Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

---

LMAO

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

---

LMAO

---

A predictably common response from many here.

---

There was absolutely no other place for this conversation to go after your last response. Not interested in going around and around in circles.

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

---

LMAO

---

A predictably common response from many here.

---

There was absolutely no other place for this conversation to go after your last response. Not interested in going around and around in circles.

---

Oh please, 'agree to disagree' is perfectly reasonable but you took your marbles and went home because you couldn't force people to agree that your opinion was fact just because you said so.

And anytime you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you, no one else. So telling someone else to go look for evidence supporting your opinion is arrogance and then some.

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Crash Davis said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yes, it's your opinion, which is fine. But no, I am not obliged to go find evidence you say exists which may or may not say what you claim.

Again your opinion is not fact just because you like it.

---

LMAO

---

A predictably common response from many here.

---

There was absolutely no other place for this conversation to go after your last response. Not interested in going around and around in circles.

---

Oh please, 'agree to disagree' is perfectly reasonable but you took your marbles and went home because you couldn't force people to agree that your opinion was fact just because you said so.

And anytime you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you, no one else. So telling someone else to go look for evidence supporting your opinion is arrogance and then some.

---

Ok, buddy. Have a good night.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Would appreciate you pointing out the legal precedent you're referencing regarding the census. Not saying it doesn't exist, but would like to see it.

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why be against full discovery of who is here?

---

If you're supporting the citizenship question -which we know will depress responses- then you're not really supporting the full discovery.

---

But it will reveal who isn't a citizen.

---

GolemIII said:

---

The ONLY reason to object to this question is to use illegals you have encouraged to break our laws as a means to gain permanent power via your solicitation of direct and physical foreign influence on our elections. Anyone who objects to this question is effectively treasonous.

---

Reverend said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

JCWortsman said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

Here's the thing: The Bible these people read and claim as their guide for life apparently doesn't include the parable of the good Samaritan, where the lesson is that YOU do the right thing and take care of people unable to care for and advocate for themselves regardless of what other people do or whether you believe they're untouchable or have some other convenient excuse to pass them by, ignore them or discourage them from responding to the census. And the damage has probably been done. In the unlikely event, given the general lack of respect for the rule of law that characterizes this administration, Census takers do seek to count these people, how many do you think will respond?

The churches they go to apparently never sing the old hymn, "In Christ there is no East or West" (I've pasted the lyrics in below).

The ONLY census they want to take is for the only people they believe really count--white people and conservatives. Liberals, black people, brown people, refugees, immigrants, and women and children who aren't under the care and supervision of a conservative, religious white man aren't worth any investment of taxpayer dollars (and they don't really want to be taxpayers, anyway). Everyone who isn't exactly like them and doesn't share their race and "worldview" is viewed as deserving of hate and scorn, and that's what they get on this site, thanks at least in part to a couple of posters who constantly salt this forum with 8Chan-style propaganda. It's hard to believe Sicem's moderators don't see what's going on; I can only conclude that they do and are complicit.

The level of contempt I see on a daily basis on this forum toward all of those groups not only disregards a constitution that originally gave white landowners the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and which we have extended to women and non-white citizens (a step too far beyond originalism for these guys), but also disregards the Biblical imperative of living in community and caring for orphans and widows and the sick and disabled. If you disagree with that very narrow comfort zone, you're a Samaritan--a foreigner. I hope enough Samaritans get out and vote that we elect a leader willing to do the hard work required to help us learn to live in community and stop destroying the planet. These people may oppose abortion, but they despise life in the form of actual people who aren't white and conservative and either male or under conservative male supervision, and they want to do everything they possibly can to make people who aren't like them so unwelcome they stop showing up at the borders or give up on living in states where they and their families have lived for generations and leave.

1 In Christ there is no east or west,
in him no south or north,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.
2 In Christ shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find;
his service is the golden cord
close-binding humankind.
3 Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be.
All children of the living God
are surely kin to me.
4 In Christ now meet both east and west;
in him meet south and north.
All Christly souls are one in him
throughout the whole wide earth.

