartment?

---

Or Maybe if I raped her, we start spreading rumors and putting out that it was consent and she begged for it.
These guys are telling folks privately but won't go public because 1) they are crystal clean but afraid the heat might get too tough to handle 2) are guilty as ever and know that they will get asked questions 3) don't want to be brought into things because there is more baggage 4) have promised all involved to keep quiet and stay loyal to each other 5) it was an old fashion gang bang but the video says otherwise 6) more speculation 7) more speculation.....

Doesn't make sense to harass and burglarize her apartment after the fact. Intimidation looks bad.

NoBSU said:

---

57Bear said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Harass her and burglarize her apartment?

---

Did she file a police report? How did she know who burglarized her apartment?

OR is this just another allegation from her lawyer?

---

if she filed it with BaylorPD, would it still exist?

Weren't you quoting the plaintiff attorney reciting Ian's deposition as gospel last week.

---

May 18, 2017 Jane Doe sued Baylor in Waco federal court on Tuesday, alleging Title IX violations.
https://www.courthousenews.com/baylor-faces-another-lawsuit-alleged-gang-rape/

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

57Bear said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

57Bear said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Harass her and burglarize her apartment?

---

Did she file a police report? How did she know who burglarized her apartment?

OR is this just another allegation from her lawyer?

---

if she filed it with BaylorPD, would it still exist?

Weren't you quoting the plaintiff attorney reciting Ian's deposition as gospel last week.

---

May 18, 2017 Jane Doe sued Baylor in Waco federal court on Tuesday, alleging Title IX violations.
https://www.courthousenews.com/baylor-faces-another-lawsuit-alleged-gang-rape/

---

Oh yeah, the dog fighting.
They know they will killed in public if the dog fighting comes out again. They have an excuse to hide. I forgot about the dog fighting aspect. Even dog fighters were offended with his lack of skills handling the dog. He should have started with a pet fish.
The public hates dog fighters. What happen to our last dog fighter? The one with good size and speed that could have had a chance at the NFL.

Does anyone believe the regents would have not had their Is and Ts crossed when they put out the report? It was a point by point presentation that was definitely prepared for getting attacked. After watching the alumni association knock them around, they were very prepared for the Briles/Shill Ian groups. The attacks on the FOF are fine with them because they understood the idiots they were facing and knew that they had the goods to back it up in case the idiots decided to mount an attack.

The FOF was bait for the regents if attacked. Don't think for a minute they didn't think those would be attacked.

Any know if the $10k reward is getting moved to $100k. I know a good accountant who thinks we can make $50k off the reward and understands that some of the reward will be used as informant money to buy information. Well, we know that reward isn't going anywhere and no one is going to take it serious among mainstream society. It just makes us look crazy.


No mention of Starr in this thread. The fact he actually was getting paid to do nothing at Baylor (other than blow off the Title IX letter, unlike every other major school in the country) never gets mentioned. He was not much of an administrator though popular among those not in law enforcement because he went after Clinton.

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

Once again, Grunt nails it.

Grunt, a couple of old heads like our ownselves were commiserating this week. We came to the conclusion that the generations coming after us don't really really understand where Baylor has been or what it was. A few misguided souls have drug Baylor in some strange directions.

This board has fractured into several sects and we're thinking we need to quit talking about and do something about it.

Any ideas?

Bears for Leadership Reform, with the backing of several BMD and past regents, grappled with this problem. They invested time and money. What did they find?

Osodecentx said:

---

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

---

Whose lives did they ruin? Post firing actions sure ruined at least one. They gave Briles a letter and he went out and dipped them so badly that the letter looks like a fraud. If someone showed you the letter from Briles and you were looking for a coach after Briles' post firing actions, you would take the letter as the truth? Looks shady flinging around that letter. If you are not like Davey, dishonesty flows each way.

One day it is lying ass, cover your ass Baylor, the next day it is "the letter is the truth, the word and the way of life."

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end.

Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed.

Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

---

100% this

xiledinok said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

---

Whose lives did they ruin? Post firing actions sure ruined at least one. They gave Briles a letter and he went out and dipped them so badly that the letter looks like a fraud. If someone showed you the letter from Briles and you were looking for a coach after Briles' post firing actions, you would take the letter as the truth? Looks shady flinging around that letter. If you are not like Davey, dishonesty flows each way.

One day it is lying ass, cover your ass Baylor, the next day it is "the letter is the truth, the word and the way of life."

