All good suggestions it is, however, 38 and raining here which severely limits the outside options. Will probably drag them both out of the house tomorrow since the sun is supposed to be out.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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riflebear said:

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Just read nein51's post so I deleted my comment. Best of luck nein51 to your wife.

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Thanks. She will be fine. Thankfully we have been dealing with it a very long time so it's pretty easy to recognize the signs. For now the focus is just getting through one day at a time. It's the non finite end that is really killer.

nein51 said:

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All good suggestions it is, however, 38 and raining here which severely limits the outside options. Will probably drag them both out of the house tomorrow since the sun is supposed to be out.

---

NW USA? Canada? You can turn that around for Houston. Was 88 but 83 right now . Playing Corno Defense.

Cleveland. We won't see 80s for another 45-60 days.

Unbelievable. So close yet so far. I don't like heat and humidity but I couldn't exist up in that climate.

National Parks will be free to public during coronavirus pandemic

Quote:

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SALT LAKE CITY (AP) Most national parks are open as a refuge for Americans tired of being stuck at home during a pandemic, but despite now being free to visit, people may find it more difficult to enjoy them as parks close visitor centers, shuttles, lodges and restaurants to fight the spread of the coronavirus.
Parks are trying to keep up with ever-changing rules and recommendations from government officials who are urging people to avoid gathering in large groups but allowing them to get outside for fresh air and exercise as long as they keep away from others.
The National Park Service says it's adhering to the latest guidelines from the White House and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, vowing to keep outdoor spaces open while giving park superintendents the power to close or modify operations.
Interior Secretary David Bernhardt this week temporarily waived entrance fees at national parks, monuments and wildlife refuges to make it easier for people to get outdoors and "implement some social distancing."

---

https://apnews.com/318e1f71f2848d32474d557ca73c42f2

jupiter said:

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National Parks will be free to public during coronavirus pandemic

Quote:

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SALT LAKE CITY (AP) Most national parks are open as a refuge for Americans tired of being stuck at home during a pandemic, but despite now being free to visit, people may find it more difficult to enjoy them as parks close visitor centers, shuttles, lodges and restaurants to fight the spread of the coronavirus.
Parks are trying to keep up with ever-changing rules and recommendations from government officials who are urging people to avoid gathering in large groups but allowing them to get outside for fresh air and exercise as long as they keep away from others.
The National Park Service says it's adhering to the latest guidelines from the White House and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, vowing to keep outdoor spaces open while giving park superintendents the power to close or modify operations.
Interior Secretary David Bernhardt this week temporarily waived entrance fees at national parks, monuments and wildlife refuges to make it easier for people to get outdoors and "implement some social distancing."

---

https://apnews.com/318e1f71f2848d32474d557ca73c42f2

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LOL. Harris County Toll Roads are free this month in Houston too lol.

nein51 said:

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riflebear said:

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Seems inevitable to me really. If you have depression being "shut in" even if you're not really stuck is a serious problem. My wife struggles with depression. I can already see some signs I don't love.

She owns her own business and, to be honest, at some point I will probably suggest she go to work. She will be the only one there but it's out of the house and routine and she needs both of those things.

If you have friends with depression you might want to make a real effort to reach out to them regularly.

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Good advice

ATL Bear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Fewer new cases today than yesterday, and deaths due to Covid-19 declined for the third day. These are US numbers.

The following numbers are from Worldometer.

March 19: 4,530 new cases, 57 new deaths
March 20: 5,594 new cases, 49 new deaths
March 21: 4,824 new cases, 46 new deaths

---

March 22: 9,339 new cases. 117 new deaths

Sizable jump day over day. Mortality rate remains steady. Surprised at this point the testing continues to have such a high negative result (~90%).

---

March 23: 10,168 new cases. 140 new deaths.

New York makes up half of new cases and 43 of the deaths. Washington and Louisiana with 15 deaths each round out top 3 states and collectively half the fatalities.

---

March 24: 11,089 new cases. 225 new deaths.

New York still comprising ~50% of new cases and deaths.

Looks like the whole state of Florida will be NY next week based on data I saw earlier. A lot of Floridians are over 65.

And Louisiana has a big problem emerging. I understand their health care infrastructure is already stressed.