---

We don't have unlimited resources though. Not all in need can be taken care of. So who do we take care of? Well according the liberals who want to say Trump is destroying the economy and living wages aren't enough to live on, we have plenty of American citizens who need help. We have soldiers who return from war with nothing who gave everything for our country... they need help too. So save me the "Good Samaritan" speech and trying to make conservatives out to be Satanists.

I am a Good Samaritan, and I want to take care of all people. But we can't. So let's take care of our tribe.

---

Who is "our tribe"?

---

American citizens. Those here legally and who have been here. Those who truly can't work and need to provide for their children (but not "don't want to work"). Those who have fought for our country and need help to get back into society, or who can't go back into normal work because they were injured,

This doesn't mean that I don't support immigration when done legally, but we don't have the resources to offer those who come here without jobs or housing assistance. My grandfather came here, and I have his immigration paper work. They wanted to know where he was living. Who sponsored him. What he planned to do for work. They basically wanted to make sure that he was not going to be a drain on the economy by being here. We can't do that if someone sneaks over.

---

On this forum, I don't see "your tribe" as "American citizens."

There are frequent threads about how black people have an "inferior culture."

"Libs" are discussed with such absolute loathing I wouldn't be surprised if someone advocated rounding us up and shooting us as a good reason for making sure guns that can fire lots of rounds remain widely available.

Muslims are defined as criminals. All of them. Let me state very explicitly that, at least in this day and time, Islam has spawned an unusually large number of fundamentalist sects that hate each other, consider people of any other branch of Islam and those of other religions infidels, and treat women like breeders and property rather than like people. I don't like Islam as a religion, and I'm happy to see that the ISIS remnants are confined to camps because their home countries don't want them back. But extremely fundamentalist branches of ANY religion--Mormonism (FLDS), Jews (numerous ultra-conservative sects), Catholics (want to eliminate contraception, a basic human right), Scientology (forcing people to work like slaves), various Covenant churches that ignore abuse of women and children in their congregations; Jehovah's Witnesses, etc etc. It's never just the religion; it's the leadership's interpretation of it and how that's implemented in the treatment of church members and others.

I see less explicit racism aimed at hispanics, and my guess is that's because most people posting here live in Texas, where hispanics are well-integrated into the culture.

But the only "tribe" I see people here advocating for are conservative white Republican Christians (and Mormons and others who fit the "conservative white" description.

I think we need to control entry to this country, too. But, rather than kidnapping people's kids or confining them in awful facilities and camps, why aren't we working with other countries, including Mexico, to deal with a humanitarian crisis in several countries from which people are fleeing. We are going to see more and more asylees, not fewer, as climate change creates "climate refugees," people who are flooded or droughted out of their homes. Things are either going to get uglier than they already are, or we are going to figure out how to work with other countries to deal with asylees fleeing their home countries for whatever reason. Calling them all liars isn't productive or accurate. Some may be. But they have the right to make their case.

---

"Climate refugees"??? Your stuff is nuts, but this beats it all. I'm sure glad to hear that climate change ends at our border. Whew!

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Asylum is NOT a lie.

Clearly you've never talked to a refugee or immigrant. They are literally running away from true terror.

I have come to expect just utter callousness from you. To the weak and downtrodden and less fortunate. I am constantly telling myself "this dude is a Christian, right?"

You trade in willful ignorance and outright lies about who these people are. Maybe that's how you rationalize it to yourself. I don't know. But they are lies.

These immigrants/migrants pay almost the same taxes you and I pay. They pay property taxes. Sales taxes. Most of the time they even pay payroll taxes, social security, etc through the use of a fake SS#. They're helping keep it afloat and will never see a dime of it. https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

They're less likely to commit any crime, especially violent crime.
https://reason.com/2018/05/10/undocumented-immigrants-make-us-safer/

But you don't REALLY care about the facts of those issues. You just have a weird obsession with picking on those beneath you.

We need immigrants right now. We need them so badly. Our economy will grind to a halt without them. We need more Americans. We need brave, entrepreneurial souls. And someone willing to walk thousands of miles across deserts, for the chance of being free deserves that freedom more than two fat white men arguing on a message board.