---

You are on the ignore list because of a lack of credibility, but I make an exception b/c you answered me.

BOR ruined the lives of Briles, Starr, several athletes and female students. Nobody has credibly refuted the assertion that a regent wrote the FoF. They lied to cover their ineptness.
A generation of alumni has been shamed by the ham handed public relations fiasco. I can't recommend Baylor to graduating seniors. I am ashamed of Baylor

Earlier athletic scandals were handled without groaning and crying out to God. At those times Baylor leveled with us and asked for the opportunity to regain our trust. This time Baylor flipped us the middle finger and raised ticket prices

Baylor is a voluntary activity.

We are 2 years into this and we are no better off.

Osodecentx said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

---

Whose lives did they ruin? Post firing actions sure ruined at least one. They gave Briles a letter and he went out and dipped them so badly that the letter looks like a fraud. If someone showed you the letter from Briles and you were looking for a coach after Briles' post firing actions, you would take the letter as the truth? Looks shady flinging around that letter. If you are not like Davey, dishonesty flows each way.

One day it is lying ass, cover your ass Baylor, the next day it is "the letter is the truth, the word and the way of life."

---

You are on the ignore list because of a lack of credibility, but I make an exception b/c you answered me.

BOR ruined the lives of Briles, Starr, several athletes and female students. Nobody has credibly refuted the assertion that a regent wrote the FoF. They lied to cover their ineptness.
A generation of alumni has been shamed by the ham handed public relations fiasco. I can't recommend Baylor to graduating seniors. I am ashamed of Baylor

Earlier athletic scandals were handled without groaning and crying out to God. At those times Baylor leveled with us and asked for the opportunity to regain our trust. This time Baylor flipped us the middle finger and raised ticket prices

Baylor is a voluntary activity.

We are 2 years into this and we are no better off.

---

Do me a solid. Copy and paste the parts that are not correct in the FofF and give us a good why that is so

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf

What exactly are those lies to cover their ineptness?

Thanks in advance

Ideas? I don't know. I'm afraid the structure won't allow for truly beneficial change short of a major financial crisis. Think about it. Baylor has endured self inflicted trauma the past decade or so, and yet it stumbles on, with those truly in control refusing to change.

If Baylor were a business corporation with a large, diverse shareholder base, the investors would have forced true change by now instead of the lip service the bosses offered their minions as change. Large institutional investors would have cleaned house.

This is where I get back to the structure of Baylor being the problem. As 57 said, about as strong a group of alumni as could be cobbled together tried like the dickens to force accountability and transparency last year, and utterly failed. Simply stated, if Drayton couldn't get it done, who can?

I think the only thing that will bring about change is financial pressure.

Baylor has a small endowment for a university its size. Life at Baylor today is a bit like a family living high when the breadwinners are drawing nice six figure paychecks.....but they haven't worried about saving for the inevitable rainy day.

I hate to say it, but I think only a major financial crisis will be enough of a bomb to blow then entrenched bosses out of their cozy chairs.

A combination of conference football realignment leaving Baylor out in the cold and an entire generation of alumni refusing to put Baylor in their wills might do the trick. Without Big 12 or similar athletic positioning it's going to be hard to convince the number of students (students' parents) necessary (at $62k/year) to enroll and pay the bills.

57Bear said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

Harass her and burglarize her apartment?

---

Did she file a police report? How did she know who burglarized her apartment?

OR is this just another allegation from her lawyer?

---

Her lawsuit says she reported it to Waco PD, but WPD has no record of such a report.

Osodecentx said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

GruntTuff said:

---

This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

---

We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

---

Whose lives did they ruin? Post firing actions sure ruined at least one. They gave Briles a letter and he went out and dipped them so badly that the letter looks like a fraud. If someone showed you the letter from Briles and you were looking for a coach after Briles' post firing actions, you would take the letter as the truth? Looks shady flinging around that letter. If you are not like Davey, dishonesty flows each way.

One day it is lying ass, cover your ass Baylor, the next day it is "the letter is the truth, the word and the way of life."

---

You are on the ignore list because of a lack of credibility, but I make an exception b/c you answered me.

BOR ruined the lives of Briles, Starr, several athletes and female students. Nobody has credibly refuted the assertion that a regent wrote the FoF. They lied to cover their ineptness.
A generation of alumni has been shamed by the ham handed public relations fiasco. I can't recommend Baylor to graduating seniors. I am ashamed of Baylor

Earlier athletic scandals were handled without groaning and crying out to God. At those times Baylor leveled with us and asked for the opportunity to regain our trust. This time Baylor flipped us the middle finger and raised ticket prices

Baylor is a voluntary activity.

