Waco1947 said:

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99%? You have no idea. It's a lie. You can't back it up.

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https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.
Percentage
Reason
.001% - The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
.065% - The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
.085% - The woman was raped
.288% - The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
.294% - The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
.666% - There was a serious fetal abnormality
6.268% - The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
92.330% - No reason (elective)

In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive womenfrom nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.
Percentage
Reason
<0.5% - Victim of rape
3% - Fetal health problems
4% - Physical health problems
4% - Would interfere with education or career
7% - Not mature enough to raise a child
8% - Don't want to be a single mother
19% - Done having children
23% - Can't afford a baby
25% - Not ready for a child
6% - Other

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

REASONS GIVEN FOR ABORTIONS: AGI SURVEY, 1987 [3, 4]

rape or incest - 1 (0.4-1.3)
mother has health problems - 3 (2.8)
possible fetal health problems - 3 (3.3)
unready for responsibility - 21
is too immature or young to have child - 11
woman's parents want her to have abortion - <0.5
has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood - 12
husband or partner wants her to have abortion - 1
has all the children she wanted or all children are grown - 8 (7.9)
can't afford baby now - 21 (21.3)
concerned about how having baby would change her life - 16
doesn't want others to know she had relations or is pregnant - 1
other - 3

OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Define "human ". Simple existence, the power to think, to feel emotion, to communicate, heart beat, brain activity.. Are women human? Do they have rights?

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Is there a "right" to kill another human (who feels, has a heart beat, brain activity) because their life is inconvenient to you?

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Still waiting for Waco to answer this very important question.

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. Of course it's wrong but it is also morally complex. But murder is always a complex moral decision which we have degrees of murder.
But, ultimately,it's none of my business nor yours because it's not your body or your reproductive health decision. One cannot take every woman to trial and have her "prove" the validity of her decision. First and foremost it's her body.

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Not entirely. The life she takes through abortion is not her own. Who speaks for that life?

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it is her life, not yours and your moral compass. Are you God?.

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A person cannot own another person. The unborn human offspring is not "her life."

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And you don't "own" the woman's life and its's none of your business

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If she kills her week old child, is that my business or not? Yes or no.

Waco1947 said:

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99%? You have no idea. It's a lie. You can't back it up.

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Of course, he has no problem whatsoever backing it up with actual data.

You, on the other hand, still refuse to say when a human fetus becomes human.

Waco1947 said:

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99%? You have no idea. It's a lie. You can't back it up.

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You promote death, and lie about it being "reproductive health". You have no place to pretend you speak from virtue.

Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Define "human ". Simple existence, the power to think, to feel emotion, to communicate, heart beat, brain activity.. Are women human? Do they have rights?

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Is there a "right" to kill another human (who feels, has a heart beat, brain activity) because their life is inconvenient to you?

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Still waiting for Waco to answer this very important question.

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. Of course it's wrong but it is also morally complex. But murder is always a complex moral decision which we have degrees of murder.
But, ultimately,it's none of my business nor yours because it's not your body or your reproductive health decision. One cannot take every woman to trial and have her "prove" the validity of her decision. First and foremost it's her body.

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Not entirely. The life she takes through abortion is not her own. Who speaks for that life?

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So that life is in a test tube in a burning building. Do you run in and save it?

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We're talking about a life, a real human life. Don't make excuses to pretend a human fetus is a "test tube".

God knows your heart. Do you?

Waco1947 said:

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OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

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'47 some people just don't see things that way. They view the life of the unborn child as equivalent to the life of the mother. You can debate that, but it doesn't necessarily make them uncaring towards women as you have made accusations about or that they don't believe in women's rights. They just don't rank the rights of the women above the rights of the unborn child.

As to whether or not something is "my business" is up for debate as well. We choose and the government chooses to make things "their business" all the time against the wishes of other people.

Someone could say, "What guns are in my home are none of your business", yet governments disagree and you personally have strong feelings about that and continue to advocate for change on that topic. I may disagree with some of your opinions on the subject, but I don't attempt to boil a complex issue down to "it's none of your business" and I certainly don't think your opinions on that subject are based on you not caring at all about a certain group of people.