And spare me the utter lie about how you "just want to know how many citizens there are." You're full of it.

Anyone who has ever had to run a report, knows that if the report is giving you bad numbers, it's worthless. And if you're willing to submit numbers you KNOW aren't right, then you deserve to be fired.

Asking the citizenship question will result in fewer citizens AND immigrants being counted. That's a fact. Because many households are mixed status. Most, supposedly. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Would appreciate you pointing out the legal precedent you're referencing regarding the census. Not saying it doesn't exist, but would like to see it.

---

Read more of the thread. I posted the exact verbiage. Article one, section 2.

---

JCWortsman said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

So far in this thread (my second delve into the R&P board) I don't care about brown people and I am anti Muslim/lgbtq/brown people because I lean right. I see this is just like any other online discussion now. I don't think this board is for me.

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Asylum is NOT a lie.

Clearly you've never talked to a refugee or immigrant. They are literally running away from true terror.

I have come to expect just utter callousness from you. To the weak and downtrodden and less fortunate. I am constantly telling myself "this dude is a Christian, right?"

You trade in willful ignorance and outright lies about who these people are. Maybe that's how you rationalize it to yourself. I don't know. But they are lies.

These immigrants/migrants pay almost the same taxes you and I pay. They pay property taxes. Sales taxes. Most of the time they even pay payroll taxes, social security, etc through the use of a fake SS#. They're helping keep it afloat and will never see a dime of it. https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

They're less likely to commit any crime, especially violent crime.
https://reason.com/2018/05/10/undocumented-immigrants-make-us-safer/

But you don't REALLY care about the facts of those issues. You just have a weird obsession with picking on those beneath you.

We need immigrants right now. We need them so badly. Our economy will grind to a halt without them. We need more Americans. We need brave, entrepreneurial souls. And someone willing to walk thousands of miles across deserts, for the chance of being free deserves that freedom more than two fat white men arguing on a message board.

And spare me the utter lie about how you "just want to know how many citizens there are." You're full of it.

Anyone who has ever had to run a report, knows that if the report is giving you bad numbers, it's worthless. And if you're willing to submit numbers you KNOW aren't right, then you deserve to be fired.

Asking the citizenship question will result in fewer citizens AND immigrants being counted. That's a fact. Because many households are mixed status. Most, supposedly. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

Running away from true terror as a basis asylum? I don't see overweight and carrying a cell phone when illegally crossing as being neither terrified nor or a basis for asylum.

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Would appreciate you pointing out the legal precedent you're referencing regarding the census. Not saying it doesn't exist, but would like to see it.

---

Read more of the thread. I posted the exact verbiage. Article one, section 2.

---

I'm aware of the text of the constitution. What I was looking for was case law interpreting same supporting your position, because it's not clear from the plain language of the text.

To another point, the idea that being for border control is incompatible with Christ's teachings doesn't have much support.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Would appreciate you pointing out the legal precedent you're referencing regarding the census. Not saying it doesn't exist, but would like to see it.

---

Read more of the thread. I posted the exact verbiage. Article one, section 2.

---

I'm aware of the text of the constitution. What I was looking for was case law interpreting same supporting your position, because it's not clear from the plain language of the text.

To another point, the idea that being for border control is incompatible with Christ's teachings doesn't have much support.

---

It's not the border security that's the issue, it's the complete dismissal of migrants as non-persons that's incompatible with Christ's teachings.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Asylum is a lie.... because you say it is?

You wanting so desperately to believe it is doesn't make it so.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Asylum is a lie.... because you say it is?

You wanting so desperately to believe it is doesn't make it so.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Asylum is NOT a lie.

Clearly you've never talked to a refugee or immigrant. They are literally running away from true terror.

I have come to expect just utter callousness from you. To the weak and downtrodden and less fortunate. I am constantly telling myself "this dude is a Christian, right?"

You trade in willful ignorance and outright lies about who these people are. Maybe that's how you rationalize it to yourself. I don't know. But they are lies.