We are 2 years into this and we are no better off.

---

Lack of credibility?
You believe for one minute that all involved weren't responsible? Briles had a letter and it gave him a pass and he waved it around to all.
The finding of fact is what they published and could back up. They expected guys like you to come along and try to discredit it. It's the playbook and they published it in case some ******* comes along and tries to sue them on their investigation. It's bait for those wanting to try to discredit the school.
The pr crisis was caused by a pr campaign. Sorry that the crisis management insurance was set off and they were able to hire the best to hammer their opponents. The pr firm was able to place a story. Briles and his team had KWTX and their friends to attack. THIS ONE REASON BRILES WILL NEVER SEE A COLLEGE FIELD AGAIN. YOU CANNOT GO AFTER AN NCAA SCHOOL AND EXPECT THEIR MEMBERS TO INVITE YOU BACK. YOU ARE A HAZARD ONCE YOU EMBARRASS THEM AND THEIR SPONSORS.

Most of the non football playing graduating seniors are not picking Baylor because of football. I am sorry but only a moron picks a school because of its football program. Baylor has Chip and Jo these days. Those regents were lucky the Waco couple went to Baylor. They are the All-American faces of Baylor. Most students dismiss the issues because they grew up in modern society, where college football is not considered to be clean (they all know recruiting stories and how the schools cheat in sports).

Crying to God? Rev. Wiles is any easy target for the bullies but outside of Waco people do question why he's a target. Picking on the preacher looks bad and went over poorly.

Two years in and we are still washing our hands. We need to look like Baylor and have some class and standards. We made Boren and Oklahoma look good. We are better off because we fired those people a while ago. Nationally, the narrative is a complete rebuild of football and what a difficult job Rhule has because of the past. It is not fair or right but that's how it looks.

These schools are all raising ticket prices. Most are buying off former staffs who underperformed or got fired for other reasons. College basketball is getting its talent taken away in a couple of seasons. No need to believe things will get cheaper with these high priced staffs. Every school is giving their alumni the finger. Those salaries are too high.

Let's at least make this fun: Side bets

1. How many pages can Keyser rep his friends/family/source of payment? +50? +100?

2. Is there ANYTHING that can come out regarding BoRs misconduct, ineptitude, conflicts of interest, etc that would actually get beyond his hypocrisy? More has come out on the BoR now, under oath, than has come out on all the other individuals. So, I'm just curious, will Keyser ever be on the right side of history on this one? Yes or no?

Keyser Soze said:

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Osodecentx said:

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xiledinok said:

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Osodecentx said:

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GruntTuff said:

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This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

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We are similarly situated

I don't trust BOR. It is difficult to get past that. When a business partner, friend, or spouse lies how do you just "move on".

BOR destroyed what was a precious thing to me. Posters here say it is the fault of alumni and that we should just shut up and pay money.

I can't. Baylor ruined lives at the direction of CYA BOR. Baylor is a discretionary expenditure and I'm using my discretion.

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Whose lives did they ruin? Post firing actions sure ruined at least one. They gave Briles a letter and he went out and dipped them so badly that the letter looks like a fraud. If someone showed you the letter from Briles and you were looking for a coach after Briles' post firing actions, you would take the letter as the truth? Looks shady flinging around that letter. If you are not like Davey, dishonesty flows each way.

One day it is lying ass, cover your ass Baylor, the next day it is "the letter is the truth, the word and the way of life."

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You are on the ignore list because of a lack of credibility, but I make an exception b/c you answered me.

BOR ruined the lives of Briles, Starr, several athletes and female students. Nobody has credibly refuted the assertion that a regent wrote the FoF. They lied to cover their ineptness.
A generation of alumni has been shamed by the ham handed public relations fiasco. I can't recommend Baylor to graduating seniors. I am ashamed of Baylor

Earlier athletic scandals were handled without groaning and crying out to God. At those times Baylor leveled with us and asked for the opportunity to regain our trust. This time Baylor flipped us the middle finger and raised ticket prices

Baylor is a voluntary activity.

We are 2 years into this and we are no better off.

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Do me a solid. Copy and paste the parts that are not correct in the FofF and give us a good why that is so

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf

What exactly are those lies to cover their ineptness?