PartyBear said:

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Looks like the whole state of Florida will be NY next week based on data I saw earlier. A lot of Floridians are over 65.

And Louisiana has a big problem emerging. I understand their health care infrastructure is already stressed.

---

Many parts of the country are going to be overwhelmed within the next 8 weeks unless an existing drug is found to work against C-19.

Better stock up folks....within the next few weeks we are going to be in a war zone .

Since that last post Disney and Universal have announced they will not reopen when they had originally planned.

PartyBear said:

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Since that last post Disney and Universal have announced they will not reopen when they had originally planned.

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My daughter was at Disney World the Wednesday before it shut down. Thus far, all 6 of us have no symptoms. Scary **** though.

PartyBear said:

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Since that last post Disney and Universal have announced they will not reopen when they had originally planned.

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Have paid my penance as a father and a husband and been to both DisneyLand and Disney World. Once is enough. At least in this lifetime, anyway.

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

Canada2017 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

---

proof ?

Read that 4000 got shipped today

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

---

Ah, more hyhsteria.

The problem with medical equipment is the same one we are seeing with consumer products - the distribution system was designed for conditions different from the current situation. Yes, some of what is happening is emotional decisions rather than rational decisions, but that unfortunately includes medical professionals who disagree about priorities and of course politicians who put their own district or party ahead of the people at need.

I think it is a grave mistake to conflate different regions and situations just because you find an apparent correlation. New York is different from Italy, just as France is different from Iran, despite some similar case numbers. It's just as important to look at the successes and consider why they avoided the fate of other places. Why, for example, did Washington State, which was the first US state hit with the virus, see a stop in new deaths from COVID-19 after the initial flood? Why has Ohio fared better than Illinois?

Let's look at ALL the evidence and seek answers that do better than make for emotional arguments.

PayPal is helping raise money for Covid19 services and waiving their fees on donations.

I chose Direct Relief for their current focus on getting PPE to medical providers.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

---

proof ?

Read that 4000 got shipped today

---

Proof - follow the trajectory in NY to Italy. They essentially overlay.

What about the remaining 16,000 that they did not ship. NY needs 30,000.

Trump could have/ should have already released the remaining 16,000 ventilators to NY, and ordered the production and purchase, through the Defense Production Act, enough ventilators for NY and the other coming hot spots around the country where they will be needed to prevent deaths. Time is of the essence. It takes time to deliver and get them in place, and more so to produce them. Does anyone really believe Cuomo is pleading for help disingenuously or is overreacting?

NY needs 40,000 I thought. I can almost guarantee you this has to do with the N.Y. AG investigation. Trump even said yesterday the WH needs to be treated more nicely by NY. That was likely his signal similar to the Ukraine leader.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

---

proof ?

Read that 4000 got shipped today

---

Proof - follow the trajectory in NY to Italy. They essentially overlay.

What about the remaining 16,000 that they did not ship. NY needs 30,000.

Trump could have/ should have already released the remaining 16,000 ventilators to NY, and ordered the production and purchase, through the Defense Production Act, enough ventilators for NY and the other coming hot spots around the country where they will be needed to prevent deaths. Time is of the essence. It takes time to deliver and get them in place, and more so to produce them. Does anyone really believe Cuomo is pleading for help disingenuously or is overreacting?

---

Cuomo had the opportunity to buy more ventilators for his state years ago and chose not to.

Is this his 'fault' ...of course not. How in the world could Cuomo know this nightmare would happen on his shift ?

NO ONE can buy or build 'yesterday'. All local, state and federal agencies are doing what they can.

Even the fat, orange haired man in the White House you so clearly hate.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the "hysteria" from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

What are the signs you notice that help you know "hysteria?"

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the hysteria from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

We're going to get the first taste of this in NY. Right now NY is on track with Italy. Unless they get enough ventilators, many people are going to die unnecessarily. The sad thing is, ventilators are being withheld for personal pettiness.

---

Ah, more hyhsteria.

The problem with medical equipment is the same one we are seeing with consumer products - the distribution system was designed for conditions different from the current situation. Yes, some of what is happening is emotional decisions rather than rational decisions, but that unfortunately includes medical professionals who disagree about priorities and of course politicians who put their own district or party ahead of the people at need.