We should all be willing to attempt to answer questions posed to us, especially the ones that are most challenging. Sometimes we may not have a good answer for why we feel the way we do, but in the effort I think we all benefit.

90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

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'47 some people just don't see things that way. They view the life of the unborn child as equivalent to the life of the mother. You can debate that, but it doesn't necessarily make them uncaring towards women as you have made accusations about or that they don't believe in women's rights. They just don't rank the rights of the women above the rights of the unborn child.

As to whether or not something is "my business" is up for debate as well. We choose and the government chooses to make things "their business" all the time against the wishes of other people.

Someone could say, "What guns are in my home are none of your business", yet governments disagree and you personally have strong feelings about that and continue to advocate for change on that topic. I may disagree with some of your opinions on the subject, but I don't attempt to boil a complex issue down to "it's none of your business" and I certainly don't think your opinions on that subject are based on you not caring at all about a certain group of people.

We should all be willing to attempt to answer questions posed to us, especially the ones that are most challenging. Sometimes we may not have a good answer for why we feel the way we do, but in the effort I think we all benefit.

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Thsnk you. I can answer these concerns. Thank you for your reasonable answers and questions. You may need to remind me. I may be going to The Mexican border to help with the caravan. I have a friend who has a mission in Matamoros. Want to join me?

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

---

'47 some people just don't see things that way. They view the life of the unborn child as equivalent to the life of the mother. You can debate that, but it doesn't necessarily make them uncaring towards women as you have made accusations about or that they don't believe in women's rights. They just don't rank the rights of the women above the rights of the unborn child.

As to whether or not something is "my business" is up for debate as well. We choose and the government chooses to make things "their business" all the time against the wishes of other people.

Someone could say, "What guns are in my home are none of your business", yet governments disagree and you personally have strong feelings about that and continue to advocate for change on that topic. I may disagree with some of your opinions on the subject, but I don't attempt to boil a complex issue down to "it's none of your business" and I certainly don't think your opinions on that subject are based on you not caring at all about a certain group of people.

We should all be willing to attempt to answer questions posed to us, especially the ones that are most challenging. Sometimes we may not have a good answer for why we feel the way we do, but in the effort I think we all benefit.

---

Thsnk you. I can answer these concerns. Thank you for your reasonable answers and questions. You may need to remind me. I may be going to The Mexican border to help with the caravan. I have a friend who has a mission in Matamoros. Want to join me?

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Work and family responsibilities do somewhat limit my current ability to travel for mission work, but I certainly wish you a safe journey. The drug cartels have unfortunately made that city (and many other border cities) far less safe and enjoyable as they once were.

90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

---

'47 some people just don't see things that way. They view the life of the unborn child as equivalent to the life of the mother. You can debate that, but it doesn't necessarily make them uncaring towards women as you have made accusations about or that they don't believe in women's rights. They just don't rank the rights of the women above the rights of the unborn child.

As to whether or not something is "my business" is up for debate as well. We choose and the government chooses to make things "their business" all the time against the wishes of other people.

Someone could say, "What guns are in my home are none of your business", yet governments disagree and you personally have strong feelings about that and continue to advocate for change on that topic. I may disagree with some of your opinions on the subject, but I don't attempt to boil a complex issue down to "it's none of your business" and I certainly don't think your opinions on that subject are based on you not caring at all about a certain group of people.

We should all be willing to attempt to answer questions posed to us, especially the ones that are most challenging. Sometimes we may not have a good answer for why we feel the way we do, but in the effort I think we all benefit.

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My brief answer is that I equate a woman's right to her own reproductive health rights as equal to your 2nd Amendment rights.

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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OK I get what you're saying. You are saying a woman's physical is not at risk. I was using "life" more genettally not simply physical. If I more to lay those reasons you would simply declare them shallow but that's not your job. Nobody said "90s gets to make decisions for women based on his limited understanding of pregnancy." It's none of your business. I may disagree with her reasons too and will tell her so but finally it's not my business nor yours

---

'47 some people just don't see things that way. They view the life of the unborn child as equivalent to the life of the mother. You can debate that, but it doesn't necessarily make them uncaring towards women as you have made accusations about or that they don't believe in women's rights. They just don't rank the rights of the women above the rights of the unborn child.