Thanks in advance

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Do me a solid. Prove a regent did not write FoF

Thanks in advance

The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

Keyser Soze said:

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The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

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Can I read the PH report in full? Can I read a transcript of Briles' rebuttal? Can I read the depositions Baylor won't release?

How can I fully answer when all I have is one side?

BTW, we were led to believe that the FoF were written by PH.

GruntTuff said:

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This will never end. Those who think Briles bears the brunt of blame for the disaster at Baylor can't have their minds changed. Those who think the BOR and administration bear the brunt of blame will never have their minds changed.

None of that matters. What we think doesn't matter.

Baylor will continue to exist....probably. But it's not the place it once was. It's now a place where a few power hungry men exercise dominion and control. They hand pick fellow travelers. They refuse to acknowledge their failures by resigning and clearing the pathway forward for Baylor.

Any business which failed as miserably as Baylor in handling student safety, complying with Federal laws and managing the relationship with a large, influential and wealthy segment of its alumni (see Baylor Alumni Association fiasco) would have fired senior management and the shareholders would have fired the Board.

Baylor doesn't work that way. There is zero accountability at the very top. Baylor, which has more than 100,000 stakeholders (alumni, etc.) is run like a fiefdom.

That works ok when a strong, honest person is president. Abner McCall comes to mind.

It doesn't work when the little clique handpicks the president, creates a creates a self perpetuating BOR and refuses to take concrete steps to acknowledge their failure.

I invested 7 years of my life as a student. I had many family members graduate from Baylor. I used to be proud to say I was a Baylor graduate. No more.

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You've nailed it. There is no structure in place to effect any change on governance. In the private sector, a shareholder derivative suit would've forced change and improved transparency and governance (probably long before our most recent scandal, which may have been the most damaging).

As it is, all you can do is watch. If we end up playing our conference games in Lafayette and Hattiesburg, and the higher ed bubble pops a little, you may see some things happen around tuition dependent Baylor. But not before. And maybe not even then.

So you just have to take it for what it's worth at this point and prioritize your time and financial resources accordingly.

Keyser Soze said:

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The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

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For the love of god, are you at least willing to admit your employers had a strong conflict and bias in how the report, that they wrote, was written and would what it would say? Especially in light of the fact that they controlled access to all the findings and raw data and structured it with NO attempt for transparency.

It would be the equivalent of Art writing a FoF on his own football program.

Conflicts of interest, meddling, institutional lack of control, and more have all been shown in reporting, their own PH findings, legal sworn depositions under oath (by their own interim president and others) . Yet you refuse to hold them accountable for anything. I'm curious. How much was your credibility and Self Respect worth?

Osodecentx said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

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Can I read the PH report in full? Can I read a transcript of Briles' rebuttal? Can I read the depositions Baylor won't release?

How can I fully answer when all I have is one side?

BTW, we were led to believe that the FoF were written by PH.

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I am asking what specifically you think is not accurate in the FofF? You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,

Here is the link again

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf

Keyser....you're a smart guy. If you were arguing the other side of this, you would tear up the Regents, and you would do it ably.

Can you, in good conscience, blame people for questioning a report that was written by the ones under the microscope, edited as they saw fit, included what they wanted, and no more, is short on details and "facts" and resulted in not one of them resigning or acknowledging that things truly needed to change in a big way?

Accurate? Does accurate mean complete, transparent, detailed?

While the "Findings of (our version of the) Facts may not contain any falsehoods, the fact that it was issued and then followed up by stonewalling folks of the integrity and "chops" of Drayton McLane just might lead some of us to question it.

Keyser Soze said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

---

Can I read the PH report in full? Can I read a transcript of Briles' rebuttal? Can I read the depositions Baylor won't release?

How can I fully answer when all I have is one side?

BTW, we were led to believe that the FoF were written by PH.

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I am asking what specifically you think is not accurate in the FofF? You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,

Here is the link again

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf

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Maybe it's not as much what they wrote, as it is what they didn't write?

Keyser. Find your own link to Ian's legal deposition under oath. Point out any innaccuracies, which could expose him to criminal prosecution, since he was under oath. Provide proof of said inaccuracies.

I'll wait....

Dman said:

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Keyser. Find your own link to Ian's legal deposition under oath. Point out any innaccuracies. Provide proof of said inaccuracies.

I'll wait....

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Do you have a link to Briles' version of the FofF?

GruntTuff said:

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Keyser....you're a smart guy. If you were arguing the other side of this, you would tear up the Regents, and you would do it ably.