I think it is a grave mistake to conflate different regions and situations just because you find an apparent correlation. New York is different from Italy, just as France is different from Iran, despite some similar case numbers. It's just as important to look at the successes and consider why they avoided the fate of other places. Why, for example, did Washington State, which was the first US state hit with the virus, see a stop in new deaths from COVID-19 after the initial flood? Why has Ohio fared better than Illinois?

Let's look at ALL the evidence and seek answers that do better than make for emotional arguments.

---

Do you really believe that Gov. Cuomo is incorrectly comparing where NY is now to Italy is a mistake? He says they are using projection models. He does say the hospitalization rate has slowed. He has the staff and resources and evidence available to know if those comparisons and projections are erroneous. There are reasons, as of yet, that Washington state has not overwhelmed their medical and ventilator capacity. Cuomo says personally, he believes because they have a lot of international travelers, and their population density is greater NY has the 15 times the case load as other areas such as California.

NY has enough data and information to know, on the current trend, they soon (21days) will exceed their capacity, just like Italy, and they will be in the same position as Italy. NY health care workers will be making arbitrary decisions as to who lives and who dies for lack of ventilators (analogous to ad hoc death panels). Cuomo says that scenario will be unnecessary, if Trump timely steps up.

Quote:

---

Let's look at ALL the evidence and seek answers that do better than make for emotional arguments.

---

Cuomo already has ALL the evidence he needs to make his argument. Cuomo has laid it out and produced it in abundant and clear detail, making cogent and convincing arguments for NY's needs. He has been doing this for weeks and days. Trump/Pence have not made any case for their slow response in implementing the DPA, nor for their token limited response to the request for ventilators. The Trump/Pence ad hoc response is going to end in unnecessary deaths if the trend pans out. Why take that risk?

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"war zone"? Dang, and Costco is all out of 75mm artillery shells ...

---

How many Americans have to die before you finally get it ?

3,000

30,000

300,000

Unless a workable drug is found and a vaccine developed......this virus has the potential to kill far more people than any pandemic in the last 30 years.

---

No more caffeine for you, then.

I take the virus seriously, but utterly reject the "hysteria" from people who cannot see anything but worst-case projections based on driving fear, not solutions.

---

What are the signs you notice that help you know "hysteria?"

---

In any crisis, experts offer a variety of possible outcomes. These often take form in 'best case', 'worst case', and 'most likely' scenarios. When someone only offers a worst-case scenarios, and ignores good news to do so, it's reasonable to conclude they are speaking out of emotion, specifically hysteria.

Cuomo already claimed COVID-19 first showed up in New York. That is not true, as we know the first US cases appeared in Washington, on the West coast. Cuomo has made a number of other incorrect claims, which I don't jump on him for since he is under a great deal of stress.

That does not mean we should take his statements as gospel.

New York has very different demographics, resources, geography, weather and challenges from Italy. It's silly to pretend otherwise.

Nothing is approaching Italy's mortality rate, or Spain for that matter. That is the critical measure.

The interesting thing is there are ventilators and unused hospital beds all over the country. Question is how do you export the sick without impacting the local communities?

ATL Bear said:

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Nothing is approaching Italy's mortality rate, or Spain for that matter. That is the critical measure.

---

Until the hospitals are overwhelmed in a local community ..then the death rate will go up.

Americans don't have any special immunity to the effects of this virus.

All comes down to how quickly the government and private sector can ramp up supplies and get them delivered were needed.

Done with this for now. Its a gorgeous day here. Packing a lunch and going to a state natural area with my wife.

PartyBear said:

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NY needs 40,000 I thought. I can almost guarantee you this has to do with the N.Y. AG investigation. Trump even said yesterday the WH needs to be treated more nicely by NY. That was likely his signal similar to the Ukraine leader.

---

That is completely delusional. You understand that, right?

Canada2017 said:

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Done with this for now. Its a gorgeous day here. Packing a lunch and going to a state natural area with my wife.

---

To talk about 'overwhelming hospitals' and horrific death rates, I'm sure.

I found an interesting examination about why the number of cases in each state varies according to whom you ask, and a comparison of confirmed cases to people tested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/24/coronavirus-cases-in-texas-why-the-numbers-are-different-everywhere/

Information can be your friend.