As to whether or not something is "my business" is up for debate as well. We choose and the government chooses to make things "their business" all the time against the wishes of other people.

Someone could say, "What guns are in my home are none of your business", yet governments disagree and you personally have strong feelings about that and continue to advocate for change on that topic. I may disagree with some of your opinions on the subject, but I don't attempt to boil a complex issue down to "it's none of your business" and I certainly don't think your opinions on that subject are based on you not caring at all about a certain group of people.

We should all be willing to attempt to answer questions posed to us, especially the ones that are most challenging. Sometimes we may not have a good answer for why we feel the way we do, but in the effort I think we all benefit.

---

My brief answer is that I equate a woman's right to her own reproductive health rights as equal to your 2nd Amendment rights.

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And some people disagree with you - that abortion is not equivalent to reproductive rights. It's not only men (as you have sometimes asserted) and it is not to assert control over women which is another argument often repeated my many pro-choice advocates. Again, you may disagree, but it is disingenuous to make some of the assertions you have made and ignoring valid responses such as ignoring women's groups that are also against abortion.

As for 2nd amendment rights, you are often very vocal in your belief in the dangers of guns. You should not be surprised when anti-abortion advocates are also vocal in a cause they feel passionate about.

Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

Waco1947 said:

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Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

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Factually abortion is the destruction of human life.

To claim otherwise is ignorance.

https://lozierinstitute.org/a-scientific-view-of-when-life-begins/

"The conclusion that human life begins at sperm-egg fusion is uncontested, objective, based on the universally accepted scientific method of distinguishing different cell types from each other and on ample scientific evidence (thousands of independent, peer-reviewed publications). Moreover, it is entirely independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos."

Dr. Condic is Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Adjunct Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Utah School of Medicine. She is also Director of Human Embryology instruction for the Medical School and of Human Neuroanatomy for the Dental School.

Waco1947 said:

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Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

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Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact.

When you take out the lies I will answer.

Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

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Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

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If you can point out a lie, I will take it out.

D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

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If you can point out a lie, I will take it out.

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Waco1947 is a lost child

90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

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Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

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Hete is the lie "Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear"
It is a lie because it is a right constitutionally, legally and theologically
1) Constitutionally - The United States Constitution does not contain any specific provisions regarding the rights one has with respect to his or her physical body or the specific extent to which the state can act upon bodies.[12] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.

Conversely, the Supreme Court has also protected the right of governmental entities to infringe upon bodily integrity. Examples include laws prohibiting the use of drugs, laws prohibiting euthanasia, laws requiring the use of seatbelts and helmets, strip searches of prisoners, and forced blood tests.
And the 4th Amendment "The United States Constitution
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.
4th Amendment "Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, . . . . shall not be violated
2). Legally - abortion is legal.
3). God made our bodies. Sexually each person, male or female, has the right to determine who can touch it.
Those are facts not opinions. Your use of opinion is a lie.

The 'mnister' is even worse as a fake lawyer.

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

---

Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

---

Hete is the lie "Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear"
It is a lie because it is a right constitutionally, legally and theologically
1) Constitutionally - The United States Constitution does not contain any specific provisions regarding the rights one has with respect to his or her physical body or the specific extent to which the state can act upon bodies.[12] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.

Conversely, the Supreme Court has also protected the right of governmental entities to infringe upon bodily integrity. Examples include laws prohibiting the use of drugs, laws prohibiting euthanasia, laws requiring the use of seatbelts and helmets, strip searches of prisoners, and forced blood tests.
And the 4th Amendment "The United States Constitution
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.
4th Amendment "Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, . . . . shall not be violated
2). Legally - abortion is legal.
3). God made our bodies. Sexually each person, male or female, has the right to determine who can touch it.
Those are facts not opinions. Your use of opinion is a lie.

---

1. I was not even talking about constitutional rights, but the point stands even with the constitution. There can be no actual debate that there is a constitutional right to trial by jury. However, since the constitution does not contain any provision about abortion, and since there is ongoing debate on whether or not abortion is a constitutional right, it is not a lie to say that abortion being a constitutional right is an opinion.

More generally, whether something is a natural right or ought to be a right is a matter of opinion as well, and not a matter of fact. Characterizing abortion as a right is an opinion, for me to say that is not a lie, and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling anyone a liar for saying so.