Can you, in good conscience, blame people for questioning a report that was written by the ones under the microscope, edited as they saw fit, included what they wanted, and no more, is short on details and "facts" and resulted in not one of them resigning or acknowledging that things truly needed to change in a big way?

Accurate? Does accurate mean complete, transparent, detailed?

While the "Findings of (our version of the) Facts may not contain any falsehoods, the fact that it was issued and then followed up by stonewalling folks of the integrity and "chops" of Drayton McLane just might lead some of us to question it.

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I am a big fan of questioning. I have questioned a great deal of really crazy and baseless theories as to what happened. I think most of the people who are still bent out of shape wouldn't have batted an eye had all this occurred under Steele when there were piss poor on the field results.

I believe the FofF is accurate and complete. It is severely lacking in details and this allowed the door open for the many baseless theories. Stonewalling is a bad word, there were legit privacy concerns, but I believe they should have given DM, GG, JEW, all the info from the get go.

As time has gone on, two years now, many of those missing details have been filled in. After all this time there has been no major contradiction of the FofF. There has been no major revaluations of omissions either, but to be fair we don't know what we don't know. Those are fair questions but some want to use that as proof of something which it is not.

There are plenty of flaws within our BOR's history. Taking a shot at them is some serious low hanging fruit - they have failed plenty and in a variety of ways ..... none of that is proof of any kind of conspiracy to get rid of Briles and blame football for everything.

Keyser. Still waiting. Find your own link to Ian's legal deposition under oath. Point out any innaccuracies, which could expose him to criminal prosecution, since he was under oath. Provide proof of said inaccuracies.

"You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,"

Dman said:

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Keyser. Still waiting. Find your own link to Ian's legal deposition under oath. Point out any innaccuracies, which could expose him to criminal prosecution, since he was under oath. Provide proof of said inaccuracies.

"You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,"

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Ian's deposition is not available.

You are conflating that the with the motion filed by Dunnam which has some alleged quotes in it. Those appear to be a rehashing on several tired conspiracy theories first put out in mid 2016.

Malbec said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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The regents definitely wrote it. That has never been in question.

Now what specifically in the FofF do you think is inaccurate and why?

I answered your question - can you or will you answer mine?

---

Can I read the PH report in full? Can I read a transcript of Briles' rebuttal? Can I read the depositions Baylor won't release?

How can I fully answer when all I have is one side?

BTW, we were led to believe that the FoF were written by PH.

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I am asking what specifically you think is not accurate in the FofF? You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,

Here is the link again

https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/266596.pdf

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Maybe it's not as much what they wrote, as it is what they didn't write?

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That is certainly the right direction. No doubt many questions we would like to have the answer to.

Keyser Soze said:

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Dman said:

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Keyser. Still waiting. Find your own link to Ian's legal deposition under oath. Point out any innaccuracies, which could expose him to criminal prosecution, since he was under oath. Provide proof of said inaccuracies.

"You seem to be cowering at thought of having to do so. Why?

You seem very good at asking questions but incapable of answering one,"

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Ian's deposition is not available.

You are conflating that the with the motion filed by Dunnam which has some alleged quotes in it. Those appear to be a rehashing on several tired conspiracy theories first put out in mid 2016.

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Actually, I'm not. I'm pointing out the irony and your hypocrisy. You see, all we know is what the BoR wants us to know regarding their FoF. The important, unedited data and findings are "unavailable" to use your words..again. Yet you want others to believe it's the Bible.

Yet in this case, when reports come out about Ian's testimony UNDER OATH, Ian's "FoF" isn't good enough for you. You see, you've had more than enough data, from many cross referenced sources... ex employees, the BoRs own interim president, depositions under oath, their own PH report), all say the same thing. Meddling, conflict of interest, institutional lack of control, etc. The BoR has just as much, if not more blood on their hands than any party involved. Yet you refuse to acknowledge their undeniable shortcomings and failures.

Thanks for making my point...yet again.

(And no worries, those depositions have ways of getting out. You'll have it to reference and analyze at some point. But it won't matter to you)

Keyser Soze said:

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Quote:

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Maybe it's not as much what they wrote, as it is what they didn't write?

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That is certainly the right direction. No doubt many questions we would like to have the answer to.

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Here's one for you. Why wasn't Kaz immediately fired? Didn't he meet with the parent of a victim? Wasn't he a department head and athletic administrator who didn't report a SA? Whose involvement in the volleyball player incident was more acute, Kaz's or Hill's?