Pecos 45 said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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There were off campus dances? I'll be the first to say i was a shut in, but I think I'd have known about that..

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Dude, my frat (and all others) had to hold EVERY dance off campus from 70-74.
As a matter of fact, the Baylor Homecoming Dance was always held at the Heart of Texas Coliseum.
We had to tell Dean DuBose WHERE we would be holding our off-campus dances so they could possibly drop by for a "spot check."

I cannot believe you did not know this.
It was Standard Operational Procedure.

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Surely everyone remembers the old campus joke that goes "Remember to not ever make love standing up, as God will think you're dancing".

PartyBear said:

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howhardcanitbe said:

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bubbadog said:

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George Truett said:

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I still don't get the bizarre and illogical theory that the BOR decided to make their cash cow their scapegoat. It makes absolutely no sense and flies in the face of all the support Briles got over the years from the BOR, including first-class facilities.

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...If nice Baptist mommies and daddies think that Baylor isn't safe for their nice daughters, or if the school is going to look the other way if they become victims of sexual assault, then Baylor is no longer what they thought it was, and they're not going to pay a small fortune to send their kids there. But if you can convince them that the problem was a few unruly big, scary black dudes who were allowed by one bad man to get out of control, then the situation becomes more manageable. "See?" they can tell Baylor people, "we cut out the tumor, and now the cancer is all gone." Except that it wasn't. But they calculated based on what they could sell and what their audience would buy. The fuller truth was a tertiary consideration.

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You are probably right; Baylor's BOR probably did try to maintain this pristine image of Baylor. The ironic part is that, even before the scandal, I really don't think many people (even within the Baylor family) had that view of Baylor--most people probably understood that the Baylor experience would be somewhere between massive state party school and a convent. Enormous cost to maintain a facade that everyone knew was just that.

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Completely agree with this post. Only out of touch fuddy duddy idiots thought that the old mid 20th century image of the school was still the actual image of the university at this stage of the 21st century to begin with even if there had been no scandal.

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I agree as well. But that's also what makes this all even more pathetic. A lot of these guys knew it wasn't really true but had to cling to the pretense anyway, for appearance's sake.

I agree. My point they pathetically were appealing to fuddy duddy out of touch idiots who are minuscule in number by the mid teens of the 21st Century and likely never had even been in the new stadium before anyway.

Ken Starr was the most influential and popular president in decades, maybe ever. He usurped and undermined the traditional power of the regents especially in bringing legal resolution to the alumni association issues. CAB was also approaching a position of power that made the BoR uncomfortable. Neither man is/was a proponent of the traditional hyper-conservative institution that the regents have attempted to maintain. Ukawachu happened, there were obvious issues with how Baylor was handling sexual assault on campus. It was exactly the kindling they needed to create the dumpster fire so dramatic that they could remove Starr. If CAB had to go in the process, that was ok by then too.

This was never about football, rape, ooc scheduling, etc. This was about power and pissed off old white dudes. Old white dudes with ties to members of the equestrian team. Old white dudes with a desperate desire to retain a false image of the school. But most of all, old white dudes willing to use the incidents and media coverage to get back in the power seat and eliminate those who threatened their power.

D. C. Bear said:

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NoBSU said:

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xiledinok said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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bubbadog said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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The media lapped it up with a spoon the way they wanted to read it. Even the PH findings said it was widespread institutional failure to properly implement Title IX procedures, not a football scandal. But they needed a human sacrifice, and Briles the man who made Baylor a national football power, was the attention-grabbing scapegoat they could roast.

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Yeah, this is the part about McCaw's statements that I don't get. What was it about the 13-page summary that he alleges was a lie? I read the whole thing (twice) back when it came out. The summary didn't make football take the blame for everything. Before you even could get to the part about the football program, you had to read through 9 pages detailing the INSTITUTIONAL failures. So I'd like to see more of what's behind the claim that the summary was full of lies.

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I would speculate that it comes from the fact that Baylor addressed the institution wide situation by firing the football coach, and whatever parting words were said by them in describing their remedy.

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Well, the football team was the face of the problem. They were the largest number of incidents and of course they were on scholarship. No one can run a story on the campus wide problem because it doesn't compare poorly to other schools. They can run a story on the football team and get attention.