These immigrants/migrants pay almost the same taxes you and I pay. They pay property taxes. Sales taxes. Most of the time they even pay payroll taxes, social security, etc through the use of a fake SS#. They're helping keep it afloat and will never see a dime of it. https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

They're less likely to commit any crime, especially violent crime.
https://reason.com/2018/05/10/undocumented-immigrants-make-us-safer/

But you don't REALLY care about the facts of those issues. You just have a weird obsession with picking on those beneath you.

We need immigrants right now. We need them so badly. Our economy will grind to a halt without them. We need more Americans. We need brave, entrepreneurial souls. And someone willing to walk thousands of miles across deserts, for the chance of being free deserves that freedom more than two fat white men arguing on a message board.

And spare me the utter lie about how you "just want to know how many citizens there are." You're full of it.

Anyone who has ever had to run a report, knows that if the report is giving you bad numbers, it's worthless. And if you're willing to submit numbers you KNOW aren't right, then you deserve to be fired.

Asking the citizenship question will result in fewer citizens AND immigrants being counted. That's a fact. Because many households are mixed status. Most, supposedly. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

Running away from true terror as a basis asylum? I don't see overweight and carrying a cell phone when illegally crossing as being neither terrified nor or a basis for asylum.

---

I don't get how you can glorify your own ignorance.

What kind of motivation would YOU need to walk a thousand miles through deserts and mountains with your babies? Answer the question.

This is basic critical thinking.

What would it take for YOU to do that? You think someone would do that for anything less than desperation? I await what I'm sure will be a well thought-out response.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/563744/

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Asylum is NOT a lie.

Clearly you've never talked to a refugee or immigrant. They are literally running away from true terror.

I have come to expect just utter callousness from you. To the weak and downtrodden and less fortunate. I am constantly telling myself "this dude is a Christian, right?"

You trade in willful ignorance and outright lies about who these people are. Maybe that's how you rationalize it to yourself. I don't know. But they are lies.

These immigrants/migrants pay almost the same taxes you and I pay. They pay property taxes. Sales taxes. Most of the time they even pay payroll taxes, social security, etc through the use of a fake SS#. They're helping keep it afloat and will never see a dime of it. https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

They're less likely to commit any crime, especially violent crime.
https://reason.com/2018/05/10/undocumented-immigrants-make-us-safer/

But you don't REALLY care about the facts of those issues. You just have a weird obsession with picking on those beneath you.

We need immigrants right now. We need them so badly. Our economy will grind to a halt without them. We need more Americans. We need brave, entrepreneurial souls. And someone willing to walk thousands of miles across deserts, for the chance of being free deserves that freedom more than two fat white men arguing on a message board.

And spare me the utter lie about how you "just want to know how many citizens there are." You're full of it.

Anyone who has ever had to run a report, knows that if the report is giving you bad numbers, it's worthless. And if you're willing to submit numbers you KNOW aren't right, then you deserve to be fired.

Asking the citizenship question will result in fewer citizens AND immigrants being counted. That's a fact. Because many households are mixed status. Most, supposedly. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

Running away from true terror as a basis asylum? I don't see overweight and carrying a cell phone when illegally crossing as being neither terrified nor or a basis for asylum.

---

I don't get how you can glorify your own ignorance.

What kind of motivation would YOU need to walk a thousand miles through deserts and mountains with your babies? Answer the question.

This is basic critical thinking.

What would it take for YOU to do that? You think someone would do that for anything less than desperation? I await what I'm sure will be a well thought-out response.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/563744/

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Ah yes. It's George Soros! Thats old chestnut!

When you're an incredibly triggered conservative, but you're too lazy to come up with an actual rationalization, you just pull out George Soros.

Get out of here. Please don't expect to be taken seriously with that weak *****

Seriously. The most powerful man in the world is an incompetent huckster conman if he's being thwarted by dried out husk of George Soros.

Pathetic.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Ah yes. It's George Soros! Thats old chestnut!

When you're an incredibly triggered conservative, but you're too lazy to come up with an actual rationalization, you just pull out George Soros.

Get out of here. Please don't expect to be taken seriously with that weak *****

Seriously. The most powerful man in the world is an incompetent huckster conman if he's being thwarted by dried out husk of George Soros.

Pathetic.