I happen to believe capital punishment is wrong. However, someone is not a liar if they hold the opposite view and I would be an idiot to call them a liar for saying capital punishment is right. If, however, the say capital punishment does not involve killing, that is a lie, not an opinion because capital punishment, by definition, involves killing.

2. Some abortion is legal, some is not. To say with a blanket statement that "abortion is legal" is incomplete and, in any event, has no bearing whatsoever on whether characterizing that killing as a right is a matter of fact or opinion.

3. Whether someone has the right to determine who can touch their bodies is a matter of opinion. It is a value question, and not a fact question.

You have failed miserably in your attempt to find a lie in my post.

Also, you should cite your source(s). Plagiarism is unbecoming.

Finally, answer the question. When does a human fetus become human?

D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

---

Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

---

Hete is the lie "Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear"
It is a lie because it is a right constitutionally, legally and theologically
1) Constitutionally - The United States Constitution does not contain any specific provisions regarding the rights one has with respect to his or her physical body or the specific extent to which the state can act upon bodies.[12] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.

Conversely, the Supreme Court has also protected the right of governmental entities to infringe upon bodily integrity. Examples include laws prohibiting the use of drugs, laws prohibiting euthanasia, laws requiring the use of seatbelts and helmets, strip searches of prisoners, and forced blood tests.
And the 4th Amendment "The United States Constitution
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.
4th Amendment "Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, . . . . shall not be violated
2). Legally - abortion is legal.
3). God made our bodies. Sexually each person, male or female, has the right to determine who can touch it.
Those are facts not opinions. Your use of opinion is a lie.

---

1. I was not even talking about constitutional rights, but the point stands even with the constitution. There can be no actual debate that there is a constitutional right to trial by jury. However, since the constitution does not contain any provision about abortion, and since there is ongoing debate on whether or not abortion is a constitutional right, it is not a lie to say that abortion being a constitutional right is an opinion.

More generally, whether something is a natural right or ought to be a right is a matter of opinion as well, and not a matter of fact. Characterizing abortion as a right is an opinion, for me to say that is not a lie, and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling anyone a liar for saying so.

I happen to believe capital punishment is wrong. However, someone is not a liar if they hold the opposite view and I would be an idiot to call them a liar for saying capital punishment is right. If, however, the say capital punishment does not involve killing, that is a lie, not an opinion because capital punishment, by definition, involves killing.

2. Some abortion is legal, some is not. To say with a blanket statement that "abortion is legal" is incomplete and, in any event, has no bearing whatsoever on whether characterizing that killing as a right is a matter of fact or opinion.

3. Whether someone has the right to determine who can touch their bodies is a matter of opinion. It is a value question, and not a fact question.>>>>>>>>>oh hell no. The whole point was it's a right not an opinion. You don't get to just sweep away with some nonsense <<<<<<<<<<<<,,

You have failed miserably in your attempt to find a lie in my post.

Also, you should cite your source(s). Plagiarism is unbecoming.

Finally, answer the question. When does a human fetus become human?

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. You're evading about "right." Why talk to an evader? You know it's wiki so I assumed you were smart enough to figure that out.

Touching another body without permission is an absolute God given legal right. The metoo movement proves it. Your wife, sister, mother prove. No one but no one touches them without permission.

Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

---

Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

---

Hete is the lie "Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear"
It is a lie because it is a right constitutionally, legally and theologically
1) Constitutionally - The United States Constitution does not contain any specific provisions regarding the rights one has with respect to his or her physical body or the specific extent to which the state can act upon bodies.[12] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.

Conversely, the Supreme Court has also protected the right of governmental entities to infringe upon bodily integrity. Examples include laws prohibiting the use of drugs, laws prohibiting euthanasia, laws requiring the use of seatbelts and helmets, strip searches of prisoners, and forced blood tests.
And the 4th Amendment "The United States Constitution
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.
4th Amendment "Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, . . . . shall not be violated
2). Legally - abortion is legal.
3). God made our bodies. Sexually each person, male or female, has the right to determine who can touch it.
Those are facts not opinions. Your use of opinion is a lie.