Where is Robemcdo? He was the first guy trial ballooning innocence and other things to divert away from Ian?

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Race became a HUGE message of Robemcdo in his later stages of posting here. Maybe that was a trial balloon also.

The sports team rape and cover-up stories get the most press it seems. The ironic part is that in the early stages of ESPN reporting, posters objected to the "win at all costs" accusations by ESPN. Sample this forum since last September and see if there isn't some smoke there. First you had to read on here a couple of hundred times that there were zero rapes by football players. Then you buy into the all nuts and ****s explanation and can go all-in on wanting the old staff back.

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Latter stages of his posting? LOL. He was on race as a major theme ages ago back on Baylorfans. Mostly directed at the Waco prosecutor's office. I remember telling him I would believe it when he had some actual evidence.

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He cranked it up to 11 at the end. Early it was the prosecutors and the girls/parents. He ignored the key case black female accuser and plodded on. Later he went all in on the stupid when I dropped a baited hook near him with Dotson. He took that all the way down. Then he blamed racial bias at county offices all on Baylor.

We all know there is some racial bias in most things in America. In the courts, red/yellow/black/white get the best justice they can afford. Rich and guilty is too often a better situation than poor and innocent. That isn't right but it is part of America that that silly Canadian couldn't grasp. Or maybe it is wouldn't grasp because Robemcdo was here to set up Ian.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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There were off campus dances? I'll be the first to say i was a shut in, but I think I'd have known about that..

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Dude, my frat (and all others) had to hold EVERY dance off campus from 70-74.
As a matter of fact, the Baylor Homecoming Dance was always held at the Heart of Texas Coliseum.
We had to tell Dean DuBose WHERE we would be holding our off-campus dances so they could possibly drop by for a "spot check."

I cannot believe you did not know this.
It was Standard Operational Procedure.

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Deduct points if you actually danced.

I just remember standing around drinking.

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Not only did I dance, I danced with good-looking girls, who drank and were "perverted little tarts."
And I loved every moment of it.
For an 18-year-old from a little town in south Mississippi, it was pure heaven.
So many hot women, and they were all glad to see you.

(It was a great world.)

Pecos 45 said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Pecos 45 said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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There were off campus dances? I'll be the first to say i was a shut in, but I think I'd have known about that..

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Dude, my frat (and all others) had to hold EVERY dance off campus from 70-74.
As a matter of fact, the Baylor Homecoming Dance was always held at the Heart of Texas Coliseum.
We had to tell Dean DuBose WHERE we would be holding our off-campus dances so they could possibly drop by for a "spot check."

I cannot believe you did not know this.
It was Standard Operational Procedure.

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Deduct points if you actually danced.

I just remember standing around drinking.

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Not only did I dance, I danced with good-looking girls, who drank and were "perverted little tarts."
And I loved every moment of it.
For an 18-year-old from a little town in south Mississippi, it was pure heaven.
So many hot women, and they were all glad to see you.

(It was a great world.)

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j/k of course

No offense taken, Malbec.
What I remember most fondly, is that just about any guy could get a date with a really good-looking girl at BU in the early 70s.
They outnumbered the males, so your chances were pretty good.
In my little town, all of the really attractive HS chicks were "off the market." They were "going steady" with someone by the time they were 15, and stayed with that guy until graduation, then they got married at 18.
You had no chance to date someone really hot unless you went full "Roy Moore" and started dating 14-year olds before they hit high school.
When I got to Baylor, I was just floored by the possibilities.

Disclaimer: All of the above is a description of life in a small town in south Mississippi in the 1960s, before cell phones, the Internet and Tinder. It may be different now, but I remember those first weeks on the Baylor campus thinking "I have struck gold!"

My point is that Baylor has ALWAYS had students who drank, partied and "hooked up." It is not a new thing. I just believe that many members of the BOR live in such a First Baptist shell/bubble that the PH report offended their sense of order, so they took it out on the FB team. ("No way that behavior takes place at Baylor! It's those black jocks that did this!")

Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

CorsicanaBear said:

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Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

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I agree with this. A heavy dose of naivete and incompetence can end up looking a lot like malice.