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Ah yes. It's George Soros! Thats old chestnut!

When you're an incredibly triggered conservative, but you're too lazy to come up with an actual rationalization, you just pull out George Soros.

Get out of here. Please don't expect to be taken seriously with that weak *****

Seriously. The most powerful man in the world is an incompetent huckster conman if he's being thwarted by dried out husk of George Soros.

Pathetic.

---

Just because you don't like a fact doesn't make it weak. That's a typical liberal response. Fact is that Soros's Open Society Foundation directly funds and advocates illegal immigration. And I see you have zero response for my other 2 facts. Adios.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?

---

Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.

---

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.

---

Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?

---

Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:

Quote:

---

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

---

It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.

---

First, for the love of everything holy, PLEASE stop using the uber lame excuse of "asylum." It is an outright lie, everyone knows it, and it makes you and anyone else who uses it look like a complete IDIOT to any sane people trying to discuss this topic. I am embarrassed for anyone who keeps trying play this moronic card and expects anyone to take them seriously. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows that "asylum" is not why people are entering our country ILLEGALLY. Just stop. It insults us both.

People aren't streaming over our borders illegally to escape tyranny and government oppression. They're coming here to avail themselves of a booming economy, good schools, good hospitals, and all the other great things about America. There is a system in place for anyone who wants to come be a citizen of the USA. I am totally fine with any person who wants to come here and become an American, and does so in a legal fashion. I'm not ok with people sneaking in. I have NO idea why in the world you apparently are. It is mind boggling.

Second, I am fine with counting ALL people, including those who have come here illegally. The constitution says to count all people, so great, let's do it. I'd also like to know which people are citizens and which ones aren't. The constitution doesn't say we aren't allowed to know that. I have no idea why you wouldn't want to know that, other than the reason you are feigning denial of. So give me another one. Why don't you care about people coming here illegally?

---

Asylum is NOT a lie.

Clearly you've never talked to a refugee or immigrant. They are literally running away from true terror.

I have come to expect just utter callousness from you. To the weak and downtrodden and less fortunate. I am constantly telling myself "this dude is a Christian, right?"

You trade in willful ignorance and outright lies about who these people are. Maybe that's how you rationalize it to yourself. I don't know. But they are lies.

These immigrants/migrants pay almost the same taxes you and I pay. They pay property taxes. Sales taxes. Most of the time they even pay payroll taxes, social security, etc through the use of a fake SS#. They're helping keep it afloat and will never see a dime of it. https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

They're less likely to commit any crime, especially violent crime.
https://reason.com/2018/05/10/undocumented-immigrants-make-us-safer/

But you don't REALLY care about the facts of those issues. You just have a weird obsession with picking on those beneath you.

We need immigrants right now. We need them so badly. Our economy will grind to a halt without them. We need more Americans. We need brave, entrepreneurial souls. And someone willing to walk thousands of miles across deserts, for the chance of being free deserves that freedom more than two fat white men arguing on a message board.

And spare me the utter lie about how you "just want to know how many citizens there are." You're full of it.

Anyone who has ever had to run a report, knows that if the report is giving you bad numbers, it's worthless. And if you're willing to submit numbers you KNOW aren't right, then you deserve to be fired.

Asking the citizenship question will result in fewer citizens AND immigrants being counted. That's a fact. Because many households are mixed status. Most, supposedly. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

But the babies are brown, so you don't care as much.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Asylum is a lie.... because you say it is?

You wanting so desperately to believe it is doesn't make it so.

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Ah yes. It's George Soros! Thats old chestnut!

When you're an incredibly triggered conservative, but you're too lazy to come up with an actual rationalization, you just pull out George Soros.

Get out of here. Please don't expect to be taken seriously with that weak *****

Seriously. The most powerful man in the world is an incompetent huckster conman if he's being thwarted by dried out husk of George Soros.

Pathetic.

---

Just because you don't like a fact doesn't make it weak. That's a typical liberal response. Fact is that Soros's Open Society Foundation directly funds and advocates illegal immigration. And I see you have zero response for my other 2 facts. Adios.

---

They won't believe you even if you show them irrefutable proof.

---