---

1. I was not even talking about constitutional rights, but the point stands even with the constitution. There can be no actual debate that there is a constitutional right to trial by jury. However, since the constitution does not contain any provision about abortion, and since there is ongoing debate on whether or not abortion is a constitutional right, it is not a lie to say that abortion being a constitutional right is an opinion.

More generally, whether something is a natural right or ought to be a right is a matter of opinion as well, and not a matter of fact. Characterizing abortion as a right is an opinion, for me to say that is not a lie, and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling anyone a liar for saying so.

I happen to believe capital punishment is wrong. However, someone is not a liar if they hold the opposite view and I would be an idiot to call them a liar for saying capital punishment is right. If, however, the say capital punishment does not involve killing, that is a lie, not an opinion because capital punishment, by definition, involves killing.

2. Some abortion is legal, some is not. To say with a blanket statement that "abortion is legal" is incomplete and, in any event, has no bearing whatsoever on whether characterizing that killing as a right is a matter of fact or opinion.

3. Whether someone has the right to determine who can touch their bodies is a matter of opinion. It is a value question, and not a fact question.>>>>>>>>>oh hell no. The whole point was it's a right not an opinion. You don't get to just sweep away with some nonsense <<<<<<<<<<<<,,

You have failed miserably in your attempt to find a lie in my post.

Also, you should cite your source(s). Plagiarism is unbecoming.

Finally, answer the question. When does a human fetus become human?

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. You're evading about "right." Why talk to an evader? You know it's wiki so I assumed you were smart enough to figure that out.

Touching another body without permission is an absolute God given legal right. The metoo movement proves it. Your wife, sister, mother prove. No one but no one touches them without permission.

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1) You are a complete hypocrite to accuse anyone of avoiding answering a question. I mean really. He absolutely addressed your accusation of lies and discussed the "right" of abortion - you continue to completely avoid answering his question.

2) Abortion is not an issue of touching without permission - that would be a forced abortion. Unless you are referring to an unborn baby not giving permission? This is another example of you evading his question.

3) You are a complete hypocrite.
https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/35156/3
"You answer questions you want to answer."
"you could have answered by now with all your ducking weaving."
Waco1947

Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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90sBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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When you take out the lies I will answer.

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Specify the "lies" in this quote:

"Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. That is a fact. To be more detailed, abortion involves the killing of unborn human offspring. Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear

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Hete is the lie "Characterizing that killing as a "right" is an opinion, not a fact." - D.C.Bear"
It is a lie because it is a right constitutionally, legally and theologically
1) Constitutionally - The United States Constitution does not contain any specific provisions regarding the rights one has with respect to his or her physical body or the specific extent to which the state can act upon bodies.[12] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.

Conversely, the Supreme Court has also protected the right of governmental entities to infringe upon bodily integrity. Examples include laws prohibiting the use of drugs, laws prohibiting euthanasia, laws requiring the use of seatbelts and helmets, strip searches of prisoners, and forced blood tests.
And the 4th Amendment "The United States Constitution
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld right to privacy, which, as articulated by Julie Lane, often protects rights to bodily integrity. In Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) the Court supported women's rights to obtain birth control (and thus, retain reproductive autonomy) without marital consent. Similarly, a woman's right to privacy in obtaining abortions was protected by Roe v. Wade (1973). In McFall v. Shimp (1978), a Pennsylvania court ruled that a person cannot be forced to donate bone marrow, even if such a donation would save another person's life.
4th Amendment "Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, . . . . shall not be violated
2). Legally - abortion is legal.
3). God made our bodies. Sexually each person, male or female, has the right to determine who can touch it.
Those are facts not opinions. Your use of opinion is a lie.

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1. I was not even talking about constitutional rights, but the point stands even with the constitution. There can be no actual debate that there is a constitutional right to trial by jury. However, since the constitution does not contain any provision about abortion, and since there is ongoing debate on whether or not abortion is a constitutional right, it is not a lie to say that abortion being a constitutional right is an opinion.

More generally, whether something is a natural right or ought to be a right is a matter of opinion as well, and not a matter of fact. Characterizing abortion as a right is an opinion, for me to say that is not a lie, and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling anyone a liar for saying so.

I happen to believe capital punishment is wrong. However, someone is not a liar if they hold the opposite view and I would be an idiot to call them a liar for saying capital punishment is right. If, however, the say capital punishment does not involve killing, that is a lie, not an opinion because capital punishment, by definition, involves killing.