Here's another point: the board is a "they," not an "it." Could be some malice in a few and incompetence in many others. And don't forget that some of them voted against this course of action.

CorsicanaBear said:

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Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

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The problem with discounting malice here is that we already know this board acted in malicious ways. It was their group personality.

I'm leaning more toward malice AND incompetence.

I blame all of the BOR, especially Neal Jeffrey, for doing nothing to stand up for our team, and for using Christianity to justify their actions.

Most had their own private reasons for blowing up Art and the team, but the preachers...

bubbadog said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

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The problem with discounting malice here is that we already know this board acted in malicious ways. It was their group personality.

I'm leaning more toward malice AND incompetence.

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Seems like it was a malice by a few, aided by the incompetence of many. Not knowing everything that happened, or most of the players in the drama personally, I will not go so far as to attribute intent to any but the few who demonstrated it. That being said, at no point did anyone on the BOR attempt (at least as it appears from the outside) in a serious way to slow the process down or be a bit more introspective.

Rep points for you, Timbear.

Robert Wilson said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

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I agree with this. A heavy dose of naivete and incompetence can end up looking a lot like malice.

Here's another point: the board is a "they," not an "it." Could be some malice in a few and incompetence in many others. And don't forget that some of them voted against this course of action.

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The small handful of malicious ones running the show and the potted plants that sat idly by and did nothing should all step down.

303Bear said:

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bubbadog said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Given the numerous scenarios floated, especially the "it can't be happening here", I would add:

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence.

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The problem with discounting malice here is that we already know this board acted in malicious ways. It was their group personality.

I'm leaning more toward malice AND incompetence.

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Seems like it was a malice by a few, aided by the incompetence of many. Not knowing everything that happened, or most of the players in the drama personally, I will not go so far as to attribute intent to any but the few who demonstrated it. That being said, at no point did anyone on the BOR attempt (at least as it appears from the outside) in a serious way to slow the process down or be a bit more introspective.

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Agreed -- I don't think they were all filled with malice. But because the rest were unwilling to speak out against or stop the malicious one, malice became a trait associated with the board as a whole and was reflected in actions that the board took. So it became associated with the individuals on the board who were not filled with malice, even if that is not what they wished.

80sBEAR said:

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The small handful of malicious ones running the show and the potted plants that sat idly by and did nothing should all step down.

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If nothing else, this debacle should be fair warning to potential future regents that the position involves serious responsibility that affects the lives and livelihoods of the people who toil to operate the university, and those who seek to learn in its classrooms. If you think that you can become a regent and go along to get along, you had better take heed.

Next up to be deposed: Tom Hill

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Former-BU-AD-disgusted-with-regents-racism-phony-finding-of-fact-486711731.html

About 2/3 down through the article

You all act surprised the regents weren't high fiving the team.
Art's post firing actions did him in more than regents, Too daft to go away (like former coaches caught up with trash blowing all over the place).
CFL could not hire. 1 water tower town coaching stop ahead?

xiledinok said:

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You all act surprised the regents weren't high fiving the team.
Art's post firing actions did him in more than regents, Too daft to go away (like former coaches caught up with trash blowing all over the place).
CFL could not hire. 1 water tower town coaching stop ahead?

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As much as you despise Briles, you should probably lay low on the "he will never be hired again" narrative. Has been a pretty good week for him and not so much for Baylor.

whitetrash said:

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Next up to be deposed: Tom Hill

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Former-BU-AD-disgusted-with-regents-racism-phony-finding-of-fact-486711731.html

About 2/3 down through the article

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I don't know how much he'll add other than skewering them for a wrongful termination.

Did Ian just win Galloway's $10,000 reward?

80sBEAR said:

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xiledinok said:

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You all act surprised the regents weren't high fiving the team.
Art's post firing actions did him in more than regents, Too daft to go away (like former coaches caught up with trash blowing all over the place).
CFL could not hire. 1 water tower town coaching stop ahead?

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As much as you despise Briles, you should probably lay low on the "he will never be hired again" narrative. Has been a pretty good week for him and not so much for Baylor.

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By Ian playing the race card and backing it up with nothing?
Art took the money without hesitation and gets the heat.
The fossils at the Star Telegram aren't writing anything new or earth shattering. Two years ago we knew Dick Willis and company along with the three fired faces of Baylor screwed up royally. No one needs a balancing test to figure out they screwed up.

X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

Timbear said:

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X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

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He gets a fair share of the blame.
You act like he's entitled to coach again because he won a few games at Baylor.
Those regents didn't exactly enhance their reputations. It is not like Willis is a hot item for corporate governance these days.
Ian ended up at Liberty.
Art's post firing actions hurt him. Look at the past coaches in situations like Art and see what they did to get back into coaching. You ll realize what he did wrong.
"Go away dumbass for a minute."

whitetrash said:

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Next up to be deposed: Tom Hill

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Former-BU-AD-disgusted-with-regents-racism-phony-finding-of-fact-486711731.html

About 2/3 down through the article

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"There's the NCAA, there's the Big 12, there's the Texas Rangers, there's Jimmy Dunnam: who can we grab onto to get the truth out? I dunno, let's bring it out," said Hill. "I can't wait."

Sharing Hill's sentiments about information being released, is former Baylor Board of Regents Chairman Gale Galloway.

"When a person is under oath I can tell you, they're not going to lie," said Galloway. "Ian McCaw is telling the truth, and the truth is what we're seeking."

The university benefactor feels so strongly about the truth being released, he's offered a financial incentive for the 'true reasons' behind the firings.

"McCaw's testimony just confirmed what I said over two years ago when I was interviewed by KWTX; I seek the truth, and if anybody can prove me wrong please come forward there's a $10,000 reward," said Galloway. "Now we know why no one's come forward."

In addition to former employees and regents, former student athletes reacted to McCaw's testimony on social media including former Baylor linebacker Taylor Young who recently signed with the Arizona Cardinals.

"No one had our backs when we were the ones getting rocks thrown at us," Young said in a retweet of KWTX's story.

Galloway said the wall was beginning to crumble and continued to call for regent resignations.

"There's some members of that Board of Regents that need to resign right now," said Galloway. "It's easy to tell the truth, when you start lying...that's when it catches up with you, and its catching up with them right now."

Baylor has settled a lot of these cases. I wonder why this one hasn't been settled yet because it looks like it's only going to be getting uglier for BU.

I hope they don't settle it though. I'm up for as many under oath testimonies as we can get.

Timbear said:

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X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

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X is either Buddy or his lap dog.

Nasty, personal attacks all day every day.

boognish_bear said:

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Baylor has settled a lot of these cases. I wonder why this one hasn't been settled yet because it looks like it's only going to be getting uglier for BU.

I hope they don't settle it though. I'm up for as many under oath testimonies as we can get.

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BU lawyers seem to be getting the testimonies sealed almost as quickly as they come out.

I wonder why Bears for Leadership Reform has not had a release on Ian's testimony.

Robert Wilson said:

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Timbear said:

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X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

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X is either Buddy or his lap dog.

Nasty, personal attacks all day every day.

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Not at all.
Buddy and Art. There's a bad combo right there. Big egos clashed and Buddy plays non athletic games better than Art.

Don't let the BOR know their new coach is out there quoting from Drizzy's new album

Robert Wilson said:

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Timbear said:

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X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

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X is either Buddy or his lap dog.

Nasty, personal attacks all day every day.

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I can assure you that X is not Buddy. X and I sat together at my last Baylor football game (Liberty). I am beginning to wonder a little bit about the lap dog part.

Robert Wilson said:

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Timbear said:

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X, is this your part time job, to make sure Briles is blamed for everything. He must have run over your dog or something.

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X is either Buddy or his lap dog.

Nasty, personal attacks all day every day.

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Not even close. Not only is X not Buddy or his lap dog, X has been very critical of them and their regime often. It's become such a ****show, and I'm afraid there may be an encore. In this case, X by his posts has made it clear that he is rightly disappointed at the BOR for the initial problem and subsequent handling, and Briles for his actions after his termination. There's plenty of disappointment to go around in this fiasco -- X just makes sure it gets distributed evenly...