2. Some abortion is legal, some is not. To say with a blanket statement that "abortion is legal" is incomplete and, in any event, has no bearing whatsoever on whether characterizing that killing as a right is a matter of fact or opinion.

3. Whether someone has the right to determine who can touch their bodies is a matter of opinion. It is a value question, and not a fact question.>>>>>>>>>oh hell no. The whole point was it's a right not an opinion. You don't get to just sweep away with some nonsense <<<<<<<<<<<<,,

You have failed miserably in your attempt to find a lie in my post.

Also, you should cite your source(s). Plagiarism is unbecoming.

Finally, answer the question. When does a human fetus become human?

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. You're evading about "right." Why talk to an evader? You know it's wiki so I assumed you were smart enough to figure that out.

Touching another body without permission is an absolute God given legal right. The metoo movement proves it. Your wife, sister, mother prove. No one but no one touches them without permission.

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1. You might want edit the bold sentence above. Those words do not mean what you think they do. Additionally, while we may argue that "we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights," God does not grant legal rights. Governments do. Whether something is a right or not is a value question, not a fact question.

2. No, I don't know its wiki, I didn't look it up.

3. I am not evading anything, but you still refuse to answer the question of when, in your world, a human fetus becomes human.

4. You are struggling with some very basic definitions. Facts can be verified as true or false. The speed of light is about 186,000 miles per second. This is a fact. Values are not not facts. Values are subject to being right or wrong, not true or false. Just because I believe that a person should never be touched against his or her will doesn't make that a fact, it doesn't make it true or false. It means I have an opinion about something that I would have to support with a variety of arguments as to it being right or wrong. I can give all kinds of reasons for why my opinion is moral, but that does not change its nature: it remains an opinion. Basically, you are calling me a liar for saying something that is really indisputable.

Waco1947 said:

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Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

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By that logic, the palm of your hand is your reproductive tract.

whiterock said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

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By that logic, the palm of your hand is your reproductive tract.

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Yep it's why Catholic forbid masturbation.

Waco1947 said:

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whiterock said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Some people may disagree that abortion is a reproductive health issue but factual they are wrong.

It may be their opinion but their opinion does not hold sway over fact. Abortion is a reproductive right because it happens in the reproductive system.
To claim otherwise is ignorance.

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By that logic, the palm of your hand is your reproductive tract.

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Yep it's why Catholic forbid masturbation.

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and abortion....

"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

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Except a drug addicted mom. A 14 yr old with no education. A 35 yr old who had an affair. An idiot male who sabotages her contraception. A congress that won't allow a Plan B

Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

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Except a drug addicted mom. A 14 yr old with no education. A 35 yr old who had an affair. An idiot male who sabotages her contraception. A congress that won't allow a Plan B

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When does a human fetus become human?

D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

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Except a drug addicted mom. A 14 yr old with no education. A 35 yr old who had an affair. An idiot male who sabotages her contraception. A congress that won't allow a Plan B

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Conception? So you save 1,000 embryos on a. Fire

Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

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Except a drug addicted mom. A 14 yr old with no education. A 35 yr old who had an affair. An idiot male who sabotages her contraception. A congress that won't allow a Plan B

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I've seen people make a great childhood in circumstances like these. Thank God they didn't listen to you.

Sam Lowry said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"Women were more permissive than men when it comes to abortion, with 54 percent saying it should be available as a personal choice or allowed in those "clearly established" instances, and 41 percent saying either that it should never be allowed (15 percent) or allowed only under those three exceptions (26 percent). Forty-eight percent of men would allow abortions with few or no restrictions, while 46 percent would either prohibit it (14 percent) or allow it only in exceptional cases (32 percent)." Texas Tribune

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When does a human fetus become human?

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Whenever if it was left alone, it would have chance to have a great childhood, adulthood and live a long beautiful life just like most everybody does

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Except a drug addicted mom. A 14 yr old with no education. A 35 yr old who had an affair. An idiot male who sabotages her contraception. A congress that won't allow a Plan B

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I've seen people make a great childhood in circumstances like these. Thank God they didn't listen to you.

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Outluers don't make your case besides it's none of your business